Though not without their own local culpability, western powers, in particular the United States, deserve much of the blame for the current developments in Iraq. One could go all the way back to British colonization of Iraq to draw lines right up until today. Another could even point out that the CIA helped the Bath party into power in 1967, including providing lists of people to be executed. But let us focus on the 1980s to the present, when US support for Iraqi atrocities set the stage for the ensuing events that have left Iraq a battered and war torn nation.
As is well known, Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 in what they perceived would be a quick and easy victory. By 1982, Iranian counter attacks had destroyed this myth, making it clear that it would be along and drawn out war.
Fearing Iranian victory, the United States stepped up policies, “already well underway” to improve relations with the Sadaam. In February of 1982, the United States removed Iraq from its list of states sponsoring international terrorism. In fact, this move was done prior to Iran going on the offensive, indicating that fears of Iranian victory were certainly not the sole cause US support.
In 1983, Iran began reporting the use of chemical and biological weapons by Sadaam’s forces. According to documents in the national security archive, “The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran's accusations, and describing Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war.“ The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against "Kurdish insurgents" as well.”
The United States responded to Sadaam’s war crimes by officially resuming relations with Iraq in 1984, even though they had already been providing intelligence for at least two years. High level meetings in the Reagan administration continued to advocate for stronger relations with Sadaam and made no mention of chemical and biological weapons use. Being as the weapons were directed against Iranians and Kurds, they were of no concern to Washington.
Donald Rumsfeld made two visits to Baghdad in 6 months between December of 1983 and May of 1984. On the first visit Rumsfeld expressed the US’s close relationship with Iraq and Regan’s willingness to do more to counter the Iranian threat. Sadaam’s foreign minister had “gone out of his way to praise Rumsfeld as a person" and express his “extreme pleasure” with the meeting.
In February of 1984 Iraq announced, "the invaders (Iran) should know that for every harmful insect there is an insecticide capable of annihilating it whatever the number and Iraq possesses this annihilation insecticide.”
Under mounting international pressure the US did publicly condemn Iraqi chemical weapons attacks while continuing privately to maintain and expand diplomacy between the two nations. However such public condemnations were for public consumption. After warning Iraq that a condemnation was coming, Iraq’s foreign minister informed Washington “that Iraq strongly preferred a Security Council presidential statement to a resolution, and wanted the response to refer to former resolutions on the war, progress toward ending the conflict, but to not identify any specific country as responsible for chemical weapons use.” Deputy assistant James Placke responded that he would do all he could do but that the US did “not want this issue to dominate our bilateral relationship." No reason to let chemical weapons and war crimes get in the way of a budding friendship.
When the resolution condemning chemical and biological weapons was finally issued, the state department noted that, “The statement, by the way, contains all three elements” that Iraq wanted. According to a review of internal documents by the national security archive, indisputably in the government’s own words, “The Iraqi government's repressive internal policies, though well known to the U.S. government at the time, did not figure at all in the presidential directives that established U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The U.S. was concerned with its ability to project military force in the Middle East, and to keep the oil flowing.” Obvious to anyone not indoctrinated by western propaganda.
But US support for Sadaam was not just about the Iran-Iraq war. In fact, it continued well beyond it, right up to the day Sadaam invaded Kuwait. On October 2 1989, President Bush issued National Security directive 26. In it, he outlines plans to reinvigorate America’s relationship with Iraq. It writes that a normal relationship with Iraq will promote “stability in both the gulf in the Middle east.” Stability meaning under US control. It goes on that “we should pursue and facilitate opportunities for US firms to participate in their reconstruction of the Iraq economy, particularly in the energy area, where they do not conflict” with other “significant objectives.” The first sentence of the document makes the ultimate aim of such policies clear: “Access to Persian gulf oil and the security of key friendly states in the area are vital to US national security.” It should be noted, that Arab friends in the region, refer to brutal dictators, many still in power today (or their successors) and remain close allies with the United States. Bush advocated that the United States develop a long term military agreement with Saudi Arabia and generally that US must sell “military equipment to help friendly regional states.” Again friendly to the US, but fierce enemies to their own populations whom they repress and bludgeon whenever they dare to speak up, a strain continuing right to today. Worries about domestic opposition in the United States to weapons sales to tyrants were a concern. Anticipating “controversial sales” Bush tasked his administration with “outlining actions” in order to obtain “congressional and domestic support for such sales.” In short, “we will” concoct, as they did, some scare tactic.
Apart from Presidential plans, the directive was carried out with shocking consistency. “Four weeks later, Secretary of State James A. Baker III pressed the secretary of agriculture to approve new agricultural loan guarantees totaling a billion dollars for Iraq. “ According to the Presidential Studies quarterly, “Meanwhile, an interagency committee of the Washington government, prodded by the State Department, approved export licenses for the shipment to Iraq of such high-tech items as computers, machine tools, and optical heads for cameras. The items ostensibly were to be used for civilian purposes. Most were shipped to military installations.” Again in 1990,” President Bush, signed an executive order certifying that to terminate loan guarantees to the Baghdad government(over human rights concerns) would not be "in the national interest of the United States" - and thereby waived congressional restrictions on use of the Export-Import Bank by Saddam's government. During a meeting with Saddam in Baghdad on February 12, acting Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs John H. Kelly told the Iraqi dictator that he, Saddam, was a "force for moderation in the region, and the United States wishes to broaden her relations with Iraq.” These actions were despite reports that loan funds were being misused and increasing reports of deteriorating human rights in Iraq. In early 1990, Bush sent a number of delegates to calm Sadaam down and assure him of continued US support despite reports of outrage in the western media over his human rights abuses.
On April 12, 1990, a bi-partisan senate delegation led by then senator Bob Dole and representing US agricultural states, met with Sadaam to assure him of continued US support. Alan Simpson, one of the senators, expressed to Sadaam that his problem lay not in “Washington” but with the “pampered” western press. He said to Sadaam, “that the press is spoiled and conceded” and that “democracy is very irksome.” Simpson expressed how unpopular his visit to Iraq was because of Human rights abuses but that President Bush had told him personally that he would defend his visit. Simpson told Sadaam “my advice is for you to let those bastards (the press) to come to Iraq and see things for themselves.” Simpson told Sadaam that the press “never wants to see anything succeed” and that they “eat each other.” But Simpson wasn’t all mad. He let Sadaam know that he “enjoyed meeting with frank and direct people.” How touching.
US ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, echoed this frustration with the American press in a meeting with Sadaam on July 25th, 1990, just before the invasion of Kuwait. She “consoled” Sadaam over a report by Diane Sawyer on Sadaam's internal repression and gassing of the Kurds. She called Sawyer’s profile “cheap and unjust” and notes that President Bush’s job would be much easier if “he had control over the US media.” The pentagon even leaked misinformation claiming that the Halabja massacres, the poisoning of Kurds with gas by Sadaam, might have been accidental. Months later the Pentagon cited the attacks as reasons the US must defend Kuwait against Iraq, themselves (Kuwait) a small ruling elite of corrupt dictators. According to the Washington post, “In 1988, Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ordered chemical weapons attacks against Kurdish resistance forces, but the relationship with Iraq at the time was deemed too important to rupture over the matter.” Thus, we must support chemical weapons attacks against Kurds for “stability” in the region. No doubt, Orwell would get a laugh out of that.
Of course chemical and biological weapons were delivered to Sadaam from the United States. As the Washington post reported in December of 2002, “The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.” The administration in an effort to “boost exports” continued to send Iraq such weapons as well as using third parties to send more conventional military materials. According to the post, “A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee turned up dozens of biological agents shipped to Iraq during the mid-'80s under license from the Commerce Department, including various strains of anthrax, subsequently identified by the Pentagon as a key component of the Iraqi biological warfare program. The Commerce Department also approved the export of insecticides to Iraq, despite widespread suspicions that they were being used for chemical warfare.” After the gassing of the Kurds and Sadaam’s “scorched earth policy” of villages, Dow chemical with US authorization sent chemical weapons to Iraq that could be used to cause “asphyxiation.” That the US cited these abuses as pretexts for the invasion of Iraq in 2003 is not only offensive to people with coherent thought processes, but is also a profound disservice to their victims. That the US was complicit in these and other crimes is a fact, made indisputable from the documentary record. There are many an American policy maker, a number of which were in the George W Bush’s administration, which deserved to stand on trial right next to Sadaam. At least if we are to abide by elementary moral standards and not relegate ourselves to complete hypocrites. The 2003 invasion killed, by some estimates, as much as 100,000 Iraqi civilians. The use of uranium tipped tank shells by US armed forces(a chemical weapon) has caused birth defects and cancer rates in Iraq higher than that in Hiroshima. Arms growing out of people’s heads, for example. Though General Wesley Clark may tell us that the American military “ don’t do body counts,” we can assure him that some do. A fact no doubt frustrating to a government body who openly admits their disinterest in determining the amount of Iraqi deaths they caused, in a country they were supposedly liberating. The logic is comical, the results not so much.
By the late 1980s and early 1990s no pretext of Soviet meddling could reasonably be used to justify support for the “beast of Baghdad.” Human rights concerns in Iraq, as the documents show, were limited only to public relations problems for supporting the tyrant. In today’s Middle East, the US support for dictators continues undisturbed. Sisi, the dictator of Egypt, has already killed over 1000 people in his short time in power and has imprisoned over 16000. An additional 800 have been put to death in a trial that lasted five minutes. The US has recently confirmed its security partnership, despite these and other horrid abuses, with Egypt after a recent visit by John Kerry. Kerry assured Sisi that the US will send the rest of this year’s military supplies, including apache helicopters. US made helicopters were used by Mubarak to brutally crush peacefully dissent demanding democracy. Mubarak, a horrific dictator and ally of the United States for 30 years was praised by President Obama in 2009. Obama sided with him during the Arab spring in Egypt till the very end, when his hold on power was no longer possible. Now the US has found a new dictator in the region to support but with a different name, making such support less embarrassing. In fact, Obama refused to label Sisi’s take on power a coup, though it clearly was, to subvert US law restricting military aid to coup leaders. It seems either the United States hasn’t learned its lesson in supporting dictators, or perhaps worse, doesn’t seem to care.
But it is not just Egypt. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain, etc, etc, are all ruled by brutal dictatorships that all happen to receive large military and diplomatic aid from the US. Saudi Arabia, invaded Bahrain in 2011 to help quash democratic youth protesters in that small nation. Bahrain, home to a US military base of the 5th fleet, had found a group of progressive minded secular protesters daring to demand democracy. In Pearl Square, the heart of the pro-democratic movement there, Saudi troops helped destroy any hopes for achieving freedom, by ruthlessly(and with US backed arms and anti-riot equipment) murdering demonstrators. Plans for democratic protests in Saudi Arabia itself were aborted when the Saudi government made clear that any protests would be liquidated immediately. According to the Saudi government, “The Ministry of Interior will deal with any mercenary or misled person by force and will strike with an iron fist whoever wishes to do so.” That put an end to that. In Yemen, the US is supporting another brutal dictator after supporting the dictator Saleh for decades. This support and the subsequent repression has spawned new terrorist networks devoted to overthrowing both the Yemeni government and attacking the US homeland. One could go on and on with documenting examples in the Middle East of such US support for horrible dictators in the region, but it would be agonizingly redundant to the reader.
That US support for dictators in the region is the prime cause of terror directed towards the United States is not seriously challenged. All of scholarship and intelligence agencies around the world confirm this with shocking consistency. In 2003, the US defense science board task force, directed by Bush to look into the matter, concluded that people in the Middle East hate the United States government polices and not the American people. They continued that the US was seen as the “prop and longstanding ally” of corrupt governments that block democracy and development. This was re-confirmed by Jason Burke in his study of Al-Qaeda where he argued the same. He added terrorists use American violence as useful recruitment tools to gain new members to their cause. He wrote, “That every use of force is a victory for Bin laden.” Of course, if we want more evidence of this, we can listen to people like Bin Laden himself, who constantly cited the West’s support for corrupt regimes as his prime motivation. That terrorists couch these struggles in religious terms is neither novel or surprising. Aside from the fact that America does to (god bless America), it is a clear fact that the aforementioned American policy in the region push the disenfranchised to the terrorist cause. In any case, there is a reason they target us, and other western collaborators(Franc, England, etc,) and not, say, Brazil.
It is difficult to ascertain what a democratic Arab country might look like should America ever change its longstanding policy of forbidding them in the region. There was one, namely Iran in 1953. But their short experiment with democracy was ended by a CIA-British coup that overturned the secular democratic leader in favor of the brutal Shah who went on to repress the country for 25 years because the prime minister had the gall to nationalize half of Iranian oil. How dare Iran break the shackles of imperial control and hav the gall to use their own resources for themselves. The Shah’s repression, and the US support for it, laid the basis for the current Iranian regime, monsters in their own right.
ISIS is a brutal organization that any sane person would want eliminated. But let us be honest about our role. Iraqi and former Bush Administration one speech translator recently said in an interview with Bill Moyers:
“Obviously, there are theological differences as well as political and social differences. But the fact is that Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites managed to live in the same country for a long time without killing each other, and they lived in the same neighborhoods. They intermarried — I am half Sunni and half Shiite. I am one of many Iraqis who was born into these mixed marriages. The US destroyed that Iraqi national identity and replaced it with sectarian and ethnic identities after 2003.Sect wasn’t really a part of the national consciousness. I was born in Iraq and I’d never in my life been asked if I was a Sunni or a Shiite. And I didn’t know who among my relatives or neighbors or co-workers or colleagues at school were Sunnis or Shiites, because it wasn’t an issue. It’s not that people were tolerant toward each other — they weren’t aware of sectarian backgrounds. It’s similar to some areas in the US where you don’t necessarily know what Christian sect your friends belong to. You might know, or you might not know.That was before the US intervention. The US destroyed that Iraqi national identity and replaced it with sectarian and ethnic identities after 2003. I don’t think this is something that many Iraqis argue about, because you can trace the beginning of this sectarian strife that is destroying the country, and it clearly began with the US invasion and occupation.That’s not to say that Iraqis don’t have agency over their own country and lives – they could and should have worked on bridging the gaps. But it’s not easy to fix these huge political and religious differences when the situation is as complicated as Iraq — and when the US is funding and training one side of this conflict with tens of billions of dollars, it’s not easy to reach a point of national healing, where Iraqis work together and live in peace.”
As a nation and as humans we have a stark choice. We can revel in noble proclamations of “American exceptionalism” in the face of an evil world and be struck with awe about our government’s unprecedented nobility. Or we can be honest with ourselves. The grand fact of the matter is that the United States has treated the Middle East as an imperial playground. Human rights of those in the region are not only ignored, but their violations are actively supported by the United States. We have blocked democracy; throwing away the golden gift presented to us by the Arab spring, and preferred brutal monsters to do our bidding over the democratic will of those in the region. This policy is quite beneficial to the narrow sectors of American domestic power that profit off of them. It is obvious that actual democratic policy in the Middle East would be stoutly against American imperial planning. But, for the majority of Americans and those in the Middle East, blocking democracy in the region as a matter of principle is a dangerous and cruel policy that lead to 9/11, the current predicaments in the Middle East, and perhaps the end of any pretense that we still possess our dearly held values. No doubt there are many Americans who will prefer to argue within narrow dogmatic partisan boxes, while our self-appointed betters and mentors continue to engage in a bi-partisan policy of repression and violence. For those actually concerned with America and its well being, we should work to impose on our leaders principles that are consistent with American values and the beauty of the American people. When that battle is won, it will be the first accomplishment to ending terror both here and abroad. If we choose not to fight it it, then any of our leaders, democratic or republican, will continue murder innocents around the world with our money, in our name and at our expense.
I think if you read you will honestly find it interesting.
Not my area if expertise my any stretch, but I'm not clueless either.
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Thats like saying cause there was slavery that whites and blacks cant repair relations now.
I dont doubt there is some truth to what you said. But in reality, US policy has inflamed these divisions. According to an actual Iraqi, they didnt exist prior to the invasion as evidenced by the frequent intermarriage between the two.
Divisions or not, the US should stop its policy of fervent support for monsters in the region, of which Maliki, is a new example.
And for sure, there was never an issue in the ME before the US was involved. FACT!!!!!
Civilizations have always been power hungry. But when those who are power hungry are soulless, psychotic militants who hide behind and completely twist a religion that allows them to oppress their own people, keep them illiterate and poor, and do anything under the sun "in the name of Allah" and with no concern for the lives of those who do their bidding because of a view of what the afterlife will bring them when they "martyr" themselves.
You can try and pin a power vacuum on the US or the Brits, but the reason for the savagery is because those fighting are savages.
Not my area if expertise my any stretch, but I'm not clueless either.
Does everyone of your posts have to have the "Murica crap in it...we get it you're intellectually superior...
And for sure, there was never an issue in the ME before the US was involved. FACT!!!!!
Who ever said there weren't issues before the us was involved? I didnt. There was no terrorism directed at the us before we were involved. That's why now they don't attack brazil, for example,; but us.
Is your premise that since there were issues before the us was involved that justifies supporting tyrants?
That's a horrible argument. There were issues in Africa before slavery. Does that justify it?
An honest person worries about what their government does and doesn't seek to justify it's crimes by pointing out that others Comitte crimes to. That's akin to getting picked up on murder and proclaiming innocence by saying other people Comitt murders to.
As for your bush comment this is not a partisan issue but encompasses presidents from left and right for decades.
I also suggest you read the first sentence.
Civilizations have always been power hungry. But when those who are power hungry are soulless, psychotic militants who hide behind and completely twist a religion that allows them to oppress their own people, keep them illiterate and poor, and do anything under the sun "in the name of Allah" and with no concern for the lives of those who do their bidding because of a view of what the afterlife will bring them when they "martyr" themselves.
You can try and pin a power vacuum on the US or the Brits, but the reason for the savagery is because those fighting are savages.
Those aren't my conclusions they are the conclusions of the cia, mossad, us government and all of scholoarship. If you want to disagree with all of them that's your buisness.
But yeah us imposing dictators on them is irrelevant to what's happening there.
It might be comforting to you to call them savages and revert to racism and ignorance. Such arguments are not without precedent. In fact was a nazi argument to justify their crimes.
It might feel nice to ignore the colonialism and us imposed client regimes. But comfort isn't reality.
Savages who suddenly are able to live in America peacefully when they are taken out of a war zone. Good logic bud.
But yes the fact that we have created higher radiation then in hiroshima from using chemical weapon tank shells is justified because other powers in history were monsters too.
I find your paragraph little more then being an apologetic for us crimes and devoid of any grounded fact.
Call them savages if that's all you can do. But young college kids fighting for democracy and crushed by us backed violence aren't savages. The people crushing them and their suppliers, us, and apologetics like you, seem to me to be the savages.
silly as that is, there have been elected regimes broadly in history that have done great evil, that the US fought against at great cost in lives. (in europe, 1930's 40's duh)
I would say that the Egypt example probably speaks more about the incompetence of Egyptian Moderates in the face of a then organized ''brotherhood'', and that the decision to oust them was an Egyptian one widely supported by the people after the 'brothers' facade was exposed.
Parcells disciple has a narrow frame to sort through the facts and dates with.
He could start with questioning the crockery of his cultural relativism
tha'ts classic, mixing up the eras and trying to apply current thinking to the past.
and blaming that specific part of history for the lack of civil society build up in certain parts of the world, which shows lack of depth of study.
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US deserves much of the blame?
Civilizations have always been power hungry. But when those who are power hungry are soulless, psychotic militants who hide behind and completely twist a religion that allows them to oppress their own people, keep them illiterate and poor, and do anything under the sun "in the name of Allah" and with no concern for the lives of those who do their bidding because of a view of what the afterlife will bring them when they "martyr" themselves.
You can try and pin a power vacuum on the US or the Brits, but the reason for the savagery is because those fighting are savages.
Those aren't my conclusions they are the conclusions of the cia, mossad, us government and all of scholoarship. If you want to disagree with all of them that's your buisness.
But yeah us imposing dictators on them is irrelevant to what's happening there.
It might be comforting to you to call them savages and revert to racism and ignorance. Such arguments are not without precedent. In fact was a nazi argument to justify their crimes.
It might feel nice to ignore the colonialism and us imposed client regimes. But comfort isn't reality.
Savages who suddenly are able to live in America peacefully when they are taken out of a war zone. Good logic bud.
But yes the fact that we have created higher radiation then in hiroshima from using chemical weapon tank shells is justified because other powers in history were monsters too.
I find your paragraph little more then being an apologetic for us crimes and devoid of any grounded fact.
Call them savages if that's all you can do. But young college kids fighting for democracy and crushed by us backed violence aren't savages. The people crushing them and their suppliers, us, and apologetics like you, seem to me to be the savages.
I am not calling the people of these regions savages. I am calling the militants who want power in the vein of an Islamic State savages.
Pick a miltiant group, any militant group. Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Harum, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaida. They all want power and they all seek power through their Islamic fundamentalism-- the same fundamentalism that calls for the extermination of entire peoples, spends no money to educate their people, oppresses their women, teaches their children to blow themselves up (when they aren't being raped and then "honor killed" or abducted en masse).
But it's all okay, because if they die in the name of Allah, they will go to paradise.
This isn't about what the US has done. It's about what the fundamentalists believe, what they want, and what they are willing to do to get it.
There is no ignorance on my part, only on the part of a people who live in a time that doesn't align with modern ideals, equality, or enlightenment.
My heart breaks for the innocent children caught up and/or brainwashed by the insanity.
10 Reasons Fracking Improves American Lives
POSTED ON OCTOBER 5, 2012 · POSTED IN CEO CORNER
Drilling INfo .com
''There is no shortage of misinformation about fracking floating around America today. Between Josh Fox’s continued twisting of the facts and the endless stream of celebrities taking up the anti-frack platform, Americans are deluged with a steady drum beat of so-called “experts” supposedly laying bare the “dirty secrets” of our industry.
Knowing that, it would be easy to jump on my soap box and produce an encyclopedia of content debunking their every backwards assertion. But, since most of us are too busy creating prosperity and adding to America’s GDP to read an encyclopedia, I’ll instead quickly share 10 overwhelmingly positive benefits fracking has brought to America.
The price of oil is 20% lower than what it would be otherwise. The current spread on the Brent-WTI historical curve bares this out.
Natural gas prices in America have plummeted over the last 5 years. As a result, natural gas is at least 80% cheaper here than the rest of the world ‒ and in some cases, it’s as much as 620% cheaper!
Low gas prices have led to America’s first new industrial build in 40 years. For the first time in many people’s lives, our manufacturing sector is growing.
American energy independence is possible for the first time in history.
By reducing our dependence on foreign oil, we won’t have to send untold amounts of money to governments who don’t have our best interests in mind, particularly those in the Middle East.
We have reduced our CO2 contribution over 200 kilotons per day and overall CO2 emissions 1.7% with no economic kneecapping. Our greenhouse gas emissions are at their lowest rate in 20 years. This compared to Kyoto signatories whose emissions will rise between 0.5 and 3% this year, even after subsidizing efforts to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.
We have unlocked a vast energy resource while remaining environmentally responsible. The earthquakes allegedly caused by fracking have been shown to be so small, as to be inconsequential. And, there is no reputable evidence it pollutes aquifers any more than historical drilling activity.
Thanks to fracking, Oil & Gas is perhaps the only robust industry that is hiring at every level. We offer high paying jobs and pay far more of our income as taxes and fees than virtually any other industry.
Every year, drilling leases bring multibillion dollar transfer payments to rural and agricultural communities across America.
Thankfully, world technology leadership is finally being applied to something other than posting pictures of what you had for dinner.
Just thought you might want to have facts, instead of an encyclopedic diatribe.''
silly as that is, there have been elected regimes broadly in history that have done great evil, that the US fought against at great cost in lives. (in europe, 1930's 40's duh)
I would say that the Egypt example probably speaks more about the incompetence of Egyptian Moderates in the face of a then organized ''brotherhood'', and that the decision to oust them was an Egyptian one widely supported by the people after the 'brothers' facade was exposed.
Parcells disciple has a narrow frame to sort through the facts and dates with.
He could start with questioning the crockery of his cultural relativism
This has nothing to do with cultural relativism. I'm not advocating imposing democracy. I'm advocating stopping the supply of monsters who murder peaceful protesters, Rob their country, etc.
StaLin fought some bad regimes in the 40 too. Does that justify his rampaging after?
What you said about morsi is half true. What does that have to do with supporting sisi who has killed over 1000 and imprisoned over 20000 including western journalists and banned peaceful protest. Nobody accused morsi of that and sisi is more unpopular.
An there not my words. I'm quoting the declassified record.
further your reading if ww2 is false. The us could have bombed railroads taking Jews to gas chambers but didn't cause it had nothing to do with their war aims.
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In comment 11779274 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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US deserves much of the blame?
Civilizations have always been power hungry. But when those who are power hungry are soulless, psychotic militants who hide behind and completely twist a religion that allows them to oppress their own people, keep them illiterate and poor, and do anything under the sun "in the name of Allah" and with no concern for the lives of those who do their bidding because of a view of what the afterlife will bring them when they "martyr" themselves.
You can try and pin a power vacuum on the US or the Brits, but the reason for the savagery is because those fighting are savages.
Those aren't my conclusions they are the conclusions of the cia, mossad, us government and all of scholoarship. If you want to disagree with all of them that's your buisness.
But yeah us imposing dictators on them is irrelevant to what's happening there.
It might be comforting to you to call them savages and revert to racism and ignorance. Such arguments are not without precedent. In fact was a nazi argument to justify their crimes.
It might feel nice to ignore the colonialism and us imposed client regimes. But comfort isn't reality.
Savages who suddenly are able to live in America peacefully when they are taken out of a war zone. Good logic bud.
But yes the fact that we have created higher radiation then in hiroshima from using chemical weapon tank shells is justified because other powers in history were monsters too.
I find your paragraph little more then being an apologetic for us crimes and devoid of any grounded fact.
Call them savages if that's all you can do. But young college kids fighting for democracy and crushed by us backed violence aren't savages. The people crushing them and their suppliers, us, and apologetics like you, seem to me to be the savages.
I am not calling the people of these regions savages. I am calling the militants who want power in the vein of an Islamic State savages.
Pick a miltiant group, any militant group. Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Harum, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaida. They all want power and they all seek power through their Islamic fundamentalism-- the same fundamentalism that calls for the extermination of entire peoples, spends no money to educate their people, oppresses their women, teaches their children to blow themselves up (when they aren't being raped and then "honor killed" or abducted en masse).
But it's all okay, because if they die in the name of Allah, they will go to paradise.
This isn't about what the US has done. It's about what the fundamentalists believe, what they want, and what they are willing to do to get it.
There is no ignorance on my part, only on the part of a people who live in a time that doesn't align with modern ideals, equality, or enlightenment.
My heart breaks for the innocent children caught up and/or brainwashed by the insanity.
The militants you described are savages. Ad are the regimes we support of which they are reaction. Again according to our own government and virtually all research us supporting and installing dictators causes terrorism. I take their word over your musings.
You should also feel sad for the far more numerals victims of our crimes instead of justifying them by pointing out other crimes.
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I also suggest you read the first sentence.
Dude, I read through most of it. It was easy to skim through and pick out the key words. And I don't have an argument or a premise. Except that you are full of it.
My point is to stop supporting the dictators who repress their own people.
Justifying sending hussein the bubonic plague is ridicolous.
Urging Sadaam to invade Iran and supporting him throughout isn't pushing for peace. Not is supporting monsters who murder their own people and robbing them blind.
Furthermore planners are clear they want to control oil not keep it flowing. The same pattern is true in our own hemisphere. It's exploitation not security according to the declassified record. It harms our security.
That terror results is overwhelming supported.
or, as if there was a ready supply of -electable- leaders over there who truly understand and believe in:
minority and individual rights, pluralism, due process, solid institutions and a measure of meritocracy in addition to just 'the vote' as necessary parts of a process.
there is not such a supply.
you want to talk about getting weapons out of the ME? great, and good luck. the global prevalence of technology sort of precludes that, sadly.
chris r : 7/23/2014 10:59 pm : link : reply
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hi simmo
chris r : 7/23/2014 10:59 pm : link : reply
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For all the shit we've given radar (deservedly), he came through like a pro on this one.
Offline simo5656
Jr. Member
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Banned!
Posts: 64
I love Conservative Political Forum!
or, as if there was a ready supply of -electable- leaders over there who truly understand and believe in:
minority and individual rights, pluralism, due process, solid institutions and a measure of meritocracy in addition to just 'the vote' as necessary parts of a process.
there is not such a supply.
you want to talk about getting weapons out of the ME? great, and good luck. the global prevalence of technology sort of precludes that, sadly.
Good post. But I don't think we can make them disapear. But we can stop supplying them as we are the overwhelming supplier. Figuring out democracy is there job and your quite right it is a lot more then just having an election. Here and there. But supporting tyrants who murder innocent people enhances terror, a risk our leaders are willing to tak, to control the region. Their words not mine.
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radar?
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hi simmo
chris r : 7/23/2014 10:59 pm : link : reply
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For all the shit we've given radar (deservedly), he came through like a pro on this one.
Totally agree, wuphat.
For once, put down the pitchfork and torch, Wuphat. That was a great callout.
10 Reasons Fracking Improves American Lives
POSTED ON OCTOBER 5, 2012 · POSTED IN CEO CORNER
Drilling INfo .com
''There is no shortage of misinformation about fracking floating around America today. Between Josh Fox’s continued twisting of the facts and the endless stream of celebrities taking up the anti-frack platform, Americans are deluged with a steady drum beat of so-called “experts” supposedly laying bare the “dirty secrets” of our industry.
Knowing that, it would be easy to jump on my soap box and produce an encyclopedia of content debunking their every backwards assertion. But, since most of us are too busy creating prosperity and adding to America’s GDP to read an encyclopedia, I’ll instead quickly share 10 overwhelmingly positive benefits fracking has brought to America.
The price of oil is 20% lower than what it would be otherwise. The current spread on the Brent-WTI historical curve bares this out.
Natural gas prices in America have plummeted over the last 5 years. As a result, natural gas is at least 80% cheaper here than the rest of the world ‒ and in some cases, it’s as much as 620% cheaper!
Low gas prices have led to America’s first new industrial build in 40 years. For the first time in many people’s lives, our manufacturing sector is growing.
American energy independence is possible for the first time in history.
By reducing our dependence on foreign oil, we won’t have to send untold amounts of money to governments who don’t have our best interests in mind, particularly those in the Middle East.
We have reduced our CO2 contribution over 200 kilotons per day and overall CO2 emissions 1.7% with no economic kneecapping. Our greenhouse gas emissions are at their lowest rate in 20 years. This compared to Kyoto signatories whose emissions will rise between 0.5 and 3% this year, even after subsidizing efforts to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.
We have unlocked a vast energy resource while remaining environmentally responsible. The earthquakes allegedly caused by fracking have been shown to be so small, as to be inconsequential. And, there is no reputable evidence it pollutes aquifers any more than historical drilling activity.
Thanks to fracking, Oil & Gas is perhaps the only robust industry that is hiring at every level. We offer high paying jobs and pay far more of our income as taxes and fees than virtually any other industry.
Every year, drilling leases bring multibillion dollar transfer payments to rural and agricultural communities across America.
Thankfully, world technology leadership is finally being applied to something other than posting pictures of what you had for dinner.
Just thought you might want to have facts, instead of an encyclopedic diatribe.''
Nowhere in your post on fracking do you speak to, let alone address, the frightening environmental impact off the process.
Since I'm certain you realize that the impact of the process and the elimination of fracking by products are the basis for opposition to the process I'll take your silence to mean that you have no defense to the environmental concerns.
That being said, I, for one, am not willing to sacrifice long term health and environmental sustainability for short term economic gain. Sorry, you, and fracking, lose. And your loss us going to get worse as time goes by.
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Smacks of Central American foriegn policy in the 50s and. 60s.
Not my area if expertise my any stretch, but I'm not clueless either.
Does everyone of your posts have to have the "Murica crap in it...we get it you're intellectually superior...
Actually thats only the second time I can recall I've done that. So no, not everyone of my posts has the 'Murica crap in it.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/07/25/ISIS-destroys-tombs-of-two-prophets-in-Mosul.html - ( New Window )