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NFT: Stephen A. Smith: Don't give a man "elements of provocation"

Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 12:56 pm
Screamin A with his idiotic take on the Ray Rice debacle talked about a woman's responsibility not to provoke a man into hitting her. When you're on screen with Skip Bayless and he's not the dumbest man in the shot, it's time to get off of television.
Link - ( New Window )
And don't wear short skirts either  
buford : 7/25/2014 12:57 pm : link
you sluts!
Hopefully the sure to follow TwitterRage  
GIANTSr01 : 7/25/2014 12:57 pm : link
gets him fired. Doubt it though
And he stays on TV...  
okiegiant : 7/25/2014 12:58 pm : link
.
To summarize  
Rob in NYC : 7/25/2014 12:59 pm : link
bitch had it coming?
The transcript of Smith's rant is something else.  
cosmicj : 7/25/2014 1:02 pm : link
The rant is so incoherent that it's not even fair to say he took a position. He doesn't sound smart enough to link thoughts together and actually form a position.
SAS says something stupid surprises someone somewhere?  
Wuphat : 7/25/2014 1:02 pm : link
...
I think all he is saying is that women should know their place.  
Cam in MO : 7/25/2014 1:03 pm : link
Quote:
But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there's real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we've got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don't think that's broached enough, is all I'm saying. No point of blame.



Since when has that been a bad thing to say?

RE: SAS says something stupid surprises someone somewhere?  
Rob in NYC : 7/25/2014 1:05 pm : link
In comment 11781402 Wuphat said:
Quote:
...


Awesome alliteration.
.  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2014 1:06 pm : link
Keith Law said he would no longer interview on WEEI...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 1:06 pm : link
because one of the hosts called Erin Andrews a "gutless bitch" and in his non-apology apology went on to say that if she was 15 lbs heavier she would be a waitress at Perkins. Curious to see what he'll do in that he works for ESPN.
It's a good thing people like Smith are engaged in talking on TV  
cosmicj : 7/25/2014 1:06 pm : link
instead of doing something with consequences, like fixing an electrical line or operating a forklift.
not quite sure what the "gutless bitch" part is about  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2014 1:07 pm : link
But I can agree with the idea that a porkier Erin Andrews sure as hell isn't scoring a gig on the #1 Fox NFL broadcast.
It was for her Wainwright interview...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 1:09 pm : link
presumably the Boston hosts wanted her to do some hard-hitting journalism during the ASG and get him to admit that he had grooved a pitch to Jeter because of course the Captain couldn't double on a real Adam Wainwright fastball.
hah....I see  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2014 1:11 pm : link
I so fervently wish for Boston to sink into the Atlantic.
I think he's saying  
I Love Clams Casino : 7/25/2014 1:13 pm : link
to women..."hey, if you don't want to get hit back, don't hit a man"

Of course, due to the nature of the way he speaks, I could be wrong.
cringeworthy  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/25/2014 1:16 pm : link
but the good news for him is that he explained his stance so poorly that it almost gives him more of a chance to recover from this.
What he was saying is a lot more expansive...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 1:16 pm : link
than just saying "don't hit your man and expect that he won't hit you back."
Can you name anyone with a more affected demeanor  
Overseer : 7/25/2014 1:20 pm : link
than Stephen A Smith? Genuinely curious if someone can come up with anyone (let's say not counting politicians since they're too obvious).

He's brutal.
here's the thing  
Nitro : 7/25/2014 1:21 pm : link
sub out women for men in this, and you'd probably say it's sound advice - don't provoke someone to the point where physical violence seems their likely reaction. If you've ever been in an argument with a certain type of dude, you know there's a point where you can cross a line and that's what's coming. There's ways to avoid that.

As cluttered as Screamin's statement is, prevention advice does not equal victim blaming.

Assuming the person your talking to is capable of this, act accordingly. Whether they should or shouldn't be this way is irrelevant.

Now, a few comedians making the same point, since this is the only way you're actually allowed to voice this sort of opinion:

Jim Jefferies

Chris Rock - Don't hit women - ( New Window )
Chris Rock is a comedian...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 1:25 pm : link
Stephen A. Smith isn't a brain surgeon or a politician, to be sure, but he is in the business of giving his opinion and in this case his opinion is pretty ----ing close to victim-blaming.
He's pretty scary  
BigBlueShock : 7/25/2014 1:32 pm : link
I love the reference in that article to "my boys...". His boys are gonna mess someone up. Yikes. Who exactly are his boys? And when did being l gangsta become cool? I really wish we could go back in time and delete the day THAT happened...
...  
yankees78 : 7/25/2014 1:35 pm : link
I hope he is on drugs
I just don't like his voice  
Bill L : 7/25/2014 1:35 pm : link
.
Reading the entire transcript  
eclipz928 : 7/25/2014 1:42 pm : link
and putting the quoted snippet in context - there's nothing contraversial about what he said. Men shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't provoke men. I'm not sure where the wires are getting crossed for some of you.
I heard him earlier  
UConn4523 : 7/25/2014 1:43 pm : link
talk about how what RR did was incredibly wrong, but we also don't know what happened in the elevator, and that he was likely provoked.

He was all over RR and talked about being raised by his mom and 4 older sisters. The full context isn't being given, in this case.
by him I mean SAS  
UConn4523 : 7/25/2014 1:44 pm : link
being raised by his mom and sisters, and would never hit a woman nor condone it. Says men that do need to be dealt with which is pretty much a verbatim quote.
RE: He's pretty scary  
Cam in MO : 7/25/2014 1:51 pm : link
In comment 11781439 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
I love the reference in that article to "my boys...". His boys are gonna mess someone up. Yikes. Who exactly are his boys? And when did being l gangsta become cool? I really wish we could go back in time and delete the day THAT happened...


Being a gangster has pretty much always been cool.



RE: Reading the entire transcript  
buford : 7/25/2014 1:53 pm : link
In comment 11781460 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
and putting the quoted snippet in context - there's nothing contraversial about what he said. Men shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't provoke men. I'm not sure where the wires are getting crossed for some of you.


It implies that women are at fault for domestic violence because they provoke men. While that may be true in some cases, most abusers are 'provoked' by things like not having goat for dinner.
RE: here's the thing  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/25/2014 1:53 pm : link
In comment 11781427 Nitro said:
Quote:
sub out women for men in this, and you'd probably say it's sound advice - don't provoke someone to the point where physical violence seems their likely reaction. If you've ever been in an argument with a certain type of dude, you know there's a point where you can cross a line and that's what's coming. There's ways to avoid that.

As cluttered as Screamin's statement is, prevention advice does not equal victim blaming.

Assuming the person your talking to is capable of this, act accordingly. Whether they should or shouldn't be this way is irrelevant.

Now, a few comedians making the same point, since this is the only way you're actually allowed to voice this sort of opinion:

Jim Jefferies Chris Rock - Don't hit women - ( New Window )


Double standards exist. I get the point about equality but it's just how it is. Especially when the example is a pro football player built like a tank and his wife who is half the size of him.

If you actually felt physically threatened by a woman, I can atleast understand where you're coming from if you hit her. If Ronda Rousey went insane and attacked you, ok I get punching her to protect yourself from having your arm ripped off. If a woman tried to stab you with a knife, I understand if you punched her.

But you can't hit a woman for talking shit and getting under your skin. Double standard or not, it's just not a valid enough excuse for a man to hit a woman.

And there's just no way Ray Rice could ever feel physically threatened by his wife unless she pulled a weapon out on him, and heels don't count.
Stephen A Smith  
chris r : 7/25/2014 1:54 pm : link
is one of the dumbest people I have ever seen or heard.
RE: RE: Reading the entire transcript  
eclipz928 : 7/25/2014 1:58 pm : link
In comment 11781474 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 11781460 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


and putting the quoted snippet in context - there's nothing contraversial about what he said. Men shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't provoke men. I'm not sure where the wires are getting crossed for some of you.



It implies that women are at fault for domestic violence because they provoke men. While that may be true in some cases, most abusers are 'provoked' by things like not having goat for dinner.

His comments don't imply that at all.
Hell, it isn't even a valid excuse for a man to hit another man....  
Cam in MO : 7/25/2014 1:58 pm : link
Quote:
But you can't hit a woman for talking shit and getting under your skin. Double standard or not, it's just not a valid enough excuse for a man to hit a woman.




btw Nitro  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/25/2014 2:01 pm : link
I know you don't condone it and are just talking about "prevention advice".
I think we need to know the provocative elements  
Some Fan : 7/25/2014 2:06 pm : link
that deserved cold-cocking a woman basically in public. I would like to know when it is appropriate for me to do that.
RE: RE: RE: Reading the entire transcript  
buford : 7/25/2014 2:09 pm : link
In comment 11781483 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 11781474 buford said:


Quote:


In comment 11781460 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


and putting the quoted snippet in context - there's nothing contraversial about what he said. Men shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't provoke men. I'm not sure where the wires are getting crossed for some of you.



It implies that women are at fault for domestic violence because they provoke men. While that may be true in some cases, most abusers are 'provoked' by things like not having goat for dinner.


His comments don't imply that at all.


Yes they do. What provokes each man? How does a woman know if she is provoking? What is provoking? Again, it places the onus on the victim in this case.
there is an alternative  
Les in TO : 7/25/2014 2:15 pm : link
to hitting if your wife provokes you that badly that you are considering a physical response....you can leave the room, take a long walk and a deep breath and figure out whether your marriage is still worth it.
Not popular, but I agree with SAS on what he's trying to get across  
Csonka : 7/25/2014 2:18 pm : link
Some people say or do things on the assumption that there are no consequences. If you're way out of your weight class, sometimes you have to be a little careful. If I'm in a bar and one of the Gracie's really pisses me off, I'm going to laugh it off and call it a night.
Doing things without thinking of the consequences  
Some Fan : 7/25/2014 2:25 pm : link
would probably be the stupidest way to live your life. That, and saying "I don't judge" would be a close second.
think he may have been referring  
bc4life : 7/25/2014 2:27 pm : link
to rumors that she may have spit in his face or something like that.

said poorly - think wt he was trying to get across - if you try to take advantage of the fact that men should not hit women and spit in someone's face, kick them in the nads, etc. it may precipitate a violent act, and any consequences the man receives will not undo the damage his violent act committed.

I always find it amazing how context  
GMANinDC : 7/25/2014 2:34 pm : link
can be omitted when rendering an opinion or judgement on someone..
So then the elements of provocation...  
manh george : 7/25/2014 2:41 pm : link
include water, saliva and chewing gum?

He needs to make it clear that they don't include words. Even then, no excuse, but you can add back a few IQ points. As it stands, I don't think the SC would permit him to be executed, based upon highly diminished capacity. Maybe he is aiming for that.

...  
bradshaw44 : 7/25/2014 2:42 pm : link
In comment 11781403 Cam in MO said:
Quote:


Quote:


But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there's real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we've got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don't think that's broached enough, is all I'm saying. No point of blame.



WTF... I think the man has talked himself stupid.
I agree with the sentiment  
RB^2 : 7/25/2014 2:48 pm : link
that women shouldn't behave belligerently but that's part of a broader point that all people should act in a civilized way towards each other. That obligation obviously extends to guys like Rice not hitting women.
The only time I could envision hitting a woman .....  
Crispino : 7/25/2014 2:52 pm : link
would be if she had a weapon of some kind and I had to defend myself or another person from serious harm. That's it. There"'s no other provocation of any kind that warrants knocking a woman unconscious. None.
Call it what it is, a dumbshit thing to say...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 2:55 pm : link
nothing that woman could say, and for that matter nothing she could do with her hands, could justify all 200+ pounds of him knocking her unconscious and dragging her through a hotel. This isn't a shove, or a grab, or a smack, serious though those of course are. There isn't a ton of nuance here.

And as a pathetic postscript to this story, SAS's Twitter faithful are besieging Michelle Beadles with all manner of cursing and garbage for pointing out the blatantly obvious.
Dune  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 2:57 pm : link
I'm no Smith fan but he actually made it pretty clear that he agrees 100% with your statement above
That's not the sense I got from what he said...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 3:01 pm : link
and again, we're not discussing an incident that didn't result in injury, "minor" as DV goes. We're talking about brutality from a much larger man. It's the equivalent of bringing up the length of a woman's hemline in discussing a rape case when the rapist came in through her bedroom window.
i guess you missed the part where he said  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 3:06 pm : link
we know they are wrong
we know they are criminal
we know they probably deserve to be put in jail

referring to anyone who puts their hands on a woman
Yes, that's typically where you stop the conversation  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 3:07 pm : link
...
Smith and Bayless know where their bread is buttered. Bless  
Marty in Albany : 7/25/2014 3:09 pm : link
their hearts.
Bingo  
Wuphat : 7/25/2014 3:13 pm : link
Quote:
Yes, that's typically where you stop the conversation
Dunedin81 : 3:07 pm : link : reply
...


Because everything that followed is on par with what follows:

"I'm not a racist, but..."
What does the 'A' stand for, Asshole?  
Geomon : 7/25/2014 3:13 pm : link
Victim blaming, go figure.
RE: That's not the sense I got from what he said...  
eclipz928 : 7/25/2014 3:28 pm : link
In comment 11781592 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
and again, we're not discussing an incident that didn't result in injury, "minor" as DV goes. We're talking about brutality from a much larger man. It's the equivalent of bringing up the length of a woman's hemline in discussing a rape case when the rapist came in through her bedroom window.
That's a very poor analogy. "Provoking" a person by wearing sexualized clothing is a passive act. Provoking a person by hitting him or spitting on him is an aggressive act.
But again, what provokes one many may not  
buford : 7/25/2014 3:33 pm : link
provoke another. Or the other way around. Still not an excuse for what he did and any caveat on what he did minimizes his guilt and puts it on her. Now sure, you can say for your own good, don't act like that with anyone, not just a guy. But as I said before, some men can be provoked by something not aggressive. Unless he feared bodily harm, he should not have touched her.
The analogy is just fine  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 3:35 pm : link
a. it isn't clear that SAS was drawing the line of "provocation" that narrowly and b. it's utterly inapplicable in this situation because nothing she did could have reasonably "provoked" his knocking her out and dragging her across a hotel.
Its very clear that he's speaking in general terms.  
eclipz928 : 7/25/2014 3:48 pm : link
Obviously this is all in context to the Rice situation, but his general statement was what we all agree with which is that there's no circumstance where a man should hit a woman but also that women shouldn't do anything purposefully that may provoke a man to hit them. There was nothing in anything he said that gave the indication that a woman is ever at fault once a man does hit her.
And let's look at it from the other side...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 3:49 pm : link
woman gets her ass kicked, her response should be "that ---- hit me" and not "what did I do to deserve this?"
It's pretty clear what the words mean...  
manh george : 7/25/2014 3:55 pm : link
and if he meant something else, he needs to explain himself.

The words mean the following:

a) Men shouldn't physically abuse women, but women need to recognize that their man may not have much self-control.

b) Women need to avoid behavior that "provokes" their man's loss of self control.

c) If that means being submissive and hiding in a corner, then the woman needs to be submissive and hide in a corner, or otherwise avoid provoking him.

d) If she refuses to do that, then, well, the man's response is criminal, and is also subject to a physical attack by SAS's "boys," but the woman still has substantial responsibility. So, there are two wrongs involved, the man's criminality, and the woman's inability to avoid provocation by being sufficiently aware of how to behave in his presence.

If "provoke" has some other, hidden meaning, he needs to bring it out of hiding. I also wonder: if her man is drunk, or depressed, or gets fired from his job, does she need to hide in a closet? That part isn't so clear.

I think what he is basically saying  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 3:56 pm : link
that actions like in this video of Beyonce's sister going buck wild on Jay-Z are not acceptable.

I know it will be tough, but please don't take this as me saying that Jay-Z had a right to knock her out


Link - ( New Window )
He's trying to help  
BlueinRoch : 7/25/2014 4:07 pm : link
I work in an inner city school and I deal with this on an almost daily basis. I tell my boys that it is NEVER acceptable to put your hands on a girl. I also have to remind my girls all the time that if you don't want the boys hitting you, stop hitting them. In the black community especially, girls are becoming more and more aggressive. They will "drop the gloves" and go at a boy with no thought at all. He is not placing blame on the victim, what he is essentially saying is that everyone needs to keep their hands to themselves so that things do not escalate. It is a shame that he or anyone else has to say anything like this, but ignoring reality is not going to make our girls and women any safer.
RE: I think what he is basically saying  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:08 pm : link
In comment 11781654 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
that actions like in this video of Beyonce's sister going buck wild on Jay-Z are not acceptable.

I know it will be tough, but please don't take this as me saying that Jay-Z had a right to knock her out
Link - ( New Window )


But he didn't. And neither did his bodyguard. Just because you want to knock someone out doesn't mean you should.
As I said above...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 4:10 pm : link
turn it on its head. What is he telling a woman who has already been assaulted? Sorry, and good thing he's in jail, but ask yourself what you did to provoke this, maybe that'll stop it the next time around.
RE: Its very clear that he's speaking in general terms.  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:11 pm : link
In comment 11781645 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
Obviously this is all in context to the Rice situation, but his general statement was what we all agree with which is that there's no circumstance where a man should hit a woman but also that women shouldn't do anything purposefully that may provoke a man to hit them. There was nothing in anything he said that gave the indication that a woman is ever at fault once a man does hit her.


That's a contradiction. If there is never a time a woman is at fault then why say women shouldn't provoke men? And again, who knows what will provoke someone?
It just doesn't seem that complex to me.  
River Mike : 7/25/2014 4:14 pm : link
There is no reason to ever hit a woman except in legitimate self defense (don't laugh, it could happen). On the other hand women should not take that as carte blanche to go crazy bitch on a man because he's not supposed to hit her. Now, having experienced BBI's reading comprehension, let me state clearly, even if she does go crazy bitch on him that is still no reason to hit her, just saying she in turn should not take it as a free pass to do so.
RE: RE: I think what he is basically saying  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 4:14 pm : link
In comment 11781661 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 11781654 Blue Baller said:


Quote:


that actions like in this video of Beyonce's sister going buck wild on Jay-Z are not acceptable.

I know it will be tough, but please don't take this as me saying that Jay-Z had a right to knock her out
Link - ( New Window )



But he didn't. And neither did his bodyguard. Just because you want to knock someone out doesn't mean you should.


Wow....even though I explicitly said that he had no right to hit her you still didn't get it

If that's what he's getting at...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 4:16 pm : link
he should just say "don't ever put your hands on a man". Probably the wrong time to say that anyway, because nothing she could have done with her hands could have justified his cold-cocking her and dragging her across a hotel floor. But his comment went beyond that. He addressed the possibility that a man might just be insane or full of rage such that provocation was not an issue, but then suggested there was a remainder that would not resort to violence without provocation. It certainly didn't sound like he constrained himself to instances where she struck him first.
The whole 'never a reason to hit a woman' stuff is some whiteknight  
Nitro : 7/25/2014 4:18 pm : link
BS. It infantilizes women and scoffs at the notion that they could be dangerous. It's more sexist than anything.

There's a reason to hit anyone, regardless of sex, if they were coming at you with a weapon, or effective punches/kicks whatever. The physical disparity in this particular case isn't always so pointed.
RE: RE: RE: I think what he is basically saying  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:21 pm : link
In comment 11781670 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
In comment 11781661 buford said:


Quote:


In comment 11781654 Blue Baller said:


Quote:


that actions like in this video of Beyonce's sister going buck wild on Jay-Z are not acceptable.

I know it will be tough, but please don't take this as me saying that Jay-Z had a right to knock her out
Link - ( New Window )



But he didn't. And neither did his bodyguard. Just because you want to knock someone out doesn't mean you should.



Wow....even though I explicitly said that he had no right to hit her you still didn't get it


I do get it. He was provoked and still didn't need to knock a bitch out. I was agreeing with you.
Blue Baller  
manh george : 7/25/2014 4:21 pm : link
He got it, you didn't.

His point is that Jay Z acted appropriately, and that this situation holds no lessons for what SAS is talking about. None. Nada. Nicht. Nein.

Comprende?
RE: Blue Baller  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 4:23 pm : link
In comment 11781678 manh george said:
Quote:
He got it, you didn't.

His point is that Jay Z acted appropriately, and that this situation holds no lessons for what SAS is talking about. None. Nada. Nicht. Nein.

Comprende?


He was talking to the Solanges of the world

He is saying don't act like that
RE: The whole 'never a reason to hit a woman' stuff is some whiteknight  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:23 pm : link
In comment 11781674 Nitro said:
Quote:
BS. It infantilizes women and scoffs at the notion that they could be dangerous. It's more sexist than anything.

There's a reason to hit anyone, regardless of sex, if they were coming at you with a weapon, or effective punches/kicks whatever. The physical disparity in this particular case isn't always so pointed.


No, it does not infantilize women. Unless you are physically matched, meaning the woman is unusually large and strong, then the physical disparity is almost always a huge advantage for a man.

Just stay away from crazy bitches if you can't control yourselves.
This idea all you guys have, that women can't be the abuser  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 4:25 pm : link
either physically or mentally is pretty sexist IMO



I'm inclined to agree with Nitro on this one...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 4:26 pm : link
women are an increasing share of domestic violence cases. Nowhere near on par with men, but there are women out there who are reasonably strong and at least the equal of the men they're dating or have married, especially when you account for the natural restraint that any decent man would show regarding putting his hands on a woman. Add in weapons and it's a different equation.

But that's not the issue in Rice's case, nor is it the issue, or at least the only issue, raised by what SAS said.
No one (including Smith)  
Blue Baller : 7/25/2014 4:28 pm : link
is saying Rice was justified.

Smith just used the story as a launching point
men  
Les in TO : 7/25/2014 4:30 pm : link
are the victims of domestic assault in significantly larger numbers than what is reported. men don't report it because usually the actual physical hurt is in most cases minimal relative to the flipside situation and for pride/ego reasons. but it does happen quite a bit and it's one of those double standards. the bottom line is that you don't hit back, unless you will suffer serious physical harm and need to defend yourself.

at the same time, women should not be assaulting men either (spitting on someone is a form of assault). "provoking" was the wrong term.
It's a shitty launching point...  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 4:31 pm : link
the analogy I used above is probably a pretty reasonable one. Provocation for getting coldcocked and dragged across a hotel is the equivalent of using a forced entry rape to start a conversation about hemlines and reasonable drinking behavior. Bad segue.
I have always felt...  
manh george : 7/25/2014 4:31 pm : link
that the appropriate response for a woman to deal with a man twice her size who can't keep his hands to himself is to:

1) Generate proof of his physical aggression --e.g., a selfie--to provide to the courts.

2) Wait until he's asleep, or even spike his drink.

3) Apply a large frying pan to the side of his head, repeatedly.

#3 may require practice on a crash test dummy.
RE: This idea all you guys have, that women can't be the abuser  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:34 pm : link
In comment 11781684 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
either physically or mentally is pretty sexist IMO




No one has said that.
The transcript, for the lazy  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 4:40 pm : link
Quote:
It's not about him, then. It's about you, and here's what I mean by that. We keep talking about the guys. We know you have no business putting your hands on a woman. I don't know how many times I got to reiterate that. But as a man who was raised by women, see I know what I'm going to do if somebody touches a female member of my family. I know what I'm going to do, I know what my boys are going to do. I know what, I'm going to have to remind myself that I work for the Worldwide Leader, I'm going to have to get law enforcement officials involved because of what I'm going to be tempted to do. But what I've tried to employ the female members of my family, some of who you all met and talked to and what have you, is that again, and this what, I've done this all my life, let's make sure we don't do anything to provoke wrong actions, because if I come, or somebody else come, whether it's law enforcement officials, your brother or the fellas that you know, if we come after somebody has put their hands on you, it doesn't negate the fact that they already put their hands on you. So let's try to make sure that we can do our part in making sure that that doesn't happen. Now you got some dudes that are just horrible and they're going to do it anyway, and there's never an excuse to put your hands on a woman. But domestic violence or whatever the case may be, with men putting their hands on women, is obviously a very real, real issue in our society. And I think that just talking about what guys shouldn't do, we got to also make sure that you can do your part to do whatever you can do to make, to try to make sure it doesn't happen. We know they're wrong. We know they're criminals. We know they probably deserve to be in jail. In Ray Rice's case, he probably deserves more than a 2-game suspension which we both acknowledged. But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there's real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we've got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don't think that's broached enough, is all I'm saying. No point of blame.
What's getting lost in this statement  
sjnyfan : 7/25/2014 4:53 pm : link
charged by (understood) hatred of SAS are the particular elements of provocation that night in Febuary. Many people forget that Janay Palmer was charged that night for assault too. The report stated visual evidence from witnesses and surveillance of her striking him multiple times before Ray Rice did what is inexcusable. Those videos have been withheld. The shocking footage we saw through TMZ was sold without Revel's consent and cost an employee his job (not before a handsome payout). But that shocking footage is what has stuck with us vs. the full story. Should it soften our stance on Rice? No. Does that give Rice the right? Absolutely not and he or any man that does so should be reprimanded to the fullest extent of the law. Most men, Jay-Z included, no when to walk away, especially when it puts your career/celebrity/character on the line. But mentally all men aren't created equal. Some are very stupid, especially in heated moments. Ray Rice showed he can be one of those idiots. But violence begets violence. As much as it is common law in society that a man shouldn't hit a woman, something I stand by, doesn't mean a woman can/should do whatever they want physically, verbally, etc. to a man. It also doesn't mean that a man won't attack them physically because again, all men aren't mentally equal. Same goes for a woman going off on another woman for that matter. This is what I believe Stephen A Smith meant, even though he did a very poor job (over)articulating it. We're not talking about a case where a guy attacks a woman simply because he can, because he's a bully or because she burned the pot roast. We're talking about BOTH parties knowing when to walk away, being proactive instead of reactive and to not let things escalate to a point of no return.

If we should be angry at anyone, it should be the NFL for the light suspension.
Complete giberish  
buford : 7/25/2014 4:53 pm : link
.
RE: The transcript, for the lazy  
Randy in CT : 7/25/2014 5:08 pm : link
In comment 11781701 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:


Quote:


It's not about him, then. It's about you, and here's what I mean by that. We keep talking about the guys. We know you have no business putting your hands on a woman. I don't know how many times I got to reiterate that. But as a man who was raised by women, see I know what I'm going to do if somebody touches a female member of my family. I know what I'm going to do, I know what my boys are going to do. I know what, I'm going to have to remind myself that I work for the Worldwide Leader, I'm going to have to get law enforcement officials involved because of what I'm going to be tempted to do. But what I've tried to employ the female members of my family, some of who you all met and talked to and what have you, is that again, and this what, I've done this all my life, let's make sure we don't do anything to provoke wrong actions, because if I come, or somebody else come, whether it's law enforcement officials, your brother or the fellas that you know, if we come after somebody has put their hands on you, it doesn't negate the fact that they already put their hands on you. So let's try to make sure that we can do our part in making sure that that doesn't happen. Now you got some dudes that are just horrible and they're going to do it anyway, and there's never an excuse to put your hands on a woman. But domestic violence or whatever the case may be, with men putting their hands on women, is obviously a very real, real issue in our society. And I think that just talking about what guys shouldn't do, we got to also make sure that you can do your part to do whatever you can do to make, to try to make sure it doesn't happen. We know they're wrong. We know they're criminals. We know they probably deserve to be in jail. In Ray Rice's case, he probably deserves more than a 2-game suspension which we both acknowledged. But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there's real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we've got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don't think that's broached enough, is all I'm saying. No point of blame.

He kept talking himself into a corner and then needed to back up and take a different route. Only to find another corner there.
I loath SAS, but I think he is getting piled on here in this new era  
PatersonPlank : 7/25/2014 5:13 pm : link
of "advanced PC". He wasn't defending the Ray Rice at all, or any guy. He was just pointing out that also, women shouldn't hit men (for example). I have always had an issue here too. I see woman hitting guys all the time and have always thought it was wrong also.
RE: I loath SAS, but I think he is getting piled on here in this new era  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 6:08 pm : link
In comment 11781725 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
of "advanced PC". He wasn't defending the Ray Rice at all, or any guy. He was just pointing out that also, women shouldn't hit men (for example). I have always had an issue here too. I see woman hitting guys all the time and have always thought it was wrong also.


It is wrong for a woman to hit a man, without a doubt. But there's a whole lot more in what SAS said than just "don't hit men."
Yup, it certainly is confusing...  
manh george : 7/25/2014 6:20 pm : link
why SAS would say "don't provoke your man," if all he meant was "don't hit your man."

"Hit" would have been so much more clear-cut, under the really
twisted-into-a-pretzel assumption that "hit" is what he meant.
Paging Bill Burr...  
Gmen703 : 7/25/2014 6:37 pm : link
"There is NO reason to hit a woman!":
http://youtu.be/AlvvCYUDHrQ
There are women that will push men's buttons  
mamamia : 7/25/2014 6:40 pm : link
I never knew this until a Dr told me. Sometimes its the women who are abusive and men lose it. Its terrible and inexcusable.
As Stephen would say...  
Daniel in Kentucky : 7/25/2014 6:57 pm : link
"OHHH PA-STOP-IT!!!!!"
RE: There are women that will push men's buttons  
BigBlueShock : 7/25/2014 7:11 pm : link
In comment 11781764 mamamia said:
Quote:
I never knew this until a Dr told me. Sometimes its the women who are abusive and men lose it. Its terrible and inexcusable.

Not sure if serious?
sjny  
buford : 7/25/2014 7:12 pm : link
my comment was about SAS, not your post.

Obviously these 2 have an abusive relationship. She married him after this incident, so there is an issue here. I bet it wasn't the first, or last, time they have come to blows.

The codependency issues are the real problem. Men who abuse women find women who are programmed to accept the abuse and excuse it. It's a sickness. They need therapy.
'women programmed to accept abuse'  
Nitro : 7/25/2014 7:21 pm : link
way to take away all agency for women, bbi's resident retard.
How much time have you spent with battered women  
buford : 7/25/2014 7:53 pm : link
Nitro?
RE: 'women programmed to accept abuse'  
Dunedin81 : 7/25/2014 7:58 pm : link
In comment 11781802 Nitro said:
Quote:
way to take away all agency for women, bbi's resident retard.


Buford might have been clumsy in how she said it, but she isn't really wrong. The stats bear it out, perhaps the most important "risk factor" for a woman being abused is her exposure to abuse (child and spousal) growing up.
Nitro  
BigBlueShock : 7/25/2014 8:03 pm : link
if you refuse to believe that some women will stay in abusive relationships, there is no helping you. Buford never once claimed to be classifying ALL women.

You talked about "white knights" in a previous post. My guess is you've lived a sheltered life with a white picket fence and have no fucking clue about how the other half lives. If that's not the case, I apologize in advance, but that is exactly how you've come across on this thread.
Ray Rice  
est1986 : 7/25/2014 8:24 pm : link
Did not have to put her to sleep, hes a fucking beast he could have restrained her. He should get shot in
his ACL week 3.
buford is absolutely right about this:  
Cam in MO : 7/25/2014 8:24 pm : link
Quote:
The codependency issues are the real problem. Men who abuse women find women who are programmed to accept the abuse and excuse it. It's a sickness. They need therapy.




RE: sjny  
sjnyfan : 7/25/2014 9:27 pm : link
In comment 11781795 buford said:
Quote:
my comment was about SAS, not your post.

Obviously these 2 have an abusive relationship. She married him after this incident, so there is an issue here. I bet it wasn't the first, or last, time they have come to blows.

The codependency issues are the real problem. Men who abuse women find women who are programmed to accept the abuse and excuse it. It's a sickness. They need therapy.


no problem, buford
"there are plenty of reasons to hit a woman...  
RicFlair : 7/25/2014 9:54 pm : link
you just don't do it."
I thought Screaming A turned the corner  
dpinzow : 7/25/2014 9:55 pm : link
yikes
BBS thanks for the contribution and armchair analysis  
Nitro : 7/26/2014 4:45 pm : link
I said all agency, not all women. Reading is hard, but I forget that sometimes on my Wally Beaver wunder world.
Your performance on this thread is all we need to know about you  
BigBlueShock : 7/26/2014 5:17 pm : link
you should bow out before you expose anymore of your ignorance.
There is middle ground here..  
Dunedin81 : 7/26/2014 8:27 pm : link
clearly buford is right in general terms, that exposure to abuse in youth increases the risk that a woman will find herself in an abusive relationship. But Nitro's point, which I take to suggest that we can deprive women of agency and make them purely passive and fatalistic recipients of male abuse, is one with which I take issue but it's not an evil or unseemly argument by any means.
But that isn't remotely what I said  
buford : 7/26/2014 8:42 pm : link
I never said all women. I sure as heck would never stay with someone who was abusive. But there are women, and men too, who stay with abusive partners, and make excuses and blame themselves for getting abused. I've seen it first hand. We can't comprehend it because we don't have those issues.
He's leaving ESPN Radio for Sirius  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/26/2014 9:19 pm : link
Thank god.

In an interestingly-timed move, the New York Daily News is reporting that Stephen A. Smith will be leaving his ESPN Radio gig in New York and head to the uncensored airwaves of SiriusXM. And, also interestingly, he will be joining Chris "Mad Dog" Russo's stable of hosts on Mad Dog Radio.

http://deadspin.com/stephen-a-smith-leaving-espn-radio-for-siriusxm-mad-do-1611513383?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Oh my  
BigBlueShock : 7/26/2014 9:45 pm : link
Russo and SAS on the same station?

I'd rather sit in a vat of acid
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