NFT: Mets at Brewers Game 2

more Colorado stuff....

First, contrary to what has been reported, Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki does not have a no-trade clause in his contract according to Thomas Harding of MLB.com.

Second, the Rockies are said to be very high on Noah Syndergaard, Brandon Nimmo, Steven Matz and Dilson Herrera.

Joel Sherman says that if the Mets are willing to part with some combination of those prospects, “they will will be factors for CarGo, Tulowitzki or any other star that comes onto the market.”

give them Nimmo and Matz/Montero one of the two and don't think twice. That has to be enough to get it done. With Cargo we don't need Nimmo because Conforto will be here in a couple years and the outfield is full. Would like to keep Matz but we are loaded in young starters so we can afford to give one away.

Granderson, Murphy, Wright, Cargo, Duda, Flores, TDA, Lagares is a sick lineup. Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, deGrom, Neise/Gee is drool worthy and our bullpen is stacked. Thats a playoff team if Ive ever seen one.

the Flores 2 part feature I am linking it again. Thanks sshin.
Link - ( New Window )

"We offer Montero + for CarGo"
"We want Syndergaard"
"If you want Syndergaard it's going to cost Tulowitzki"

Well let's see. We know it will take more than Tejada going ice cold hitting for the past month.
We know him getting crushed in the hand by a pitch won't get him to the bench.
And we know that when Tejada gets hit in the head by a 95mph pitch - Campbell will play as many games at SS as Flores will.

BOTH! lol. Talk about selling tickets. Mets would have best roster in baseball at least on paper if they did that.

Granderson, Murphy, Wright, Tulo, Cargo, Duda, TDA, Lagares

lol. Ok Ill wake up now.

Give them the choice of a Nimmo package with Montero or a matz package with Herrera and a lesser sp prospect in each proposal

In comment 11781771 ZGiants98 said:

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BOTH! lol. Talk about selling tickets. Mets would have best roster in baseball at least on paper if they did that. Granderson, Murphy, Wright, Tulo, Cargo, Duda, TDA, Lagares lol. Ok Ill wake up now.

payroll would be way to high for wilpons :)
I don't see Colorado moving tulo

I think if Tejada goes into one of his real bad cold stretches again and his avg dips to .200 again he is done. You can tell Sandy originally called Flores up to start but Tejada started hitting right around the call up and it saved his bacon. I get the sense Sandy didn't interfere because Collins had a valid excuse but if Tejada goes cold again the backlash will be too great. Tejada is still definitely on a short leash with this organization Collins be damned.

Noah Synderguuard
Michael Comforto
Brandon Nimmo
Steven Matz
Kevin Plawecki
Dilson Herrerra
Rafael Montero
Dominic Smith
Gavin Cecchini
Marcos Molina

In comment 11781775 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781771 ZGiants98 said: Quote: BOTH! lol. Talk about selling tickets. Mets would have best roster in baseball at least on paper if they did that. Granderson, Murphy, Wright, Tulo, Cargo, Duda, TDA, Lagares lol. Ok Ill wake up now. payroll would be way to high for wilpons :) I don't see Colorado moving tulo

Funny thing, from clearing Colon/Young the payroll would still only be around 110 or so. Still pretty low. We heard Sandy say 105ish was the max. Its not that far apart. If you acquired both, Mets fans would fly to citified. The buzz would be incredible. They would pay for themselves.

and I'd think Montero might be getting over-downgraded at this point.

In comment 11781777 CGiants07 said:

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Noah Synderguuard Michael Comforto Brandon Nimmo Steven Matz Kevin Plawecki Dilson Herrerra Rafael Montero Dominic Smith Gavin Cecchini Marcos Molina

Cechinni would miss the top 10 and Rosario is a top 5.

Thats why we are in the top 4 in a league with the Cubs. Sure the Cubs have a few awesome premium guys but our system has quantity now. Serious depth. Guys like Ynoa can't even sniff the top ten and are still exciting players.

Ahmed Rosario on your list? You have Cechinni over Rosario? i like Cechinni, but uh-uh

Apparently Mets fans ignore Wilmah too now, even with a new first name. Crushes AAA as a 21 and 22 year old, and still can't crack our top ten...

was on with Mike a few weeks ago and said everyone in baseball is high on Matz

If Syndergaard was already up now all everyone would be talking about is Matz. Unfortunately for him, he's still in the shadows.

In comment 11781787 Shecky said:

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Apparently Mets fans ignore Wilmah too now, even with a new first name. Crushes AAA as a 21 and 22 year old, and still can't crack our top ten...

Yeah. If he still qualified he has to still be top 10. If Puello refinds his stroke and he has been showing signs lately he probably rockets up the boards again too.

In comment 11781817 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 11781787 Shecky said: Quote: Apparently Mets fans ignore Wilmah too now, even with a new first name. Crushes AAA as a 21 and 22 year old, and still can't crack our top ten... Yeah. If he still qualified he has to still be top 10. If Puello refinds his stroke and he has been showing signs lately he probably rockets up the boards again too.

having over 100 abs I exclude him or else he probably slides in at 6 or 7

@joe_sheehan: In the past three seasons, Carlos Gonzalez and Troy Tulowitzki have started the same game just 34% of the time. #rockies #mets?

hitting a nifty .440

just comes down to what Colorado is willing to do and which is the better value. Considering both have warts, they should really just go for whichever player Colorado is more fairly willing to deal.

I don't see the upside for COL to deal either player right now as opposed to the offseason, but who knows. There seems to be a lot of chatter, maybe neither team decides the players potentially involved aren't worth risking to still be on the table in 5 months?

Murphy makes some of the dumbest fucking mistakes in the field. Killing Wheels right now who is throwing a gem.

Is so frustrating to watch in field. Just cost us a run. Please trade him

Wheeler coming into his own and allows a run without a hit.

wheeler is working on a one hitter. lol

In comment 11781904 ripdumaine said:

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Is so frustrating to watch in field. Just cost us a run. Please trade him

He's also one of the best and most consistent hitters in the league. I can live with Murphy's defense if anyone else on the team had the ability to hit and score some runs.

In comment 11781909 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781904 ripdumaine said: Quote: Is so frustrating to watch in field. Just cost us a run. Please trade him He's also one of the best and most consistent hitters in the league. I can live with Murphy's defense if anyone else on the team had the ability to hit and score some runs.

He's a good hitter.But he's likely to get over 8 mill in arbitration. I'd rather the Mets use that money on a bigger bat. And his stock will NEVER be higher than it is right now. They should trade him.

Is it just because of the $$$ situation? I think thats pretty overblown if so.

first pitch swinger like gomez you gotta be careful there, looks like wheeler is losing it, gives up a double to weeks.

What they SHOULD do is fucking pay to keep good players and stop dicking around with believing they can build a contending team with a $100 million payroll. Its never going to happen.

In comment 11781757 ZGiants98 said:

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the Flores 2 part feature I am linking it again. Thanks sshin. Link - ( New Window )

The argument in that blog post/article is so compelling, i'm all for trying to see what we have with Flores.

In comment 11781921 PhiPsi125 said:

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What they SHOULD do is fucking pay to keep good players and stop dicking around with believing they can build a contending team with a $100 million payroll. Its never going to happen.

I'm the same, i think we should keep him but if some team really wants to overpay, well ok then here you go
sandy great at waiting for overpayers - ( New Window )

And the Mets offense is even more anemic than it already is. They need to add more offensive parts not trade away the few they have.

making garza and now gallardo lookin like aces.

are Thor and Matz (mosly because he is the only lefty worth a damn after Niese). I can be talked out of Nimmo. Everyone else I wouldnt shed a tear over -- would be great to hang onto Dilson, but between Murphy, Flores, and a host of SS prospects, I have little doubt that there are solutions at 2B. Montero and KP in particular should be moved if we can get good value for them.

Conforto would be in the Nimmo but he cant be traded now anyway.

In comment 11781924 sshin05 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781921 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: What they SHOULD do is fucking pay to keep good players and stop dicking around with believing they can build a contending team with a $100 million payroll. Its never going to happen. I'm the same, i think we should keep him but if some team really wants to overpay, well ok then here you go sandy great at waiting for overpayers - ( New Window )

I can't argue with that...however, at some point you need to stop being sellers and star to become buyers. You can't keep trading away all of your premium/proven MLB talent for prospects.

You trade Murphy and you are not likely to replace his position with a better offensive option. And that's going in the wrong direction for an offensive starved team.

Good teams pay for talent like Murphy. Bad teams trade him away for prospects.

In comment 11781929 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781924 sshin05 said: Quote: In comment 11781921 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: What they SHOULD do is fucking pay to keep good players and stop dicking around with believing they can build a contending team with a $100 million payroll. Its never going to happen. I'm the same, i think we should keep him but if some team really wants to overpay, well ok then here you go sandy great at waiting for overpayers - ( New Window ) I can't argue with that...however, at some point you need to stop being sellers and star to become buyers. You can't keep trading away all of your premium/proven MLB talent for prospects. You trade Murphy and you are not likely to replace his position with a better offensive option. And that's going in the wrong direction for an offensive starved team. Good teams pay for talent like Murphy. Bad teams trade him away for prospects.

At some point, you can get, not just prospects, players who are on MLB rosters who are pre-arb. Or MLB ready players.

In comment 11781929 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781924 sshin05 said: Quote: In comment 11781921 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: What they SHOULD do is fucking pay to keep good players and stop dicking around with believing they can build a contending team with a $100 million payroll. Its never going to happen. I'm the same, i think we should keep him but if some team really wants to overpay, well ok then here you go sandy great at waiting for overpayers - ( New Window ) I can't argue with that...however, at some point you need to stop being sellers and star to become buyers. You can't keep trading away all of your premium/proven MLB talent for prospects. You trade Murphy and you are not likely to replace his position with a better offensive option. And that's going in the wrong direction for an offensive starved team. Good teams pay for talent like Murphy. Bad teams trade him away for prospects.

Exactly!
Why in the world at this stage in their rebuild would they want to create another hole on their team. To assume that a prospect will be automatic in replacing him is naïve. There have been times it has taken them years to find the player to fill a hole at one position or another, and there certainly have been countless highly touted prospects who's major league careers never really materialized or if they did took years before doing so.

In comment 11781927 Deej said:

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are Thor and Matz (mosly because he is the only lefty worth a damn after Niese). I can be talked out of Nimmo. Everyone else I wouldnt shed a tear over -- would be great to hang onto Dilson, but between Murphy, Flores, and a host of SS prospects, I have little doubt that there are solutions at 2B. Montero and KP in particular should be moved if we can get good value for them. Conforto would be in the Nimmo but he cant be traded now anyway.

Thor, Matz, Flores, and someone in A- or lower who isnt in the our top 15 like Urena, i would do for Tulo. We are giving up 2 of our top 3 pitching prospects and a our top infielder prospect that Collins seems to hate.

.

.

A star in the making!

while i was looking up frankie's stats on baseball-reference, did duda do that!

In comment 11781937 sshin05 said:

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Thor, Matz, Flores, and someone in A- or lower who isnt in the our top 15 like Urena, i would do for Tulo. We are giving up 2 of our top 3 pitching prospects and a our top infielder prospect that Collins seems to hate.

Cant say "I'd next trade Thor AND Matz" because the guy on the other side could be Trout or Stanton etc. But I'd much rather try to structure a trade around other guys, and in particular keep one of Thor or Matz minimum.

off Krod to boot

has been playing great now for two months.

wow has been bad today. 1 for last 16 or 17.

.

In comment 11781937 sshin05 said:

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Thor, Matz, Flores, and someone in A- or lower who isnt in the our top 15 like Urena, i would do for Tulo. We are giving up 2 of our top 3 pitching prospects and a our top infielder prospect that Collins seems to hate.

I don't want to get into the hole Tulo debate again, but I just think that's an awful lot to give up for an injury prone, older, Colorado player, that makes 20 mil per year. Thor is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball, Flores is one of the best hitting prospects in baseball, Matz has been raved about, plus more? Maybe I give all that up for Stanton, but not so much for Tulo.

and let Kirk or Dekker play. Why is he on the roster? This isn't a playoff team

coming into his own? Is he really becoming a power hitting 1st baseman? Like possibly a 30+ homer guy?

I don't know what Collins is trying to accomplish giving the guy so much PT. I know there's not a "clear" LF option but it's Bobby Abreu. I know the man will be able to get on base when he's 50.. but just enough.

but non-old Abreu just hit his 30th HR tonight. First MLer to 30 this season.

Nelson Cruz just went yard for his 29th.

In comment 11781955 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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but non-old Abreu just hit his 30th HR tonight. First MLer to 30 this season. Nelson Cruz just went yard for his 29th.

Its like beating an old horse. Cruz is a diff story than Jose Abreu. But apparently, the white sox blew everyone out of the water with their offer to Abreu.

lineup tonight. Wouldn't have wanted to miss his 0-4 performance at the plate.

Seething.

He has sucked as a pinch hitter all season and they certainly don't need him in the OF, just release him at this point and give the time to the younger guys. Have to blame Sandy more than Collins on this one at this point.

Is he trying out new catchphrases?

Made a couple of real nice defensive plays behind Wheeler and at ss that does count still factor into the equation.

e.

Oh well. Over and done.

Great job putting the stinker behind them and winning this game

Leadoff walk. This would be a kick to the fucking dick if we blew this.

.

was only coming here on a long term deal, so that was a no go for good reason. He signed in Baltimore to maximize his next contract -- we're in a bad hitter's park with no DH and therefore couldnt compete on that offer. Remember, he turned down his $14 million QO which would have let him play in a band box for $8 million in Baltimore. He wasnt as guy we could have gotten for a marginally better offer than Balt gave him.

on gomez

One more out

breaking stuff is just nasty.

A lot of people made it seem like he was an awful player, though.

Anyway. Moving on.

Huge K. Finish this off, Jenrry.

Never any quit in these guys!

stole one on the brewers. Crazy game, the late innings.

Big W.

Wonder if Francesa will stick to his "all of Duda's HR's are meaningless" narrative.

In comment 11781973 arcarsenal said:

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A lot of people made it seem like he was an awful player, though. Anyway. Moving on. Huge K. Finish this off, Jenrry.

Half of his games are at DH, and his defensive WAR is -0.9 on baseball reference.

for Cruz in the offseason nobody argued with me about his hitting. it was about his fielding.

I know he spends a lot of time DHing, and to be honest I have no idea how bad he is in the field. I'm not a scout.

My point is, the argument against it was because of his fielding. I don't think anybody doubted his hitting..at least I hope they didn't.

Oh well.. they didn't sign him, they didn't sign Abreu.. I'm sure they did their due diligence. The answer for slugger has to come from somewhere.

they've been rolling out Bobby Abreu into LF.. I don't think that defense is as big a priority as you may think.

good things:

- Conforto tearing it up in Brooklyn
- nobody calling Wheeler a bust anymore
- Lucas Duda helps Francesa look like more of an idiot

things are good

In comment 11781979 sshin05 said:

Quote:

In comment 11781973 arcarsenal said: Quote: A lot of people made it seem like he was an awful player, though. Anyway. Moving on. Huge K. Finish this off, Jenrry. Half of his games are at DH, and his defensive WAR is -0.9 on baseball reference.

Like feel said.. apparently we have no issue trotting an ancient Bobby Abreu out into LF often these days, so.. does it really make a difference? Lagares' range in CF also helps.

Look, the guy sucks in the field. We all know that. But to act like we wouldn't be a better baseball team right now with his bat in our lineup is silly.

But whatever, it's moot.

In comment 11781982 feelflows said:

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they've been rolling out Bobby Abreu into LF.. I don't think that defense is as big a priority as you may think.

Abreu starts like once a week at most, so let's not get carried way of comparing defenses. Look at Nelson fielding on fangraphs.com, its not pretty. Mets didnt sign Cruz, fine, he'll now cost heck of a lot more now that we are in an era of the pitcher. Power is now the premium and trading or signing one is gonna cost a lot. Orioles lucked out in this, do you think they are going to pay up now? Possibly, but i see the Yankees/Red Sox doing that more than anything.

it just goes to show..sometimes all of these fancy stats don't tell the whole story.

it would've been nice for management to say "fuck fielding stats" and got a slugger to fortify the lineup and given this team much needed balls.

it's not like it was a surprise. we ALL knew they needed a slugger to make a difference this year.

at some point Parnell will be back.
As it stands we have a really solid 8th and 9th inning with Familia and Mejia... Is he just another arm out of the 'pen?
Are they going to show him off as trade bait?

the orioles lucked out?

their management wanted more power for the lineup and signed a slugger.

he is what he is. a slugger. he's not a triple crown winner, a gold glove winner or a base stealer.

why does every player have to be a complete player?

I understand the contract he took... it's not CRUZ that pisses me off. It's the REASON they didn't get a slugger. It's cheaper to HOPE that Duda or Davis hits 35 HRs.

I have no clue lol

don't forget Leathersich.

Mejia
Familia
Black
Parnell
Leathersich
Edgin (need a lefty)


it could be a nasty pen

the Met they had the most irrational hate for recently.
Not sure why, Black gets the most irrational hate I've had for a Met since Jose Valentin and his lil douche-y mustache.

while I agree we need at least 1 lefty, I don't know how much I trust Edgin

eveland?

maybe there's another in the minors? I don't know.

I just question what we have. It isn't my job to figure out who to get ;)

In comment 11781995 feelflows said:

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the orioles lucked out? their management wanted more power for the lineup and signed a slugger. he is what he is. a slugger. he's not a triple crown winner, a gold glove winner or a base stealer. why does every player have to be a complete player? I understand the contract he took... it's not CRUZ that pisses me off. It's the REASON they didn't get a slugger. It's cheaper to HOPE that Duda or Davis hits 35 HRs.

I guess the Orioles lucked out in that people thought his power was artificially inflated when in fact it's the same as of last season (unless of course it is inflated by other means and hasn't been caught yet.)

June - ba 282 - OPS .956
July - ba .288 - OPS .996

It looks like we have our first baseman and clean up hitter.

to eat crow. With Duda it was a question in his mind if he belonged, his self confidence was the issue. Now that he knows it, he will relax and put up first baseman numbers for years

right now. Also im not sure his contract status, but i think Torres still has a spot in the pen. Edgin has been solid, but one more lefty wouldnt hurt. The core of the bullpen hopefully is Mejia, Familia, and black moving forward. The rest can be filled with kids from the minors and vet pickups id think.

Duda has been great which is awesome for us. It made me go look at Ike's numbers and it looks like he is still sucking.

Was wrong about duda. I wanted to ride ike out until he found his swing again. Ha.

from the 2nd WC.

Just sayin..

“The reports on him (Conforto) were adequate defensively, and we’re seeing way beyond that,” Gamboa said. “For a 21-year-old, he’s miles ahead of most guys I see come into professional baseball. That was his reputation coming here. That’s what we were told, except that he runs, throws and fields better than people gave him credit for. The focus was on his bat, but everybody is seeing a more complete player here.”

Let's keep the optimism with the kids going
Herrera article - ( New Window )

3rd in the NL in hitting for 1stbaseman only after Goldschmidt and Rizzo. 7th in baseball.

In comment 11782090 spike said:

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from the 2nd WC. Just sayin..

feel better if the team can at least get back to 500 in the first 10 days of august

is also known for his over the top hyperbole. Rosario "more talented than Hanley Ramirez" etc.

put that in context, since 1960 Hanley Ramirez is 16th in WAR at SS and unless you believe he's retiring tomorrow will retire as a top 10 SS of the last 60 or so years.

since 1960 is 2nd in wRC+ behind A-Rod, 3rd in wOBA behind A-Rod and Tulo.