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Schwartz: Linebackers becoming a Big Blue strength

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/27/2014 10:58 am
FYI.
Linebackers becoming a Big Blue strength - ( New Window )
I wouldn't call them a strength just yet.  
Klaatu : 7/27/2014 11:03 am : link
Right now, I'll settle for less of a weakness.
that's kinda like saying Israel and Hamas are becoming friends  
oipolloi : 7/27/2014 11:03 am : link
because they signed a truce

Giants LBers are still a weak unit. If Beason's injuries keep him off the field or reduce his effectiveness, the unit will be really bad imo. With a healthy Beason, they will be OK. But not a strength.
Could be a decent group. Beason clearly the key  
Jimmy Googs : 7/27/2014 11:14 am : link
to it all and good news is that he sounds like his recovery is doing very well.

McClain locking down another spot, and maybe a spark from the rookie Kennard creates a nice dynamic.

Williams and Paysinger are no longer young guys and should be more instinctive at this point too. I wish these guys could blitz better though.

Keeping Herzlich off the field probably helps.
This is gonna be a tough sell  
ghost718 : 7/27/2014 11:22 am : link
Maybe it would work if they changed the date on the article from 2014 to 1984.
KLaatu  
vince : 7/27/2014 11:24 am : link
Why do I get the feeling that you'd be happy if they just showed up?
a healthy trio of McClain-Beason-Kennard  
JonC : 7/27/2014 11:27 am : link
is a potentially strong unit, provided Kennard is able to win the spot.

The rest are backups in the NFL at this stage, though I do like Paysinger when he reads action properly and plays decisively.
I havea feeling Kennard  
eli4life : 7/27/2014 11:47 am : link
Will be really good in time Lord knows we are due to have one pan out
vince  
Klaatu : 7/27/2014 11:48 am : link
As much as I like what I've been hearing about Kennard and a healthy Williams, I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm until the bullets start flying.
If we can keep McClain and Beason on the field simultaneously  
djm : 7/27/2014 12:30 pm : link
For most of the season I think this group will be very solid, especially against the run. Tough linebackers... Beason is a huge key.
I hate to be the half glass empty guy but  
twostepgiants : 7/27/2014 12:32 pm : link
isnt Beason on the PUP and McClain was carted off already? both guys have had injuries in the past and is part of the questions about them.

are we really counting on a 5th round rookie LB? Tom coughlin still is the head coach right? He isnt exactly known for playing rookies. we are like a week into camp, not even a preseason game. Damontre dominated his first preseason game and barely took the field last year and we were basically eliminated half way through the year.

this piece, as much as i would like to believe it, seems like high school homerism at this point.
Kennard was not a standout at USC  
Phil in LA : 7/27/2014 12:36 pm : link
and Beason hasn't played yet.
Beason was LET GO  
COLT46 : 7/27/2014 12:52 pm : link
from Carolina. Our Linebacking corps has been so weak under Rease that it naturally makes Beason look like Superman. Mcclain was let go also. Now this guy is touting Pasinger and Williams as a " strength ", when they have been weaknesses these past years. It's no wonder a fifth round pick like Kennard looks like some kind of savior.
until they tackle and cover  
mdc1 : 7/27/2014 1:05 pm : link
somebody consistently, more offseason talk.
I still think there's a chance Williams turns out to be pretty good.  
arcarsenal : 7/27/2014 1:12 pm : link
.
RE: Beason was LET GO  
arcarsenal : 7/27/2014 1:13 pm : link
In comment 11782928 COLT46 said:
Quote:
from Carolina. Our Linebacking corps has been so weak under Rease that it naturally makes Beason look like Superman. Mcclain was let go also. Now this guy is touting Pasinger and Williams as a " strength ", when they have been weaknesses these past years. It's no wonder a fifth round pick like Kennard looks like some kind of savior.


We traded for Beason. Carolina didn't "LET GO" of him. We barely gave up anything to get him but he played well.

And who is Rease? And Pasinger?
RE: Beason was LET GO  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2014 1:18 pm : link
In comment 11782928 COLT46 said:
Quote:
from Carolina. Our Linebacking corps has been so weak under Rease that it naturally makes Beason look like Superman. Mcclain was let go also. Now this guy is touting Pasinger and Williams as a " strength ", when they have been weaknesses these past years. It's no wonder a fifth round pick like Kennard looks like some kind of savior.


So that isn't accurate. What really happened is we traded a late round pick for him after Carolina changed there scheme and moved him from the Mike position.
Uconn  
COLT46 : 7/27/2014 1:28 pm : link
Beason was worth a 7th round pick. For all intents and purposes he was let go. Carolina thought he was too injury prone also.
RE: I hate to be the half glass empty guy but  
Klaatu : 7/27/2014 1:36 pm : link
In comment 11782914 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
isnt Beason on the PUP and McClain was carted off already? both guys have had injuries in the past and is part of the questions about them.

are we really counting on a 5th round rookie LB? Tom coughlin still is the head coach right? He isnt exactly known for playing rookies. we are like a week into camp, not even a preseason game. Damontre dominated his first preseason game and barely took the field last year and we were basically eliminated half way through the year.

this piece, as much as i would like to believe it, seems like high school homerism at this point.


Beason is on track to be ready for the season opener. He might even play in a preseason game. McClain is fine, oh, and he's been impressed with the 5th round rookie.

Coughlin plays plenty of rookies, although they may not start at first. Moore nursed a shoulder injury all through last year, but by all accounts he's healthy and has been working hard this offseason. Go listen to what Cullen Jenkins said about him today.

The article may sound like homerism to you, and maybe it is, but your post smacks of snarky, unwarranted pessimism. I'll take homerism any day and twice on Sundays.
RE: Uconn  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2014 1:51 pm : link
In comment 11782953 COLT46 said:
Quote:
Beason was worth a 7th round pick. For all intents and purposes he was let go. Carolina thought he was too injury prone also.


He was no longer in their plans because they changed their system. Adding in the injury concerns and yes, we got him for almost nothing, but he wasn't let go. A pick is still a pick, and the gamble was always worth taking. He came it right away and stepped up last year, no reason to expect he won't do that again regardless of PT in camp or preseason. If anything it gives valuable PT to a fringe player and beef up the reserves.
lets not go crazy  
chris r : 7/27/2014 1:57 pm : link
Beason is solid, standing out in comparison to the shit we've marched out lately. McClain is decidedly average. Kennard hasn't played a game and is a 5th round pick.
Who's going crazy?  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2014 2:11 pm : link
Beason was very good last year for us. Regardless of who we played or who our other LBers were, he played very well.
Phil in LA  
geelabee : 7/27/2014 2:36 pm : link
Neither Clay Matthews or Steve Smith were Not standouts at USC either...in the case of Matthews he did not even start....how did it turn out?
calling them a strength is way premature  
bc4life : 7/27/2014 2:48 pm : link
Beason played very well last year. But he got hurt again.

McClain has the aptitude and the attitude, not so sure about the athleticism.

Williams - good re: pass unsure if he can upgrade his run defense.

Paysinger - He may be as good as he is going to get.

Kennard is a rookie and unproven.

Too much uncertainty and unproven ability. But there's hope.

Yeah this year's team might actually have  
BlueLou : 7/27/2014 2:53 pm : link
One linebacker capable of bumping Gary Reasons off the starting lb crew of the mid 80s. And no one close to as good as the other 3 starters back then, lol.

And the one really good one is on PUP.

THAT'S a sell, not a buy.
RE: Who's going crazy?  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/27/2014 2:58 pm : link
In comment 11782990 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Beason was very good last year for us. Regardless of who we played or who our other LBers were, he played very well.


Who's going crazy? Schwartz, who's saying the LB position is becoming a strength. If you don't think that's crazy, then I don't know what to tell you.
I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm  
David in LA : 7/27/2014 2:59 pm : link
but can't help myself from getting excited about all the buzz about Kennard.
I was referring to BBI  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2014 3:03 pm : link
...
I don't get it  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/27/2014 3:05 pm : link
I don't pay much attention during time of the year, but why is Kennard getting all of this hype? Because he's a starter on the depth chart? Look at the guys he's ahead of. He's pretty much the skinniest kid at fat camp right now. It's a really bad group.

I'm not trying to be negative, maybe I'm missing something. Has he been lighting up practices or something that I just don't know about?
AGF, your position is totally fair  
David in LA : 7/27/2014 3:11 pm : link
and it is a good question to ask why he's getting all of this hype. I'm more speaking about the specific clippings from the coaches, the way they are talking about him seems to show that he's standing out in the film sessions and all of the offseason activities. Lord knows that we haven't found a gem in the late rounds for quite some time.
AGF, come on, now. Don't you realize how lame that sounds?  
Klaatu : 7/27/2014 3:11 pm : link
Maybe if you paid more attention you'd understand why some of us are looking forward to seen Kennard in action.
I get needing to see it to believe it  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2014 3:16 pm : link
but what else can we do until the season starts? Poo pooing eveything is easy. I more than most take these reports with a grain of salt but I'm not going to act like I'm a professional and try to prove this this team wrong.

We haven't had hype at the LB position in years which leads me to believe some of these reports are legit. I'll remain hopeful and positive, no reason not to.
From Connor Hughes today  
David in LA : 7/27/2014 3:19 pm : link
J"ust throwing this out here, the hype on Kennard is 100% legitimately earned. Constant flashes 4-5x a practice"
RE: Phil in LA  
phillygiant : 7/27/2014 3:23 pm : link
In comment 11783016 geelabee said:
Quote:
Neither Clay Matthews or Steve Smith were Not standouts at USC either...in the case of Matthews he did not even start....how did it turn out?


Matthews did start as a senior

As for Smith not being a stand out at USC...I suggest you look up the numbers
I'm looking forward to see him in action as much as anybody  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/27/2014 3:26 pm : link
I didn't ask why people want to see him play. That much is obvious. I'm just genuinely curious why he's getting this type of hype. We go through every offseason where the rookies get praised; that isn't new. This is also a rare case where the rookie gets first team reps, but that can definitely be attributed to an incredibly weak group.

I know I'm coming off as glass half-empty, but I just wanted to know if people were excited from the coach's interviews or him making plays in practice. Apparently from that Connor tweet it's a mixture of both, which is great news. I hope the kid is an All Pro for the next decade. I just wasn't sure if this was media/coach hype or actual warranted making plays hype.
one reason for optimism  
bc4life : 7/27/2014 3:53 pm : link
Pete Carroll seemed to have a pretty good eye for talent. He's a PC guy right?
I'm afraid many of us will be disappointed in McClain  
Damon : 7/27/2014 4:15 pm : link
I don't see him as being any more than just a guy. He's not going to make big mistakes... But he doesn't make many plays either.
RE: Kennard was not a standout at USC  
giantgiantfan : 7/27/2014 5:03 pm : link
In comment 11782917 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
and Beason hasn't played yet.


No but he did produce his senior year "Deployed as an outside linebacker in defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast's 3-4 scheme in 2013, when he started all 14 games and had 60 tackles, 13.5 tackles for loss and nine sacks with four pass breakups."
That is really good production...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/27/2014 5:16 pm : link
thanks for posting that information.

Looking for a repeat of those numbers this year :)
AGF  
Klaatu : 7/27/2014 5:21 pm : link
He gets to the right spot quickly and blows people up when he gets there. His strength has been mentioned several times, and he's already shown the versatility he displayed in college. He's drawn praise from his coaches, and from Jameel McClain, who said that he normally doesn't talk about rookies like this, but Kennard has really impressed him. Sure, his competition is weak. So what? Shouldn't the idea be to upgrade from the Spencer Paysingers, Mark Herzlichs, and Keith Rivers' of the world?
Kenard absolutely  
aquidneck : 7/27/2014 5:31 pm : link
makes the bottom of the roster guys better than expected in May, and Beason's return gives the unit as a whole the chance to be better than average in the NFL. McClain takes over for the ex-Bengal, whats-his-name.

Kawika Mitchell, Boley, that fast kid from Detroit and Carlos Emmons(?-memory fading) are in some ways similar veteran LBs we've brought in and given a chance during Coughlin's tenure. Maybe not the most impressive group when you first look at it, but Boley and Mitchell both contributed to Super Bowl Runs.
I'll believe it when I see it...  
Dunedin81 : 7/27/2014 5:54 pm : link
whether it is injuries or underperformance, we've had some seemingly talented LB corps over the last several years that have sucked.
Now let me see....  
Doomster : 7/27/2014 6:19 pm : link
Beason is on PUP.....

JW hasn't made a play in 2 years...

Paysinger thinks he can play....

WE have not seen MCClain make one play in a Giant uniform....

A fifth round linebacker will start and be a wunderkind....

The linebackers are truly back.....

And to think I almost forgot Herzlich....

If only Deossie could play linebacker like he does long snapper....
Klaatu  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/27/2014 6:44 pm : link
Believe me, I want the kid to succeed as much as anybody. David in LA said it best, it's been too long since we hit on a late round gem. Couple that with the fact that we haven't had good LB play for far too long and this turns into any Giant fans wet dream.

I just wasn't sure if this was the beat reporters getting a hard on for Kennard because of what TC said of him, or if he was actually performing at a high level in camp. I haven't paid attention to the camp tweets as of late, but I do remember the media jumping hard on the bandwagon once TC gave him praise. As I've said though, from the Connor tweet it seems like the praise is warranted. Appreciate you giving your take on his performance thus far as well.

The idea should absolutely be to upgrade Paysinger, Herzlich, and Rivers. But at first glance I just don't think him surpassing them says all that much. In a perfect world all 3 of those guys should be special teamers.
Interesting  
manh george : 7/27/2014 7:09 pm : link
Not a single one of the naysayers appears to have actually read Schwartz's article closely enough to refute it effectively.

OF COURSE Williams and Paysinger were mediocre in college, or they wouldn't have been a late round pick and UDFA, respectively. OF COURSE Beason was just so-so at Carolina, or we wouldn't have gotten him for a seventh round pick. OF COURSE McClain comes over with questions attached to him. OF COURSE Kennard is a mid-round pick with lots to prove.

What Schwartz is saying is that based upon his observations in his role as a long-time football sportswriter and frequent critic of the Giants personnel:

1) Beason proved himself as the real deal; the idea the he looked good because everyone else was awful is utter nonsense;

2) McClain has looked strong enough in practices so far to be a full-time starter (he was back in one day after the foot injury--holy overreactions, Batman);

3) In HIS VIEW Paysinger and Williams are performing like solid, experienced professionals, with Paysinger having grown into a full-blown linebacker's body, which he didn't have when he joined the team;

4) IN HIS VIEW Kennard has had a very strong start to his first training camp; and

5) When you put all of that together, you have the makings of a strong aggregate LB squad for the first time in many years.

Don't agree? Fine. However "no they don't" doesn't come across as a strong, insightful rebuttal. Or even a rebuttal.
RE: Interesting  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/27/2014 7:20 pm : link
In comment 11783353 manh george said:
Quote:
Not a single one of the naysayers appears to have actually read Schwartz's article closely enough to refute it effectively.

OF COURSE Williams and Paysinger were mediocre in college, or they wouldn't have been a late round pick and UDFA, respectively. OF COURSE Beason was just so-so at Carolina, or we wouldn't have gotten him for a seventh round pick. OF COURSE McClain comes over with questions attached to him. OF COURSE Kennard is a mid-round pick with lots to prove.

What Schwartz is saying is that based upon his observations in his role as a long-time football sportswriter and frequent critic of the Giants personnel:

1) Beason proved himself as the real deal; the idea the he looked good because everyone else was awful is utter nonsense;

2) McClain has looked strong enough in practices so far to be a full-time starter (he was back in one day after the foot injury--holy overreactions, Batman);

3) In HIS VIEW Paysinger and Williams are performing like solid, experienced professionals, with Paysinger having grown into a full-blown linebacker's body, which he didn't have when he joined the team;

4) IN HIS VIEW Kennard has had a very strong start to his first training camp; and

5) When you put all of that together, you have the makings of a strong aggregate LB squad for the first time in many years.

Don't agree? Fine. However "no they don't" doesn't come across as a strong, insightful rebuttal. Or even a rebuttal.


Eh. I believe in a healthy Jacquian Williams. Always been a big fan of his, so I'll buy that. But as of now, McClain is a below average starter. The tape on McClain's performance last year is out there, and it ain't pretty. There's rumblings that he was battling injuries, but still. I won't comment on Kennard because I've literally never seen him play a snap of football in my life.

If Schwartz said something like "LB position no longer the weak link" I wouldn't care to argue that. But it's rather egregious to call this squad, at this point in time, a strength. It simply is not even close to a strength.

This comes off more as him trying to hit his quota for the week of dishing out articles rather than him genuinely believing this unit is a strength.
I'll settle for healthy  
trueblueinpw : 7/27/2014 9:02 pm : link
Kind of doubt our LBs all of the sudden became more talented. Staying healthy would sure help them lock down mediocre status. From there they can work on becoming a playmaking group.
with Beason sidelined and unlikely to get a rep in camp...  
Torrag : 7/27/2014 9:05 pm : link
calling this unit a strength is definitely seeing the glass half full at this point.
Beason is an excellent MLB  
twostepgiants : 7/27/2014 10:27 pm : link
When healthy.

Thats the big question on him.
It's not even "glass half full"  
Greg from LI : 7/28/2014 1:18 am : link
It's akin to looking at a nearly empty glass and calling it half full.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 7/28/2014 10:04 am : link
Beason needs to stay healthy.
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