NFT: Mets trade rumors

put me down for the opposite

In comment 11784479 steve in ky said:

Quote:

In comment 11784415 pjcas18 said: Quote: who you can't see contributing at the major league level there is ten F-Mart's, Lastings Milledges, Phil Humber (who wasn't awful, just not a top prospect), etc who don't make it. I'd trade prospects, none of them are can't miss, most won't reach their "potential" and many won't even make it to the majors. but their value is in their perceived value if you get what I mean, so it still needs to be a fair deal. The Mets robbed the twins, even though later on Carlos Gomez turned into a all-star and Humber thew a perfect game? but the trade wasn't viewed as lopsided at the time and the Mets even included Javy Guera and Kevin Mulvey who were top prospects who did nothing I hate to speak for anyone else but I am guessing his post was a little humor that was more thinking about the possibility of maybe Tulowitzki being another Mike Bordick trade than is was about Mora itself. At least that is how I took it to mean.

Whoops, i knew he was being facetious, but I also thought he was saying don't trade prospects because they don't think they will develop into major leaguers.

the Fergosi for Nolan Ryan debacle to remember before pulling the trigger

focus on LF and SS for the necessary lineup improvements needed for 2015.

LOL, yeah I mentioned the Juan Samuel for Dykstra & McDowell trade earlier as well.

In comment 11784476 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

in general I agree. Sox prospects tend to be hugely overrated. The Yankees used to have this as well, not so much anymore. If anything I think some of the Yankees guys get underrated a bit (maybe blowback from the past). I'm big on Bogaerts and Betts, I think Owens is pretty legit, Swihart too. Supposedly this Devers kid is legit but he's so far away.

I've watched Bogearts and he'll be a legit hitter, but he's not a SS, where he would have been special.

Jackie Bradley Jr looks like a 4th OFer - defensive replacement, not a top 100 prospect. Owens, Swihart, etc. I haven't seen much of.

Betts looks legit too.

I remember when Brandon Jacobs was the next big prospect (.880 OPS at 20), I don't think he's even in their system anymore (rule V maybe?).

Anyway, I agree with you.

Pat Zachary Doug Flynn Steve Henderson Dan Norman

I just threw up in my mouth

Some of these others sucked and you almost just laugh and shake your head, but that one was different on an entirely different level.

In comment 11784503 steve in ky said:

Quote:

Some of these others sucked and you almost just laugh and shake your head, but that one was different on an entirely different level.

I don't remember the Seaver trade, but he was 32 when he was traded.

Who did they get for him? Why did they trade him?

They traded him due to a contact dispute.

Here is a good read about the entire affair.


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 11784498 steve in ky said:

Quote:

LOL, yeah I mentioned the Juan Samuel for Dykstra & McDowell trade earlier as well.

One of the saddest days of my life.

opening day in 83 when Tom Seaver returned home. I had to just park on the shoulder grass of the Grand Central Parkway and walk the rest of the way just in order to get to the stadium to see the opening pitch. I wasn't going to miss it (grin)

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m
#Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

In comment 11784634 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m #Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

I'm not in the dump Colon camp -- I think he'll have more value this offseason, when (1) he'll only have 1 year left, (2) 20+ teams will need starters, and (3) teams will need innings eaters rather than projected playoff 1-3 SPs. Hell, the right time to trade him could be May -- 2/3 of a season left, some team wont want a long term commitment and the Mets may be waiting on Thor's super 2 status.

But the notion that anything material is going to change in the next 3 days is a bit silly. MLB.com has us at 2.5% odds to make the playoffs. In the next 3 days we're not getting anywhere better than about 1 in 7-8 chances to make the playoffs. best case.

In comment 11784634 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m #Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

I'd move Colon ONLY if Syndergaard is ready for the Majors. Maybe in the offseason.

Nothing more than a joke related to the putrid Bordick deal made pre deadline in 2000. I wasn't intimating Tulo would be the next Bordick - far from it. That said, I wouldn't trade for Tulo based on injury issues and likely asking price. Moot point anyway because it's never going to happen.

So once again, they are hesitant to make a move due to fan perception. But they amazingly have zero pulse of their own fans. What can can't understand "we have so much young pitching that we couldn't pass up on trading Colon"??

Worry about building a sustained winner. Trading colon furthers that. You're worried about fan perception? Dump Colon and immediately acquire a seeviceAble SS and/or LF while waiving CY. Is it that hard? No, so then the bullshit "fan perception" excuse is used...

Or Sandy is trying to act not interesting in order to drive up the trade value. Sandy has a pretty good track record during his Mets tenure trading away older talent fro younger chips I would trust he is always willing to listen to a good deal.

should have nothing to do with Syndergaard.

It should have to do with the return. If the Mets can get a SS or LF for Colon you trade him a heartbeat.

With Harvey back and projecting Thor in the rotation the Mets have a surplus of pitching.

deGrom has made trading Colon a must, whether Thor is ready or not.

Harvey
Wheeler
Niese
Gee
deGrom
Thor
and ?? Montero, Hefner, etc.

The Mets have options, Colon should be used to improve the team in other areas.

What happens when Parnell comes back? does Mejia become a starter? Keep his closer job? Move Familia into the rotation?

The Mets should use Colon like the asset he is.

In comment 11784676 Shecky said:

Quote:

So once again, they are hesitant to make a move due to fan perception. But they amazingly have zero pulse of their own fans. What can can't understand "we have so much young pitching that we couldn't pass up on trading Colon"?? Worry about building a sustained winner. Trading colon furthers that. You're worried about fan perception? Dump Colon and immediately acquire a seeviceAble SS and/or LF while waiving CY. Is it that hard? No, so then the bullshit "fan perception" excuse is used...

I wouldn't take any quotes that strengthen Alderson's negotiating position at face value. There were a lot of similar comments about wanting to keep Dickey when the reality was they were just waiting for their price. The same is true of Colon. He will get traded now or in the offseason and he will not be on the team next year. The only thing holding that up is another team agreeing to Sandy's price. If a team agreed to give him the players he wanted Sandy would walk on the field and pull Colon himself if he had to.

Don't play chicken. Someone is willing to take him, move him. Move him saves an additional &3mm plus the $11mm next year. If they moved him earlier when they could have - they'd have an asset plus saved another $1.5mm

why not play this out to see if they can get something good?

The may regret passing on the pitchers the Giants gave up for Peavy, but it's somewhat understandable considering they already have a log jam for next year.

I'd imagine that Sandy is holding out for someone who can play SS or LF, and there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to panic right now. If Colon continues pitching well and stays healthy there's no doubt he'll have value in the offseason on a 1 year deal.

We are all guessing what the front office is thinking, planning, or will eventually try to do. BUT. This quote screams at me that they are missing the least amount of creativity. So someone wants your prospects, but you don't want to give them up. A third team wants to trade you some prospects, that your not too excited about adding more of. Ummmmmm, you ARE allowed to make a three way trade. Not easy. But don't talk like it's not possible...

�Anybody who�s offering us a potential upgrade on our current roster is looking at our young pitching. Those interested in our veteran players, they�re offering prospects,� said Alderson before the Mets faced Philadelphia Monday starting a seven-game homestand. �We�re in that position where we don�t want to give up prospects, but we�re not anxious to trade for guys that can�t help us nearer term."

In comment 11784770 Shecky said:

Quote:

Ummmmmm, you ARE allowed to make a three way trade. Not easy. But don't talk like it's not possible...

I think you're reading too much into this. He's not saying they wont do a 3 way, though you'd have to concede that they are rare. He's saying what we all know -- the trades available are present for future trades. Most trades are of this variety, especially near the deadline, when there are teams going for it and teams planning for next year/beyond. You see more MLBer for MLBer stuff in the offseason.

Sandy is saying he isnt a buyer or seller, and that's essentially what is on the table for deals right now.

is if the money saved on Colon now (rest of the season contract) would give him extra money to spend for next year. In that instance not trading him for the best offer would be a mistake since it's likely inevitable anyway and it's unlikely the return is ever higher than right now.

If keeping him and making other moves isn't outside of their budget then what the hell. I'd rather not dump him for nothing as he's a legitimate 15 game winner and he's a positive guy in the clubhouse by all indications.

The team has said they don't expect to make a deadline deal. Same comment from every deadline, year after year. And it's always because they don't want to send the wrong message to the fans.
Which year did the Mets not say 'we don't expect to make a trade, it sends the wrong message to the fans?"
Which year did the team surprise us and make a trade?
Which of the following players were traded before the 7/31 deadline?
Reyes
Hairston
Parnell
Capuano
Hawkins
Byrd
Colon

pessimistic long-term view on Colon, but I think we should 100% try and trade him to any team that will eat the entire salary. I think that he's going to run out of gas soon and once he gets rocked a few times we're going to be on the hook for $11M next year and have no place in the rotation for him.

Also, Syndergaard looks close to ready and I think it'd be good for the organization to get him out of Vegas/PCL asap, and get him some MLB experience this year.

Assuming the cost prospect wise is significantly cheaper I think that makes a lot of sense. His contract is reasonable and not too long (similar to Grandersons) and he has upside. Good fielder and would add another really solid professional bat to the lineup. He's not a huge power guy so leaving Coors shouldn't devastate his hitting profile. His biggest negative is the same as TT which is the injuries, but if he didn't have that negative he wouldn't be available so it is what it is. The shorter remaining deal minimizes that somewhat.
Mets leaning towards Carlos Gonzalez - ( New Window )

greatly lessens his trade value. Contending teams want him NOW, but do not want to commit to next year. There is value in moving Colon just for the sake of moving him. Free up a decent chunk of salary for next year, and free up a roster spot for one of the young pitchers.

Colon isn't in the team's long term plans, keeping him would necessitate his taking a roster spot, when a Syndegaard or Montero will be ready to move up. Move him to any team that is willing to take on his salary, and don't look back. There WILL NOT be a starting caliber LF or SS coming back, but that's fine.

In comment 11785142 Section331 said:

Quote:

greatly lessens his trade value. Contending teams want him NOW, but do not want to commit to next year. There is value in moving Colon just for the sake of moving him. Free up a decent chunk of salary for next year, and free up a roster spot for one of the young pitchers. Colon isn't in the team's long term plans, keeping him would necessitate his taking a roster spot, when a Syndegaard or Montero will be ready to move up. Move him to any team that is willing to take on his salary, and don't look back. There WILL NOT be a starting caliber LF or SS coming back, but that's fine.

Totally agree with this.

Similar- Alomar "quick decline", @Buster_ESPN has blurb where scouts discuss "surprising" decline of athleticism for A. Cabrera at 28 #mets

does not lessen his value.

When you have guys like Dan Haren making 10M on contenders, Colon at that price is fine.

in fact it might be viewed a bargain if he keeps pitching like he's been pitching.

I don't think 10m is that much of a burden. He's having a good year.

Fielding-indy 3.41.

Let's us keep syndergarden in the minors until after the super 2 without looking extra "sketchy" which has a likely large financial implication down the road if he pans out.

(I agree that is a bargain in today's market), but it's committing to 41-yr old for another year. I think teams would prefer to commit to him for help this year, without having to guarantee him a roster spot for next.

Colon is a top 30 pitcher each of the last 3 years, and cumulatively. He is a tremendous value as a vet, on a short term deal. Any contender wants him not only for this years stretch run, will continue to want him for next years race. Colon the pitcher is greatly undervalued.

Which is why his $11mm is overstated. The problem is, his dollars equal his on field results. Meaning he is on a very fair contract. To not eat salary and move a fair valued player and expect a starting SS or LF, from a team in contention, is not realistic. The only way you get a starter out of this is a three wAy that includes prospect to the third team.

ERA is about avg. for the NL and he pitches half his games at Citi Field which is a pitchers park. He'll be 42 next year and is guaranteed $11M. I'm not surprised that the reports seem to indicate that there's only lukewarm interest in him.

I'm a believer in selling high on guys, and I think Colon's trade value might be at its max right now. This guy has faded down the stretch the past few years (if I remember correctly, he didn't make Oakland's playoff rotation last year despite his great 2013).

If we were weak in starting pitching, I'd say "let's consider holding onto this guy", but for 2015, we have Niese, Gee, DeGrom, Wheeler and Harvey, none of whom are candidates to go to AAA or the pen. We also have Syndergaard and Montero who should be ready to pitch in MLB in 2015. My thinking is does it really make sense for us to allocate $11M to a 42 year old starting pitcher when we have a huge hole at OF and SS and more than 5 viable SP options even without Colon?

the offseason is a possibility, but it's a game of chicken. We've seen him fade down the stretch in prior years, and his condition isn't exactly good. If he has a bad 6 weeks or so to end the year, we're going to be on the hook for that $11M, and not really have an opening in the rotation to use him.

I say, let's trade him now and get that $11M off the hook. If we can add a prospect too, even better. Of course, I think MLB GMs see the downside with Colon and he might not be easy to move.

Collins really needs to play him more. Perhaps give him a start here and there and 2b and 3b to give Murphy and Wright a day off.

In comment 11785709 Kevin999 said:

Quote:

Collins really needs to play him more. Perhaps give him a start here and there and 2b and 3b to give Murphy and Wright a day off.

Time for him to show something at this level again

does need to play him more, but he also needs to put a big day together here and make it harder for Collins to sit him.

wow

How can he figure out if he is going to be the shortstop if he never plays him?
Collins on Flores - ( New Window )

.

but the reason they are asked, anyone that watches or writes about the team wants to know WTF is going through Collins pea brain

I defend TC as much as possible he sounds like a moron here.


Reporter: "When you take a look at Wilmer Flores, when he was up here in May, when he played in five consecutive games, he hit. When he plays every other game he doesn't hit. Is now the time to see what Flores can do on an everyday basis?"

Collins: "It all depends where you're going to play him."

Reporter: "You don't have confidence in him at shortstop?"

Collins: "No, no. I didn't say that. The other kid [Tejada] is playing pretty good. I don't know what games you've been watching, but we've been playing pretty good lately."

Reporter: "He's 3-for-29."

Collins: "We're playing pretty good lately. You know, Ike Davis wasn't hitting and we were winning games. So you pick and choose your spots. Wilmer came up because Ruben got beaned, so we were concerned about having a backup. So that's why he's here. There were no instructions to play him everyday. We're going to try to get him at-bats. That's why he's in there today."

Reporter: "What do you need to see from him to keep him in the lineup everyday?"

Collins: "Nothing from him. We've got to figure out if he is going to be the shortstop, or if the other guy is going to be the shortstop."

Thanks for the link. Those comments are mind boggling. Tejadas 3/29 and the team just went 8 straight scoring 3 or less. Yet his defense is they are playing well.

actively watch the games as my disdain for the owners.

I feel bad for the players on this team who put forth the effort. They deserve better.

So since we were winning at the time, Ike Davis was a great player and should not have been traded? I guess Tejada could strike out 32 times in a row, but if the mets go 10-0 it justifies him playing.