NFT: Mets trade rumors

except Syndergaard's name was mentioned in the article. I'm sure they have something on the table and the Rockies are refusing to trade him at all.

cost a ton more than Thor. Likely TDA or Plawecki + Niese and likely more.

Michael Conforto, OF, Mets (Short-season A Brooklyn)
Conforto is a man among boys in the New York-Penn League, as his polished game and field utility make him look like a major leaguer playing a pickup game in the park against weekend softball warriors. The fact that he stands out is both good and bad; the former is great for the Mets, as they clearly drafted a player of merit, but the latter is bad for scouting, as it's hard to get an accurate picture of the player when he is facing highly erratic talent that doesn�t offer much of a challenge. I like the swing, as it's fluid and easy, and the ball jumps off the bat with some volume. I like the raw, although I�d peg the power in the solid-average range rather than a middle-of-the-lineup masher with a plus or better distinction. The defense in left field has been fine, as he shows off athleticism and an accurate arm. He isn�t a burner but he runs well enough for the position and while on base, and he carries himself like a player who not only knows the game of baseball from a fundamental level but brings those skills to the field on all fronts. But it's difficult in this particular context to see how bright his star will really shine, and based on a limited three game sample, I�d say the profile will be more solid-average than star. �Jason Parks

Quote:

Tulo is currently on the disabled list anyway with a left hip flexor strain. He flew to Philadelphia this weekend to meet with a sports hernia surgeon

You only have so many trading chips. I am not sold on using them on this guy. You have the injury issue and then you add how dramatically his numbers drop away from Colorado and I don't think he is worth the gamble of giving up too much for.

is Thor, Niese, TdA and more (what is more? Herrera? Montero)?

I wouldn't do it.

Sure you're better at SS and have a middle of the order bat, but what happens if Harvey doesn't come back strong from TJ?

basically the Mets are a worse team after that trade.

I'd look at one of the Rangers shortstops for a fraction of that offer.

not promising.

he's a 30 year old SS with leg issues who's due $20 million per year for 6 years after this!

I know we all want that kind of bat, but no you can't do this. it's the kind of contract the Yankees take on, not the Mets.

is owed 118 million through 2021

I find it funny people are reacting to Wright saying he would love him added. Wouldn't Wright likely say he would "love" Omar Infante? I mean isn't that Wright's whole MO? (not knocking Wright).

I would not trade 3 good prospects for a player who seemed to be injured every year and now going into his 30's.

said winning was his #1 priority, more important than money, yet here he is on the Mets knowing it's unlikely they win.

So, yeah, Wright would say he loved whoever they asked him about.

HR RBI BA OBP SLG OPS

99 349 .323 .397 .565 .962
77 255 .274 .349 .469 .818

He is injury prone and not that productive outside Coors. He would be a perfect example of a deal gone wrong......

Thor, one of Niese/Gee and Plawecki (not TDA). I realize CO will likely say no to that, but I'm not sure that paying much more than that is in the Mets' best long term interest. If we could throw in Flores and Nimmo and also get CarGo, I'd do that too.

not advocating giving up the moon for Tulo but his splits actually suggest his salary is more than fair (the years are the issue).

Career road wRC+ of 118 would be good for 3rd amongst SS's overall

and his 354 wOBA would be good for 3rd and MOST players hit better at home (obviously Coors inflates that) but it's pretty safe to say he's either the best or 2nd best offensive SS in baseball and a great fielder. Coors makes him "greater" but he's still pretty great.

in some $ if we indeed are giving up 3 or 4 prospects?

the downside is that he's hurt right now and has missed 30% of his games during his prime 25-29 years (and another 61 at age 23). It seems like you can count on him to miss 40 games, if not more. It's actually a lot of broken bones (arm, ribs) that has been sidelining him, plus a 2012 groin surgery, but in any event he really seems injury prone. Second, is the obvious cost in prospects -- Sydergaard+ is a big haul. Not sure what a comparable trade is, since superstars are rarely traded with term left, but you often dont see teams trading their top prospect. Though see the recent CHI-OAK deal.

Third, is the problem of projectability beyond going forward. Obviously, you pay for future expected contributions and not past performance. How much longer is Tulo a SS, and if he moves off of SS where does he go with DW at 3B? How does he age as a hitter, and what is his production as a non-Rockie? Not many examples beyond Matt Holliday.

On the flipside of course is the possibility that he massively upgrades our two black hole positions for the next 5 years and, with Wright, anchors the batting order. What was a terrible 2013 lineup could, optimistically, center around a core of Tulo, Wright and Duda hitting well over .800, with Grandy giving high .700 for a few seasons, TDA in high .700s or even low .800s, Murphy in the .700s and maybe some luck at LF while Nimmo and Conforto develop for 2016-17. That's a damn good lineup to pair with a big-arm rotation of Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Niese, and Matz/Gee etc. plus an emerging 8th-9th combo of Mejia-Familia. You would expect that team to be in it for one of the playoff spots.

Pointing to his away numbers, but even those numbers are light years better than what we've had at SS in the Mets entire history.

The contract is big, but outside of Wright and Colon's (expiring next year) contracts, we really dont have any huge contracts to worry about.

actually almost certainly gets a bigger deal than he is owed if he were an impending FA, the caveat is that a team signing him wouldn't be giving up a massive talent price which obviously reduces his "value". But if Tulo is a FA this upcoming season he likely gets something closer to 8-10 years at 20+, "advanced" age and all.

For a superstar shortstop. He would be a tremendous upgrade for that lineup.

he's getting a deal comparable to Cano.

I have no idea who else in baseball that has a realistic chance of being traded would excite you. Outside of Stanton, who else is out there that giving up 4 top prospects would make a Mets fan happy?

In comment 11783859 gmen9892 said:

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The contract is big, but outside of Wright and Colon's (expiring next year) contracts, we really dont have any huge contracts to worry about.

+Grandy, +Murphy getting approx what Colon is making, +hopefully some investment in LF. But I agree with the point -- our payroll and longterm commitments are under control. If you ignore ownership siphoning money away, I'd have little doubt that we could spend in the 8-10 (TEX, WAS, TOR) of $135 million, and if we were winning I'd see no reason why we couldnt spend in the low 160s like #5 DET and #4 BOS (or 180 like #3 PHIL). Mets own the majority of SNY, and have the 3rd highest ratings in baseball after years of suck and fan revolt.

absolutely. People get squeamish over the years these guys get (and I get that 100%) but his contract is actually below market value by a significant margin (as crazy as that sounds). As I said, the huge talent you have to give up obviously off-sets much of that "savings". Gun to my head I pull the trigger on a Tulo deal IF payroll is going up to at least 115-120. If payroll is staying stagnant or only going up a bit it just doesn't work at all.

Mets realistically can't be very good while adding Tulo given their commitments/soon commitments without at least a decent payroll increase. Wright, Tulo, Granderson alone = 56 million, their current payroll is 85.

And move granderson in a separate deal if money was an issue.

Not to say his away numbers are horrible or anything but simply pointing out that his numbers will obviously be lower at Citi field. As I also mentioned in my first post the real worry is the injury issue, IMO I think it makes it too risky to give up too many big trading chips for.

The Mets are close to taking the next step and putting Tulo behind Wright makes them so much better. I'd do it if I'm the Mets, they have so many good young arms.

I wasn't trying to disagree with you. Sorry if that's the impression you got. I just was trying to give the comparison of what "only" his road numbers vs. other SS's "overall" numbers look like.

would be too much IMO. Neither has a good track record of health, and you're betting on two Rockies hitters. No reason to go all in on one trade.

As for the package, not sure how there can be a report that Mets are willing to trade Thor. Says who? Mets called up and said "take Thor -- what else you want?". That's not how trades really work. In the initial stages, at most you offer the guys you'd easily give up, and maybe suggest that the better guys could be traded when you're asked about them. I'm not sure the package will need to be at the level suggested above -- Thor, TDA, Neise. In fact, I'd be really surprised if the return for Tulo was 2 MLBers and a MLB-ready top 20 SP prospect. Typically in a big trade, the "rebuilding team" doesnt get MLB ready talent for the simple reason that the other team is in win-now mode. Trading Neise and TDA would just open a hole at C and divest our only 2014-15 LH-SP. Blech

For comparison purposes, does anyone have his career Citi field numbers? All he ever seems to do is rake everytime he comes to town.

this guy is on the wrong side of 30 and his contract is costly.

Keep our prospects.

vs other SS's road numbers. Not his road numbers vs other SS's home numbers. That's an apples to oranges comparison. 90% of MLB players perform better at home. I do agree that his home stats are somewhat inflated being in Coors, but if you split his home and road numbers in half, they are still fantastic and would make him the best SS in the game.

that would make the Mets a legit contender agian

not aimed at anyone on this thread but people tend to unfairly only take road numbers and go "look!", but MOST players hit better at home/worse on the road (some significantly so even guys who play in pitchers parks). I'm not even saying Tulo for a huge package is a no-brainer but his injury stuff concerns me WAY more than his splits. In fact, if he were a healthy player the splits would concern me exactly 0%.

I can see Flores as a throwin. I just see it coming, and it pisses me off. You just know he will become an All-Star SS with some other team who will give him a legit chance. He'll hit 280+, 15+ hrs, 75+ RBIs w/adequate defense.

He's going to be 30 in October and he's ALWAYS hurt. If he's constantly getting hurt in his 20s, how is he going to hold up when he's in his 30s?

If the Coupons sold the team and the payroll went up to $160 million I would be more likely to make the trade even considering his injury history but the Mets can't add another $20 million dollar player without significantly increasing payroll.

There are worse players making quite a bit more than Tulo. His contract is actually a bargain relative to his ability. If he were to hit the market right now he'd get a lot more than he's making.

If the cost is astronomical, I'd be wary of it.. obviously. But it all depends on that.

I feel like Tulo has some concerns.

CarGo's splits would be a bit concerning to me. Tulo's are not at all.

a reasonable trade for Tulo, but reasonable is the key.

I'd much prefer the Bluejays tank and the Mets trade Gee Flores, and Plawecki for Reyes.

or a similar deal (if it's even realistic; if not slightly better) to the Rangers for Andrus or Profar

In comment 11783922 BobA said:

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I can see Flores as a throwin. I just see it coming, and it pisses me off. You just know he will become an All-Star SS with some other team who will give him a legit chance. He'll hit 280+, 15+ hrs, 75+ RBIs w/adequate defense.

They have to play Flores the rest of the season at SS to see what they have in him. We know what we have in Tejada and it is very average at best

the "Mets curse" for a second... I'd be willing to wager a whole lot of money that Tulo (if healthy) would be an all-star playing half his game at CitiField. It's the "if healthy" that would be the MASSIVE ??.

really buries the purported news that the Mets will trade Thor for Tulo. About 1000 words into a wide ranging piece about all sorts of different trades, and after addressing Lester and Price, Passan says:

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The St. Louis Cardinals expressed significant interest in him last offseason. They continue to reach out to the Rockies, as have the New York Mets, who are prepared to offer top pitching prospect Noah Syndergaard in a deal for 29-year-old. And the response is: Not yet. We�re not ready to deal him. We want to hear it from him.

Not sure I'd take this as news reporting. If the Mets had offered Thor+ for Tulo, that would be worthy of its own article, not a buried aside in a columnist's bloviating state of the market piece.

scares me more than the prospects (and I agree the money is reasonable (or better) though I didn't think so at first)

Tulos health concerns are probably similar to Reyes's when many fans didn't want to pay him.

In comment 11783901 DanMetroMan said:

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I wasn't trying to disagree with you. Sorry if that's the impression you got. I just was trying to give the comparison of what "only" his road numbers vs. other SS's "overall" numbers look like.

No problem and if I knew he would be healthy I would be for it. The Mets just seem to have such horrible luck sometimes(think the Juan Samuel trade), that if they make this trade I can easily see it working out where he is always half injured and never the same player he once was.

I guess after years of watching big name trades or free agent signings going badly I'm just gun shy and leery of red flags like this:

Quote:

Tulo is currently on the disabled list anyway with a left hip flexor strain. He flew to Philadelphia this weekend to meet with a sports hernia surgeon

or the home away splits, its the injury history that scares me. Throw in we are rumored to be trading our only left handed started, our top pitching prospect, a good young catcher plus more.... Its a major risk. You are betting he stays healthy, and usually players who have a history of injuries do not suddenly stay healthy once they past the age of 30. It usually gets worse.

In comment 11783938 pjcas18 said:

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scares me more than the prospects (and I agree the money is reasonable (or better) though I didn't think so at first) Tulos health concerns are probably similar to Reyes's when many fans didn't want to pay him.

That's' where I'm at also, the injuries worry me. You only have so many trading chips and while right now the Mets have plenty one bad trade and they lose that advantage.

and keep costs down?

I would love to see is the Mets find a Dickerson type BEFORE the breakout. Obviously it's easier said than done but imagine how much less Dickerson would have cost before the year?

I hate the Wilpons even more. We should have simply signed Reyes.

is older, but he's having that kind of year.

Surpassed my expectations so far.

And that turd Ike Davis is traded for a decent prospect, win-win-win, triple win.

In comment 11783966 weeg in the bronx said:

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I hate the Wilpons even more. We should have simply signed Reyes.

Nah, should have traded Reyes.

Between the two, I'd much rather have Tulo.

I didn't mean we never get breakouts. I meant it would be awesome to add a guy like that over one of the other OF's we currently have.

I genuinely believe he will return a lot less than people expect because of his contract & injuries. He's an excellent player, having an excellent season, but his value is not anywhere near that of Stanton (which would be a stratospheric deal that would cost 2-3 blue chip pieces and only a handful of teams even have the capability of making).

My prediction would be:
1 blue chip piece (Thor)
1-2 solid top 100 or former (Plawecki, Herrera, Flores)
1-2 more spare parts prospects (Reynolds, MDD, Leathersitch)

Personally I'd do that deal without blinking tomorrow.

DMM.

Would be nice.

Trading would have made me happy too. I never understood that one.
That said, Reyes was a proven commodity playing in NY, and was the major spark in our offense, which is now abyssmal. Plus he not as injury prone as this guy and it would have been a better contract - the current reyes deal expires sooner and was for less money.
No matter how you look at it, Wilpons kill me!!!

(101 Games)
2008 - Tore a tendon in his left quad making a play at shortstop.
-Cut his right hand when he broke a bat in frustration, required 16 stitches

(122 Games)
2010- Fractured wrist when he was hit by a pitch from Alex Burnett

(47 Games)
2012 - Groin tear

(Went on 15-Day DL last week)
2014 - Hip flexor strain -- he's getting it looked at by the same guy who did his sports hernia surgery in 2012. However, it's not thought to be another hernia-related injury.

I would much rather they went all in for Stanton then use some of those chips trading for Tulowitzki.

as one of the ignorant fans not anxious, ready and willing to give up young high level pitching talent for a consistently injured shortstop who makes too much money. I don't know how it's "market value" to pay a 30 year old with one 100 RBI season $20 million for 5 years more, with a couple dozen more mil on top of that when he's 35. I don't mind being considered ignorant on this. I just pray they don't trade Thor for him. That's all I will say.

what do you think the return for Castro would be?

You'd have to think Syndergaard/DeGrom are off the table for that trade.

I can see them going after Castro MUCH more than Tulo... younger, more affordable, less to give up.

Then they will maybe go after that Cuban OF, although from what I hear he doesn't have much pop?

but not signing him was a good move, not a bad one. Everyone adores their WAR stat...Jose Reyes has been a 2 WAR player. Gets paid $22 million. That is an atrocious contract.

you missed Tulo's 2011 and 2013 injuries.

In comment 11784011 SethFromAstoria said:

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but not signing him was a good move, not a bad one. Everyone adores their WAR stat...Jose Reyes has been a 2 WAR player. Gets paid $22 million. That is an atrocious contract.

You

You need to recheck that math. He was a 2.9 WAR player in Miami. Last year he was 2.3 WAR, but due to injury he only played 93 games. This year he's already good for 2.1 WAR in 89 games.

Reyes also wasn't getting paid 22M each year. Next year is the first year he starts getting that. He's getting 16 now and got 10 the 2 years prior.

That was from BR. Fangraphs has him at 4 WAR in Miami, and 2.1 and 1.7 in two partial TOR seasons.

get paid way way way way way too much doesn't mean that the market value should be what they get paid. It means they got stupid contracts. Logically, no Met fan should want the team to hand out a ridiculous contract to nearly any player. And first and foremost on the list of reasons to avoid a certain player on a contract like that is injury history. The horribly cheap Mets have spent what...a billion dollars on players who didn't even take the field much of the time?

(126 Games) 2013 - A broken rib sustained when he dove making a play at shortstop.

(143 Games) 2011 - Played with a sore quad muscle

I mentioned this the other day. A huge factor in his road splits are his divisional games. He goes on the road to pitcher parks and pitching friendly teams. LA. SD. SF. Every rockie should have better home vs road splits.

has (predictably) been injured.

he's heating up lately and his impact is felt.

Acquiring Reyes wouldn't cost nearly what Tulo, one of the Cubs prospects, or even one of the Rangers would cost.

It's a low risk transaction IMO.

SS, LF two biggest obstacles from the Mets being contenders IMO.

In comment 11784019 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 11784011 SethFromAstoria said: Quote: but not signing him was a good move, not a bad one. Everyone adores their WAR stat...Jose Reyes has been a 2 WAR player. Gets paid $22 million. That is an atrocious contract. You You need to recheck that math. He was a 2.9 WAR player in Miami. Last year he was 2.3 WAR, but due to injury he only played 93 games. This year he's already good for 2.1 WAR in 89 games.

K I will check the math 1000 times. That deal he got is a brutal payout for that player and the teams he has played for after playing in NYC have paid for his performance at age 23 or 24 when he was here. Enjoy that. Would I like Reyes on the Mets? Sure. Would I want his current self at 20+ million? Not a chance. Again...Happily ignorant if that's what you'd call me. Happily.

didn't re-sign Reyes. I thought that was a lot of money for a player with his injury history. I would have liked for them to pay him sooner than necessary, you know, lock him up through his prime with some hometown discount type deal, but they didn't.

I do wish they would have traded him.

Acquiring Reyes now, assuming the Blue Jays shit the bed, is very different. I'd expect Toronto to eat some of that contract and the prospects sent back wouldn't be crazy.

I'd send Montero and Flores to Toronto for Reyes with the Jays eating 25M, making Reyes a $15M per year SS.

If Stephen Drew turned down 14.1M, I have to believe even with the injuries Reyes is worth that.

If Stanton or Goldshmidt were obtainable, I'd spend the trade chips and them and spend the money on Andrus. Perfect fit if you have a bopper.

Market value is what it is. Of course it's inflated. But there's no way around it. You can't just pay players less than market value and expect them to accept that. If you want big time players, there's really no way around paying them. The only way around that is to have young players on rookie deals vastly outperforming what they're making. And we do have a few of those guys.

But if we want to acquire a big bat, we're going to have to pay that guy one way or another.

Tulo needs to agree to come to the Mets and so it's up to the players like Wright to recruit. The Mets have the players to get him, it's just not only injury history, but his desire to play for a winning team.

like only the mets would be silly enough to pull the trigger and overpay for a guy whos on the wrong side of 30, large contract with suspect numbers away from Coors Field, and has been injury prone...

why god why

In comment 11784081 whobetta said:

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like only the mets would be silly enough to pull the trigger and overpay for a guy whos on the wrong side of 30, large contract with suspect numbers away from Coors Field, and has been injury prone... why god why

why god why would the mets want to acquire one of the best players in baseball? why?!

In comment 11784064 sshin05 said:

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Tulo needs to agree to come to the Mets and so it's up to the players like Wright to recruit. The Mets have the players to get him, it's just not only injury history, but his desire to play for a winning team.

Tulowitzki does not have a no trade clause. He doesn't even want to be a Met and if he's traded to them too bad.

unless I'm reading it wrong, Tulo doesn't have a "first' no trade, he can be traded once without his consent.


0 years/$157.75M (2011-20), plus 2021 club option

signed extension with Colorado 11/30/10, replacing final 3 years and option in previous contract
11:$5.5M, 12:$8.25M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15-19:$20M annually, 20:$14M, 21:$15M club option ($4M buyout)
salaries for 2020 and 2021 may increase by $6M annually based on MVP votes, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers or All-Star selections
award bonuses, including $25,000 each for Gold Glove, All Star selection
$2M assignment bonus if traded
may be traded only once during contract

Dickerson would be a solid move.

The player I have some interest in is AJ Pollock from Arizona.

Former 1st rd pick form 09, and Was hitting .316 with 6 HR's before breaking his hand 2 months ago

I don't think the Mets could land Dickerson for a reasonable price now. He's basically worth his weight in gold, what I meant was... pre-2014 Dickerson likely would have been attainable for very little (or at the very least something like a second tier P prospect or 2), gotta identify guys like that BEFORE they breakout. Pollack is another solid young OF.

In comment 11784090 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 11784064 sshin05 said: Quote: Tulo needs to agree to come to the Mets and so it's up to the players like Wright to recruit. The Mets have the players to get him, it's just not only injury history, but his desire to play for a winning team. Tulowitzki does not have a no trade clause. He doesn't even want to be a Met and if he's traded to them too bad.

Didnt realize he had did not have a no-trade clause.

29 he is.

They should be making contenders overpay for their guys, not overpaying for somebody else's guys.

since his rookie year and until now.

2007 - 155
2008 - 101
2009 - 151
2010 - 122
2011 - 143
2012 - 47
2013 - 126

Consider also that he's disabled now and as players grow older injuries happen more frequently.

In comment 11784174 81_Great_Dane said:

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They should be making contenders overpay for their guys, not overpaying for somebody else's guys.

Don't think there's a chance Colorado moves any of their stars this week....but how would it be overpaying?

In comment 11784097 DanMetroMan said:

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unless I'm reading it wrong, Tulo doesn't have a "first' no trade, he can be traded once without his consent. 0 years/$157.75M (2011-20), plus 2021 club option signed extension with Colorado 11/30/10, replacing final 3 years and option in previous contract 11:$5.5M, 12:$8.25M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15-19:$20M annually, 20:$14M, 21:$15M club option ($4M buyout) salaries for 2020 and 2021 may increase by $6M annually based on MVP votes, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers or All-Star selections award bonuses, including $25,000 each for Gold Glove, All Star selection $2M assignment bonus if traded may be traded only once during contract

So, if we traded for him, we wouldn't be able to trade him again.

why?

1. He is having a career year, so the value is inflated

2. Guys from Colorado are always a risk. Especially when their road splits are much lower.

3. He is 30 and has injury issues

4. His uniform number.

I'd do Thor, Plawecki, and Murphy for him. Or something equivalent. But otherwise stay away.

In comment 11784046 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

didn't re-sign Reyes. I thought that was a lot of money for a player with his injury history. I would have liked for them to pay him sooner than necessary, you know, lock him up through his prime with some hometown discount type deal, but they didn't. I do wish they would have traded him. Acquiring Reyes now, assuming the Blue Jays shit the bed, is very different. I'd expect Toronto to eat some of that contract and the prospects sent back wouldn't be crazy. I'd send Montero and Flores to Toronto for Reyes with the Jays eating 25M, making Reyes a $15M per year SS. If Stephen Drew turned down 14.1M, I have to believe even with the injuries Reyes is worth that.

Yes I would do this. I have no idea why they would do that but sure I'd take this in a second.

In comment 11784186 oipolloi said:

Quote:

why? 1. He is having a career year, so the value is inflated 2. Guys from Colorado are always a risk. Especially when their road splits are much lower. 3. He is 30 and has injury issues 4. His uniform number. I'd do Thor, Plawecki, and Murphy for him. Or something equivalent. But otherwise stay away.

You named all of those things, and would trade away a very possible ace starter who is basically ready now, our best Major League contact hitter at the moment, and one of our best positional prospects for him? I don't see why this guy is the player you would move those guys in a package for. He isn't old at all, but his injuries make him old in my book.

He's certainly been injury prone and I believe the Blue Jays have been rumored to have some $ issues themselves. The only holdup would be that the team more desperately needs to add a middle of the order bat, but Reyes and a decent LF'er would make this team very very interesting next year.

Toronto does not have to eat any of his contract.

Plus, there is zero chance Mets trade for Reyes.

In comment 11784186 oipolloi said:

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why? 1. He is having a career year, so the value is inflated 2. Guys from Colorado are always a risk. Especially when their road splits are much lower. 3. He is 30 and has injury issues 4. His uniform number. I'd do Thor, Plawecki, and Murphy for him. Or something equivalent. But otherwise stay away.

He's also injured.. again. Which decreases his value. And why is the number he wears even remotely relevant? It's meaningless.

In comment 11784189 SethFromAstoria said:

Quote:

In comment 11784046 pjcas18 said: Quote: didn't re-sign Reyes. I thought that was a lot of money for a player with his injury history. I would have liked for them to pay him sooner than necessary, you know, lock him up through his prime with some hometown discount type deal, but they didn't. I do wish they would have traded him. Acquiring Reyes now, assuming the Blue Jays shit the bed, is very different. I'd expect Toronto to eat some of that contract and the prospects sent back wouldn't be crazy. I'd send Montero and Flores to Toronto for Reyes with the Jays eating 25M, making Reyes a $15M per year SS. If Stephen Drew turned down 14.1M, I have to believe even with the injuries Reyes is worth that. Yes I would do this. I have no idea why they would do that but sure I'd take this in a second.

They wouldn't other than in a salary dump so if the Jays fall out of contention, hopefully they'll feel like they missed their window. and since their championships (1992/3?) I can't remember a time when the Jays had a legit chance against the Red Sox and Yankees.

The worst thing is neither the Sox or Yankees seem marginally better than the Jays right now, so it's a longshot for this to happen.

I think most of us agree SS has to be addressed and there is no obvious homegrown option unless Cecchini has a monster second half and moves all the way to AA.

So it's trade or FA and trade is more likely

one of Baez, Russell, Andrus, possibly Castro and possibly Profar (after he recovered from injury)

In comment 11784194 SethFromAstoria said:

Quote:

In comment 11784186 oipolloi said: Quote: why? 1. He is having a career year, so the value is inflated 2. Guys from Colorado are always a risk. Especially when their road splits are much lower. 3. He is 30 and has injury issues 4. His uniform number. I'd do Thor, Plawecki, and Murphy for him. Or something equivalent. But otherwise stay away. You named all of those things, and would trade away a very possible ace starter who is basically ready now, our best Major League contact hitter at the moment, and one of our best positional prospects for him? I don't see why this guy is the player you would move those guys in a package for. He isn't old at all, but his injuries make him old in my book.

Tulo is a good player, just not as good as everyone is making him out to be. I'm not as high on Thor as others. No need for Plawecki with TDA. Herrera and Flores are both 2B. So, Murphy is expendable and his trade value is probably at a peak.

Also, I don't like constantly selling for the future. Because often that future never comes. I think this a .500 team right now. A guy like Tulo gives you a chance to compete this year, as well as down the road.

In comment 11784204 spike said:

Quote:

one of Baez, Russell, Andrus, possibly Castro and possibly Profar (after he recovered from injury)

Texas can definitely use our catching prospect (Plawicki) and one of our prized pitching prospects, for one of their shortstops.

In comment 11784212 spike said:

Quote:

In comment 11784204 spike said: Quote: one of Baez, Russell, Andrus, possibly Castro and possibly Profar (after he recovered from injury) Texas can definitely use our catching prospect (Plawicki) and one of our prized pitching prospects, for one of their shortstops.

Andrus is owed a ton of money. I wouldn't trade a "prized pitching prospect" and Plawecki and take on Andrus contract.

Andrus hasn't proven much and is owed 120+M.

Maybe give up Melvin Mora. I don't see Mora really doing anything at the major league level.

In comment 11784210 oipolloi said:

Quote:

Tulo is a good player, just not as good as everyone is making him out to be. I'm not as high on Thor as others. No need for Plawecki with TDA. Herrera and Flores are both 2B. So, Murphy is expendable and his trade value is probably at a peak. Also, I don't like constantly selling for the future. Because often that future never comes. I think this a .500 team right now. A guy like Tulo gives you a chance to compete this year, as well as down the road.

Why not as high on Thor? I also agree almost always with getting some player you KNOW is going to kick ass for prospects but in this case I think the prospects we do have have done pretty well for themselves and so I will trust that Thor will at worse be a good innings eating pitcher with a much higher upside than that. In terms of the catcher, i don't like the idea of saying D'Arnaud is locked in enough that we can rid ourselves of another option just yet. If a trade comes down the road for instance, and the minor leaguer can be a solid major leaguer, then maybe its D'Arnaud you trade if it brings back more.

No need to rush into getting rid of chips unless you have a good amount of confidence that the player you get back is going to beat ass here. Tulo is a great player but he's hurt enough to make you maybe not rush to give away your chips for him when you can use those down the road for who knows what.

Thor
Plawecki
Montero/Niese or Gee
Flores
Rosario or Herrera

for tulo especially if Colorado would pick up some of the contract

In comment 11784174 81_Great_Dane said:

Quote:

They should be making contenders overpay for their guys, not overpaying for somebody else's guys.

Mets can be buyers as long as its not a piece for just this year

In comment 11784225 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Thor Plawecki Montero/Niese or Gee Flores Rosario or Herrera for tulo especially if Colorado would pick up some of the contract

different strokes for different folks. Lets put it that way. Remember those players you named so we can look back and see how they are all doing in a couple years compared to Tulowitzki

In comment 11784185 Ira said:

Quote:

In comment 11784097 DanMetroMan said: Quote: unless I'm reading it wrong, Tulo doesn't have a "first' no trade, he can be traded once without his consent. 0 years/$157.75M (2011-20), plus 2021 club option signed extension with Colorado 11/30/10, replacing final 3 years and option in previous contract 11:$5.5M, 12:$8.25M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15-19:$20M annually, 20:$14M, 21:$15M club option ($4M buyout) salaries for 2020 and 2021 may increase by $6M annually based on MVP votes, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers or All-Star selections award bonuses, including $25,000 each for Gold Glove, All Star selection $2M assignment bonus if traded may be traded only once during contract So, if we traded for him, we wouldn't be able to trade him again.

Can you put that type of clause in a contract?

the Mets go after OF Rusney Castillo? Considering that we badly need OF help, and that we have a payroll in the bottom 10 amongst MLB teams, why not add an OF with major upside without costing ourselves any prospects?

In comment 11784225 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Thor Plawecki Montero/Niese or Gee Flores Rosario or Herrera for tulo especially if Colorado would pick up some of the contract

See, if that's the price I don't think I'm ok with it. That's a LOT.

In comment 11784225 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Thor Plawecki Montero/Niese or Gee Flores Rosario or Herrera for tulo especially if Colorado would pick up some of the contract

Good lord, you've gone insane.

.

Flores has little value,montero's value is down off this year.Niese and Gee are injury risks. so Thor,plawecki,Herrera or Rosario and a sp of choice is not a ton its a good amount but I don't consider that a lot. They could ask for Wheeler,Degrom,Plawecki and Herrera and I wouldn't do that

In comment 11784269 Metnut said:

Quote:

the Mets go after OF Rusney Castillo? Considering that we badly need OF help, and that we have a payroll in the bottom 10 amongst MLB teams, why not add an OF with major upside without costing ourselves any prospects?

Mets along with pretty much every other team were at his workout last week. Philly and Yankees have private workouts setup

As a fan, why do you care about the Rockies picking up part of that contract? There is really no reason we should just accept that fact that this is a low payroll team. Its certainly not a long-term low revenue team. #3 in TV audience. A winning Mets team (or even a decent one) will easily support $130-160 million in payroll, adjusting up in the future for inflation.

In comment 11784329 CGiants07 said:

Mets along with pretty much every other team were at his workout last week. Philly and Yankees have private workouts setup [/quote]

If our scouts think he's the real deal, then we should be able to outbid the other teams since we have such a low payroll and have all the financial advantages of playing in NY with a new stadium and owning most of our own network that is in top 3 in MLB TV ratings.

CarGo on the other hand

I'd rather up the ante and push hard for Stanton. He's the perfect fit, but not on the trading block. Exact same situation as Tulo. But if you are packaging four top prospects, I'd up the anti And throw in a 5th prospect for Stanton.

Marlins balk, fine. Trim back the trade and work on acquiring one of their other three young OF. I'd love to see Yelich a Met. Wouldn't mind Ozuna. And Marisneck (sp?) is an interesting prospect.

Do the same with the Rockies, but reverse. Push hard for Dickerson. If they refuse to move him then you know they want to dump CarGos $$.

Call each SS stacked team and create a reverse bidding war. Rockies for Tulo, Rangers, DBacks, Mariners etc. We want a SS, in this priority of names. Here's our offers. First one to accept, deal.

In comment 11784336 Deej said:

Quote:

As a fan, why do you care about the Rockies picking up part of that contract? There is really no reason we should just accept that fact that this is a low payroll team. Its certainly not a long-term low revenue team. #3 in TV audience. A winning Mets team (or even a decent one) will easily support $130-160 million in payroll, adjusting up in the future for inflation.

sandy will never move payroll north of 130mil. I'm not convinced this a low payroll team . I think wilpons knew this year with no Harvey was going to be a challenge so they didn't go crazy in free agency

..

that I give up stupid amounts for. That fits the bill to me.

Anyone see Dmitri Young? What the holy ....?
Dmitri Young - ( New Window )

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 28s
#Mets #Yankees #Cardinals amd #RedSox seen as teams to watch for Tulowitzki this winter, though Mets still see it as unlikely

and Red Sox have scheduled private workouts for the Cuban OF

why wouldn't a player be allowed to have such a clause? His contract was ratified when he signed it.

for the year. Less than 2 million? What was it last year?

Wow, that is amazing. Good for him.

it's a worthless exercise unless you have the Mets private numbers as the attendance numbers listed publicly include free tickets given away, tickets part of "half price" deals etc. Not just the Mets, in general. For what it's worth ESPN has the Mets "drawing" 27,206 per home game vs. 26,695 last year. As we get into August/Sept, it basically means the Mets are going to end up drawing the same/a little less (based on the public numbers). They obviously aren't selling 27,000+ per night.

tribute to Ralph
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 11784393 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

it's a worthless exercise unless you have the Mets private numbers as the attendance numbers listed publicly include free tickets given away, tickets part of "half price" deals etc. Not just the Mets, in general. For what it's worth ESPN has the Mets "drawing" 27,206 per home game vs. 26,695 last year. As we get into August/Sept, it basically means the Mets are going to end up drawing the same/a little less (based on the public numbers). They obviously aren't selling 27,000+ per night.

Yeah, I've noticed the really thin crowds. Just wondering if ownership is really reaping what they've sown with this product and all the black clouds surrounding it.

and Yankees also having private workouts. Sorry, no excuse not to have one. None.

In comment 11784398 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

and Yankees also having private workouts. Sorry, no excuse not to have one. None.

hypothetically is an excuse not to sign him but to not work him out is crazy. Even if he's a turd, why wouldn't you want to find that out? Even as a way to scout a future MLBer, possible trade target?

In comment 11784404 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

hypothetically is an excuse not to sign him but to not work him out is crazy. Even if he's a turd, why wouldn't you want to find that out? Even as a way to scout a future MLBer, possible trade target?

What you're saying makes sense, but this is a team that's trying to guilt fans into paying money to come to the stadium.

who you can't see contributing at the major league level there is ten F-Mart's, Lastings Milledges, Phil Humber (who wasn't awful, just not a top prospect), etc who don't make it.

I'd trade prospects, none of them are can't miss, most won't reach their "potential" and many won't even make it to the majors.

but their value is in their perceived value if you get what I mean, so it still needs to be a fair deal.

The Mets robbed the twins, even though later on Carlos Gomez turned into a all-star and Humber thew a perfect game? but the trade wasn't viewed as lopsided at the time and the Mets even included Javy Guera and Kevin Mulvey who were top prospects who did nothing

In comment 11784383 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

for the year. Less than 2 million? What was it last year?

"Revenue" is up a decent amount, considering the team success is the same as it's been the past few years.

I wonder what the actual cost of a workout is. Does a team drop $25k flying in scouts, staffing the stadium earlier in the day etc? And what is the marginal benefit of it?

And maybe the Mets offered to do a workout, but were negged by his management who viewed them as unlikely to bid for real (maybe they already indicated as much). If he had a really good workout in front of everyone, more workouts will mostly hurt his value. There is always a grapevine.

Back in 2002 I certainly didn't expect to see Jason Lane throw 6 innings of 1 run baseball 12 years later #Amazing

Underrated story

him unless they receive "offer of the century"


link - ( New Window )

Joel Sherman �@Joelsherman1 � 49s
Make of this what you will: #Mets say have little going on, #Rays special assignment scout Bobby Heck was at AA #Mets #Yankees (cont)

Joel Sherman �@Joelsherman1 � 58s
Special assignment scouts go to specifically see players for trades this time of yr, so I assumed he was there for #Mets not #Yankees (cont)

fit IMO.

Move Xander off SS where he doesn't belong, trade guys that are overrated and overhyped - (some combo of) Jackie Bradley Jr, Mookie Betts, Cecchini, Rubby De La Rosa, Alan Webster, Anthony Renaudo, Matt Barnes, Will Middlebrooks, etc and maybe that's more of an "offer of the century" and throw in Jon Lester with the stipulation the Rockies extend Lester.

.

I am guessing there would be posts complaining that it was just for show.

trade any prospect we have outside of Thor for Betts.

no offense, you think that's a good excuse? lol

Lennon says the Mets have put Harvey's cap roughly at 150-160 for next season.

seems like a sound idea if your planning on contending

LOL, no and I agree it would be nice if they brought him in if nothing more just to see what happens. It wasn't meant as an excuse just an observation of some fans on my part.

Betts has a lot of potential, just including their main prospects...

In comment 11784468 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Lennon says the Mets have put Harvey's cap roughly at 150-160 for next season.

If we expect the team to contend next year, would it make sense to keep him in extended spring training for a few weeks at the beginning of the year? Our other options are shutting him down Strasburg/WSH style or taking him out in the 5th-6th inning each game and killing our bullpen.

ok lol. I thought you really meant that was a good reason not to work him out.

in general I agree. Sox prospects tend to be hugely overrated. The Yankees used to have this as well, not so much anymore. If anything I think some of the Yankees guys get underrated a bit (maybe blowback from the past). I'm big on Bogaerts and Betts, I think Owens is pretty legit, Swihart too. Supposedly this Devers kid is legit but he's so far away.

In comment 11784463 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

trade any prospect we have outside of Thor for Betts.

I would deal Thor for him, too. Betts is amazing. And he's blocked in Boston for the most part.

Harvey is not going to be a happy camper about that. Though this is one of the rare times that it is helpful to have a Boras client. Boras pushes his pitching clients to be conservative with their arms. So Mets and Boras could double team Harvey and tell him that they need to make the right call for a 15 year career, not prioritizing 1 month of baseball.

In comment 11784415 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

who you can't see contributing at the major league level there is ten F-Mart's, Lastings Milledges, Phil Humber (who wasn't awful, just not a top prospect), etc who don't make it. I'd trade prospects, none of them are can't miss, most won't reach their "potential" and many won't even make it to the majors. but their value is in their perceived value if you get what I mean, so it still needs to be a fair deal. The Mets robbed the twins, even though later on Carlos Gomez turned into a all-star and Humber thew a perfect game? but the trade wasn't viewed as lopsided at the time and the Mets even included Javy Guera and Kevin Mulvey who were top prospects who did nothing

I hate to speak for anyone else but I am guessing his post was a little humor that was more thinking about the possibility of maybe Tulowitzki being another Mike Bordick trade than is was about Mora itself. At least that is how I took it to mean.

put me down for the opposite

In comment 11784479 steve in ky said:

Quote:

In comment 11784415 pjcas18 said: Quote: who you can't see contributing at the major league level there is ten F-Mart's, Lastings Milledges, Phil Humber (who wasn't awful, just not a top prospect), etc who don't make it. I'd trade prospects, none of them are can't miss, most won't reach their "potential" and many won't even make it to the majors. but their value is in their perceived value if you get what I mean, so it still needs to be a fair deal. The Mets robbed the twins, even though later on Carlos Gomez turned into a all-star and Humber thew a perfect game? but the trade wasn't viewed as lopsided at the time and the Mets even included Javy Guera and Kevin Mulvey who were top prospects who did nothing I hate to speak for anyone else but I am guessing his post was a little humor that was more thinking about the possibility of maybe Tulowitzki being another Mike Bordick trade than is was about Mora itself. At least that is how I took it to mean.

Whoops, i knew he was being facetious, but I also thought he was saying don't trade prospects because they don't think they will develop into major leaguers.

the Fergosi for Nolan Ryan debacle to remember before pulling the trigger

focus on LF and SS for the necessary lineup improvements needed for 2015.

LOL, yeah I mentioned the Juan Samuel for Dykstra & McDowell trade earlier as well.

In comment 11784476 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

in general I agree. Sox prospects tend to be hugely overrated. The Yankees used to have this as well, not so much anymore. If anything I think some of the Yankees guys get underrated a bit (maybe blowback from the past). I'm big on Bogaerts and Betts, I think Owens is pretty legit, Swihart too. Supposedly this Devers kid is legit but he's so far away.

I've watched Bogearts and he'll be a legit hitter, but he's not a SS, where he would have been special.

Jackie Bradley Jr looks like a 4th OFer - defensive replacement, not a top 100 prospect. Owens, Swihart, etc. I haven't seen much of.

Betts looks legit too.

I remember when Brandon Jacobs was the next big prospect (.880 OPS at 20), I don't think he's even in their system anymore (rule V maybe?).

Anyway, I agree with you.

Pat Zachary Doug Flynn Steve Henderson Dan Norman

I just threw up in my mouth

Some of these others sucked and you almost just laugh and shake your head, but that one was different on an entirely different level.

In comment 11784503 steve in ky said:

Quote:

Some of these others sucked and you almost just laugh and shake your head, but that one was different on an entirely different level.

I don't remember the Seaver trade, but he was 32 when he was traded.

Who did they get for him? Why did they trade him?

They traded him due to a contact dispute.

Here is a good read about the entire affair.


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 11784498 steve in ky said:

Quote:

LOL, yeah I mentioned the Juan Samuel for Dykstra & McDowell trade earlier as well.

One of the saddest days of my life.

opening day in 83 when Tom Seaver returned home. I had to just park on the shoulder grass of the Grand Central Parkway and walk the rest of the way just in order to get to the stadium to see the opening pitch. I wasn't going to miss it (grin)

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m
#Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

In comment 11784634 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m #Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

I'm not in the dump Colon camp -- I think he'll have more value this offseason, when (1) he'll only have 1 year left, (2) 20+ teams will need starters, and (3) teams will need innings eaters rather than projected playoff 1-3 SPs. Hell, the right time to trade him could be May -- 2/3 of a season left, some team wont want a long term commitment and the Mets may be waiting on Thor's super 2 status.

But the notion that anything material is going to change in the next 3 days is a bit silly. MLB.com has us at 2.5% odds to make the playoffs. In the next 3 days we're not getting anywhere better than about 1 in 7-8 chances to make the playoffs. best case.

In comment 11784634 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Andy Martino �@MartinoNYDN � 1m #Mets saying less likely to move Colon if playing well, because of message it would send. So think next 3 days could matter in that regard.

I'd move Colon ONLY if Syndergaard is ready for the Majors. Maybe in the offseason.

Nothing more than a joke related to the putrid Bordick deal made pre deadline in 2000. I wasn't intimating Tulo would be the next Bordick - far from it. That said, I wouldn't trade for Tulo based on injury issues and likely asking price. Moot point anyway because it's never going to happen.

So once again, they are hesitant to make a move due to fan perception. But they amazingly have zero pulse of their own fans. What can can't understand "we have so much young pitching that we couldn't pass up on trading Colon"??

Worry about building a sustained winner. Trading colon furthers that. You're worried about fan perception? Dump Colon and immediately acquire a seeviceAble SS and/or LF while waiving CY. Is it that hard? No, so then the bullshit "fan perception" excuse is used...

Or Sandy is trying to act not interesting in order to drive up the trade value. Sandy has a pretty good track record during his Mets tenure trading away older talent fro younger chips I would trust he is always willing to listen to a good deal.

should have nothing to do with Syndergaard.

It should have to do with the return. If the Mets can get a SS or LF for Colon you trade him a heartbeat.

With Harvey back and projecting Thor in the rotation the Mets have a surplus of pitching.

deGrom has made trading Colon a must, whether Thor is ready or not.

Harvey
Wheeler
Niese
Gee
deGrom
Thor
and ?? Montero, Hefner, etc.

The Mets have options, Colon should be used to improve the team in other areas.

What happens when Parnell comes back? does Mejia become a starter? Keep his closer job? Move Familia into the rotation?

The Mets should use Colon like the asset he is.

In comment 11784676 Shecky said:

Quote:

So once again, they are hesitant to make a move due to fan perception. But they amazingly have zero pulse of their own fans. What can can't understand "we have so much young pitching that we couldn't pass up on trading Colon"?? Worry about building a sustained winner. Trading colon furthers that. You're worried about fan perception? Dump Colon and immediately acquire a seeviceAble SS and/or LF while waiving CY. Is it that hard? No, so then the bullshit "fan perception" excuse is used...

I wouldn't take any quotes that strengthen Alderson's negotiating position at face value. There were a lot of similar comments about wanting to keep Dickey when the reality was they were just waiting for their price. The same is true of Colon. He will get traded now or in the offseason and he will not be on the team next year. The only thing holding that up is another team agreeing to Sandy's price. If a team agreed to give him the players he wanted Sandy would walk on the field and pull Colon himself if he had to.

Don't play chicken. Someone is willing to take him, move him. Move him saves an additional &3mm plus the $11mm next year. If they moved him earlier when they could have - they'd have an asset plus saved another $1.5mm

why not play this out to see if they can get something good?

The may regret passing on the pitchers the Giants gave up for Peavy, but it's somewhat understandable considering they already have a log jam for next year.

I'd imagine that Sandy is holding out for someone who can play SS or LF, and there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to panic right now. If Colon continues pitching well and stays healthy there's no doubt he'll have value in the offseason on a 1 year deal.

We are all guessing what the front office is thinking, planning, or will eventually try to do. BUT. This quote screams at me that they are missing the least amount of creativity. So someone wants your prospects, but you don't want to give them up. A third team wants to trade you some prospects, that your not too excited about adding more of. Ummmmmm, you ARE allowed to make a three way trade. Not easy. But don't talk like it's not possible...

�Anybody who�s offering us a potential upgrade on our current roster is looking at our young pitching. Those interested in our veteran players, they�re offering prospects,� said Alderson before the Mets faced Philadelphia Monday starting a seven-game homestand. �We�re in that position where we don�t want to give up prospects, but we�re not anxious to trade for guys that can�t help us nearer term."

In comment 11784770 Shecky said:

Quote:

Ummmmmm, you ARE allowed to make a three way trade. Not easy. But don't talk like it's not possible...

I think you're reading too much into this. He's not saying they wont do a 3 way, though you'd have to concede that they are rare. He's saying what we all know -- the trades available are present for future trades. Most trades are of this variety, especially near the deadline, when there are teams going for it and teams planning for next year/beyond. You see more MLBer for MLBer stuff in the offseason.

Sandy is saying he isnt a buyer or seller, and that's essentially what is on the table for deals right now.

is if the money saved on Colon now (rest of the season contract) would give him extra money to spend for next year. In that instance not trading him for the best offer would be a mistake since it's likely inevitable anyway and it's unlikely the return is ever higher than right now.

If keeping him and making other moves isn't outside of their budget then what the hell. I'd rather not dump him for nothing as he's a legitimate 15 game winner and he's a positive guy in the clubhouse by all indications.

The team has said they don't expect to make a deadline deal. Same comment from every deadline, year after year. And it's always because they don't want to send the wrong message to the fans.
Which year did the Mets not say 'we don't expect to make a trade, it sends the wrong message to the fans?"
Which year did the team surprise us and make a trade?
Which of the following players were traded before the 7/31 deadline?
Reyes
Hairston
Parnell
Capuano
Hawkins
Byrd
Colon

pessimistic long-term view on Colon, but I think we should 100% try and trade him to any team that will eat the entire salary. I think that he's going to run out of gas soon and once he gets rocked a few times we're going to be on the hook for $11M next year and have no place in the rotation for him.

Also, Syndergaard looks close to ready and I think it'd be good for the organization to get him out of Vegas/PCL asap, and get him some MLB experience this year.

Assuming the cost prospect wise is significantly cheaper I think that makes a lot of sense. His contract is reasonable and not too long (similar to Grandersons) and he has upside. Good fielder and would add another really solid professional bat to the lineup. He's not a huge power guy so leaving Coors shouldn't devastate his hitting profile. His biggest negative is the same as TT which is the injuries, but if he didn't have that negative he wouldn't be available so it is what it is. The shorter remaining deal minimizes that somewhat.
Mets leaning towards Carlos Gonzalez - ( New Window )

greatly lessens his trade value. Contending teams want him NOW, but do not want to commit to next year. There is value in moving Colon just for the sake of moving him. Free up a decent chunk of salary for next year, and free up a roster spot for one of the young pitchers.

Colon isn't in the team's long term plans, keeping him would necessitate his taking a roster spot, when a Syndegaard or Montero will be ready to move up. Move him to any team that is willing to take on his salary, and don't look back. There WILL NOT be a starting caliber LF or SS coming back, but that's fine.

In comment 11785142 Section331 said:

Quote:

greatly lessens his trade value. Contending teams want him NOW, but do not want to commit to next year. There is value in moving Colon just for the sake of moving him. Free up a decent chunk of salary for next year, and free up a roster spot for one of the young pitchers. Colon isn't in the team's long term plans, keeping him would necessitate his taking a roster spot, when a Syndegaard or Montero will be ready to move up. Move him to any team that is willing to take on his salary, and don't look back. There WILL NOT be a starting caliber LF or SS coming back, but that's fine.

Totally agree with this.

Similar- Alomar "quick decline", @Buster_ESPN has blurb where scouts discuss "surprising" decline of athleticism for A. Cabrera at 28 #mets

does not lessen his value.

When you have guys like Dan Haren making 10M on contenders, Colon at that price is fine.

in fact it might be viewed a bargain if he keeps pitching like he's been pitching.

I don't think 10m is that much of a burden. He's having a good year.

Fielding-indy 3.41.

Let's us keep syndergarden in the minors until after the super 2 without looking extra "sketchy" which has a likely large financial implication down the road if he pans out.

(I agree that is a bargain in today's market), but it's committing to 41-yr old for another year. I think teams would prefer to commit to him for help this year, without having to guarantee him a roster spot for next.

Colon is a top 30 pitcher each of the last 3 years, and cumulatively. He is a tremendous value as a vet, on a short term deal. Any contender wants him not only for this years stretch run, will continue to want him for next years race. Colon the pitcher is greatly undervalued.

Which is why his $11mm is overstated. The problem is, his dollars equal his on field results. Meaning he is on a very fair contract. To not eat salary and move a fair valued player and expect a starting SS or LF, from a team in contention, is not realistic. The only way you get a starter out of this is a three wAy that includes prospect to the third team.

ERA is about avg. for the NL and he pitches half his games at Citi Field which is a pitchers park. He'll be 42 next year and is guaranteed $11M. I'm not surprised that the reports seem to indicate that there's only lukewarm interest in him.

I'm a believer in selling high on guys, and I think Colon's trade value might be at its max right now. This guy has faded down the stretch the past few years (if I remember correctly, he didn't make Oakland's playoff rotation last year despite his great 2013).

If we were weak in starting pitching, I'd say "let's consider holding onto this guy", but for 2015, we have Niese, Gee, DeGrom, Wheeler and Harvey, none of whom are candidates to go to AAA or the pen. We also have Syndergaard and Montero who should be ready to pitch in MLB in 2015. My thinking is does it really make sense for us to allocate $11M to a 42 year old starting pitcher when we have a huge hole at OF and SS and more than 5 viable SP options even without Colon?

the offseason is a possibility, but it's a game of chicken. We've seen him fade down the stretch in prior years, and his condition isn't exactly good. If he has a bad 6 weeks or so to end the year, we're going to be on the hook for that $11M, and not really have an opening in the rotation to use him.

I say, let's trade him now and get that $11M off the hook. If we can add a prospect too, even better. Of course, I think MLB GMs see the downside with Colon and he might not be easy to move.

Collins really needs to play him more. Perhaps give him a start here and there and 2b and 3b to give Murphy and Wright a day off.

In comment 11785709 Kevin999 said:

Quote:

Collins really needs to play him more. Perhaps give him a start here and there and 2b and 3b to give Murphy and Wright a day off.

Time for him to show something at this level again

does need to play him more, but he also needs to put a big day together here and make it harder for Collins to sit him.

wow

How can he figure out if he is going to be the shortstop if he never plays him?
Collins on Flores - ( New Window )

.

but the reason they are asked, anyone that watches or writes about the team wants to know WTF is going through Collins pea brain

I defend TC as much as possible he sounds like a moron here.


Reporter: "When you take a look at Wilmer Flores, when he was up here in May, when he played in five consecutive games, he hit. When he plays every other game he doesn't hit. Is now the time to see what Flores can do on an everyday basis?"

Collins: "It all depends where you're going to play him."

Reporter: "You don't have confidence in him at shortstop?"

Collins: "No, no. I didn't say that. The other kid [Tejada] is playing pretty good. I don't know what games you've been watching, but we've been playing pretty good lately."

Reporter: "He's 3-for-29."

Collins: "We're playing pretty good lately. You know, Ike Davis wasn't hitting and we were winning games. So you pick and choose your spots. Wilmer came up because Ruben got beaned, so we were concerned about having a backup. So that's why he's here. There were no instructions to play him everyday. We're going to try to get him at-bats. That's why he's in there today."

Reporter: "What do you need to see from him to keep him in the lineup everyday?"

Collins: "Nothing from him. We've got to figure out if he is going to be the shortstop, or if the other guy is going to be the shortstop."

Thanks for the link. Those comments are mind boggling. Tejadas 3/29 and the team just went 8 straight scoring 3 or less. Yet his defense is they are playing well.

actively watch the games as my disdain for the owners.

I feel bad for the players on this team who put forth the effort. They deserve better.

So since we were winning at the time, Ike Davis was a great player and should not have been traded? I guess Tejada could strike out 32 times in a row, but if the mets go 10-0 it justifies him playing.