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Sky’s the Limit for Eli Manning in New Giants’ Offense

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/28/2014 1:27 pm
What do you think?
Sky’s the Limit for Eli Manning in New Giants’ Offense - ( New Window )
I don't see any reason  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2014 1:32 pm : link
why he won't drastically improve. A better o-line, more depth than ever at RB, young hungry WR's with no egos, and a new OC who was at the helm of a potent passing attack that by and large featured no freaks at the WR position.

Why not?
that's just a general question  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2014 1:32 pm : link
not directed towards you, Eric.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 7/28/2014 1:40 pm : link
I can't wait until the 'Is Eli elite again?' features begin on Sportscenter. That's must see TV...
A better O-line?  
G2 : 7/28/2014 1:46 pm : link
you're more optimistic than I am. I have serious reservations about our O-line.
RE: A better O-line?  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2014 1:47 pm : link
In comment 11784120 G2 said:
Quote:
you're more optimistic than I am. I have serious reservations about our O-line.


It can't be any worse. We also added pieces and will be getting Beatty back. If we aren't improved then there is something drastically wrong with out coaching staff (which I don't think is the case).
Eli  
ChicagoMarty : 7/28/2014 1:53 pm : link
needs to improve his mechanics big time imo before he can even begin to think about improving his completion percentage

I would take a completion percentage in the high fifties if he cuts his interception and fumble rate in half

Let's not forget how often Eli threw behind his wr's on simple slants in KG's offense

Let's not forget how often Elii would stare down his receiver on post routes that often ended up going the other way.

Many here wish to provide Eli with excuses e.g. poor OL and bad route running by his receivers and that's fine.

But Eli needs to improve his basic passing mechanics imo adn until he does there is little sense to deluding ourselves that Eli is going to approach 70% comletion percentages and everthing that implies.
Hopefully Eli will do great, but 70% seems unrealistic given  
Del Shofner : 7/28/2014 1:53 pm : link
that it's a new offense and, unlike Rodgers, Eli is not known for either his mobility or his short passing touch.
.  
Del Shofner : 7/28/2014 1:54 pm : link
or what Marty said.
I think we will get shorter routes  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2014 2:04 pm : link
and a quicker passing game which I think Eli can and will excel in due to his release and arm strength. He absolutely needs to improve his short to intermediate accuracy, but if the offense focuses on it, then you have to assume he'll only get better.
I'm on board  
UberAlias : 7/28/2014 2:04 pm : link
I'm excited to see what the kid (well not much of a kid anymore) can do in this offense.
So the goal is  
snumber6 : 7/28/2014 2:18 pm : link
FANTASY FOOTBALL STATS !!!

I just hope they give him the plays and the time to do what I know and he's shown he can do ...

Gotta admit  
mrvax : 7/28/2014 2:20 pm : link
that Gilbride's offense probably had the most difficult array of plays in the down field passing attack. I believe Eli's stats will improve with this new offense.

It won't be dink & dunk, but it looks to me to be some shorter routes with a few long balls sprinkled in. Hopefully he won't be throwing 30 yard + passes on 3rd and short.
I have similar feelings  
winoguy : 7/28/2014 2:27 pm : link
to ChicagoMarty. Eli has to play better. Im also concerned about the lack of touch on alot of his short passes, especially if this new O is going to rely on screens and alot of short quick throws.
RE: A better O-line?  
Antdog23 : 7/28/2014 2:33 pm : link
In comment 11784120 G2 said:
Quote:
you're more optimistic than I am. I have serious reservations about our O-line.


We had two guys starting on our o'line last year that aren't even in the league anymore. You think it will be worse than that this year?
RE: A better O-line?  
GIANTSr01 : 7/28/2014 2:38 pm : link
In comment 11784120 G2 said:
Quote:
you're more optimistic than I am. I have serious reservations about our O-line.


It doesn't take much to improve over last years unit:

1. Pugh was solid last year, but should be expected to be even better
2. Schwartz is a massive upgrade over any of the OGs on the team last year.
3. One of Richburg/Jerry/Mosely should be at least as good as last year's RG
4. Beatty is Beatty.
5. Walton/Richburg should be a step up from the revolving door at C last year.
A lot of Eli's INTs have come on short routes  
oipolloi : 7/28/2014 2:45 pm : link
these are supposedly low risk throws. But Eli has had a tendency not to see LBers and safeties jumping the short routes. He has been much better throwing down the field.

So, it will be intriguing to see how he adapts. My own hunch is that the Giants emphasis on the run game took away a lot of the short routes because defenders were in the box, looking for the run. Then, Gilbride tried to make them pay by going long. It was a boom or bust strategy, and it really only worked if the running game was doing well, which it often wasn't.

I think they need a more consistent approach on offense. It sounds like Bmac is trying to implement that. Excited to see the results
Well...  
Kash15 : 7/28/2014 2:57 pm : link
a lower sack total doesn't necessarily have to ALL come from an improved OL.

The Giants have also made slight improvements at blocking at RB, FB (remember Connor wasn't there the entire season), and TE (I mean anyone is better than Meyers in that regard lol).

It's not saying much, but those units would help a lot, especially with blitz pickup.

That, combined with a more balanced attack and quicker throws in the passing game (product of WCO) would reduce the sack numbers.

I'm still concerned about OL but point is they're other ways to get around that than simply adding more talented players at that position.
The OL has improved  
deadkurtrulz : 7/28/2014 3:00 pm : link
from atrocious to.......mediocre ? We hope? No way of telling how the free agents will play or if they will stay healthy. We needed a stud OL and we drafted a back up center?
Plenty of questions there. Nicks gave us nothing but Smurphy McHammy has not even gotten on the field yet.

I don't doubt Eli can play well with a solid offensive unit around him. The question is how solid is this unit and how well the new scheme will work with the current roster.

I am hoping for the best but I don't see any reason to believe all the issues have been resolved .
The sky's always the limit for everyone in pre-season.  
Ira : 7/28/2014 3:10 pm : link
But for some reason, there have been more fluff pieces than usual this year. I wasn't expecting that after the kind of season the Giants just had.
I've mentioned this before...  
BillKo : 7/28/2014 3:18 pm : link
you get really good at the short/screen game by practicing it.....extensively.

Philly was always a great screen team, and announcers would always comment on how much time they took to practice it, and perfect it.

I don't think the Giants did that under KG. I think they practiced the vertical game most, and it showed as that was their go to stuff.

We've seen/read about Eli not throwing a pass over 10 yards during an entire practice session, and I think the new OC realizes that repitition and muscle memory is what it takes.
I can't wait, after 3-4 games, for the posts reading...  
bob in tx : 7/28/2014 3:20 pm : link
"man, Mac never takes a shot down field/ at least Gilbride would air it out on occasion/of course they will play close to the LoS if every pass is within 5 yds/ Mac isn't using Eli correctly because we all know he's best with the deep ball".

It's coming, I swear it's coming.
Rodgers took plenty of shots down field  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2014 3:21 pm : link
I don't think that will be taken away from Eli. His arm strength is his biggest asset.
One thing we can be certain of?  
Randy in CT : 7/28/2014 3:24 pm : link
Some here will never be happy.
throwing slants behind his receivers  
SHO'NUFF : 7/28/2014 3:32 pm : link
maybe because neither he or the receiver knew it was gonna be a slant?
Injuries.  
Curtis in VA : 7/28/2014 3:32 pm : link
Thats all I'm worried about.

Injuries are the one thing that, no matter how talented this team is going into the season, they cannot escape from.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/28/2014 3:36 pm : link
It's going to take a little time.

Be very prepared for growing pains the first few weeks and the "MACKADOO NEEDS TO BE FIRED" threads to start creeping in.
RE: throwing slants behind his receivers  
GIANTSr01 : 7/28/2014 3:36 pm : link
In comment 11784307 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
maybe because neither he or the receiver knew it was gonna be a slant?


Or because he barely had time for 3 step drops without getting rocked.

It also doesn't help that they had an awful running game last year. Makes it a lot easier for LBs/Safeties to jump slants/hooks when: 1) they aren't worried about a running game, and 2) they know the protection won't be good enough to go deep.
RE: .  
GIANTSr01 : 7/28/2014 3:37 pm : link
In comment 11784316 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It's going to take a little time.

Be very prepared for growing pains the first few weeks and the "MACKADOO NEEDS TO BE FIRED" threads to start creeping in.


People just need to remember how bad the D looked in the first 2 games with Spags.
Dammit Chicago Marty  
vince : 7/28/2014 3:37 pm : link
You were told to get that Quarterback coaching job and you didn't even try for it. So it NOW JUST SHUTUP!!!!!
I don't remember many interceptions on post routes  
Jupiter : 7/28/2014 4:27 pm : link
Maybe I don't know what a "post route" is.

Regarding interceptions and misses on short passes and crossing routes, the change in offensive philosophy may increase percentages on these passes.

With the old offense, the first options were for deep routes and the big play. When those plays weren't working, it was a physical and psychological adjustment to hit on the quick slants and crossing patterns.

There is a tradeoff and we may see more misses of receivers who are wide open on deep routes - and probably more times when a receiver is deep and wide open and never gets the ball.
RE: Eli  
JCin332 : 7/28/2014 4:30 pm : link
In comment 11784135 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
needs to improve his mechanics big time imo before he can even begin to think about improving his completion percentage

I would take a completion percentage in the high fifties if he cuts his interception and fumble rate in half

Let's not forget how often Eli threw behind his wr's on simple slants in KG's offense

Let's not forget how often Elii would stare down his receiver on post routes that often ended up going the other way.

Many here wish to provide Eli with excuses e.g. poor OL and bad route running by his receivers and that's fine.

But Eli needs to improve his basic passing mechanics imo adn until he does there is little sense to deluding ourselves that Eli is going to approach 70% comletion percentages and everthing that implies.


The guy has proven he can make any throw anywhere on the field in all sorts of weather and crucial situations...also he's made some of the best most clutch throws in playoff and SB history yet according to you his mechanics are horseshit..

Do you actually watch the games..?

Goals are nice  
fkap : 7/28/2014 4:38 pm : link
but how has Eli looked so far in the new system?

IMO, interviews are pretty much useless. What's the coach and/or Eli going to say? "we just want to survive"?

What matters is results. There's been enough practices now to say whether Eli is getting the hang of it or not. Why isn't that aspect in the article.
So the previous offense set a ceiling on Eli's production?  
SB : 7/28/2014 4:41 pm : link
.
One play...  
trueblueinpw : 7/28/2014 4:49 pm : link
I feel like we had one play on offense last season: throw the ball to Cruz.

Oh, wait, there was another play, Myers runs 6 yards down field and trips while Eli tosses an INT. Oh, wait, now I remember, there was a third play we ran in the first game, give the ball to WIlson, he'll fumble it and then everyone on offense plays defense. I think we ran that one a few times. Jeeze, now that I think of it, there was even a fourth play where Rueben Randle would run the wrong route and Eli would throw the ball to DB covering him. And then there was the play where Eli would hand off to some guy who we picked up off the street the week before and he would run into the back of Kevin Boothe's enormous tuchus.

Its all coming back to me now: we had one play that *worked* last year: throw the ball to Cruz.

Lord almighty, our offense was freaking pathetic last year. So, yeah, I think the sky's the limit this year. I'm excited because I'm a huge Eli fan and squarely in the camp which says he doesn't get half the credit he deserves.
Eli's not suddenly going to be something he never has been 10 years  
Riggies : 7/28/2014 4:50 pm : link
into his professional career.

People expecting him to be some brand new guy, who's consistent and doesn't turn the ball over at an above average rate, that puts up top tier stats across the board, are setting themselves up for disappointment. Just getting him back to respectability, back to where the positives outweigh the negatives and he's a good, even if not "elite" QB, is going to be a pretty big accomplishment for both him and this coaching staff, given where he's been at the past season and a half, his age, and his surrounding cast.

The completion % is probably going to be higher than usual, but the coaches aren't doing anyone any favors putting 70% out there publicly, even if they talk about it as a pipe dream goal privately.
ChicagoMarty  
jnoble : 7/28/2014 4:50 pm : link
if you replace "Eli" with "Dave Brown" than everything you said makes sense

Eli had a bad year but I believe 100 percent that he'll bounce back this year
JCin  
ChicagoMarty : 7/28/2014 5:07 pm : link
I have watched every professional game that Eli has played

Some of his picks were excruciating and have absolutely nothing to do with protection or route running

I'm talking specifically about his throws into coverage into the endzone

Anyone remember the left handed shot put interception?

Eli has to improve his mechanics and yes he has to improve his decision making.

Sure he has won two SBs and I am not forgetting it

But he has also led the league in picks and they weren't all the fault of his OL or WRs
RE: RE: A better O-line?  
MetsAreBack : 7/28/2014 5:41 pm : link
In comment 11784213 Antdog23 said:
Quote:
In comment 11784120 G2 said:


Quote:


you're more optimistic than I am. I have serious reservations about our O-line.



We had two guys starting on our o'line last year that aren't even in the league anymore. You think it will be worse than that this year?


Preseason hasnt even started yet. Dont think we'll have injuries up there again this year?

Obviously last year's oline play eventually became mental -even when the oline started to perform better later in the season, Eli was lost. If we can avoid that mental destruction, Eli will have a statistically better season.

But 70% completion%? The smart money is decisively under that target.
The short passing game will clearly improve his  
Jimmy Googs : 7/28/2014 6:20 pm : link
completion percentage, but he still needs to improve on his touch and accuracy in this type of offense.

Otherwise these receivers/backs are not going to be able to get the needed yards after the catch, or worse they are going tip a lot of passes into the air and/or get pounded.
I've not bought into "Eli Had a Bad Year" for 2013 ... and  
baadbill : 7/28/2014 7:25 pm : link
I've never bought into the fiction that dink and dunk Montana was a better QB than Simms ...

I thought Eli fought tooth and nail last year in an offense that I'd dare say most pocket quarterbacks in history would probably have done worse. I like Eli as a down the field thrower and, while he claims to be happy about the change, I've never considered the short game to be his strength.

And, lastly as a fan, I always loved the "throw it downfield" type of football of Parcells/Simms versus the "lets run up our completion percentage" by dumping 5 yard passes, many behind the LOS. I'll live with it. I don't have a choice. And I hope I learn to love it - but I doubt that's going to happen. I'm a "shove it down your throat and up your ass" type of guy and that's how I like my football played too.
So,  
Glover : 7/28/2014 8:41 pm : link
Eli struggled last season because of receivers reading defenders differently than he did, causing INTs and incompletions. Eli has been very good in that system in previous seasons as we have all witnessed. We have also witnessed Eli's inability to be a very good screen and soft touch passer. Now he will be working on it all off season, and he should get better at those aspects, I don't see him anywhere near a 70% completion rate. He will still struggle with short passes and screens, but he also should throw less INTs due to different reads than his WRs. The mid range jumper could become his best friend.
RE: Eli  
damdevs : 7/28/2014 10:16 pm : link
In comment 11784135 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
needs to improve his mechanics big time imo before he can even begin to think about improving his completion percentage

I would take a completion percentage in the high fifties if he cuts his interception and fumble rate in half

Let's not forget how often Eli threw behind his wr's on simple slants in KG's offense

Let's not forget how often Elii would stare down his receiver on post routes that often ended up going the other way.

Many here wish to provide Eli with excuses e.g. poor OL and bad route running by his receivers and that's fine.

But Eli needs to improve his basic passing mechanics imo adn until he does there is little sense to deluding ourselves that Eli is going to approach 70% comletion percentages and everthing that implies.

I guess Rueben Randle is full of shit when he said the 80% of Eli's picks were from miscommunication...hmmm? I guess I learned something new today.
RE: JCin  
damdevs : 7/28/2014 10:24 pm : link
In comment 11784469 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
I have watched every professional game that Eli has played....
But he has also led the league in picks and they weren't all the fault of his OL or WRs

I guess Big Bro Peyton and Drew Brees suck too cuz they've also led the league in picks at different times in their careers. Damn I wouldn't want one of those clowns either....Jesus enough with the non-sense.
Win or lose....  
nicky43 : 7/29/2014 9:40 am : link
It's going to be interesting to watch this new Offense. The o-line has to be better as it couldn't be worse. And I think we will all be treated to something we haven't seen in a few years.... a strong running game (as long as our RBs can stay healthy). I think a strong running game will make a major difference in our passing game.

I'm not sure how well Eli will do with the much discussed short passing game many think we'll be employing but I think he'll do just fine.

We have some new key pieces and a few special weapons that can be used for some change up exciting plays. I'm not talking trick plays but I think we might finally see a successful screen play. We have some really good speed on this team and it's going to be fun to watch.

The defense is going to be fun to watch too with the new weapons we have there.
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