All I read is that is super strong, super quick, super violent and a super studier of film. This is the guy I will be focusing on this summer. I think he will make you forget about Aaron Donald, maybe not
throws guys at the DL coach and asks them to use them.
maybe its time for a serious BBI review of what style of front 4 we plan on using this year.
we have done well with former 3/4 DE types like canty (cofield in college? hammer?) who could do more than one function at the line. the league is going the way of multiple fronts that blend 3/4 elements and 4/3 elements,
I wont even get into my insane 'modified 46' front
does Greg from LI have anything to nice to say about anyone? Calling Kuhn a scrub is rather silly. I guess in his book unless you are a perennial all pro, you are a scrub. He has done more in his 1st season and a half with the Giants than other DL's drafted higher. I am a Giant fan and root for all of the players. I don't get the insulting arrogant attitude.
I'm assuming you mean Marvin Austin. Swell, he's done more than a guy who did absolutely nothing. Standing O material right there.
He played a fair bit out of absolute necessity two seasons ago and did little but get blown off the LOS. Forgive me if I'm not sitting here all pins-and-needles about seeing him again.
... some people don’t seem to understand that there might be a little more interest in Kuhn -- despite the lack of stats -- than in a typical 7th rounder because he’s NOT typical. It makes some Giants fans pull a bit harder for a guy who had his trajectory to succeed. The fact that he’s been sidelined means his name comes up in a bit of a vacuum, which probably makes his defenders seem a little too fanatic. But if anybody can find a piece of film of him being moved backwards by a single OL, let’s see it. Otherwise, he is occupying two guys, and providing an opportunity for another defender to make a play; and I’m OK with “getting blown off the LOS” that way. We’ll see what we see. I hope that holding him out all of last year (except for some special teams) will mean that he can stay healthy enough to get the reps to keep improving.
He was raw and injured for most if not all of last season. It's pretty apparent that the giants like this kid or feel that he can be a solid rotational player at DT. He's healthy and from all accounts having a very good off season. He's always been a big strong guy and thanks to a healthy offseason is now even bigger and stronger and a little more battle tested. Might want to let this thing unfold before proclaiming anything just yet.
I wasn't all that high on Kuhn going into camp but there's reason to be hopeful here. Dottino was gushing about this guy today and the giants have been right more often than not when it comes to DT evaluation and player development. Maybe they got something with this guy. They wouldn't hold on to him for two years if they didn't see something legit.
Wtf did you expect from Kuhn as a rookie? He wasn't gonna step in and be joe klecko right off the bat. Maybe he can be jim burt one day. Burt was a late round pick I believe or he was undrafted.
there is evidence 2 suggest the Giants and his fellow players are high on him
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
Is it that hard to write out "to," "be" and "you"? And maybe mix in some punctuation and capital letters? It's 1-2 extra letters per word and putting your pinkies to work on the shift key.
Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests?
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Based on what?The guy ahsn't had the experience.
Just to ve clear and so it's understood, In all and every measurable at the combine, performance was, Kuhn was faster, stronger, more agile, benched more jumped higher, and farther, than either Patterson ,Bromley, or Hankins did at the combine.Compare his numbers to Hankins, they are not in the same league.Kuhn is a half second faster in the 40, and in the 40 that's a lot. He is, in short, a better physical specimen than any other DT on the roster, by a bit. You might WANT the guy with the best natural ability to work out.You can be sure his intelligence is there, as are his study and work habits.
I don't think his drive is questioned, nor is it up for debate whether or not he has a mean streak or plays nasty.
Dunno why people think he has a low ceiling.To be clear in case anyone missed it , as a physical specimen he is the fastest, strongest, most agile guy we have at DT.That's just a fact.The ONLY thing the guy lacks is experience. That's it.
By what standard? He was routinely blown off the LOS when defending the run and got little push defending the pass.
That's just fiction.he routinely required double teams to be handled.he didn't have the experience to beat them but just about every time he faced single man he drove him backwards deep.
... some people don’t seem to understand that there might be a little more interest in Kuhn -- despite the lack of stats -- than in a typical 7th rounder because he’s NOT typical. It makes some Giants fans pull a bit harder for a guy who had his trajectory to succeed. The fact that he’s been sidelined means his name comes up in a bit of a vacuum, which probably makes his defenders seem a little too fanatic. But if anybody can find a piece of film of him being moved backwards by a single OL, let’s see it. Otherwise, he is occupying two guys, and providing an opportunity for another defender to make a play; and I’m OK with “getting blown off the LOS” that way. We’ll see what we see. I hope that holding him out all of last year (except for some special teams) will mean that he can stay healthy enough to get the reps to keep improving.
no idea if he'll succeed or not at football, but if a fight breaks out I think they could use him.
Not a mullet, if you look closely at any pictures of him, it's actually a "Suebian Knot", like the kind ancient Germanic warriots tied their hair in to make them look taller and more intimidating in battle.His hair is long, well down past his shoulders
He is the physically gifted and the nastiest DT on the roster of this there is no dispute. He came to football late and is green as grass, but his body hasn't taken the pounding another player his age has. He coming back from a Major injury. He will get by with physicality, but the more techniques he develops getting reps the better he will get. Week 17 I wouldn't be surprised if he is starting
From a physical testing standpoint, he's very gifted. His workout numbers were excellent. Secondly, the kid loves football, loves it so much he moved from frikkin Germany to the states and got himself a scholarship at a D1 school. He played well enough there that he got drafted which is insanely hard to do.
So from my perspective, I see a very good athlete by the numbers, who loves the game and has sacrificed to play. If he has a tremendous work ethic and stays healthy, why can't he succeed? He's older for sure but that can bring maturity. Does not seem to have wear and tear. More than that, the Giants staff seems to like him. They cut Rogers last year and kept Kuhn. Now they are talking him up again. I think he makes this team and joins the rotation.
drafting, positional naming, and how and why we are questioning, in one example, the Bromley pick and our D line schemes as well, saying what I have been saying, only more clearly:
''The shift toward indistinguishable one-gap 3-4 and 4-3 fronts and wildly multiple "amoeba" defenses like Ryan's is causing just as much confusion in football scouting and analysis.
When scouting, grading, ranking and giving awards to defenders, we break them down into categories that no longer make sense.
A 4-3 3-technique tackle such as Ndamukong Suh is similar to a 3-4 defensive end such as J.J. Watt, not a 3-4 tackle such as Vince Wilfork. A 4-3 defensive end such as Robert Quinn is similar to a 3-4 outside linebacker such as Brian Orakpo—not a 3-4 end such as Watt. A 4-3 outside linebacker such as Lavonte David doesn't play anything like Orakpo.''
''(wiki) Born in Weinheim, Germany, Kuhn started playing football at age 14. He was introduced to the sport while spending vacations with his family in Florida. His interest and curiosity lead him to start playing football in Germany and he eventually began playing Linebacker and Defensive Tackle for the Weinheim Longhorns, winning Rookie of The Year. Kuhn was a four time German Football League All-Star.''
people are lazy and dont do research in a research-easy Â
(wiki)
''The German Football League (GFL) is the elite league for American football in Germany. Playing rules are based on those of the American NCAA.''
lots of americans go over - post school so they had to restrict the numbers of non-germans. so kuhn was better than non-NFL uSA college grads at DT position as a youngster.
Kuhn Sucks. I am going on record that Nunn should be fired and his ass kicked out the door and Greg from LI should be put in his place. ASAFP-like. Then we would have a real DL.
who has barely played would make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with upside
who has barely played would [ be expected ] make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with [ more presumed ] upside [/quote]
If you had put it that ^ way, I'd say, "Fair enough." Either way ... who else listened the other day to Hankins respond to a question about Kuhn, and the position they are both in at camp (for the moment)? "TEAM!"
RE: appeals to authority never fall out of fashion around here Â
that Greg from LI obviously knows more than The Giants scouts and coaching staff, and they are either complete morons or like to employ "scrubs" because it is a feel good story which equates to good public relations. I am glad that has been cleared up. Kuhn obviously sucks and does not belong in the NFL.
Mark Herzlich is absolutely terrible, yet still on the team.
Sinorice Moss hung around for four years.
Danny Ware for five years.
When Kuhn actually does something noteworthy on a field, talk about him then. At this point, yeah, he's marginal no matter how much Nunn might talk him up.
I am generally content to believe that the team knows what's best Â
but the Giants were also high on William Joseph and Marvin Austin, and stuck with them for a while. They ran Sinorice Moss out there year after year. Nobody knows why DJ Ware stuck on the roster for years.. And Curtis Painter seems to have the same favor.
While they clearly know much more about football than I do, the Giants staff is hardly infallible. I'd think the disasters we've seen the past two seasons would disabuse anyone of that notion.
While they clearly know much more about football than I do, the Giants staff is hardly infallible. I'd think the disasters we've seen the past two seasons would disabuse anyone of that notion.
Kuhn was described as strong but a little raw when he was drafted. Defensive tackles often take a couple years to develop.
He was not that good when he played. He showed good effort, but he did get pushed around, but wasn't horrible. In short, he did get SOME experience, and that may help him to better know what to expect and how to prepare.
We will see what he can do and this is his year to start getting it done. I am excited to see him, but a lot more excited to see Moore, Hankins, and Kennard.
IMO - I would be happy if he was a solid rotational DT to expect more might be unrealistic, but to say he can't be that is giving up too soon.
but I don't expect him to be much more than a dependable rotation player. He will get some starts, but not as many as the next guy.What I hope for out of him is some great plays , as opposed to a great player.In the end, I hope he's reliable and entertaining.Not expecting much more than that.
We'll know soon enough if Kuhn is a player or not. Â
The way the FO treated Patterson's re-signing for 2014 I don't think they were terribly enamored with his 2013 performance, and I find it curious he's "starting" over Hankins.
As the season wears on I'll be surprised if Patterson earns more snaps per game than Hankins or Kuhn.
like Kuhn's chances of giving us some quality snaps this season. I think he'll struggle a bit early and get better as the season progresses.
DTs need a lot of practice reps when they're going through technique changes and he had some bad habits that needed breaking. He's quick enough off the ball, has plenty of power and shows good effort. He played too high last year and I'd assume that was their focal point in the offseason.
maybe its time for a serious BBI review of what style of front 4 we plan on using this year.
we have done well with former 3/4 DE types like canty (cofield in college? hammer?) who could do more than one function at the line. the league is going the way of multiple fronts that blend 3/4 elements and 4/3 elements,
I wont even get into my insane 'modified 46' front
I'm assuming you mean Marvin Austin. Swell, he's done more than a guy who did absolutely nothing. Standing O material right there.
He played a fair bit out of absolute necessity two seasons ago and did little but get blown off the LOS. Forgive me if I'm not sitting here all pins-and-needles about seeing him again.
brought up his name in the context of replacing Linval Joseph.
I wasn't all that high on Kuhn going into camp but there's reason to be hopeful here. Dottino was gushing about this guy today and the giants have been right more often than not when it comes to DT evaluation and player development. Maybe they got something with this guy. They wouldn't hold on to him for two years if they didn't see something legit.
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
Is it that hard to write out "to," "be" and "you"? And maybe mix in some punctuation and capital letters? It's 1-2 extra letters per word and putting your pinkies to work on the shift key.
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
But he played for an ACC team that wasn't UVA.
Quote:
and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Just to ve clear and so it's understood, In all and every measurable at the combine, performance was, Kuhn was faster, stronger, more agile, benched more jumped higher, and farther, than either Patterson ,Bromley, or Hankins did at the combine.Compare his numbers to Hankins, they are not in the same league.Kuhn is a half second faster in the 40, and in the 40 that's a lot. He is, in short, a better physical specimen than any other DT on the roster, by a bit. You might WANT the guy with the best natural ability to work out.You can be sure his intelligence is there, as are his study and work habits.
I don't think his drive is questioned, nor is it up for debate whether or not he has a mean streak or plays nasty.
Dunno why people think he has a low ceiling.To be clear in case anyone missed it , as a physical specimen he is the fastest, strongest, most agile guy we have at DT.That's just a fact.The ONLY thing the guy lacks is experience. That's it.
^^^ This
So from my perspective, I see a very good athlete by the numbers, who loves the game and has sacrificed to play. If he has a tremendous work ethic and stays healthy, why can't he succeed? He's older for sure but that can bring maturity. Does not seem to have wear and tear. More than that, the Giants staff seems to like him. They cut Rogers last year and kept Kuhn. Now they are talking him up again. I think he makes this team and joins the rotation.
''The shift toward indistinguishable one-gap 3-4 and 4-3 fronts and wildly multiple "amoeba" defenses like Ryan's is causing just as much confusion in football scouting and analysis.
When scouting, grading, ranking and giving awards to defenders, we break them down into categories that no longer make sense.
A 4-3 3-technique tackle such as Ndamukong Suh is similar to a 3-4 defensive end such as J.J. Watt, not a 3-4 tackle such as Vince Wilfork. A 4-3 defensive end such as Robert Quinn is similar to a 3-4 outside linebacker such as Brian Orakpo—not a 3-4 end such as Watt. A 4-3 outside linebacker such as Lavonte David doesn't play anything like Orakpo.''
but Kuhn will be fine.
''The German Football League (GFL) is the elite league for American football in Germany. Playing rules are based on those of the American NCAA.''
lots of americans go over - post school so they had to restrict the numbers of non-germans. so kuhn was better than non-NFL uSA college grads at DT position as a youngster.
thats a far cry from 'not knowing football'
people are just lazy and cannot even be bothered to work google.
LOL
who has barely played would [ be expected ] make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with [ more presumed ] upside [/quote]
If you had put it that ^ way, I'd say, "Fair enough." Either way ... who else listened the other day to Hankins respond to a question about Kuhn, and the position they are both in at camp (for the moment)? "TEAM!"
When the authority appealed to is an "actual" authority (i.e., Nunn), then it isn't a logical fallacy.
Sinorice Moss hung around for four years.
Danny Ware for five years.
When Kuhn actually does something noteworthy on a field, talk about him then. At this point, yeah, he's marginal no matter how much Nunn might talk him up.
I'll go along with that.
He was not that good when he played. He showed good effort, but he did get pushed around, but wasn't horrible. In short, he did get SOME experience, and that may help him to better know what to expect and how to prepare.
We will see what he can do and this is his year to start getting it done. I am excited to see him, but a lot more excited to see Moore, Hankins, and Kennard.
IMO - I would be happy if he was a solid rotational DT to expect more might be unrealistic, but to say he can't be that is giving up too soon.
As the season wears on I'll be surprised if Patterson earns more snaps per game than Hankins or Kuhn.
Don't really know what to think about that
DTs need a lot of practice reps when they're going through technique changes and he had some bad habits that needed breaking. He's quick enough off the ball, has plenty of power and shows good effort. He played too high last year and I'd assume that was their focal point in the offseason.