All I read is that is super strong, super quick, super violent and a super studier of film. This is the guy I will be focusing on this summer. I think he will make you forget about Aaron Donald, maybe not
He got rotational snaps as a raw 7th round drafted rookie. Something Joseph didn't get as a highly touted second rounder.
Kuhn led the 2012 Giants in passed knocked down at the LOS. Donald may not be the best comparison, but I think Kuhn plays and contributes big time for our 2014 Giants.
and a spot start because the Giants were decimated at DT. At best his ceiling is as a 3DT. PDs are nice, but he was also partly in position for those because he wasn't getting any push. Keep in mind he's 28 already.
At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.
he wouldn't be the first scrub the Giants irrationally have Â
At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.
The Giants were also essentially out of things by that point. All that move meant was they felt Kuhn was the better long term bet than the 35 year old, oft-injured Rogers. It had little to do with 2013 and everything to do with them counting on Kuhn for depth in 2014 (and beyond).
there is evidence 2 suggest the Giants and his fellow players are high on him
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests?
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests?
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
It was the "I think he will make you forget about Aaron Donald" in the initial post. Disagree.
At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.
I think you meant 2013..right? How did Kuhn do at the end of the season as I don't recall?
Even as a first year player showed that he was very stout at the POA. That is what they want out of him, and that is what he does and will do well. Nothing more, nothing less. Will he be a dominant beast of a defensive lineman? Umm yeah probably not (although he has the potential to be a good run defender). Will he help to allow some of the other players we have to play more downhill by occupying blockers? Yep.
I like him, and hope he stays healthy. And so clearly does the staff.
Don't understand what you are saying. Giants could have kept Kuhn for 2014 without activating him in 2013.
I think they activated him in 2013 for 2013. No?
They either had to IR him, activate him, or cut him. Since he had practiced fully for a few weeks while on PUP, it would've been hard to IR him without the PA filing a grievance.
still in the Game well into their 30's. And still successful. He's in his prime years. He started his career late so his body is younger than the average 28 year old with 5 years of service. Albeit,he had one major injury that set him back.
I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him
if he had any sort of start to his career to build off of.
Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.
... so he could continue to practice. He barely played, and registered just one tackle. But he was raw and rusty, so he needed the reps; plus the Giants needed to assess him as they prepared for free agency and the Draft.
if he had any sort of start to his career to build off of.
Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.
He's in his physical prime now. Unfortunately, due to his relative inexperience, by the time he reaches his "mental" prime, he'll probably be tailing off physically.
RE: kuhn>patterson based on younger (better investment) Â
and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Patterson played very well last year, is experienced with the NFC East and is actually a leader on the Defense (based on comments from other players). He may be on the wrong side of 30 but in a DT rotational he is fine to keep going.
Oh, and by the way, we need him badly.
Kuhn is a prospect with about 5 tackles in his career.
The amount of attention this guy gets is absurdly out of proportion to his actual ability to play football, which is marginal.
How do you know how well Markus Kuhn is capable of playing football for the Giants this year? He played well in his first year for a rookie. He didn't play last year. (Maybe he improved in the year he was away, and maybe he didn't.)
What makes you think he is just a "marginal" player this year? I am calling you out, because I doubt you have any facts behind your opinion of Kuhn. Prove me wrong, by stating why you believe he is just a marginal player.
If he makes the roster and is in the rotation or serviceable at best Â
How many 7th rounders have we had over the years that make the team? Standouts? Bradshaw was the only steal I can remember. Jessie Armistead was a gem picked in 1993 (8th round)
which is my thing....ya'know. a dork for this team.
patterson has been a reliable plugger in small space with us, not exactly an 'upside' type on this team: zero rush, zero chase down, zero making things happen when lines start to break down. and getting old.
He didn't play that well because he was thrown into the fray as a rook Â
He was still learning his technique at an NFL level. Of course, he will have growing pains. He was stout at times and held his own. He showed "potential" For a 7th rounder, I'll take it. He was serviceable. Against men who've played in the league for years. He didn't hurt us.
Again, barring injury, let's revisit this again after he's had a few games under his belt.
watching the games, patterson seems like the poster boy Â
the guy's gotten some kudos, but nothing outrageous (outside an occasional exception). He was raw, beat the odds as a 7th rounder to make the team, played half a season, had a serious injury, and then returned to service. It's a success story already.
It's a bit early to write him off, or to pencil him in.
for 'just plug and never anything else' i.e. a mediocre defense. the opposite of what we had w spags.
Kuhn has a LONG way to go to even reach that level and I think you're selling Patterson short. Though a "space eater" that can occasionally occupy two blockers is very valuable to a defense. Especially if you have LBs (like Beason) that can read the play and flow to the holes to make the plays. Guys like Patterson keep the LBs clean.
Like I said earlier in the thread, Kuhn's ceiling is probably that of a 3rd DT (more likely the 4th in a strong rotation). That's valuable, especially for a 7th round pick, but it's nothing special.
I am not sure that patterson has done anything HERE Â
other than (albeit this is important) get low and stand his ground well in small spaces. have not seen much of him flowing anywhere.
and getting old. I would hate to see the team waste draft picks on players who can do that, -but only that-, and no more, next year.
the thing about players like (canty, cofield, hankins, brent urban) is that they are stout, but can -also- make plays in the chaos that ensues when an OL starts to break down.
patterson, no, not very much here anyway. I do not want to think we use the particular 'technique' as an excuse to draft lesser players.
still in the Game well into their 30's. And still successful. He's in his prime years. He started his career late so his body is younger than the average 28 year old with 5 years of service. Albeit,he had one major injury that set him back.
I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him
For someone learning the game, he IS old. And I think people take the whole "wear and tear" thing a bit to far. Sure, his body might not be as beat up as most guys his age, but his body is still that of a 28 year old. He's not a young kid with the benefit of youth to help him along as he learns how to play. Much different learning to play football as a 23 year old than a 28 year old, as far as what is required of you physically.
Just my opinion. Of course I'd love for him to become the next Reggie White. I just don't see it happening. He's one of those physically gifted raw low risk guys that the Giants often go after in the later rounds. Very few ever become anything more than that and it seems to me like Kuhn will not be an exception.
Doesn't mean I don't like him or don't want him to be successful. Just don't see it happening.
does Greg from LI have anything to nice to say about anyone? Calling Kuhn a scrub is rather silly. I guess in his book unless you are a perennial all pro, you are a scrub. He has done more in his 1st season and a half with the Giants than other DL's drafted higher. I am a Giant fan and root for all of the players. I don't get the insulting arrogant attitude.
Who cares how big he is? Patterson still showed the ability to clog holes and occupy multiple blockers. That's what he's paid to do. Again, he doesn't need to "pursue" because if he's doing his job well, then Beason et al should be free to flow to the action.
without dominant DL play in terms of creating chaos with front 4 or 5.. unless we suddenly become the ravens north. who were known for having 2 true big nose types on the field at the same time???
I get that size is not the only factor with guys that can play Â
throws guys at the DL coach and asks them to use them.
maybe its time for a serious BBI review of what style of front 4 we plan on using this year.
we have done well with former 3/4 DE types like canty (cofield in college? hammer?) who could do more than one function at the line. the league is going the way of multiple fronts that blend 3/4 elements and 4/3 elements,
I wont even get into my insane 'modified 46' front
does Greg from LI have anything to nice to say about anyone? Calling Kuhn a scrub is rather silly. I guess in his book unless you are a perennial all pro, you are a scrub. He has done more in his 1st season and a half with the Giants than other DL's drafted higher. I am a Giant fan and root for all of the players. I don't get the insulting arrogant attitude.
I'm assuming you mean Marvin Austin. Swell, he's done more than a guy who did absolutely nothing. Standing O material right there.
He played a fair bit out of absolute necessity two seasons ago and did little but get blown off the LOS. Forgive me if I'm not sitting here all pins-and-needles about seeing him again.
... some people don’t seem to understand that there might be a little more interest in Kuhn -- despite the lack of stats -- than in a typical 7th rounder because he’s NOT typical. It makes some Giants fans pull a bit harder for a guy who had his trajectory to succeed. The fact that he’s been sidelined means his name comes up in a bit of a vacuum, which probably makes his defenders seem a little too fanatic. But if anybody can find a piece of film of him being moved backwards by a single OL, let’s see it. Otherwise, he is occupying two guys, and providing an opportunity for another defender to make a play; and I’m OK with “getting blown off the LOS” that way. We’ll see what we see. I hope that holding him out all of last year (except for some special teams) will mean that he can stay healthy enough to get the reps to keep improving.
He was raw and injured for most if not all of last season. It's pretty apparent that the giants like this kid or feel that he can be a solid rotational player at DT. He's healthy and from all accounts having a very good off season. He's always been a big strong guy and thanks to a healthy offseason is now even bigger and stronger and a little more battle tested. Might want to let this thing unfold before proclaiming anything just yet.
I wasn't all that high on Kuhn going into camp but there's reason to be hopeful here. Dottino was gushing about this guy today and the giants have been right more often than not when it comes to DT evaluation and player development. Maybe they got something with this guy. They wouldn't hold on to him for two years if they didn't see something legit.
Wtf did you expect from Kuhn as a rookie? He wasn't gonna step in and be joe klecko right off the bat. Maybe he can be jim burt one day. Burt was a late round pick I believe or he was undrafted.
there is evidence 2 suggest the Giants and his fellow players are high on him
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
Is it that hard to write out "to," "be" and "you"? And maybe mix in some punctuation and capital letters? It's 1-2 extra letters per word and putting your pinkies to work on the shift key.
Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests?
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Based on what?The guy ahsn't had the experience.
Just to ve clear and so it's understood, In all and every measurable at the combine, performance was, Kuhn was faster, stronger, more agile, benched more jumped higher, and farther, than either Patterson ,Bromley, or Hankins did at the combine.Compare his numbers to Hankins, they are not in the same league.Kuhn is a half second faster in the 40, and in the 40 that's a lot. He is, in short, a better physical specimen than any other DT on the roster, by a bit. You might WANT the guy with the best natural ability to work out.You can be sure his intelligence is there, as are his study and work habits.
I don't think his drive is questioned, nor is it up for debate whether or not he has a mean streak or plays nasty.
Dunno why people think he has a low ceiling.To be clear in case anyone missed it , as a physical specimen he is the fastest, strongest, most agile guy we have at DT.That's just a fact.The ONLY thing the guy lacks is experience. That's it.
By what standard? He was routinely blown off the LOS when defending the run and got little push defending the pass.
That's just fiction.he routinely required double teams to be handled.he didn't have the experience to beat them but just about every time he faced single man he drove him backwards deep.
... some people don’t seem to understand that there might be a little more interest in Kuhn -- despite the lack of stats -- than in a typical 7th rounder because he’s NOT typical. It makes some Giants fans pull a bit harder for a guy who had his trajectory to succeed. The fact that he’s been sidelined means his name comes up in a bit of a vacuum, which probably makes his defenders seem a little too fanatic. But if anybody can find a piece of film of him being moved backwards by a single OL, let’s see it. Otherwise, he is occupying two guys, and providing an opportunity for another defender to make a play; and I’m OK with “getting blown off the LOS” that way. We’ll see what we see. I hope that holding him out all of last year (except for some special teams) will mean that he can stay healthy enough to get the reps to keep improving.
no idea if he'll succeed or not at football, but if a fight breaks out I think they could use him.
Not a mullet, if you look closely at any pictures of him, it's actually a "Suebian Knot", like the kind ancient Germanic warriots tied their hair in to make them look taller and more intimidating in battle.His hair is long, well down past his shoulders
He is the physically gifted and the nastiest DT on the roster of this there is no dispute. He came to football late and is green as grass, but his body hasn't taken the pounding another player his age has. He coming back from a Major injury. He will get by with physicality, but the more techniques he develops getting reps the better he will get. Week 17 I wouldn't be surprised if he is starting
From a physical testing standpoint, he's very gifted. His workout numbers were excellent. Secondly, the kid loves football, loves it so much he moved from frikkin Germany to the states and got himself a scholarship at a D1 school. He played well enough there that he got drafted which is insanely hard to do.
So from my perspective, I see a very good athlete by the numbers, who loves the game and has sacrificed to play. If he has a tremendous work ethic and stays healthy, why can't he succeed? He's older for sure but that can bring maturity. Does not seem to have wear and tear. More than that, the Giants staff seems to like him. They cut Rogers last year and kept Kuhn. Now they are talking him up again. I think he makes this team and joins the rotation.
drafting, positional naming, and how and why we are questioning, in one example, the Bromley pick and our D line schemes as well, saying what I have been saying, only more clearly:
''The shift toward indistinguishable one-gap 3-4 and 4-3 fronts and wildly multiple "amoeba" defenses like Ryan's is causing just as much confusion in football scouting and analysis.
When scouting, grading, ranking and giving awards to defenders, we break them down into categories that no longer make sense.
A 4-3 3-technique tackle such as Ndamukong Suh is similar to a 3-4 defensive end such as J.J. Watt, not a 3-4 tackle such as Vince Wilfork. A 4-3 defensive end such as Robert Quinn is similar to a 3-4 outside linebacker such as Brian Orakpo—not a 3-4 end such as Watt. A 4-3 outside linebacker such as Lavonte David doesn't play anything like Orakpo.''
''(wiki) Born in Weinheim, Germany, Kuhn started playing football at age 14. He was introduced to the sport while spending vacations with his family in Florida. His interest and curiosity lead him to start playing football in Germany and he eventually began playing Linebacker and Defensive Tackle for the Weinheim Longhorns, winning Rookie of The Year. Kuhn was a four time German Football League All-Star.''
people are lazy and dont do research in a research-easy Â
(wiki)
''The German Football League (GFL) is the elite league for American football in Germany. Playing rules are based on those of the American NCAA.''
lots of americans go over - post school so they had to restrict the numbers of non-germans. so kuhn was better than non-NFL uSA college grads at DT position as a youngster.
Kuhn Sucks. I am going on record that Nunn should be fired and his ass kicked out the door and Greg from LI should be put in his place. ASAFP-like. Then we would have a real DL.
who has barely played would make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with upside
who has barely played would [ be expected ] make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with [ more presumed ] upside [/quote]
If you had put it that ^ way, I'd say, "Fair enough." Either way ... who else listened the other day to Hankins respond to a question about Kuhn, and the position they are both in at camp (for the moment)? "TEAM!"
RE: appeals to authority never fall out of fashion around here Â
that Greg from LI obviously knows more than The Giants scouts and coaching staff, and they are either complete morons or like to employ "scrubs" because it is a feel good story which equates to good public relations. I am glad that has been cleared up. Kuhn obviously sucks and does not belong in the NFL.
Mark Herzlich is absolutely terrible, yet still on the team.
Sinorice Moss hung around for four years.
Danny Ware for five years.
When Kuhn actually does something noteworthy on a field, talk about him then. At this point, yeah, he's marginal no matter how much Nunn might talk him up.
I am generally content to believe that the team knows what's best Â
but the Giants were also high on William Joseph and Marvin Austin, and stuck with them for a while. They ran Sinorice Moss out there year after year. Nobody knows why DJ Ware stuck on the roster for years.. And Curtis Painter seems to have the same favor.
While they clearly know much more about football than I do, the Giants staff is hardly infallible. I'd think the disasters we've seen the past two seasons would disabuse anyone of that notion.
While they clearly know much more about football than I do, the Giants staff is hardly infallible. I'd think the disasters we've seen the past two seasons would disabuse anyone of that notion.
Kuhn was described as strong but a little raw when he was drafted. Defensive tackles often take a couple years to develop.
He was not that good when he played. He showed good effort, but he did get pushed around, but wasn't horrible. In short, he did get SOME experience, and that may help him to better know what to expect and how to prepare.
We will see what he can do and this is his year to start getting it done. I am excited to see him, but a lot more excited to see Moore, Hankins, and Kennard.
IMO - I would be happy if he was a solid rotational DT to expect more might be unrealistic, but to say he can't be that is giving up too soon.
but I don't expect him to be much more than a dependable rotation player. He will get some starts, but not as many as the next guy.What I hope for out of him is some great plays , as opposed to a great player.In the end, I hope he's reliable and entertaining.Not expecting much more than that.
We'll know soon enough if Kuhn is a player or not. Â
The way the FO treated Patterson's re-signing for 2014 I don't think they were terribly enamored with his 2013 performance, and I find it curious he's "starting" over Hankins.
As the season wears on I'll be surprised if Patterson earns more snaps per game than Hankins or Kuhn.
like Kuhn's chances of giving us some quality snaps this season. I think he'll struggle a bit early and get better as the season progresses.
DTs need a lot of practice reps when they're going through technique changes and he had some bad habits that needed breaking. He's quick enough off the ball, has plenty of power and shows good effort. He played too high last year and I'd assume that was their focal point in the offseason.
Kuhn led the 2012 Giants in passed knocked down at the LOS. Donald may not be the best comparison, but I think Kuhn plays and contributes big time for our 2014 Giants.
The Giants were also essentially out of things by that point. All that move meant was they felt Kuhn was the better long term bet than the 35 year old, oft-injured Rogers. It had little to do with 2013 and everything to do with them counting on Kuhn for depth in 2014 (and beyond).
I think they activated him in 2013 for 2013. No?
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
It was the "I think he will make you forget about Aaron Donald" in the initial post. Disagree.
I think you meant 2013..right? How did Kuhn do at the end of the season as I don't recall?
I like him, and hope he stays healthy. And so clearly does the staff.
I think they activated him in 2013 for 2013. No?
They either had to IR him, activate him, or cut him. Since he had practiced fully for a few weeks while on PUP, it would've been hard to IR him without the PA filing a grievance.
makes future drafts more rational
>7th round pick
>9 games played in two + seasons.
On the upside he's had a better career than Marvin Austin to date.
I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him
Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.
Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.
He's in his physical prime now. Unfortunately, due to his relative inexperience, by the time he reaches his "mental" prime, he'll probably be tailing off physically.
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Patterson played very well last year, is experienced with the NFC East and is actually a leader on the Defense (based on comments from other players). He may be on the wrong side of 30 but in a DT rotational he is fine to keep going.
Oh, and by the way, we need him badly.
Kuhn is a prospect with about 5 tackles in his career.
How do you know how well Markus Kuhn is capable of playing football for the Giants this year? He played well in his first year for a rookie. He didn't play last year. (Maybe he improved in the year he was away, and maybe he didn't.)
What makes you think he is just a "marginal" player this year? I am calling you out, because I doubt you have any facts behind your opinion of Kuhn. Prove me wrong, by stating why you believe he is just a marginal player.
How many 7th rounders have we had over the years that make the team? Standouts? Bradshaw was the only steal I can remember. Jessie Armistead was a gem picked in 1993 (8th round)
patterson has been a reliable plugger in small space with us, not exactly an 'upside' type on this team: zero rush, zero chase down, zero making things happen when lines start to break down. and getting old.
Again, barring injury, let's revisit this again after he's had a few games under his belt.
the guy's gotten some kudos, but nothing outrageous (outside an occasional exception). He was raw, beat the odds as a 7th rounder to make the team, played half a season, had a serious injury, and then returned to service. It's a success story already.
It's a bit early to write him off, or to pencil him in.
its sort of moot to me as I mock drafted Brent Urban.
the development of DT Bromley will be a much more important factor in this years draft being a high pick as far as not steering off the tracks.
Kuhn has a LONG way to go to even reach that level and I think you're selling Patterson short. Though a "space eater" that can occasionally occupy two blockers is very valuable to a defense. Especially if you have LBs (like Beason) that can read the play and flow to the holes to make the plays. Guys like Patterson keep the LBs clean.
Like I said earlier in the thread, Kuhn's ceiling is probably that of a 3rd DT (more likely the 4th in a strong rotation). That's valuable, especially for a 7th round pick, but it's nothing special.
and getting old. I would hate to see the team waste draft picks on players who can do that, -but only that-, and no more, next year.
the thing about players like (canty, cofield, hankins, brent urban) is that they are stout, but can -also- make plays in the chaos that ensues when an OL starts to break down.
patterson, no, not very much here anyway. I do not want to think we use the particular 'technique' as an excuse to draft lesser players.
Stout, area-controlling defensive tackles are a commodity.
Casey Hampton, Sam Adams, and so on.
I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him
For someone learning the game, he IS old. And I think people take the whole "wear and tear" thing a bit to far. Sure, his body might not be as beat up as most guys his age, but his body is still that of a 28 year old. He's not a young kid with the benefit of youth to help him along as he learns how to play. Much different learning to play football as a 23 year old than a 28 year old, as far as what is required of you physically.
Just my opinion. Of course I'd love for him to become the next Reggie White. I just don't see it happening. He's one of those physically gifted raw low risk guys that the Giants often go after in the later rounds. Very few ever become anything more than that and it seems to me like Kuhn will not be an exception.
Doesn't mean I don't like him or don't want him to be successful. Just don't see it happening.
''keeping the LBs clean''
like a bunch of lesser-than, or wanna-be, Ravens.
we have thrived in the past with a line that can stop the run AND attack, by turns...or stop AND take advantage of the confusion on OL.
have we given up on that totally? (re: patterson)
Probably pushing 400 if we're being honest. The guy was shaped like an eggplant on legs.
But the point is the skillset. It's not a skillset that shows up on the stat sheet, but it's highly valuable.
I'm not saying patterson is as good, but what he does has value.
Who cares how big he is? Patterson still showed the ability to clog holes and occupy multiple blockers. That's what he's paid to do. Again, he doesn't need to "pursue" because if he's doing his job well, then Beason et al should be free to flow to the action.
maybe its time for a serious BBI review of what style of front 4 we plan on using this year.
we have done well with former 3/4 DE types like canty (cofield in college? hammer?) who could do more than one function at the line. the league is going the way of multiple fronts that blend 3/4 elements and 4/3 elements,
I wont even get into my insane 'modified 46' front
I'm assuming you mean Marvin Austin. Swell, he's done more than a guy who did absolutely nothing. Standing O material right there.
He played a fair bit out of absolute necessity two seasons ago and did little but get blown off the LOS. Forgive me if I'm not sitting here all pins-and-needles about seeing him again.
brought up his name in the context of replacing Linval Joseph.
I wasn't all that high on Kuhn going into camp but there's reason to be hopeful here. Dottino was gushing about this guy today and the giants have been right more often than not when it comes to DT evaluation and player development. Maybe they got something with this guy. They wouldn't hold on to him for two years if they didn't see something legit.
he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie
Is it that hard to write out "to," "be" and "you"? And maybe mix in some punctuation and capital letters? It's 1-2 extra letters per word and putting your pinkies to work on the shift key.
All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.
But he played for an ACC team that wasn't UVA.
Quote:
and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with
makes future drafts more rational
Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.
Just to ve clear and so it's understood, In all and every measurable at the combine, performance was, Kuhn was faster, stronger, more agile, benched more jumped higher, and farther, than either Patterson ,Bromley, or Hankins did at the combine.Compare his numbers to Hankins, they are not in the same league.Kuhn is a half second faster in the 40, and in the 40 that's a lot. He is, in short, a better physical specimen than any other DT on the roster, by a bit. You might WANT the guy with the best natural ability to work out.You can be sure his intelligence is there, as are his study and work habits.
I don't think his drive is questioned, nor is it up for debate whether or not he has a mean streak or plays nasty.
Dunno why people think he has a low ceiling.To be clear in case anyone missed it , as a physical specimen he is the fastest, strongest, most agile guy we have at DT.That's just a fact.The ONLY thing the guy lacks is experience. That's it.
^^^ This
So from my perspective, I see a very good athlete by the numbers, who loves the game and has sacrificed to play. If he has a tremendous work ethic and stays healthy, why can't he succeed? He's older for sure but that can bring maturity. Does not seem to have wear and tear. More than that, the Giants staff seems to like him. They cut Rogers last year and kept Kuhn. Now they are talking him up again. I think he makes this team and joins the rotation.
''The shift toward indistinguishable one-gap 3-4 and 4-3 fronts and wildly multiple "amoeba" defenses like Ryan's is causing just as much confusion in football scouting and analysis.
When scouting, grading, ranking and giving awards to defenders, we break them down into categories that no longer make sense.
A 4-3 3-technique tackle such as Ndamukong Suh is similar to a 3-4 defensive end such as J.J. Watt, not a 3-4 tackle such as Vince Wilfork. A 4-3 defensive end such as Robert Quinn is similar to a 3-4 outside linebacker such as Brian Orakpo—not a 3-4 end such as Watt. A 4-3 outside linebacker such as Lavonte David doesn't play anything like Orakpo.''
but Kuhn will be fine.
''The German Football League (GFL) is the elite league for American football in Germany. Playing rules are based on those of the American NCAA.''
lots of americans go over - post school so they had to restrict the numbers of non-germans. so kuhn was better than non-NFL uSA college grads at DT position as a youngster.
thats a far cry from 'not knowing football'
people are just lazy and cannot even be bothered to work google.
LOL
who has barely played would [ be expected ] make anyone forget a player 6-7 years younger with [ more presumed ] upside [/quote]
If you had put it that ^ way, I'd say, "Fair enough." Either way ... who else listened the other day to Hankins respond to a question about Kuhn, and the position they are both in at camp (for the moment)? "TEAM!"
When the authority appealed to is an "actual" authority (i.e., Nunn), then it isn't a logical fallacy.
Sinorice Moss hung around for four years.
Danny Ware for five years.
When Kuhn actually does something noteworthy on a field, talk about him then. At this point, yeah, he's marginal no matter how much Nunn might talk him up.
I'll go along with that.
He was not that good when he played. He showed good effort, but he did get pushed around, but wasn't horrible. In short, he did get SOME experience, and that may help him to better know what to expect and how to prepare.
We will see what he can do and this is his year to start getting it done. I am excited to see him, but a lot more excited to see Moore, Hankins, and Kennard.
IMO - I would be happy if he was a solid rotational DT to expect more might be unrealistic, but to say he can't be that is giving up too soon.
As the season wears on I'll be surprised if Patterson earns more snaps per game than Hankins or Kuhn.
Don't really know what to think about that
DTs need a lot of practice reps when they're going through technique changes and he had some bad habits that needed breaking. He's quick enough off the ball, has plenty of power and shows good effort. He played too high last year and I'd assume that was their focal point in the offseason.