Marcus Kuhn

He got rotational snaps as a raw 7th round drafted rookie. Something Joseph didn't get as a highly touted second rounder.

Kuhn led the 2012 Giants in passed knocked down at the LOS. Donald may not be the best comparison, but I think Kuhn plays and contributes big time for our 2014 Giants.

voice. He does a better Arnold than Armold

Super Duper

The amount of attention this guy gets is absurdly out of proportion to his actual ability to play football, which is marginal.

and a spot start because the Giants were decimated at DT. At best his ceiling is as a 3DT. PDs are nice, but he was also partly in position for those because he wasn't getting any push. Keep in mind he's 28 already.

At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.

an attachment towards.

You root against Kuhn. I'll root for him.

In comment 11785028 aquidneck said:

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At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.

The Giants were also essentially out of things by that point. All that move meant was they felt Kuhn was the better long term bet than the 35 year old, oft-injured Rogers. It had little to do with 2013 and everything to do with them counting on Kuhn for depth in 2014 (and beyond).

Don't understand what you are saying. Giants could have kept Kuhn for 2014 without activating him in 2013.

I think they activated him in 2013 for 2013. No?

there is evidence 2 suggest the Giants and his fellow players are high on him

he can b a big, tough, reliable interior presence who can start if u need him to. u need guys like kuhn, i like him as DT depth + thought he did a pretty good job as a rookie

He looks big and mean and German...but that hasn't really translated on the field.

Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests?

All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.

In comment 11785059 Wonderphil11 said:

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Am I missing something or has Kuhn been discussed endlessly on this board as Greg suggests? All I know is the guy seems to have the requisite attitude and from all accounts has been a tireless worker and upped his game according to his peers and coaches. He appears to be exactly what they thought he'd be...a non-stop grinder who will be an important part of the rotation.

It was the "I think he will make you forget about Aaron Donald" in the initial post. Disagree.

Barring injury, I see Kuhn being a very disruptive force.

In comment 11785028 aquidneck said:

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At the expense of cutting Rogers - something the Giants didn't have to do. They could have IR'd Kuhn for 2014 and kept Rogers (who claimed he was healthy at the time) but thought Kuhn could contribute more.

I think you meant 2013..right? How did Kuhn do at the end of the season as I don't recall?

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Even as a first year player showed that he was very stout at the POA. That is what they want out of him, and that is what he does and will do well. Nothing more, nothing less. Will he be a dominant beast of a defensive lineman? Umm yeah probably not (although he has the potential to be a good run defender). Will he help to allow some of the other players we have to play more downhill by occupying blockers? Yep.

I like him, and hope he stays healthy. And so clearly does the staff.

In comment 11785046 aquidneck said:

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Don't understand what you are saying. Giants could have kept Kuhn for 2014 without activating him in 2013. I think they activated him in 2013 for 2013. No?

They either had to IR him, activate him, or cut him. Since he had practiced fully for a few weeks while on PUP, it would've been hard to IR him without the PA filing a grievance.

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and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with

makes future drafts more rational

>28 years old
>7th round pick
>9 games played in two + seasons.

Good he might be. He was forced into action his rookie year. His 2nd year was pretty much ruined by the injury.

On the upside he's had a better career than Marvin Austin to date.

Kuhn is going to make anyone eat crow or surprise them.

still in the Game well into their 30's. And still successful. He's in his prime years. He started his career late so his body is younger than the average 28 year old with 5 years of service. Albeit,he had one major injury that set him back.

I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him

if he had any sort of start to his career to build off of.

Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.

... so he could continue to practice. He barely played, and registered just one tackle. But he was raw and rusty, so he needed the reps; plus the Giants needed to assess him as they prepared for free agency and the Draft.

In comment 11785322 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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if he had any sort of start to his career to build off of. Inexperienced players, especially essentially new to football players like Kuhn, can't improve without playing. No amount of video or being a workout warrior supplements facing off against an opponent trying to beat you.

He's in his physical prime now. Unfortunately, due to his relative inexperience, by the time he reaches his "mental" prime, he'll probably be tailing off physically.

In comment 11785276 alligatorpie said:

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and patterson never had much of an upside to begin with makes future drafts more rational

Patterson was a 1st round pick. He had far more upside than Kuhn ever did and was a good DT for the Eagles before needing brain surgery. If Kuhn ever develops into the player Patterson is now, he was a steal in the 7th round.

the love that folks on BBI seem to give Kuhn.

Patterson played very well last year, is experienced with the NFC East and is actually a leader on the Defense (based on comments from other players). He may be on the wrong side of 30 but in a DT rotational he is fine to keep going.

Oh, and by the way, we need him badly.

Kuhn is a prospect with about 5 tackles in his career.

In comment 11785011 Greg from LI said:

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The amount of attention this guy gets is absurdly out of proportion to his actual ability to play football, which is marginal.

How do you know how well Markus Kuhn is capable of playing football for the Giants this year? He played well in his first year for a rookie. He didn't play last year. (Maybe he improved in the year he was away, and maybe he didn't.)

What makes you think he is just a "marginal" player this year? I am calling you out, because I doubt you have any facts behind your opinion of Kuhn. Prove me wrong, by stating why you believe he is just a marginal player.

He's still a steal.

How many 7th rounders have we had over the years that make the team? Standouts? Bradshaw was the only steal I can remember. Jessie Armistead was a gem picked in 1993 (8th round)

By what standard? He was routinely blown off the LOS when defending the run and got little push defending the pass.

i don't get the fascination with this guy. i hope i'm wrong

which is my thing....ya'know. a dork for this team.

patterson has been a reliable plugger in small space with us, not exactly an 'upside' type on this team: zero rush, zero chase down, zero making things happen when lines start to break down. and getting old.

He was still learning his technique at an NFL level. Of course, he will have growing pains. He was stout at times and held his own. He showed "potential" For a 7th rounder, I'll take it. He was serviceable. Against men who've played in the league for years. He didn't hurt us.

Again, barring injury, let's revisit this again after he's had a few games under his belt.

for 'just plug and never anything else' i.e. a mediocre defense. the opposite of what we had w spags.

really?

the guy's gotten some kudos, but nothing outrageous (outside an occasional exception). He was raw, beat the odds as a 7th rounder to make the team, played half a season, had a serious injury, and then returned to service. It's a success story already.

It's a bit early to write him off, or to pencil him in.

not been beaten up as much as other players his age- 'game age' is less.

its sort of moot to me as I mock drafted Brent Urban.

cause he's still just learning the game. It's not like he grew up playing Pop Warner and HS football

Only 1 way to begin to settle this argument.

the icing, any contribution is great from a game perpsective and from a future draft perspective - a multiplier.

the development of DT Bromley will be a much more important factor in this years draft being a high pick as far as not steering off the tracks.

In comment 11785385 alligatorpie said:

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for 'just plug and never anything else' i.e. a mediocre defense. the opposite of what we had w spags.

Kuhn has a LONG way to go to even reach that level and I think you're selling Patterson short. Though a "space eater" that can occasionally occupy two blockers is very valuable to a defense. Especially if you have LBs (like Beason) that can read the play and flow to the holes to make the plays. Guys like Patterson keep the LBs clean.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Kuhn's ceiling is probably that of a 3rd DT (more likely the 4th in a strong rotation). That's valuable, especially for a 7th round pick, but it's nothing special.

other than (albeit this is important) get low and stand his ground well in small spaces. have not seen much of him flowing anywhere.

and getting old. I would hate to see the team waste draft picks on players who can do that, -but only that-, and no more, next year.

the thing about players like (canty, cofield, hankins, brent urban) is that they are stout, but can -also- make plays in the chaos that ensues when an OL starts to break down.

patterson, no, not very much here anyway. I do not want to think we use the particular 'technique' as an excuse to draft lesser players.

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and only that.

Stout, area-controlling defensive tackles are a commodity.

Casey Hampton, Sam Adams, and so on.

In comment 11785310 Canton said:

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still in the Game well into their 30's. And still successful. He's in his prime years. He started his career late so his body is younger than the average 28 year old with 5 years of service. Albeit,he had one major injury that set him back. I truly believe He will open up some eyes this season. He got bigger and stronger. The coaches love what they see in camp. We'll get to see it on the field, in the coming weeks. I have high hopes for him

For someone learning the game, he IS old. And I think people take the whole "wear and tear" thing a bit to far. Sure, his body might not be as beat up as most guys his age, but his body is still that of a 28 year old. He's not a young kid with the benefit of youth to help him along as he learns how to play. Much different learning to play football as a 23 year old than a 28 year old, as far as what is required of you physically.

Just my opinion. Of course I'd love for him to become the next Reggie White. I just don't see it happening. He's one of those physically gifted raw low risk guys that the Giants often go after in the later rounds. Very few ever become anything more than that and it seems to me like Kuhn will not be an exception.

Doesn't mean I don't like him or don't want him to be successful. Just don't see it happening.

does Greg from LI have anything to nice to say about anyone? Calling Kuhn a scrub is rather silly. I guess in his book unless you are a perennial all pro, you are a scrub. He has done more in his 1st season and a half with the Giants than other DL's drafted higher. I am a Giant fan and root for all of the players. I don't get the insulting arrogant attitude.

doesn't count as wear and tear?