NFT: Tuesday MLB Trade Deadline Thread

how many teams are calling about Willingham one has to assume teams think he can help them right? Willingham's 118 OPS+ would rank #2 in the Yankees lineup just behind Gardner. To suggest he couldn't help is silly. SHOULD the Yankees be going for it is a different argument.

is the cost I pass. I like his upside too much to trade for Willingham.

he sucks ass

Gardner 120 OPS+
Willingham 118
Teixeria 116
Ellsbury 111
Beltran 99

you wouldn't do the deal is one thing, it's not a "crazy" price for a solid bat however.

In comment 11785339 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 11785290 Shecky said: Quote: How much more than Niese or Gee would the Sox want? Assuming a resigning is negotiated in advance. Also a trade of Lester makes him more appealing in the winter without the first rounder attached to him. The Mets first rounder has a good chance of being protected again, but I wouldn't sign Lester. If the Mets want to add pitching I'd trad for Price.

I doubt mets first round pick will be protected the way they are playing there looking at a close to 500 finish

would rank #1 on the Yankees in wRC+, #2 in wOBA and currently would rank 10th in baseball in LF in wRC+ and 9th in wOBA.

pick likely won't be protected. Too many really bad teams.

We dont need a guy that never gets hits but will get on base. We need someone to drive home guys. Gardner, Ellsbury and even Jeter are getting on base, but nobody is driving them home.

but understand why they have to. YES ratings, ticket sales, and so on. Willingham would help, and seems like the type of player the Yanks have been trading for...guys that don't cost us a ton of top prospects but offer us incremental improvement.

all well and good but don't you think a player you describe also costs significantly more than a guy whom Jim Callis didn't rank im the Yankees top 20 prospects this week? Callis is no schlub and the Yankees have a good/solid system but not 20 studs deep good.

then the Yankees shouldnt do anything.

knows less about the Yankee system than most of the serious fans here.

as much as he sucks would be a significantly better #2 hitter with his stats this year than Jeter.

Don't act like Jeter is not a big problem in the 2 hole, he is.

Only two in the lineup carrying their weight are Gardner and Ellsbury, and neither one of those are lighting the world on fire, they are just playing pretty well.

He didn't have Judge top 3 on their prospect list.

is he plays at a park where hitters go to die.

He is definitely a guy who teams would love to take a chance on.

it's not like YS is some great park for righties.

In comment 11785430 DanMetroMan said:

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pick likely won't be protected. Too many really bad teams.

How many are protected? top 10?

Right now, at 4 games under .500 the Mets pick tied for 10th with the White Sox.

I feel like a second half swoon is coming. I'm not hoping for it, but history shows it happens.

cmon. Ranking Judge 5th in the system is some ridiculous reach? If anything it's a positive to the Yankees system. Not having a guy in a top 20 says a whole lot more than having a guy 5th vs. 3rd or 4th.

In comment 11785401 Shecky said:

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Lefty ace of the defending champs is now a reject? Wonder what you think of the Rockies reject SS and Marlins reject RF?

Why are they trading them?

because they don't like to pay their own players market value when it's time for them to get paid. If the player doesn't sign for a hometown discount, they move on.

In comment 11785453 SethFromAstoria said:

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In comment 11785401 Shecky said: Quote: Lefty ace of the defending champs is now a reject? Wonder what you think of the Rockies reject SS and Marlins reject RF? Why are they trading them?

To get something for him before they lose him in a free agency bidding war resulting in an overpay - for Lester.

Price is being traded because he's going to get a ton in arbitration and then he'll be a FA, the Rays can't afford him.

In comment 11785453 SethFromAstoria said:

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In comment 11785401 Shecky said: Quote: Lefty ace of the defending champs is now a reject? Wonder what you think of the Rockies reject SS and Marlins reject RF? Why are they trading them?

So in your book Mike Piazza was a Marlins/Dodgers reject? You could at least pretend not to troll people....

In comment 11785453 SethFromAstoria said:

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In comment 11785401 Shecky said: Quote: Lefty ace of the defending champs is now a reject? Wonder what you think of the Rockies reject SS and Marlins reject RF? Why are they trading them?

Seth. Is that a serious question??

In a chat with reporters, Mets GM Sandy Alderson acknowledged that the club has an opportunity to do a “thing or two,” but wouldn’t bet on something happening between now and the deadline, writes Anthony DiComo of MLB.com. Alderson said that at some point he might be willing to use his top prospects in a blockbuster trade, but said that it would have to be “the right time for the right player under the right circumstances.”
Earlier today, Jeff Passan reported that the Mets would move Noah Syndergaard in a deal for Troy Tulowitzki, but David Lennon of Newsday (on Twitter) hears that the Mets will not include him in any type of trade. Lennon cautions that things can change, but that’s the thinking at this moment.
Daisuke Matsuzaka, who landed on the disabled list on Friday with right elbow inflammation, should resume tossing a baseball in three or four days, manager Terry Collins said, according to Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com. The right-hander could possibly be among the starters on the trade block this week.

who said Cano would have to be a 1B in the majors?

Even if the have a protected pick, they would lose a second round pick and the associated slot money.
Best case scenario is he is traded so he can't be offered a QO. But the bidding war would likely get too high then.

not to derail the thread, but the MLB draft is a ridiculous crapshoot.

as of 2010, top 10 picks have a 40% change of being a "successful" MLB player. Just 40%.

2nd round is under 10%. I'd lose a 2nd round pick in a heartbeat, top 10 I'd need someone special.

the Red Sox are not short on cash. Why don't they want to pay the guy? And why do we want to pay the guy instead of paying what we have? If we were on the edge of a World Series, ok maybe then I get it. But why would we take someone from a team in a similar spot as us and give them any talent back in the process?

What I am asking is not trolling or being stupid. In fact I find the idea of the Mets trading for Lester to be insane and a waste of discussion. But I'm trying to understand the point of view.

Calling him a reject is not quite the right way to put it. I think you can say that paying a starter at the back end of his prime a huge amount of money isn't prudent for an ascending team building around youth.

That being said, I don't see the Mets and Red Sox as similar situations. The Mets are ascending, the Red Sox are breaking down and rebuilding.

In comment 11785510 SethFromAstoria said:

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the Red Sox are not short on cash. Why don't they want to pay the guy? And why do we want to pay the guy instead of paying what we have? If we were on the edge of a World Series, ok maybe then I get it. But why would we take someone from a team in a similar spot as us and give them any talent back in the process? What I am asking is not trolling or being stupid. In fact I find the idea of the Mets trading for Lester to be insane and a waste of discussion. But I'm trying to understand the point of view.

I don't think your viewpoint is wrong. I just had an issue with your terminolgy. Calling elite players "rejects" undermines the rest of your post, even if you make good points.

I think Lester makes sense as an FA to sure up our rotation if we gut some of the farm to get an all-star bat. I think it would be silly to trade for him in the next day or two.

In comment 11785487 pjcas18 said:

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not to derail the thread, but the MLB draft is a ridiculous crapshoot. as of 2010, top 10 picks have a 40% change of being a "successful" MLB player. Just 40%. 2nd round is under 10%. I'd lose a 2nd round pick in a heartbeat, top 10 I'd need someone special.

PJ - I agree with you and your point. I just don't ignore losing a second round pick and the slot money. Not as valuable as a 1, but also to not completely discount a 2.

In comment 11785510 SethFromAstoria said:

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the Red Sox are not short on cash. Why don't they want to pay the guy? And why do we want to pay the guy instead of paying what we have? If we were on the edge of a World Series, ok maybe then I get it. But why would we take someone from a team in a similar spot as us and give them any talent back in the process? What I am asking is not trolling or being stupid. In fact I find the idea of the Mets trading for Lester to be insane and a waste of discussion. But I'm trying to understand the point of view.

I was suggesting to trade for Price, not Lester, maybe it's splitting hairs and means the same thing to you.

But the Rays are in a different situation from Boston in they can't afford their stars.

And what's different is in Price's case he has a year of arbitration left (2015), before he's a FA, so you can't just sign him in the off-season.

Like others, I was thrown off by the term reject.

Let me explain my thinking. Hitters are massively expensive right now, yet Lester seems attainable. I have zero problem giving up a 3/4 pitcher like Niese who will soon cost half the price of Lester (plus prospects). we are adding a top of the rotation lefty who is used to winning. And is protection in case Harvey returns as a 2 and not a 1. Third, it takes the pressure off Wheeler. He is a 3 now, doesn't need to be an ace. Same with deGrom and whoever becomes our 5.

Financially I show above how it's done. Con and Niese make what Lester will make. We have a glut of pitching anyway. Lester makes trading young arms for a bat a lot easier. Less maybes in the rotation. You can now trade Gee and Murphy and young arms for big bats. Again, the financials. Gee and Murphy are about to start making big money. So in my scenario. Spending on an ace like lefty, it saves you money with the corresponding moves.

We don't have to agree. But you asked for the how and why I think Lester makes sense.

if you were getting another season, much less three or four, it would be a different issue entirely. That's why the asking price for Hamels is astronomical even though his contract is anything but team-friendly.

have made the best offer to the Phillies for Hamels. Some rumors are saying its Piscotty, Martinez, and Miller.

However, I believe the Phillies are going to want Taveras, which I doubt St. Louis parts with.

I don't want a pitching prospect heavy package for Hamels ... after all TINSTAAPP.

The Cardinals have been jerking Taveras around this year. Calling him up to sit mostly on the bench. Sending him down then calling him up again and not giving him significant at bats ahead of Craig even though Craig is having a terrible year. If they are not going to give him at bats he should be at AAA. I wonder if the Cardinals are souring on Taveras.

my use of the term reject was for effect because these are situations where these good players or formerly great players are not going to be extended by their teams, so I question the logic of why the Mets would "rescue" these teams by taking their overpriced bloated players. In fact I think its like the opposite of the ideal scenario. And I guess in addition, I find it weird to even suggest that a team with like 9 possible quality starters, 3 or 4 of whom are like ace/number 2's would even consider replacing those players with other team's high priced players who are not wanted anymore.

The end.

We have one ace. And several potentials. In this case, I take the "known" because we are giving up a 3/4 in Niese. Not Thor. Not wheeler. Not DeGrom.

In comment 11785561 SethFromAstoria said:

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my use of the term reject was for effect because these are situations where these good players or formerly great players are not going to be extended by their teams, so I question the logic of why the Mets would "rescue" these teams by taking their overpriced bloated players. In fact I think its like the opposite of the ideal scenario. And I guess in addition, I find it weird to even suggest that a team with like 9 possible quality starters, 3 or 4 of whom are like ace/number 2's would even consider replacing those players with other team's high priced players who are not wanted anymore. The end.

In the case of price, I believe it's more a case of the TB operating model than the fact they don't want him. Like the Twins with Santana. I don't think any sane person would say the Twins didn't want Santana nor would they say the Rays don't want Price.

that's silly to phrase it that way.

I just believe that in a lot of cases prospects most value is as prospects. Can Thor become an ace? Maybe, but you know Price is an ace.

so if trading Thor to the Rays (plus) and getting back Price works I do it.

I see no failure in that model on anyone's part, no rejects involved, no unwanted players, the only failure is in hindsight (like in the Santana trade) if the prospects fail to provide value to their new team, in which case it only strengthens my perspective.

In comment 11785383 DanMetroMan said:

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he's a 19 year old SS very, very far away from the majors with 1 homer in 148 professional games. I'm not advocating the Yankees make such a trade but teams "going for it" have to pay the prices. Hate to tell you baseball "experts" wouldn't lose their minds if such a trade was made.

Trading Low A prospects (especially injured ones) is a shitty proposition for both teams though, and it always has been. You never get full value because of the information asymmetry (you almost have to assume the player has medical problems) and the gaining team has to hope that three years and some good luck with health from now he can contribute.

In comment 11785343 sinctybldh said:

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Trade I'd like to see happen: De La Rosa to the Yankees in exchange for right-handed pitching prospect Luis Severino and 3B/LF prospect Dante Bichette Jr. That deal would give the Yankees a legitimate chance of giving Derek Jeter one last shot at another title. De La Rosa is one of the most underrated left-handed starters in baseball and has the makeup and character to handle the New York market during a pennant race. I would then like to see the Yankees turn around and send shortstop prospect Abiatal Avelino to the Twins for Josh Willingham.

Severino is untouchable. That would be a 1980s George trade that always kept the Yanks in neutral

everything you said, I agree with. I'm just saying if it came over the wire the Yankees made such a trade Law, Callis, Sickels etc wouldn't react with "wow, the Yankees gave up a stud for a crappy Josh Willingham", in all honesty the Twins would likely be the ones who pass since of the ridiculously high bust factor of a 19 year old A-ball SS.

In comment 11785606 dpinzow said:

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In comment 11785343 sinctybldh said: Quote: Trade I'd like to see happen: De La Rosa to the Yankees in exchange for right-handed pitching prospect Luis Severino and 3B/LF prospect Dante Bichette Jr. That deal would give the Yankees a legitimate chance of giving Derek Jeter one last shot at another title. De La Rosa is one of the most underrated left-handed starters in baseball and has the makeup and character to handle the New York market during a pennant race. I would then like to see the Yankees turn around and send shortstop prospect Abiatal Avelino to the Twins for Josh Willingham. Severino is untouchable. That would be a 1980s George trade that always kept the Yanks in neutral

Severino isn't untouchable, he could be a centerpiece to go out and get a stud like Tulowitzki or Stanton. But you don't deal the best pitching prospect you've had in five or six years to get two months of a good but not great starter is just fucking moronic.

In comment 11785612 DanMetroMan said:

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everything you said, I agree with. I'm just saying if it came over the wire the Yankees made such a trade Law, Callis, Sickels etc wouldn't react with "wow, the Yankees gave up a stud for a crappy Josh Willingham", in all honesty the Twins would likely be the ones who pass since of the ridiculously high bust factor of a 19 year old A-ball SS.

Sure, no dispute here. But it's not a trade that is likely to be made for that reason.

seems to mistake the Rockies ASKING for top pitching prospects for him = the Rockies will GET/deserve to get top pitching prospects for him. I don't fault them for asking, why wouldn't they? But c'mon.

no Severino for Tulo or anyone 30 or over.

In comment 11785638 DanMetroMan said:

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seems to mistake the Rockies ASKING for top pitching prospects for him = the Rockies will GET/deserve to get top pitching prospects for him. I don't fault them for asking, why wouldn't they? But c'mon.

The burden is whether the return is better than a QO (first rounder), and it isn't likely to be.

Byrd reportedly insisting his 2016 option be guaranteed to agree to be traded (and why shouldn't he?) If that happens Byrd really needs to send Sandy a gift basket for granting his agent the favor of a ST invite.. from out of baseball (basically) to an "extra" 24.7 million in earnings? Wowzas.

over the top, sure, you can consider such a deal. They aren't. They're currently sporting a rotation of Kuroda, Phelps, McCarthy, Greene and Capuano. Adding Willingham to the lineup isn't going to change that fact. They just aren't good enough for a deal like that to make sense.

needs to have a multi-year horizon.