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Josh Gordon might beat NFL's suspension?

DanMetroMan : 7/29/2014 3:58 pm
Gordon's appeal of his 16-game suspension, which is scheduled to be heard on Friday, will reportedly hinge on inconsistencies in measurement of his urine sample, which was split into two containers. Florio:

Urine samples routinely are split into two bottles, the "A" bottle and the "B" bottle. If the "A" bottle generates a positive result, the "B" bottle is tested. Amazingly, the "B" bottle doesn't have to independently show a violation. Instead, the substance abuse policy states that the "'B' bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the 'A' bottle Test, is evident to the 'limits of detection' to confirm the results of the 'A' bottle Test."

[...]

For Gordon, the "A" bottle showed a concentration of 16 ng/ml, only one nanogram per milliliter above the limits of 15. The "B" bottle showed a concentration of 13.6 ng/ml — less than the threshold.

To emphasize, Gordon's "A" and "B" bottles came from the same urine sample. The "B" was only tested to confirm that the "A" wasn't tainted or wildly out of bounds—it doesn't matter that the "B" wouldn't have been a violation had it arbitrarily been labeled the "A" bottle, or that there was a sizable discrepancy between the two tested bottles. It's tough shit for Josh Gordon, despite the fact that his urine averaged out to be below allowable limits.

But, this is how the NFL's Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse (the renegotiation of which has more or less been going on for three years) dictates testing should go. It's the same document that mandated Gordon, a repeat offender, be tested every few days.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Gordon landed in Stage III of the program last year as part of a negotiated two-game suspension for the use of cough syrup that contained codeine. Once in Stage III, a player never leaves. And he must pass up to 10 drug tests per month.

According to the source, Gordon has passed at least 70 drug tests.

The NFL's marijuana policy is a retrograde embarrassment. It's not technically on appeal here, in what sounds like a pretty strong case for Josh Gordon, but maybe it should be.

Update: Per ESPN's Adam Schefter, Gordon's appeal will also maintain that his drug test was so marginally positive that it could have been the result of second-hand smoke.
Link - ( New Window )
There's been a lot of talk out of Brown's camp  
BurberryManning : 7/29/2014 4:03 pm : link
that he will get a reduced penalty due to technicalities. He's also just recently hired a high-profile attorney to help him in his defense which I would figure to be an indication that he's been advised that he has a chance to skate the one-year banhammer.
Marginally positive as a result of dilution not 2nd hand smoke.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 7/29/2014 4:04 pm : link
Nice try though Josh
Please have this resolved before my fantasy keepers are due.  
BeerFridge : 7/29/2014 4:05 pm : link
kthxbye
Would be mildly ironic...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 4:05 pm : link
if he beat or reduced this suspension and then got another one for the DUI.
I run a certified chemical lab  
snumber6 : 7/29/2014 4:14 pm : link
and the nitpicking presented here is nonsense ...

The level was 15 and 16 is over and 13.6 is under ...
Both are within experimental error ...

Rules are put in to account for that ... here the second one <EVEN THOUGH BELOW THE VALUE> confirms the previous result ...

The rule states that the first result of 16 is the official figure ... and the second result of 13.6 is used to confirm
that value as correct ... it did ... so the 16 stands ...
You don't take the second result ... you don't average the 2 ... you take the first result ... that is the rule in effect ...


To give an idea on testing variability ... a recent study of Arsenic in soil gave acceptance criteria of between 63 ppm and 135 ppm for a sample with a certified value of 125 ppm ...

13.6 and 16 are in excellent agreement ... the fact that 15 is a pass fail for the player is immaterial ...
Not going to contest the validity of the sample...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 4:17 pm : link
but how hard does the NFL want to push this, suspending a guy 16 games for a recreational drug that is legal in a couple of the states in which the NFL has teams? Gordon is one of the most exciting players in the league on a team that seems to have something to cheer about (and sell jerseys about) for the first time in forever. A compromise penalty would still say the league takes its drug policy seriously while getting him back on the field.
Yup, second hand smoke  
Gman11 : 7/29/2014 4:18 pm : link
Just like when they get caught with the stuff in their pocket......"That's not mine! I don't know how it got there!"
Dunedin Amen  
larryinnewhaven : 7/29/2014 4:26 pm : link
I'm not a weed guy at all but if these guys want to smoke recreationally to help endure a brutal profession let them puff away. It's not a performance enhancer.
Personal Beliefs Aside...  
LarmerTJR : 7/29/2014 4:33 pm : link
How hard is it to follow the fucking rules, regardless if you think they are righteous and just or not. He has already been suspended, and has a chance to be a great player and a very rich man, and he STILL puts himself at risk. He was smoking a substance that many workplaces have rules against, or at the very least, if you some how believe the second hand smoke argument, in a situation close to the banned substance. Never mind following that up with a DUI soon after. Something is seriously wrong here, and if think weed is great and should be legal, awesome, it doesn't change the rules is signed up to follow.
I'd be fine with a couple games...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 4:34 pm : link
and a couple more for the DUI.
It's utter  
BigRoss71 : 7/29/2014 4:36 pm : link
bullshit that the league still has penalties for marijuana use while knocking out your fiancé only yields a 2 game suspension. If it affects your performance negatively, then the consequences will follow (like your next contract, playing time, getting cut etc), but it should not be a league suspension.

I think Gordon is a young man who has a wild side, and really needs to be more responsible with alcohol. But i couldn't care less about any player smoking weed.
Well there's a difference...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 4:39 pm : link
There is a structured drug policy that was negotiated for by players and owners that is perceived to benefit both parties.

Personal conduct is subjective and the things that violate it also give rise to criminal penalties. It is understandably a different punishment structure, so that comparing punishment under one to punishment under the other is not really appropriate. Gordon certainly isn't getting 16 games for a first bad urine screen.
I do not get the argument that weed is legal in a couple of states so  
robbieballs2003 : 7/29/2014 4:52 pm : link
this is bullshit. Regardless of how you feel about weed it is illegal according to the CBA agreed to by the players and owners. Just because the rules on weed changed AFTER THE FACT doesnt mean anything. There are plenty ofthings that are legal aaccording to the government but illegal in the CBA. That's the way it is and the rules they have to follow. It is common knowledge that the NFL clearly lets their players know that whatever they put in their body is their responsibility. If the player is unsure then he can ask the NFL to test it before using it. It is not rocket science. He tested positive for something that was illegal according to the NFL. He doesn't have a doctor's note. It is the end of the story. Look at Braun in MLB. He got off on a technicality the first time but proved to be an idiot anyway.

He is a hell of a player and someone that I hope will get his shit together but it is a privilege not a right to play in the NFL.
16 ng/ml (or 13.6)  
GIANTSr01 : 7/29/2014 4:53 pm : link
is pretty significant and definitely not from "2nd hand smoke". For reference, you can get a DUI in Colorado if the concentration is above 5 ng/ml
DUI - ( New Window )
RE: 16 ng/ml (or 13.6)  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 7/29/2014 4:56 pm : link
In comment 11785856 GIANTSr01 said:
Quote:
is pretty significant and definitely not from "2nd hand smoke". For reference, you can get a DUI in Colorado if the concentration is above 5 ng/ml DUI - ( New Window )


Well that doesn't make any sense. You can get a DUI for not being under the influence of anything?
robbie  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 4:57 pm : link
To me it's not a moral issue, it's a "best interests" issue. It doesn't hurt my feelings that Gordon is on the shelf, but he was a breakout star last year and sitting him is bad for business. If it was for hard drugs or PEDs I don't think people would be as upset, but for a substance on which the ground has shifted since the concluding of that CBA it seems excessive, especially when under that aforementioned subjective personal conduct policy people who do much worse get slapped on the wrists.
RE: RE: 16 ng/ml (or 13.6)  
GIANTSr01 : 7/29/2014 4:59 pm : link
In comment 11785858 Giants Fan in Steelers Land said:
Quote:
In comment 11785856 GIANTSr01 said:


Quote:


is pretty significant and definitely not from "2nd hand smoke". For reference, you can get a DUI in Colorado if the concentration is above 5 ng/ml DUI - ( New Window )



Well that doesn't make any sense. You can get a DUI for not being under the influence of anything?


Huh? While most articles I've seen on the subject state more research needs to be done, there was some research that showed impairment when the concentration of THC in the blood was above 5 ng/ml. How is that "not being under the influence of anything"?
presumably because you can test positive at that level  
Blue Baller : 7/29/2014 5:02 pm : link
weeks after you last smoked
You can fail a blood test a week or even longer after putting THC  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 7/29/2014 5:06 pm : link
In your system so that seems flawed
RE: robbie  
robbieballs2003 : 7/29/2014 5:44 pm : link
In comment 11785859 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
To me it's not a moral issue, it's a "best interests" issue. It doesn't hurt my feelings that Gordon is on the shelf, but he was a breakout star last year and sitting him is bad for business. If it was for hard drugs or PEDs I don't think people would be as upset, but for a substance on which the ground has shifted since the concluding of that CBA it seems excessive, especially when under that aforementioned subjective personal conduct policy people who do much worse get slapped on the wrists.


Bad business is changing things as you go along, not respecting the CBA and treating stars different than everybody else. How many other bad precedents can you set?
I have no problem with the league's policy  
Mike in NY : 7/29/2014 6:27 pm : link
I am also against any effort to legalize marijuana. I have seen people progress from marijuana to heroin, psychedellics, etc. and die due to an overdose. Moreover, after speaking with my father who is a physician, there is maybe one scenario where the supposed benefits of marijuana cannot be provided by an existing drug. That one scenario is where a man who, due to cancer treatment, has lost too much of an appetite and doctors do not want to risk a feeding tube. In women there is hormone that can be prescribed, but there is no counterpart for men
Wasn't Will Hill  
St. Jimmy : 7/29/2014 6:57 pm : link
going to beat his suspension because it was second hand smoke?
yet another question  
newmike2 : 7/29/2014 8:47 pm : link
if you know the stuff is hot and you can't use it, why risk it? These guys are behaving in a way that would lead one to believe that there is some sort of addiction... they don't seem to be able to stop using something that is still a federal crime and has been banned by their employer.
Folks  
jc in c-ville : 7/29/2014 11:14 pm : link
The leagues policy is based on the last agreed CBA as it pertains to drug testing.

No?

Those that represent the players, pushed those to come to an agreement.

The Commish just can't reduce/add penalty based on an agreed upon sanction.

The wife beating/ etc. is more of a judgmental process. No?

Maybe I'm missing something here?

Perhaps the CBA in the NBA has it right? Much like the NFL, they know the players they represent, a great many, love to smoke weed, so, somehow, they get past it.
They could reduce punishments for THC by agreement...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2014 11:19 pm : link
based on changed circumstances. I doubt the NFLPA would put up too much of a fight, and the league could shut up the critics who say that toking is worse in the NFL's eyes than DV or DUI.
Perhaps  
jc in c-ville : 7/29/2014 11:25 pm : link
But those rep the players were so hurry to get a deal done and reduce 2/days in training camp that perhaps they overlooked this.

How the hell is it no one in the NBA get suspended for weed?

HOW !!!!!!!
RE: It's utter  
mattlawson : 7/30/2014 7:35 am : link
In comment 11785818 BigRoss71 said:
Quote:
bullshit that the league still has penalties for marijuana use while knocking out your fiancé only yields a 2 game suspension. If it affects your performance negatively, then the consequences will follow (like your next contract, playing time, getting cut etc), but it should not be a league suspension.

I think Gordon is a young man who has a wild side, and really needs to be more responsible with alcohol. But i couldn't care less about any player smoking weed.



FTW
RE: RE: It's utter  
Cam in MO : 7/30/2014 8:45 am : link
In comment 11786345 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 11785818 BigRoss71 said:


Quote:


bullshit that the league still has penalties for marijuana use while knocking out your fiancé only yields a 2 game suspension. If it affects your performance negatively, then the consequences will follow (like your next contract, playing time, getting cut etc), but it should not be a league suspension.

I think Gordon is a young man who has a wild side, and really needs to be more responsible with alcohol. But i couldn't care less about any player smoking weed.




FTW


Complete bullshit.

The two are not comparable for a variety of reasons.

The first being what that duned laid out above- One has specific rules in place, the other is a judgement call- very subjective vs. very objective rules and penalties.

The second, and the one that folks love to ignore is that even were they comparable based on the rules in place, one is a first time offense and the other is multiple offenses.

When you consider the latter fact, it is quite obvious the NFL absolutely DOES "CARE MORE" ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE as the first time you are caught smoking weed all you get is additional drug testing- the first time you're caught knocking your wife out you get a two game suspension.

Hopefully he  
Metnut : 7/30/2014 9:15 am : link
beats the suspension. Gordon isn't a sympathetic person here, but I'll root for any anti-marijuana policy to fail every time.

If it's true that Gordon has multiple witnesses that can say that right before the test at issue he was only around smoke 2nd hand, and if he has a legitimate technical witness saying that his level of thc could've been caused by 2nd hand smoke, he'll have a shot to beat this, or at least get the NFL to play ball. I believe that the NFL's policy specifically states that they don't intend to punish anyone for 2nd hand smoke.
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