NFT: Phillies at Mets Game 2

From Rubin.....

Wilmer Flores starts at shortstop on Tuesday at Citi Field, and actually has started three of past six games at the position.

Aggressively asked why Flores is not the regular at the position over Ruben Tejada, Terry Collins lost his patience pregame.

Wilmer Flores
Wilmer Flores
#4 SS
New York Mets
2014 STATS
GM
27
HR
1
RBI
7
R
5
OBP
.244
AVG
.218Collins noted Flores only came up because the Mets wanted a hedge because Tejada was drilled in the helmet with a 94 mph fastball last Wednesday in Seattle. And Collins noted the Mets are playing just fine overall, even though it was noted to the manager that Tejada is slumping (4-for-38 over his last 14 games).

Here's the transcript:

Reporter: "When you take a look at Wilmer Flores, when he was up here in May, when he played in five consecutive games, he hit. When he plays every other game he doesn't hit. Is now the time to see what Flores can do on an everyday basis?"

Collins: "It all depends where you're going to play him."

Reporter: "You don't have confidence in him at shortstop?"

Collins: "No, no. I didn't say that. The other kid [Tejada] is playing pretty good. I don't know what games you've been watching, but we've been playing pretty good lately."

Reporter: "He's 3-for-29."

Collins: "We're playing pretty good lately. You know, Ike Davis wasn't hitting and we were winning games. So you pick and choose your spots. Wilmer came up because Ruben got beaned, so we were concerned about having a backup. So that's why he's here. There were no instructions to play him everyday. We're going to try to get him at-bats. That's why he's in there today."

Reporter: "What do you need to see from him to keep him in the lineup everyday?"

Collins: "Nothing from him. We've got to figure out if he is going to be the shortstop, or if the other guy is going to be the shortstop."

to the beat reporter for asking those questions.

I'd rather Flores get most of the playing time at SS unless he was a disaster there, but it's not going to happen unless he gets hot at the MLB level. How about he goes 3/4 with two 2Bs tonight and the Mets win?

But Hamels has been on a roll.

legitimate question. Let him go back to being a Farm Coordinator if he can't take the heat

again, the "he's 3 for 29" might be my favorite line of the day. Great job reporter!

in the off-season -

I think this could get it done: Syndergaard, Plawecki, Flores and one of Ynoa/Tapia/Fulmer - That's two first year MLB Starters that will cost nothing for the next 3 years, plus a top 5 MLB SP Prospect.

Dickey, for comparison, coming off a Cy Young netted a top C prospect and Syndergaard (who at the time was not nearly as highly rated as he is now) and Dickey did not have nearly the contract that Tulo has now nor the injury risk.

Miguel Cabrera when he was traded from the Marlins to Detroit, was had with Dontrelle WIllis, for Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller (and a few other throw-in prospects) - that's two top prospects and a few filler prospects. For Tulo with his contract and injury concerns we would be throwing two top prospects (syndergaard, plawecki) a B to B+ prospect (Flores) and a throw in prospect (Ynoa/Fulmer/Tapia)

I don't know what other teams are going to top that offer who are desperate for a SS. The teams most desperate for a SS after the season is really the Yankees (who don't have prospects), Orioles (who can't match out prospects and don't really have an offense problem), Pirates (who could match our prospects but may not want to take on that salary) - the remaining teams don't have a need for a SS, can't afford him, or Tulo would tell the owner he wouldn't go to (assuming the owner has the relationship it is claimed he has)

pissy when asked about Tejada

Would you do Syndergaard, Plawecki, Flores and MONTERO?

I would sign for that today to get the deal done

He got a pass all these years because expectations were so low. Now that the Mets are finally showing some signs, he is starting to get called on his bad strategy

even super-sycophant Matt Cerrone has started to make some critical comments

Harvey
Wheeler
deGrom
Gee
Niese
Montero
Syndergaard
Matz

I just don't trust that both niese and gee will stay healthy a full season, and with harvey coming off TJS, and deGrom and Syndergaard probably on innings limits, and Wheeler still young. I want to maintain the depth. I would substitute Wilmer and Ynoa/Fulmer/Tapia for a Dilson Herrera type or Nimmo. But looking at the Rockies farm system, they have some good power arms, and adding someone like syndegaard gives them a lot of hard throwers they are looking for - but they have no Catcher and could use depth in the infield, which is why i chose the players i did

In comment 11785914 CMicks3110 said:

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in the off-season - I think this could get it done: Syndergaard, Plawecki, Flores and one of Ynoa/Tapia/Fulmer - That's two first year MLB Starters that will cost nothing for the next 3 years, plus a top 5 MLB SP Prospect. Dickey, for comparison, coming off a Cy Young netted a top C prospect and Syndergaard (who at the time was not nearly as highly rated as he is now) and Dickey did not have nearly the contract that Tulo has now nor the injury risk. Miguel Cabrera when he was traded from the Marlins to Detroit, was had with Dontrelle WIllis, for Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller (and a few other throw-in prospects) - that's two top prospects and a few filler prospects. For Tulo with his contract and injury concerns we would be throwing two top prospects (syndergaard, plawecki) a B to B+ prospect (Flores) and a throw in prospect (Ynoa/Fulmer/Tapia) I don't know what other teams are going to top that offer who are desperate for a SS. The teams most desperate for a SS after the season is really the Yankees (who don't have prospects), Orioles (who can't match out prospects and don't really have an offense problem), Pirates (who could match our prospects but may not want to take on that salary) - the remaining teams don't have a need for a SS, can't afford him, or Tulo would tell the owner he wouldn't go to (assuming the owner has the relationship it is claimed he has)

Miggy at the time was 24 years old and was a top ten player already and pre-FA. You would absolutely make that trade 10 out of 10 times.

I just think one of Gee or Neise is going to have to get traded eventually. Harvey, Wheeler, and deGrom are locks. Neise and Gee are locks too if all 5 are healthy. We have to clear a spot for Syndergaard. Montero, Matz and others can pitch in AAA and be ready for depth but you have to clear a spot for Thor at some point next year.

our farm away for a player in his 30's with 7 years left on his deal. Its ludicrous to even think it in "Sandy's World" In fact I highly doubt the report the other day Sandy has offered Syndergaard at all. Just not his MO IMO. Now a lesser package for Cargo? Much more realistic.

It's like Wilmah burned down Collins' entire home or something.

are on any sort of innings limit next year. Maybe Syndergaard barely. Harvey probably will be even though there is zero scientific evidence to back up that even thats necessary. If the Mets follow suit with what most teams have guessed is appropriate.. he'll pitch between 160-180.

In comment 11785941 arcarsenal said:

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It's like Wilmah burned down Collins' entire home or something.

I don't get it. He seems like such a good kid too.

but I think you can get him relatively cheaply. I think Nimmo/Montero would get it done. I would not trade any of the big 4 (Matz,Syndgaard, Wheeler/deGrom) for Cargo

Syndegaard, Plawecki, and Flores + a C level prospect is not trading our farm.

We'd still have Matz, Montero, Conforto, Dom Smith, Nimmo, Herrera, and Rosario, all who are top 150 prospects.

When Davis wasn't hitting we were still winning? What kind of answer is that? Is he referring to last year or the first 2 weeks of the season?

Yeah and I do make that trade but its sounding like that won't even be enough.

if we sweep the Phillies and Tulo is a Met Thursday Citifield is PACKED this weekend!

very unlikely though. Not even sure the Rockies really want to trade him. I think they want him to demand a trade first so he's the bad guy and they'll consider it in the offseason. Cargo is having a shitty year though, is not the face of the franchise, and would be a nice get and add to this lineup.

Tulo isn't even healthy yet. Wont be back for a few weeks.

the rockies are 3-4 years at best away from being a competitive team, they need to develop their pitching and they have none right now. As they lose more, their revenue will dry up the contracts of two cornerstone players (CarGo and Tulo) are being wasted on a team that is not close to peaking. They have a cornerstone player in his prime signed to a contract below his market value (if you compare him to Cano - he's half the price), they are not winning with him now, might as well maximize his value

to sell tickets during the down years. See David Wright.

. Fantastic what he's saying about Cambell, Young, Flores, Tejada, and Duda. Amen.

The health just really concerns me. I have zero worries about his hitting being an issue here but if we're going to give up a Thor-centric package for someeone, I'd just see if Miami would budge on Stanton (I know they're not looking to move him, but..) and if not, maybe just try to find an upgrade without going insane.

We need a bat. If you don't want him then don't complain about tejada playing everyday. Tulo will pay for himself in tickets sales alone.

that really you need to have 7 starters. 5 in the big leagues and a couple of others at AAA. Mets have already used 3 AAA starters this year. What's to say next year will be any different?

Especially true of the Mets, with Niese and Gee both having a history of injuries. I don't think you can really count on both of those guys staying healthy.

Cminetti...he will sell boatloads of tickets, and the contract will pay for itself. Plus, just reading about how competitive Tulo is, you combine him with other ultra competitors like wright, murphy, harvey, deGrom, and Mejia. I think its great for the clubhouse. I want someone who is a huge leader like that. Troy Tulowitzki - Hardest Worker in Sports
http://www.mlbplayerworkouts.com/trot-tulowitzki - ( New Window )

Quote:

Tulowitzki, who leads all shortstops in RBI since the start of 2007, is motivated by perceived snubs. He remains miffed that he wasn't drafted out of high school and remembers his fifth-grade teacher — Kelvin Walker — scolded him for saying he wanted to be a big-leaguer when he grew up. "It still eats at me today," Tulowitzki says, "not getting drafted out of high school. You're telling me that for 50 rounds, no one drafts you, and three years later you're a first rounder? Even telling people in elementary school you want to be a big-league ballplayer, and they're saying, 'Let's pick something realistic.' "Those things stick with you. I still keep those things in the back of my head. They help make me the player I am." Even if it means that vacation can wait for another 10 years or so.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/rockies/2011-05-09-troy-tulowitzki-star_N.htm - ( New Window )

In comment 11785977 oipolloi said:

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that really you need to have 7 starters. 5 in the big leagues and a couple of others at AAA. Mets have already used 3 AAA starters this year. What's to say next year will be any different? Especially true of the Mets, with Niese and Gee both having a history of injuries. I don't think you can really count on both of those guys staying healthy.

This is true but its not like you are starting Neise or Gee in AAA either. A guy like Hefner, a couple of Dice K types invited to spring training, PLUS a pretty good prospect or two in AAA is more than enough. The Mets definitely will have a jam next year. There isn't enough room for everyone.

but I think we can win without him as well. I love this rotation we have been building up and its finally ready to take center stage. Not sure I want to trade Thor. Play Flores for the next two months and lets at least see what we have there. Suppose he's a future all-star?

In comment 11785973 cminetti5 said:

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We need a bat. If you don't want him then don't complain about tejada playing everyday. Tulo will pay for himself in tickets sales alone.

This is silly logic. We can't upgrade SS if we don't trade for Tulo?

I'd love to keep Thor too, but you add a Tulo to the lineup, it changes the whole dynamic of the team. We generate the kind of revenues we have the potential to generate with our pitching staff and an everyday lineup featuring tulo, wright, murphy, d'arnaud, granderson, and duda and we can go out next year and buy another pitcher to go along with that team and still have only about a 120 million payroll.

through the season, the last time we had a winning season - in 2008, we drew 4 million people. If we draw just a million more people next year, that's an additional, assuming about $40 spent per ticket (which i'm not sure is a reasonable price) and you're talking about another $40 million that can be spent. I know its the Wilpons, but if you believe what Fred has said in the past, that he runs the Mets as a 'break-even' business and we've been leaking money for the last few years, if we generate greater revenue, we can spend more money

No doubt about it. But there is certainly some risk involved. The guy is a year younger then Wright and has been injured a lot. He gets paid a lot and is under contract for a long time. And then on top of all that we'd have to trade away 4 prospects? I just don't think its very realistic. Sandy would never do that.

And again what if Flores busts out? Flores and Cargo for 60 million/4 years and keeping Thor and others or Tulo and MDD in LF for 140 million and 7 years and Thor and others gone? IDK. I really don't.

almost everyone feels he'll be able to be traded in August like Byrd last year so why not wait a month?

Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Neise, Gee, Colon, Syndergaard, Montero, Hefner, Verrett, and eventually Matz fighting for spots next year. That's 11 starters and not even factoring the Dice K types.

Its nice to have insurance but that's ridiculous.

more suitors, probably after the first round of free agents signed and teams are trying to fill out their rosters. I think that's when he has the most value. He's not a valuable playoff pitcher IMO. He's a great innings eater - a good 3 or 4 at this point in his career. Teams need that, but the teams looking for SP right now are the ones who want top end ones. Sure if the Royals or Giants want to throw a real good prospect at us, i'd do that, but I think we get more in january

i'm more high on Mazzoni - he's got a major league fastball and has a good k rate in the minors, just needs to work on spotting his pitchers better.

are not on the level as the others but when talking about insurance and depth to guard against injury they absolutely can be factored in. Both are likely backend starters but thats fine for filling in for a bit here and there. Verrett has been a top 25 prospect in the Mets system and is holding his own decently in Vegas. Hefner I think proved he could at least be a 5th starter. And yeah I forgot about Mazzoni. He's likely a bullpen piece but he could likely fill in for a start too.

but that doesn't change my point whatsoever. I still think we should move a Gee or somebody this offseason.

Would be really sweet if 2nd half Gee from last year re-emerged right about now.

With a turd like Chris Young hitting 5th. Heh.

In comment 11786014 arcarsenal said:

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With a turd like Chris Young hitting 5th. Heh.

young been swinging well while flores has not proven anything at mlb level

Flores at SS. 2014 WS champions.

much a goner. Whether it's at the deadline or during the offseason. They aren't going to pay him. Flores will get his chance at 2nd base next year. You give him half a year. If he hits, he hits, if not hopefully Herrera will be in the picture too.

until the deadline of next season, basically a year from now and by then Herrera will be able to slide right in.

Young.