NFT: Mets - Phils - Wheeler on the hound

Vogelsong vs Niese
Peavy vs deGrom
Bumgardner vs Colon
Hudson vs Gee

I'd like to see them take 3 out of 4 against them.

just two more wins puts us at .500 right now heading into August, and that's being ultra conservative. You don't think adding an extra 15 home runs and X amount of hits might have effected all those one games at all? Its a pretty significant difference. Im a David Wright homer too but he's been bad this year. For David Wright standards. For players making 20 million a year standards. For 3rdbasman in general standards. Lets hope he snaps out of it.

gets some Savannah this year.

In comment 11787648 spike said:

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with 4 home games again the 2nd WC leader, SF Giants. Huge series this weekend. Let's see if the new Mets measure up with the better NL teams. Then 3 games at the NL East leading Nationals.

The Mets could really do some damage this month if they play pretty well. Still a stretch but they have a ton of division and meaningful games coming up. Keep winning or splitting series 2/3 or 2/4 and we'll likely be the wild card leader at the end of August.

I meant.

Rubin reporting that Harvey will take the mound next week. Clearly trying to make it back for the September playoff push. ;)

I like that he is so driven. I hope he gets his inning.

They are considering sending him to separate league September/October to get some work in. I wonder if a miracle happened and the Mets got in the race if he could join the team for the playoffs? EXTREMELY unlikely but the timeline lines up.

Simply not worth the risk but I do hope he gets his inning just so he won't have to wait another year to get that monkey off his back.

We wouldn't want him in October assuming we made it??' Even if he's pitching in another league anyway? The fans would burn city down. I know I've lost it tonight. I need some sleep. Never gonna happen. I know I know.

In comment 11787687 ZGiants98 said:

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We wouldn't want him in October assuming we made it??' Never gonna happen. I know I know.

In comment 11787679 ZGiants98 said:

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They are considering sending him to separate league September/October to get some work in. I wonder if a miracle happened and the Mets got in the race if he could join the team for the playoffs? EXTREMELY unlikely but the timeline lines up.

For a player to be eligible for the postseason roster, they must be on the active roster by August 31. So, not a possibility with Harvey.

I forgot about that. Told ya I needed sleep. That sucks. Should have had the surgery last year when I said. No idea why he waited months.

there was an injury. Then he could be activated I believe to replace the injured player.

You put him on the open market with these numbers and his contract, how many teams would be in on him? My count is 31 phone calls coming in at the same time to Anderson to see what it would take

The Mets are now 6 gb from BOTH wild card spots.

Have great series against the Giants and the Nats and get back into 500, and the Mets will be in the thick of things

Just being realistic. Odds of making the playoffs have gone from 2.5% to 2.7% this week. As well as they have looked, it's against the Phillies. As much as I would love to see a miracle, let's be realistic.

but if Duda d'Arnaud Familia Lagares Mejia Black deGrom Campbell Wheeler keep getting better over the next 2 months I'd call this a success of a season

Couldn't agree with you more HH. This year has been all about buying time and the kids getting better. Better the kids play, the less holes we have to fill, and more valuable they are in potential trades to fill the gaping holes in LF and SS.

what it's worth, the rash of 2014 TJ's and second TJ's has most teams believing they were too aggressive bringing pitchers back/pushing pitchers. Remember for a while people kept saying "some guys come back from TJ in less than 12 months". The industry is now looking at the issue a lot more conservatively with 16-18 months being the time table. Harvey for example had TJ in October, ST will be just about 16 months. You will see more and more teams slowing down the process (August was never really realistic anyway, despite Harvey being a competitive monster) but for a while people seemed to believe guys could successfully come back sooner and that backfired for many. Chris Flexen just had TJ, I suspect he's not back starting until the end of next season. for example

is despite the 2014 Mets POTENTIALLY being better with Matt Harvey (I suspect he wouldn't be very good in Sept starting as most guys have major command issues upon returning) they are much better off with him getting the full 16 months when looking at the big picture.

Let him start in AFL, offseason throwing program and a full Spring training

"fun" for 2014 aside, long run this is probably better than had he returned "quickly"... plus it's probably more "fun" having him return in a "hmmm 1-2 moves and we can be very interesting" season with full rehab vs. worrying about him pushing too hard, too quickly in a "27 things have to break right for a 1 game play-in game to happen".

Do the mets appease Harvey and the fans by allowing him his one inning before 2014 ends? Personally hope not, but if he is throwing at 90% in two months, do they do it?

inning won't make a difference either way. He's going to be "pitching" at that point either way so I wouldn't stress either way. He'd have to be a true moron to go out there and throw as hard as he can if he does get that chance. Personally for drama reasons I'd rather he not get his inning so opening day can be his triumphant return with people going ape shit. More "fun" lol

from themselves.

He shouldn't be brought up here.

Odds are he wouldn't detract from the Mets long playoff chances anyway. 9/10 TJ pitchers take time to round into shape, velocity down, control an issue etc. Not to mention, God forbid he goes out there and isn't fully ready and he's topping off at 91-92 and suddenly people are worried he will never be "Matt Harvey" again.

Pitching really isn't our issue at this point. We will win if the bats keep putting some runs on the board.

Out of curiosity, I checks worst WAR in MLB with over 200 ABs. Not NEARLY as bad as I expected, he came in as 32nd worst in the league. Basically meaning, every team has a Chris young.


CY sucks, but not as bad as 31 other players... - ( New Window )

throw 1 inning. The argument that it would give him peace of mind. He is such a tremendous competitor that I don't think he has 1 iota of doubt that he will be Matt Harvey next season

In comment 11787817 Headhunter said:

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throw 1 inning. The argument that it would give him peace of mind. He is such a tremendous competitor that I don't think he has 1 iota of doubt that he will be Matt Harvey next season

Their is a risk, no doubt. But nothing to be gained, I disagree. They throw a bone to Harvey, after fighting with him and pissing him off for a year straight. That's huge. Second, let's be realistic. Mets announce a relief inning for Harvey on Sept X, they sell thousands of tickets. An extra $250-$500k in revenue. Ticket sales, parking, concessions, tv. Lead story on espn. Lots of value tot he franchise. Last, fans feel ok about Harvey, seeing he threw an inning. Even if he got rocked, everyone will say he was rusty, etc.

Harvey's recovery and although Harvey himself is itching to compete, I think he understands that and deep down inside knows that it's best.

Odd article claiming a Kemp is the perfect acquisition. Such a strange article, then talks about CY and how difficult it is for a player to bounce back, ironically.
In the absolute best case scenario, Kemp is worth his salary the term of his contract, BEST case. Risk is so great that this can't possibly make sense for any team, yet alone the Mets.
Post article calling for kemp acquisition - ( New Window )

id be ok with it, but i cant imagine giving up prospects for the right to grossly overpay and oft injured Kemp.

Sandy quote in the Kernan piece is a bummer. Not sure why he chooses to say things like that even if true.

From an attitude standpoint. He's got an .800 OPS right now, with somewhat restricted playing time, and clearly in a situation he's not happy with. I could see him being a very good change of scenery candidate, and the reality is other than Tulo he's the only other attainable guy in his prime who has been a legitimate MVP candidate (maybe CarGo?).

Obviously the Dodgers are in a bind so it only makes sense if they throw in some $ and it doesn't cost anything valuable. He's got 106/5 years remaining, if that came down to being on the hook for 5/75 you're basically talking about the amount of money they gave Granderson per year. That would also be less than CarGo per season. I think you could make a good case Kemp would outproduce CarGo here offensively, and he might even be less injury prone.

End of the day I think the fact that the Mets likely wouldn't want Kemp in CF is a big sticking point, along with the $, and the Dodgers send him somewhere like Boston where he'll end up having a big resurgence.

In comment 11787883 DanMetroMan said:

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Sandy quote in the Kernan piece is a bummer. Not sure why he chooses to say things like that even if true.

I think it's just his dry sense of humor to deflect and manage people's expectations. The reality is he has a lower than it should be budget he has to work with thanks to unfit owners, and it's probably just as frustrating to him as it is the fans.

there will be no Kemp, Tulo, CarGo types added without a decent payroll increase. Numbers just don't work out.

Obviously his point is clear, increased payroll or not. But in fantasy land if the Mets pick up a Goldschmidt or other star player on a cheap salary - it makes picking up another $20mm less necessary. Yet at the same time, a star on cheap $$ makes it more likely a $20mm salary can fit in the budget.

One other point. Mets acquire a $20mm guy, particularly an OF, and Grandy gets moved in the offseason. Guess what. No more 20,20,15. Just 20,20, __. this is why dumping Colon is vital in freeing up &11m. And moving Murphy and Flores stepping up is big too.

Not trying to sidetrack that thread, now with the Lester trade especially. But I disagree on your thoughts on Legares. He is what he is, maybe too many Mets fans got overly excited and thought he was a star in the making. He is an elite glove, with an OK bat.

His defense from last year to this year is identical expect for two things. One, no one is running on him this year. We knew that would happen. problem is, his defensive metrics were heavily weighted to that arm. there is no metric that measures a guy stopping at 2nd or 3rd because Legares got a ball. That is literally his entire difference in defensive metrics this year. The second is, he made a few more spectacular catches last year than this year - the wow moments stick.

Offensively, he has shown a little bit of improvement. Not a lot, nor should we expect a lot immediately. re his BABIP - he should be a high BABIP. I believe he always had a high one in the minors, and this year I guarantee his line drive rate is substantially higher than last years (would check to confirm, too lazy to be honest).

nothing in his numbers really suggests improvement. I hate that I sound like I'm hating on Lagares when the truth is I like him but I think a lot of people expected some sort of offensive improvement/breakout but the BB rate is identical, the K rate is, the power is slightly down, his average has dropped 23 points in the last 6 weeks and with such an average dependent player that's not very good. He basically adds ZERO offensive value unless singles are falling in. It's a tough offensive profile to have.


"Lagares, who sees only 3.80 pitches per plate appearance, has swung at pitches outside of the strike zone 37.4 percent of the time since his return, according to FanGraphs. That number is well above the league average of 30.7 percent. In comparison, Lagares swung at pitches outside of the strike zone 34.6 percent of the time before he landed on the disabled list on June 2.

Lagares also has swung at 51.3 percent of the pitches he's seen, which is an increase from when he swung at 44.7 percent. "When you try to do too much, you chase a lot," Lagares said."

I look at Legares like I do Tejada. A defensive position that needs to add more.
Legares is a far superior fielder to Tejada. A far superior hitter, but Tejada is far more patient so I will call it a wash. Lageres has more pop. More speed. Better baserunner.
So all of the problems with Tejada, Legares isn't. Tejada is always bashed as a light hitter who adds nothing else, Legares is a light hitter who adds a lot of the other things. He's valuable. Not a star. Not irreplaceable with a better player. But he isn't a problem to carry for another couple of years while you build a team.

With an offensive catcher, an average LF replacement, and an average SS replacement... Batting Legares 7th or 8th is fullya cceptable. Black hole at SS, LF and C that we have had up until now - that wasn't acceptable.

Totally. If you see him as a 7th-8th hitter with elite defense who gives you SOME offense then absolutely he's what should be "hoped for". I meant for those who expect him to be a 2-6 hitter, an offensive "plus". If he's going to be that, it hasn't happened to this point.

Re the Sandy quote: It's disappointing, but at least he is being honest. Not sure I can tolerate being a Mets fan if we wont spend when the circumstances call for it. Mets could easily be a top 5 revenue team. They have the young nucleus in place and coming along to compete for a playoff spot year in, year out. If we shot our money wad on Granderson, and there is no more money for upgrades, I'm pretty sure my interest will wane.

NYPost: Has been very aggressive in advocating that the Mets are in some sort of window. Absolute bullshit. Mets are approaching a window, but this season isnt it.But Matt Kemp isnt the answer, and to play him off of Chris Young is just ignorant. Matt Kemp is not a worthwhile gamble for any team other than the unlimited payroll types like LA and NYY. And if the Dodgers are picking up a lot of his salary, he's going to be too expensive in prospects. And my understanding is that he has been consistently horrible in the field, even if his -2.7 dWAR is taken with a grain of salt.

can any of the 22 dwarfs play LF?

In comment 11788064 DanMetroMan said:

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Totally. If you see him as a 7th-8th hitter with elite defense who gives you SOME offense then absolutely he's what should be "hoped for". I meant for those who expect him to be a 2-6 hitter, an offensive "plus". If he's going to be that, it hasn't happened to this point.

I personally assume a player is what he has shown he is. And hopeful he can become a percentage of what his potential is. I don't view Legares star as shining overly bright, I'm content with what he is. The "but" is, that is assuming you don't rely on him as a hitter and build a better lineup than we have had (TDA an improvement over Buck, etc. Anything is an improvement over Tejada. You or I are an improvement over CY)

In comment 11788086 feelflows said:

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can any of the 22 dwarfs play LF?

LOL

I'm sure Sandy's quote gave some of our midgets in the minors some extra hope. Centeno, Quintanilla, Herrera, Phil Evans, and Biondi. Poor Dash Wingham - his dreams have come to an end.

I get that he made the soundbyte, but he shouldn't take the blame.

I didn't realize herrera was so tiny

On a guy in his first full year is that he is still learning. I'm not saying he will grow monumentally as a hitter, hell he might even get worst, but twice now this year Collins(one of the few things he's gotten right) has seen Lagares being overly aggressive and has given him a day off. Both times after a conscious effort to slow it down a bit he's come back hitting. Where's the metrics that take stuff like that into account?? I don't see Lagares as much more than a 7th/8th hitter but considering his defense I'll be thrilled if he can hit .270/.280 with a little pop once in a while. It's not impossible he can learn to be a little more patient either. We carried Ordonez for how many years because of his defense? And he could barely hit his weight.