NFT: Mets - Phils - Wheeler on the hound

and keep the mo going towards the Giants series

It was sure nice of Collins to give him the night off against a tough pitcher.

In comment 11786810 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

It was sure nice of Collins to give him the night off against a tough pitcher.

Collins is really such an asshole. He is supposed to be building for the future. Yet, he keeps running Chris Young out there, who is awful and will not be with the team next year.

The Tejada/Flores stuff has moved from the ridiculous to the absurd.

This guy is the worst manager in baseball. Not coincidentally, he is also one of the lowest paid

When will we be done with this moron?

through next season.

they'll want a better option at the helm next season as the team moves closer to being a contender. IMO they only retained him this year once Harvey went down and they decided not to open the coffers in free agency.

he's actually intentionally putting in Tejada against easier pitchers and Flores in vs. tougher ones to justify Tejada's playing time? I'm certainly not a Collins fan, but that seems sort of ridiculous to believe.

.

Collins were to be replaced I would hope they would go with someone with a modicum of MLB success and not Backman (sorry to the Wally crowd).

That is why I wanted Wally to replace Collins this season so the Mets could see what he does with the ML team and evaluate prior to next season. Next season once Harvey is back and hopefully that added another player in the OF they will go with someone with a track record. That is if they replace Collins, I am not convinced that is going to happen.

.

In comment 11786850 Metnut said:

Quote:

he's actually intentionally putting in Tejada against easier pitchers and Flores in vs. tougher ones to justify Tejada's playing time? I'm certainly not a Collins fan, but that seems sort of ridiculous to believe.

Yeah it is. People complain when Flores isn't in the line up, than they complain when he is in the line up. I've never so much agita over the playing time of two guys hitting under .230.

yeah I'd really like to hit the ground running next year so I'd like a manager who has shown some ability to win at this level. I'm not anti-Backman in general but not really looking for yet another "rebuilding" year.

In comment 11786939 butler said:

Quote:

In comment 11786850 Metnut said: Quote: he's actually intentionally putting in Tejada against easier pitchers and Flores in vs. tougher ones to justify Tejada's playing time? I'm certainly not a Collins fan, but that seems sort of ridiculous to believe. Yeah it is. People complain when Flores isn't in the line up, than they complain when he is in the line up. I've never so much agita over the playing time of two guys hitting under .230.

I don't understand it either.

Yeah, but I worry they will keep Collins. The one thing you can compliment him for is that the players seem to like him and will play hard and never quit. So if they play fairly well the rest of the way I am not convinced he is replaced.

.

has ever complained when seeing Wilmer Flores' name in the lineup.

In comment 11786977 Deloatch's Ghost said:

Quote:

has ever complained when seeing Wilmer Flores' name in the lineup.

In last night's thread there were complaints about Flores having to be in the lineup against a really good pitcher.

So Collins pushed the right buttons today at least.

LETS GO METS!

4-1 Mets!

Kyle Kendrick would be the worst stating pitcher in baseball.

I was afraid that Kendrick would pull a game out of his ass. Murph took care of that! Now win this damn thing.

but whereas I'm ROOTING for them to win every game, I'm more interested this year in how the players develop.

I'm thrilled with Wheeler, win/lose or draw. This rotation has the potential to be exciting next year.

Despite the lineup and in game management complaints, wheeler and duda did get better under his watch.

as I type that Tom McCarthy was talking about the wheeler trade.. "he's still just a .500 pitcher"..

dude.. he's a young pitcher on a crappy team. relax lol

is an auto-mute for me.

OMO Duda benefited tremendously from the Ike trade and finally being able to get comfortable knowing the position was his. Plus replacing the hitting coach seems to have helped the team in general.

as any indication of pitcher skill level should be suspended and given a 10 day course in sabermetrics.

.

was terrible and a hard listen. I'm glad he doesn't do Mets games anymore. It's appropriate that he commentates for the team that has Amaro as GM.

McCarthy is by far the worst thing in the organization. On another board, theres a contest where you drink a shot, everytime McCarthy says something dumb or wrong.

I would bet you would be comatosed by the 4th inning from all the drinking.

we all remember how miserable he is from his Mets days.

other team hits a HR and it sounds like he had to put a pet down.

we know.. he graced he presence with the Mets for a bit.

I remember turning on the game late... Mets hit a HR, he was VERY excited...

"and now the score is 11-1, Braves"

In comment 11787060 feelflows said:

Quote:

we know.. he graced he presence with the Mets for a bit. I remember turning on the game late... Mets hit a HR, he was VERY excited... "and now the score is 11-1, Braves"

LOL

It hit off the orange line for a HR.

No fucknut..... if it hits the orangle line, its still in play.

because his voice was similar to a previous guy in the radio booth. That had to be the only reason why.

already at 109 pitches

3 lefties coming up

Ben Revere seems to have tweaked his back!!

I think that he's the most hated player in Philadelphia.

In comment 11786987 butler said:

Quote:

In comment 11786977 Deloatch's Ghost said: Quote: has ever complained when seeing Wilmer Flores' name in the lineup. In last night's thread there were complaints about Flores having to be in the lineup against a really good pitcher.

Um, no there wasn't. I dont think ive seen a single complaint about Flores being in the lineup...EVER. So, not sure where you are seeing that at all.

What I dont get is the people that are content with Tejada getting any playing time over Flores. Thats the mind boggling part.

.

Would have been the better choice despite last night

he had no feel whatsoever

Can't waste his appearance with just one batter

has developed into a valuable reliever.

He's still 24 years old, is this it for him?

Not complaining just wondering.

I know he was a one-time starter and then potential closer, late inning relievers are needed too, but is this where he winds up?

where he is, unless Mejia fails or gets injured. Same with Vic Black.

eventually traded to a team that needs a closer, probably or wants to take a chance on him starting.

my guess

In comment 11787106 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

What I dont get is the people that are content with Tejada getting any playing time over Flores. Thats the mind boggling part.

For me it isn't about being content but more apathetic to it because it doesn't baffle me as to why Collins gives Tejada more playing time. With the situation as it is Flores simply needs to make it harder for Collins to not finds way to get him more at bats. He is far from the first young player to face this hurdle and won't be the last.

In comment 11787118 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

has developed into a valuable reliever. He's still 24 years old, is this it for him? Not complaining just wondering. I know he was a one-time starter and then potential closer, late inning relievers are needed too, but is this where he winds up?

He's a future closer. I would honestly try mejia as a starter again. Thought familia was leading off the inning.

and has really taken to it. Why would you want to switch him yet again to a starter at this point?

Great insurance policy for Mejia - as both unquestionably have closer stuff, but have yet to prove they can handle the big stage.

everytime I see Tim Teufel I chuckle.

Phillies are imploding

.

Like this game is over. Mets batting around in the 7th

"tejada with 3 hits today.. he can't hit against anyone else, but he can sure hit the Phillies"

awesome

Familia!!!

way to go! 1st hit? 1st RBI?? I wonder

career 2-3 .667 average

Familia-Mejia need to stay where they are. Having a reliable 8th and 9th inning guy together like that is a very valuable asset. You tell your SP you just need him to get you through 6.. you mix and match your MRP's to get through the 7th and then you go to Jeurys/Jenrry to slam the door.

I think Black's stuff is just as/almost as good as those two.

It's not a bad problem to have. Bullpens can come together fast. In April, everyone was cursing Alderson saying "he STILL hasn't fixed the fucking bullpen!"

I was mad, too. I thought it was going to be a problem again all year.

where they can find a dominant left handed middle reliever.

next year Parnell and Hefner in the pen

In comment 11787106 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

Um, no there wasn't. I dont think ive seen a single complaint about Flores being in the lineup...EVER. So, not sure where you are seeing that at all. What I dont get is the people that are content with Tejada getting any playing time over Flores. Thats the mind boggling part.

You complain about Flores getting the start against Hamels in this thread! I just don't get that. Why wouldn't you want him to face a good pitcher?

It's mind boggling people would not be upset over a guy hitting .222 with 1 hr, 7 RBI's and 3 walks not playing every day?

Duda LAUNCHED that.

jeez

In comment 11787157 feelflows said:

Quote:

I think Black's stuff is just as/almost as good as those two.

Black-Familia-Mejia as your 7-8-9 inning guys as a group is just about as good as any in baseball.

They just need to boost the offense and they will be in contention for years.

I'm not worthy!

for the next series.

of pen talent. That's what happens when you have lots of SP prospects -- you end up with some starters hopefully, but always some decent options for the pen.

We might even be able to trade a RHP RP this offseason for help elsewhere. Would be great to see Parnell come back 100% -- get 6 great innings from young/recovering/brittle guys and turn things over to a reliable pen.

away Gee? He has a bit of injury issues and we have a glut of good young right handers in the organization.

aumont guy is brutal

You seriously can't figure out why people want to see Wilmer Flores get a shot to play SS instead of Ruben Tejada?

Aumont is in, the Phillis are basically conceding

I can understand the Tejada fatigue. It feels like he's been here forever hitting .240 with mediocre defense. But half the posts in game threads are about Flores/Tejada and Flores is having about as bad a year at the plate as you can have. I can't get worked up about our battle to hit 8th in the lineup. If Flores wants to be in the lineup he needs to get on base more when he plays.

To me the anger would be better served at the organization for saddling Collins with these options in the first place.

Is a back-up at best with a spot start here and there. Him having 3 hits today doesn't change that.

In comment 11787156 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Familia-Mejia need to stay where they are. Having a reliable 8th and 9th inning guy together like that is a very valuable asset. You tell your SP you just need him to get you through 6.. you mix and match your MRP's to get through the 7th and then you go to Jeurys/Jenrry to slam the door.

Then trade Parnell?

if he's healthy he's at worst an 8th inning guy and Vic Black is 8th inning guy/closer potential too.

All these guys have 8th inning/closer potential and would be wasted in long/middle relief roles:

Parnell
Mejia
Familia
Black

I'm not saying to trade anyone, just not sure how you keep them all and keep them happy.

In comment 11787205 butler said:

Quote:

I can understand the Tejada fatigue. It feels like he's been here forever hitting .240 with mediocre defense. But half the posts in game threads are about Flores/Tejada and Flores is having about as bad a year at the plate as you can have. I can't get worked up about our battle to hit 8th in the lineup. If Flores wants to be in the lineup he needs to get on base more when he plays. To me the anger would be better served at the organization for saddling Collins with these options in the first place.

Flores has has 90 at-bats in spot-starting/back up role.

You're not serious are you?

you know he had a .935 OPS in AAA. You can add tejada's last two seasons OPS together and it's just barely over .935 (ok slight exaggeration, but he's not good and Flores could be).

In comment 11787168 butler said:

Quote:

In comment 11787106 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: Um, no there wasn't. I dont think ive seen a single complaint about Flores being in the lineup...EVER. So, not sure where you are seeing that at all. What I dont get is the people that are content with Tejada getting any playing time over Flores. Thats the mind boggling part. You complain about Flores getting the start against Hamels in this thread! I just don't get that. Why wouldn't you want him to face a good pitcher? It's mind boggling people would not be upset over a guy hitting .222 with 1 hr, 7 RBI's and 3 walks not playing every day?

Well, then you missed the blatantly obvious sarcasm...same as last night.

I dont want to get too deep into this again because its beating a dead horse...but, Flores has raked at every level consistently for years. Yet, he gets hardly any playing time. Im not surprised his numbers arent great - he barely plays. We know what Tejada is - an adequate defender and very poor hitter (even with todays performance). Let the kid play.

Thats all I will say about that, because we've been through this enough.

In comment 11787209 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

All these guys have 8th inning/closer potential and would be wasted in long/middle relief roles: Parnell Mejia Familia Black I'm not saying to trade anyone, just not sure how you keep them all and keep them happy.

Problem will work itself out next year. If everyone is pitching well we can look to make a trade. If we're not contending, a healthy Parnell is either resigned as a closer or traded to a contender. Torres and Edgin have also contributed nicely. Really like Torres, as a non setup/closer reliever.

In comment 11787209 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 11787156 arcarsenal said: Quote: Familia-Mejia need to stay where they are. Having a reliable 8th and 9th inning guy together like that is a very valuable asset. You tell your SP you just need him to get you through 6.. you mix and match your MRP's to get through the 7th and then you go to Jeurys/Jenrry to slam the door. Then trade Parnell? if he's healthy he's at worst an 8th inning guy and Vic Black is 8th inning guy/closer potential too. All these guys have 8th inning/closer potential and would be wasted in long/middle relief roles: Parnell Mejia Familia Black I'm not saying to trade anyone, just not sure how you keep them all and keep them happy.

If Parnell has trade value, I'd move him without blinking.

is and I hate the cliche but relievers for the most part are fungible.

none of them have a ton of value unless they're a closer at the trade deadline to a contender in need of a closer.

is there a precedent of late inning relievers being traded for value?

In comment 11787157 feelflows said:

Quote:

I think Black's stuff is just as/almost as good as those two.

Not until he learns to control him. Right now, you have to keep him in that 7th inning roll.

In comment 11787135 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

Great insurance policy for Mejia - as both unquestionably have closer stuff, but have yet to prove they can handle the big stage.

I put him right up there with Familia right there with Harvey. Unless you're talking Stanton, got to keep him.

In comment 11787242 Rflairr said:

Quote:

In comment 11787157 feelflows said: Quote: I think Black's stuff is just as/almost as good as those two. Not until he learns to control him. Right now, you have to keep him in that 7th inning roll.

Talenttwise he's below familia but he's got closer potential. And he does need to have better control.

.864

Only Goldschidmt and Rizzo better among 1B in the NL.

In fact compare his numbers to Freddie Freeman. It might surprise you. With almost 100 less at bats.

Black is 26, but not a FA until 2020
Mejia is 24, not a FA until 2019
Familia is also 24, and not a FA until 2019

they'll all get good $$ in arbitration, but nice to have options.

Parnell is 29 and still not a FA until 2016

You know their agents want them to start, or worst case close, middle relievers must make a fraction of the money of starters and closers.

Literally 1 month ago I was crushing him because his stats were average at best, and as Francesa says seemingly "empty", but I was 100% wrong. Over this past month he has shown growth and patience that completely justify the argument the Mets tried to make in the first place - that his previous splits when he played 1B and personality indicated that he could see improvement if given time and patience in that role. He could still revert but the point is he's now shown, beyond any doubts, the promise to justify being given the bigger opportunity.

Almost hard to believe how much improvement has occurred with TDA and Duda over the last month.

No hyperbole, either.


Freeman 411 AB, 70 R, 117 H, 29 2B, 15 HR, 59 RBI, 56 BB, 91 K
Frazier 405 AB, 60 R, 113 H, 17 2B, 20 HR, 55 RBI, 33 BB, 96 K
Morneau 337 AB, 38 R, 105 H, 21 2B, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 19 BB, 40 K
Duda 319 AB, 45 R, 83 H, 22 2B, 18 HR, 57 RBI, 44 BB, 79 K
LaRoche 312 AB, 43 R, 84 H, 13 2B, 13 HR, 55 RBI, 52 BB, 67 K

If he could have LaRoche's career except with a bit more power and staying healthy, you have to love that.

100% buying Lucas Duda. His "decline" coincided with 1) being out of position 2) A return to the patient/piss over Keith/Gary/Ron approach he showed earlier in his career

knock on Duda but Frazier is doing this while playing 3b (above average there no less). Duda has been very good, Frazier significantly more valuable.

if no one else has been good for Duda. He appears to have got him away from just sitting there looking at pitches.

He attacks now. That hit against the lefty today. He didn't sit there and let the lefty get up on him with 2 strikes. He was aggressive.

In comment 11787275 EmpireWF said:

Quote:

If he could have LaRoche's career except with a bit more power and staying healthy, you have to love that.

I'd be decently happy with that. Love is a strong word. They're already similar. Laroche is a career 265/339/471/810 hitter who averages 26 HR per 162 games. Duda is a 249/345/441/786 hitter, 22 HR/162. Because Laroche played in the juiced era to start, OPS+ favors Duda 120-113. Duda's WAR this season already exceeds every WAR for Laroche except his career year in 2012.

But I'm holding out hope that Duda can be one of those "out of nowhere guys" (who arent actually out of nowhere) that puts together a solid 3-5 year stretch of star level production before fading. One of those guys with great prime years but otherwise meh career. Used to see more of this from 27-30 year olds.

used to call Duda "poor man's Giambi" as a compliment. Still think he can be that.

just tweeted that Harvey is cleared to throw on a mound.

And my eval of Duda might be a little unique. he need to play average all around 1B - that's a given offense and defense, but I don't care how he compared to GoldSchmidt, Freeman, or anyone except Ike Davis. As long as he's better than Davis this is a win-win, addition by subtraction, plus addition by addition if that makes sense.

I'm developing Man Love for Lucas Duda

really sure why (not aimed at you PJ) but for some reason people don't notice/realize/accept how great Goldschmidt is. He's one of the current GREAT offensive players in baseball. Not good, GREAT.

Duda hitting the other way, bye-bye shift. He hit a Lefty

In comment 11787340 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

really sure why (not aimed at you PJ) but for some reason people don't notice/realize/accept how great Goldschmidt is. He's one of the current GREAT offensive players in baseball. Not good, GREAT.

Who doesnt get this? He's obviously the best NL 1B over the past few seasons. Though I think offensive players get shortchanged right now because everyone still remembers the steroids era. Tough to get amped about guys leading the league in HRs w/ 36 after the Bonds/Sosa/McGwire and even Ryan Howard years.

the mets have one less hole to fill.

Duda is our 1B until Smith is ready to take over in 4-5 years

Evan Roberts for one suggested Niese and "secondary prospects" for Goldschmidt as if that was reasonable.

his shoulder isn't bothering him. Flores or Campbell can get some ab's there.

In comment 11787367 Ira said:

Quote:

his shoulder isn't bothering him. Flores or Campbell can get some ab's there.

Wright got 4 days off from the All star break. But I'm down with seeing Flores giving the captain a break

In comment 11787367 Ira said:

Quote:

his shoulder isn't bothering him. Flores or Campbell can get some ab's there.

Its not rest. He's just not the player he once was. No excuse for him now. As Granderson, Duda, and d'Arnaud are all hitting. Not acceptable, to be making 20 mill and be on pace for 12-13 HRs.

ago and it was clean. He also had a week off almost since then. I get why people want to make excuses for him. I love the guy too. We've seen him go through these funks countless times however. Problem with this time, its lasted 75% of the season. Still hoping he finishes strong.

How this season can be considered anything other than a complete success is beyond me. Let's recap.

We found one of the best defensive CFers in the game that is proving he can hit for acceptable offense at the position.

We found a corner outfielder with pop for the next 3+ years who for once was not a bust.

We found a 30 home run power bat for the middle of our lineup at first.

We found our future catcher who is shaping up to be one of the better hitters at his position.

We found an elite backend of the bullpen arm who can close.

We found an elite backend of the bullpen arm who can close.

We found an elite backend of the bullpen arm who can close.

We found an everyday reliever that proved last year was not a fluke.

One of our top prospect pitchers is taking the next step to top of the rotation starter in just a year.

We found another young starter out of nowhere who is shaping up to be another top of the rotation type pitcher.

Success up and down the system to many of our top prospects.

In comment 11787404 Rflairr said:

Quote:

In comment 11787367 Ira said: Quote: his shoulder isn't bothering him. Flores or Campbell can get some ab's there. Its not rest. He's just not the player he once was. No excuse for him now. As Granderson, Duda, and d'Arnaud are all hitting. Not acceptable, to be making 20 mill and be on pace for 12-13 HRs.

I'm not going to sit hear and defend DW as if he's having some great year...obviously he's not. He's not "terrible" or "bad"...he's just not having a David Wright type of year.

"He's just not the player he once was." Huh? He's coming off two very very good years...all of a sudden he's done?

I don't know what Granderson, Duda, and TdA have to do with Wright. Since they are hitting, he's supposed to be hitting too? TdA has been good for 3 weeks and that relates to DW how? Granderson's July was very similar to Wright's.

I get that you want more out of your $20 million dollar player...I do too...but if you think that DW is still that 30HR guy then you are delusional. He hasn't been that for a long time.

Personally, I think the stink if Tejada has rubbed off on Wright, lol. Wright will be fine. If there is any year that he's going to be in a funk, let it be this one. Not uncommon for the first year of big contracts/extensions. Now, if he's still off next year, then you can be concerned.

I guess not. We all accepted a slight decline with the switch to citified and for a few years we used the excuse he had nobody hitting around him.

However, he's 31! He should be in his prime. Why shouldn't he still be that player? Was he on steroids? We're trying to trade the farm and give a guy almost the same age 20 million for the next 7 years to do what David in his best years already has done.

I think we'd all be thrilled with him hitting .300, with 20-25 home runs but what happened? .270 and 12 home runs over a full season is really bad. No other way to slice it. If he was 70% of the player he once was we are likely over .500 right now.

I think he's just in one of those David Wright funks and i do think he'll come out of it but David is one of the few disappointments with a lot of good this year. No other way around it.

Feeling pretty good about the Mets

I'm trying to figure out how that means he's not the player he once was. He's hit .306 and .307 the last two years, had a lousy year before that. I guess you would've said he was done in 2011.

I've kind of felt good all year though. When Harvey went down I kind of threw making the playoffs this year at the window so Ive really been able to sit back and watch the development of a lot of these kids and its been awesome. Yeah they've had their bumps and bruises and they aren't all the way there yet but this team is getting there. It really is.

In comment 11787477 schabadoo said:

Quote:

I'm trying to figure out how that means he's not the player he once was. He's hit .306 and .307 the last two years, had a lousy year before that. I guess you would've said he was done in 2011.

In 2011, he broke a bone in his back and missed half the season and even then he hit 14 home runs. His power numbers have been steadily declining and this year is borderline shocking. Nobody's paying 20 million for a guy to hit an empty .300. He's got to hit home runs too.

He's not a free agent and I can't see them trading him, so the money isn't a worry, is it?

if Flores would overtake SS and Cambell would get more time in LF. MDD can replace Abreu too and platoon a little. I could seriously sit back in absolute bliss for the rest of the year win or lose. lol. How sick am I?

tejeda going to at least split time at ss

Not going to declare a guy who has a decade of HOF (or near-HOF) ball as being done for one, so far inexplicable bad season. He was a .904 hitter last year. This is probably just an anomaly.

The amazing part about this season is what it would like like with a few more breaks. Notably, Wright should have been good for 2 more wins this year, Harvey should have given us +3 or +4 wins to this point, and just based on our run differential we should probably be 55-53 (everyone here knows how bad we've been in 1-run games). We could easily be right there with Washington, Atlanta, and SF.

because he has had a history of getting insanely hot. If it happens as in the past he can carry the club all by his lonesome as he has done in the past

In comment 11787506 Deej said:

Quote:

Not going to declare a guy who has a decade of HOF (or near-HOF) ball as being done for one, so far inexplicable bad season. He was a .904 hitter last year. This is probably just an anomaly. The amazing part about this season is what it would like like with a few more breaks. Notably, Wright should have been good for 2 more wins this year, Harvey should have given us +3 or +4 wins to this point, and just based on our run differential we should probably be 55-53 (everyone here knows how bad we've been in 1-run games). We could easily be right there with Washington, Atlanta, and SF.

I was just thinking that. Add back Harvey, Parnell, and a "good David Wright" year and we are probably right there for the division right now.

In comment 11787508 Headhunter said:

Quote:

because he has had a history of getting insanely hot. If it happens as in the past he can carry the club all by his lonesome as he has done in the past

Yeah, I agree with this. He's been a streaky guy most of his career. People make excuses for him when he's not hitting but I think this is all it is. Unfortunately for us his cold streak has lasted almost all year. Just in one of those funks. Im really hoping thats all it is and he bounces back next year. We add a Cargo to this lineup and the excuses will be over. Time to go to the playoffs and we need David.

And I think signing that big deal has made him press a little this season. I think he gets it worked out even if it is next season.

hate to shit on David Wright, one of the greatest Mets ever but I'm sorry he's absolutely having a "bad" season. He's on pace for 12 homers 78 rbi in 152 games with a .727 OPS. He's paid like an absolute superstar and is performing at best like a league average starting 3b. He ranks 11/22 in wRC+ (right ahead of... Luis Valbuena and Pedro Alvarez) and ranks 13/22 in WOBA, 13/22 in WAR, .1 ahead of... Mark Reynolds. There is no sugarcoating his season, it's been bad. He takes up roughly 1/4 of the payroll. David Wright was worth 29.7 million last year using WAR, this year...9.7. I love David Wright, and I'm sure the shoulder could be an issue but when you are paid like an absolute superstar in year 2 of a monster deal and you have a year like this it's a BAD season. Anyone else but David Wright added to the Mets making that kind of bank is likely booed by the fans. Heck, Wright has a normal year and the Mets might actually be "in it" beyond "dream scenario" stuff.

I love Wright but he has not been good or even "ok", he's been average for an MLB 3b and that's not acceptable making superstar money.

there is no sugar coating it.

He's had back problems and he wouldn't be the first guy to lose it quickly as he ages.

The good news is, as encouraged as I am lately by the Mets performance, I still view this as a throw-away year.

So, if this is next year and Harvey is the ace of a potential contender staff and Wright is hurting the team I'll worry about it.

for now, eh, it's not like the Mets are really contenders though.

Maybe I'm just not trying to be so down about it.

but I don't see anyone having a defense for him.

In comment 11787575 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

hate to shit on David Wright, one of the greatest Mets ever but I'm sorry he's absolutely having a "bad" season. He's on pace for 12 homers 78 rbi in 152 games with a .727 OPS. He's paid like an absolute superstar and is performing at best like a league average starting 3b. He ranks 11/22 in wRC+ (right ahead of... Luis Valbuena and Pedro Alvarez) and ranks 13/22 in WOBA, 13/22 in WAR, .1 ahead of... Mark Reynolds. There is no sugarcoating his season, it's been bad. He takes up roughly 1/4 of the payroll. David Wright was worth 29.7 million last year using WAR, this year...9.7. I love David Wright, and I'm sure the shoulder could be an issue but when you are paid like an absolute superstar in year 2 of a monster deal and you have a year like this it's a BAD season. Anyone else but David Wright added to the Mets making that kind of bank is likely booed by the fans. Heck, Wright has a normal year and the Mets might actually be "in it" beyond "dream scenario" stuff. I love Wright but he has not been good or even "ok", he's been average for an MLB 3b and that's not acceptable making superstar money.

Holy shit!! Dan to the rescue! lol. Thank you. Exactly what I've been saying or trying to say.

See PhiPsi. lol. Just messin man.

face it "average David Wright season" and the Mets likely have at least 2-3 more wins and that would have them "really" thinking WC 2 vs. "if a million things break right". I think he bounces back but imagine we signed Choo or Ellsbury, gave them a monster deal were essentially league average for their positions. People would be very unhappy. Remember 2005 when people despised Beltran? He was 14/22 in wRC+ amongst CF's and 15th in wOBA.

last week or so. How would we feel if we traded for Tulo, gave up the farm and were paying him 20 million dollars next year and he came out and hit .270 and 12 home runs?? He would be booed off the field. Crucified even. Tulo is only like a year younger, has even MORE of an injury history, and would be leaving Coors. A normal "David Wright year" is likely a normal "Tulo year" outside of Coors. He's completely shitting the bed this season.

sorry

includes a nice write-up of Nimmo, just wanted to share with the Mets fans.
Link - ( New Window )

had the better overall career. They've both only broke 30 home runs twice. Wright has hit closer to 30 a lot more often than Tulo has, and he's playing in Citi/Shea compared to Coors.

him a bad third baseman this season. And why, because he's finally making superstar money? Eh, I guess that just doesn't bother me as much as some. Why should he be faulted for taking up 1/4th of the teams payroll? Is it his fault the Wilpons are cheap as fuck? Is it his fault he was surrounded by one of the worst offenses in baseball for most of the season? He started out the season pretty damn good.

So what do you mean..."bad" for David Wright or just "bad" in general? If you mean he's having a bad year compared to what he normally does, then I agree. But it's July 30th. There's two months left. DW can easily go on hot streak.

I fully admit to being a bit of a DW homer but I absolutely do not believe that a "normal" David Wright season puts them "in it." They'd need a lot more help than that.

Zgiants, as nauseating as it is to watch you act so giddy that someone actually agrees with you for once...I'm happy you found a friend.

lol. Just messin man

even a met prospect but check out the breakout year this kid is having (homered again tonight for 5 straight games with a homer)
Link - ( New Window )

off to a good start.

batting .395 in a small sample.

2 for 2 today, 2 runs, a BB and a SB

In comment 11787622 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

even a met prospect but check out the breakout year this kid is having (homered again tonight for 5 straight games with a homer) Link - ( New Window )

His middle name is Maverick...awesome.

with 4 home games again the 2nd WC leader, SF Giants.

Huge series this weekend. Let's see if the new Mets measure up with the better NL teams. Then 3 games at the NL East leading Nationals.

Vogelsong vs Niese
Peavy vs deGrom
Bumgardner vs Colon
Hudson vs Gee

I'd like to see them take 3 out of 4 against them.

just two more wins puts us at .500 right now heading into August, and that's being ultra conservative. You don't think adding an extra 15 home runs and X amount of hits might have effected all those one games at all? Its a pretty significant difference. Im a David Wright homer too but he's been bad this year. For David Wright standards. For players making 20 million a year standards. For 3rdbasman in general standards. Lets hope he snaps out of it.

gets some Savannah this year.

In comment 11787648 spike said:

Quote:

with 4 home games again the 2nd WC leader, SF Giants. Huge series this weekend. Let's see if the new Mets measure up with the better NL teams. Then 3 games at the NL East leading Nationals.

The Mets could really do some damage this month if they play pretty well. Still a stretch but they have a ton of division and meaningful games coming up. Keep winning or splitting series 2/3 or 2/4 and we'll likely be the wild card leader at the end of August.

I meant.

Rubin reporting that Harvey will take the mound next week. Clearly trying to make it back for the September playoff push. ;)

I like that he is so driven. I hope he gets his inning.

They are considering sending him to separate league September/October to get some work in. I wonder if a miracle happened and the Mets got in the race if he could join the team for the playoffs? EXTREMELY unlikely but the timeline lines up.

Simply not worth the risk but I do hope he gets his inning just so he won't have to wait another year to get that monkey off his back.

We wouldn't want him in October assuming we made it??' Even if he's pitching in another league anyway? The fans would burn city down. I know I've lost it tonight. I need some sleep. Never gonna happen. I know I know.

In comment 11787687 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

We wouldn't want him in October assuming we made it??' Never gonna happen. I know I know.

In comment 11787679 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

They are considering sending him to separate league September/October to get some work in. I wonder if a miracle happened and the Mets got in the race if he could join the team for the playoffs? EXTREMELY unlikely but the timeline lines up.

For a player to be eligible for the postseason roster, they must be on the active roster by August 31. So, not a possibility with Harvey.

I forgot about that. Told ya I needed sleep. That sucks. Should have had the surgery last year when I said. No idea why he waited months.

there was an injury. Then he could be activated I believe to replace the injured player.

You put him on the open market with these numbers and his contract, how many teams would be in on him? My count is 31 phone calls coming in at the same time to Anderson to see what it would take

The Mets are now 6 gb from BOTH wild card spots.

Have great series against the Giants and the Nats and get back into 500, and the Mets will be in the thick of things

Just being realistic. Odds of making the playoffs have gone from 2.5% to 2.7% this week. As well as they have looked, it's against the Phillies. As much as I would love to see a miracle, let's be realistic.

but if Duda d'Arnaud Familia Lagares Mejia Black deGrom Campbell Wheeler keep getting better over the next 2 months I'd call this a success of a season

Couldn't agree with you more HH. This year has been all about buying time and the kids getting better. Better the kids play, the less holes we have to fill, and more valuable they are in potential trades to fill the gaping holes in LF and SS.

what it's worth, the rash of 2014 TJ's and second TJ's has most teams believing they were too aggressive bringing pitchers back/pushing pitchers. Remember for a while people kept saying "some guys come back from TJ in less than 12 months". The industry is now looking at the issue a lot more conservatively with 16-18 months being the time table. Harvey for example had TJ in October, ST will be just about 16 months. You will see more and more teams slowing down the process (August was never really realistic anyway, despite Harvey being a competitive monster) but for a while people seemed to believe guys could successfully come back sooner and that backfired for many. Chris Flexen just had TJ, I suspect he's not back starting until the end of next season. for example

is despite the 2014 Mets POTENTIALLY being better with Matt Harvey (I suspect he wouldn't be very good in Sept starting as most guys have major command issues upon returning) they are much better off with him getting the full 16 months when looking at the big picture.

Let him start in AFL, offseason throwing program and a full Spring training

"fun" for 2014 aside, long run this is probably better than had he returned "quickly"... plus it's probably more "fun" having him return in a "hmmm 1-2 moves and we can be very interesting" season with full rehab vs. worrying about him pushing too hard, too quickly in a "27 things have to break right for a 1 game play-in game to happen".

Do the mets appease Harvey and the fans by allowing him his one inning before 2014 ends? Personally hope not, but if he is throwing at 90% in two months, do they do it?

inning won't make a difference either way. He's going to be "pitching" at that point either way so I wouldn't stress either way. He'd have to be a true moron to go out there and throw as hard as he can if he does get that chance. Personally for drama reasons I'd rather he not get his inning so opening day can be his triumphant return with people going ape shit. More "fun" lol

from themselves.

He shouldn't be brought up here.

Odds are he wouldn't detract from the Mets long playoff chances anyway. 9/10 TJ pitchers take time to round into shape, velocity down, control an issue etc. Not to mention, God forbid he goes out there and isn't fully ready and he's topping off at 91-92 and suddenly people are worried he will never be "Matt Harvey" again.

Pitching really isn't our issue at this point. We will win if the bats keep putting some runs on the board.

Out of curiosity, I checks worst WAR in MLB with over 200 ABs. Not NEARLY as bad as I expected, he came in as 32nd worst in the league. Basically meaning, every team has a Chris young.


CY sucks, but not as bad as 31 other players... - ( New Window )

throw 1 inning. The argument that it would give him peace of mind. He is such a tremendous competitor that I don't think he has 1 iota of doubt that he will be Matt Harvey next season

In comment 11787817 Headhunter said:

Quote:

throw 1 inning. The argument that it would give him peace of mind. He is such a tremendous competitor that I don't think he has 1 iota of doubt that he will be Matt Harvey next season

Their is a risk, no doubt. But nothing to be gained, I disagree. They throw a bone to Harvey, after fighting with him and pissing him off for a year straight. That's huge. Second, let's be realistic. Mets announce a relief inning for Harvey on Sept X, they sell thousands of tickets. An extra $250-$500k in revenue. Ticket sales, parking, concessions, tv. Lead story on espn. Lots of value tot he franchise. Last, fans feel ok about Harvey, seeing he threw an inning. Even if he got rocked, everyone will say he was rusty, etc.

Harvey's recovery and although Harvey himself is itching to compete, I think he understands that and deep down inside knows that it's best.

Odd article claiming a Kemp is the perfect acquisition. Such a strange article, then talks about CY and how difficult it is for a player to bounce back, ironically.
In the absolute best case scenario, Kemp is worth his salary the term of his contract, BEST case. Risk is so great that this can't possibly make sense for any team, yet alone the Mets.
Post article calling for kemp acquisition - ( New Window )

id be ok with it, but i cant imagine giving up prospects for the right to grossly overpay and oft injured Kemp.

Sandy quote in the Kernan piece is a bummer. Not sure why he chooses to say things like that even if true.

From an attitude standpoint. He's got an .800 OPS right now, with somewhat restricted playing time, and clearly in a situation he's not happy with. I could see him being a very good change of scenery candidate, and the reality is other than Tulo he's the only other attainable guy in his prime who has been a legitimate MVP candidate (maybe CarGo?).

Obviously the Dodgers are in a bind so it only makes sense if they throw in some $ and it doesn't cost anything valuable. He's got 106/5 years remaining, if that came down to being on the hook for 5/75 you're basically talking about the amount of money they gave Granderson per year. That would also be less than CarGo per season. I think you could make a good case Kemp would outproduce CarGo here offensively, and he might even be less injury prone.

End of the day I think the fact that the Mets likely wouldn't want Kemp in CF is a big sticking point, along with the $, and the Dodgers send him somewhere like Boston where he'll end up having a big resurgence.

In comment 11787883 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Sandy quote in the Kernan piece is a bummer. Not sure why he chooses to say things like that even if true.

I think it's just his dry sense of humor to deflect and manage people's expectations. The reality is he has a lower than it should be budget he has to work with thanks to unfit owners, and it's probably just as frustrating to him as it is the fans.

there will be no Kemp, Tulo, CarGo types added without a decent payroll increase. Numbers just don't work out.

Obviously his point is clear, increased payroll or not. But in fantasy land if the Mets pick up a Goldschmidt or other star player on a cheap salary - it makes picking up another $20mm less necessary. Yet at the same time, a star on cheap $$ makes it more likely a $20mm salary can fit in the budget.

One other point. Mets acquire a $20mm guy, particularly an OF, and Grandy gets moved in the offseason. Guess what. No more 20,20,15. Just 20,20, __. this is why dumping Colon is vital in freeing up &11m. And moving Murphy and Flores stepping up is big too.

Not trying to sidetrack that thread, now with the Lester trade especially. But I disagree on your thoughts on Legares. He is what he is, maybe too many Mets fans got overly excited and thought he was a star in the making. He is an elite glove, with an OK bat.

His defense from last year to this year is identical expect for two things. One, no one is running on him this year. We knew that would happen. problem is, his defensive metrics were heavily weighted to that arm. there is no metric that measures a guy stopping at 2nd or 3rd because Legares got a ball. That is literally his entire difference in defensive metrics this year. The second is, he made a few more spectacular catches last year than this year - the wow moments stick.

Offensively, he has shown a little bit of improvement. Not a lot, nor should we expect a lot immediately. re his BABIP - he should be a high BABIP. I believe he always had a high one in the minors, and this year I guarantee his line drive rate is substantially higher than last years (would check to confirm, too lazy to be honest).

nothing in his numbers really suggests improvement. I hate that I sound like I'm hating on Lagares when the truth is I like him but I think a lot of people expected some sort of offensive improvement/breakout but the BB rate is identical, the K rate is, the power is slightly down, his average has dropped 23 points in the last 6 weeks and with such an average dependent player that's not very good. He basically adds ZERO offensive value unless singles are falling in. It's a tough offensive profile to have.


"Lagares, who sees only 3.80 pitches per plate appearance, has swung at pitches outside of the strike zone 37.4 percent of the time since his return, according to FanGraphs. That number is well above the league average of 30.7 percent. In comparison, Lagares swung at pitches outside of the strike zone 34.6 percent of the time before he landed on the disabled list on June 2.

Lagares also has swung at 51.3 percent of the pitches he's seen, which is an increase from when he swung at 44.7 percent. "When you try to do too much, you chase a lot," Lagares said."

I look at Legares like I do Tejada. A defensive position that needs to add more.
Legares is a far superior fielder to Tejada. A far superior hitter, but Tejada is far more patient so I will call it a wash. Lageres has more pop. More speed. Better baserunner.
So all of the problems with Tejada, Legares isn't. Tejada is always bashed as a light hitter who adds nothing else, Legares is a light hitter who adds a lot of the other things. He's valuable. Not a star. Not irreplaceable with a better player. But he isn't a problem to carry for another couple of years while you build a team.

With an offensive catcher, an average LF replacement, and an average SS replacement... Batting Legares 7th or 8th is fullya cceptable. Black hole at SS, LF and C that we have had up until now - that wasn't acceptable.

Totally. If you see him as a 7th-8th hitter with elite defense who gives you SOME offense then absolutely he's what should be "hoped for". I meant for those who expect him to be a 2-6 hitter, an offensive "plus". If he's going to be that, it hasn't happened to this point.

Re the Sandy quote: It's disappointing, but at least he is being honest. Not sure I can tolerate being a Mets fan if we wont spend when the circumstances call for it. Mets could easily be a top 5 revenue team. They have the young nucleus in place and coming along to compete for a playoff spot year in, year out. If we shot our money wad on Granderson, and there is no more money for upgrades, I'm pretty sure my interest will wane.

NYPost: Has been very aggressive in advocating that the Mets are in some sort of window. Absolute bullshit. Mets are approaching a window, but this season isnt it.But Matt Kemp isnt the answer, and to play him off of Chris Young is just ignorant. Matt Kemp is not a worthwhile gamble for any team other than the unlimited payroll types like LA and NYY. And if the Dodgers are picking up a lot of his salary, he's going to be too expensive in prospects. And my understanding is that he has been consistently horrible in the field, even if his -2.7 dWAR is taken with a grain of salt.

can any of the 22 dwarfs play LF?

In comment 11788064 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Totally. If you see him as a 7th-8th hitter with elite defense who gives you SOME offense then absolutely he's what should be "hoped for". I meant for those who expect him to be a 2-6 hitter, an offensive "plus". If he's going to be that, it hasn't happened to this point.

I personally assume a player is what he has shown he is. And hopeful he can become a percentage of what his potential is. I don't view Legares star as shining overly bright, I'm content with what he is. The "but" is, that is assuming you don't rely on him as a hitter and build a better lineup than we have had (TDA an improvement over Buck, etc. Anything is an improvement over Tejada. You or I are an improvement over CY)

In comment 11788086 feelflows said:

Quote:

can any of the 22 dwarfs play LF?

LOL

I'm sure Sandy's quote gave some of our midgets in the minors some extra hope. Centeno, Quintanilla, Herrera, Phil Evans, and Biondi. Poor Dash Wingham - his dreams have come to an end.

I get that he made the soundbyte, but he shouldn't take the blame.

I didn't realize herrera was so tiny

On a guy in his first full year is that he is still learning. I'm not saying he will grow monumentally as a hitter, hell he might even get worst, but twice now this year Collins(one of the few things he's gotten right) has seen Lagares being overly aggressive and has given him a day off. Both times after a conscious effort to slow it down a bit he's come back hitting. Where's the metrics that take stuff like that into account?? I don't see Lagares as much more than a 7th/8th hitter but considering his defense I'll be thrilled if he can hit .270/.280 with a little pop once in a while. It's not impossible he can learn to be a little more patient either. We carried Ordonez for how many years because of his defense? And he could barely hit his weight.