NFT: Kevin Love to Cavaliers "imminent"...

The Cleveland big 3 is far better then the Miami 3....Love Wade but he is an aging star and would take Irving straight up now...Bosh is a better defensive player...but Love a far better scorer and overall player...Cleveland will go all the way next year assuming this trade happens

.

Are in the mix but by no means a prohibitive favorite. Titles arent won solely on talent. This team has next to no playoff experience outside of lebron, serious questions on defense, an unknown coach. Zero experience together. Teams with this much roster turnover dont win overnight. The 08 celtics are the anomaly, and that was a very different veteran laiden group. And even that team had close calls in the playoffs nearly getting picked off against vastly inferior competition

there are many challenges facing them in year 1

does not seem to be acting desperate right now, so i dont think CLE having to trade wiggins+ is some crazy thought. Love is a top 15 player at least in this league, why wouldnt it cost more then WIggins? Unless we are already buying into the idea that Wiggins is the second coming. Wiggins is an elite prospect, but he is still a prospect.

When you compare loves potential package to hauls garnered by teams in similar situations (ie a star who is forcing his way out and using impending fa as leverage) this is an amazing net. Since ive been watching the league you never see something this enticing, from the days of barkley in philly to melo in denver and everything inbetween

im just saying its not some huge overpay by CLE either.

But with the accompanying circumstances the cavs should be able to negotiate some sort of discount. At least not have to give up potential lotto picks they own from other teams along with wiggins and bennett plus.

minnesota holds no cards here. I scratch my head when I hear media types state that. He is leaving, and the trade market has been lukewarm. Wiggins in any deal is the best package, whatever comes with him. I guess minny does have some leverage until training camp because the cavs would obviously much prefer he be there from day 1 rather than an early season or pre deadline deal. But once we get to october they lose any shred of leverage.

They dont need to trade Love right now, but they need to trade him this season. 100% guaranteed. He WILL NOT resign there. If they werent desperate, they wouldnt be shopping him. He's a building block.

They wont give him away, but Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in a year where there were decent options. That's a fantastic haul based on precedent. Usually teams get a bunch of quarters for their superstar dollar. Wiggins would certainly be top 50 in a trade value list. Probably top 25-30.

if they do this, but it is what it is. My buddy in the front office wont answer my calls.

I dont understand why we are already seeing the "Cavs supporting cast isnt that great if they win lebron carried them" campaign.

i am excited to have him back in cleveland can we not make me want to puke already with this.

tehy are and should be the favorite in the East. if they dont see the finals its a disappointment.

The longer they wait, the less leverage, if any they will have. If Cleveland manages to be the #1 seed by the time the trade deadline comes around they could end up losing wiggins in the deal.

But if I'm Cleveland, I need defense if I'm getting Love. I don't see how valuable waiters could possibly be with even less time than before with the ball in his hands. I'd toss him in the deal for corey brewer, who thrives on the defensive end and in transition, much like wiggins.

In comment 11788281 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

tehy are and should be the favorite in the East. if they dont see the finals its a disappointment.

I think that's unfair. Fans were saying that about Miami in the first year of their big 3 but it took time to figure out how they played with each other. Granted given how barren the East is they should be expected to at least go to the ECF but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost out to experience. Still think the Spurs are the favorites with or without love.

Kevin love to the cavs is a grand slam. As much as the nba has grown in recent times (which will be very well reflected in the new tv deal) there is always room for growth. And there does exist a definite demographic that has been turned off by the lack of white american superstars. To take kevin love, the best one in years and quite possibly this century, and take him from relative obscurity to the highest profile team in the nba (which by default is always lebrons team whether they win it all or not, and regardless of market) is going to do wonders for loves career off the court. Espn with their over saturation of everything lebron will turn kevin love by extension into a very relevant sports figure

In comment 11787926 GIANTSr01 said:

Quote:

Absolutely. Is there any doubt LeBron was "promised" they would acquire Love to pair with him? As others have pointed out, they just needed LeBron to sign first so the media could play up the whole "coming home" angle rather than LeBron joining another superteam.

There certainly should be -- you can't credibly promise a player that you'll be acquiring another particular player in a trade when other teams are also interested in that player.

Seemed to be bigger in marketing a few years ago than this year. That could be just my imagination but that shampoo as seemed to come up every 3 minutes 2 years ago

But as terrific as love is, hes not on the short list of names a random focus group would associate with the nba brand. Just too far off the radar because of circumstance. That changes overnight now. That hasnt happened for an american born white player in ages. Not since probably stockton, and he was never a marketable guy. You would probably have to go back to bird

I know, not actually an American. But for broad appeal purposes he wouldnt be considered a "foreigner" like Dirk, Pau etc other than the fact that he wasnt on Team USA (which no one followed).

Not sure what standard we're looking to apply for the next White American Hype (this is getting a bit uncomfortable). Kevin Love is NOT going to be Larry Bird famous. Larry was on Cheers and those McDonalds commercials. Larry is probably/possibly a top 10 overall player.

a much easier player to root for over Wade/Bosh will be huge. I am in part speaking for myself, but I think the overall feeling is most people like Kevin Love, or at the very least don't hate him.

For me, i'm indifferent. Glad to see LeBron out of Miami, but part of me wants to see what Wiggins can learn in the Cavs scenario. They are a more intriguing team, IMO, with LeBron + all the young guys.

for people the public "associates with the NBA brand", there is a pretty easy disqualifying test. You need to be able to picture your wife filling in this blank: "Oh, yeah, the guy from the ________ commercial". That's just a disqualifier mind you.

Cant fill in that blank for most allstars. Shit, Tim Duncan at his height was barely associated with the NBA brand. Post MJ, that list is Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, Wade, Iverson. Maybes include Robinson, Hill, and Yao. On the fence about Dwight, Tony Parker (a celeb), KG, Paul (recently).

He wont be larry bird famous, but lets not pretend this country is post racial. And that is an issue the nba has always had to deal with more delicately than any other league. To have a white american face at the forefront of the league for the first time in a long time (even if you include nash, he had a short window and a unique career trajectory, and the suns were never the national team a lebron led team is) is definitely going to help bring some more people under the tent. I think its sad that its the case, but I think it definitely helps make the league a bit more identifiable to many in this country. Lets be real. Even if those people dont necessarily become cav bandwagoners, his face vaults near the front of the league as lebrons sidekick

even coming out of college

but you never know how a guy who has played his entire career on a crappy team is going to fare when he is no longer the man and has to take a back seat

we know he'll rebound and hit open jumpers. not so sure about the rest of his game.

Country isnt post racial. But no one ever gave a shit about Scottie Pippen, and no one cool ever dressed up as Robin for Halloween. Not sure that Kevin Love as one of LeBron's amigos (dont sleep on Kyrie) gets you very far in terms of league branding. I could be totally misreading this tough. Also, Bigs have always been hard to to market.

Ive discussed the nba with someone who wasnt a big fan on this site alone over 10 years, and left me with the impression that the racial composition played at least a small part, I could have bought the clips myself. And the nba players have always dealt with sterotypes that stem from race, especially relative to the more white college game. And it shouldnt be a shock how divided the ratings are among racial lines between the two. But forget even those people, im sure there are many white people who are far from racists but may not look at the league and not see many identifying faces. For the same reason black people dont watch hockey.

Kevin love becoming a relevant nba figure isnt going to drastically change anything by itself. But it can do nothing but help grow the nba brand which has a lot of room to grow among certain people, which happen to be a majority

LeBron like Bosh's did.

Player in this league to lebron as love could be. Both bosh and wade are ball dominant players. Bosh had to develop more of his perimeter game and Wade had to play on the block more and cut off the ball once lebron came. Love is a tremendous off the ball player than can stretch the floor the way bosh never could. It's not like Love needs the ball to create a shot for himself. A lebron-love pick and pop can be the most lethal play in the NBA.

And as much as I'd love to see wiggins and lebron play together, lebron does need immediate help right away. And I wouldn't discount how good Minnesota could be if Wiggins, Lavine, Rubio,Bennett, Dieng and maybe even Shabazz develop the way they were projected to

the heat offense as it was constructed led to that.
he actually became one of the best PF defenders in the league, and helped space the floor so lbj and wade could operate.
most of his fall off was castration.

In comment 11788506 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

the heat offense as it was constructed led to that. he actually became one of the best PF defenders in the league, and helped space the floor so lbj and wade could operate. most of his fall off was castration.

Bosh's defense was near best in the league. It may have gottten better, but remmeber.... rebounding is part of defense.

But black people didnt start watching hockey in droves because of Jerome Iginla and PK Subban. On the other hand, Tiger Woods did drive a decent black audience for golf (not sure if it is still true, but during Tiger's heyday, PGA was getting a much bigger African American draw than NHL and NASCAR).

I also think that NBA has always trended young in its audience, and America's youths are increasingly color-desensitized. Now there is a chicken and egg problem there -- maybe NBA trends young because the older, more racially discriminating (?) generations lose interest in a black dominated league, so that a white superstar could drive older fans back. But Kevin Love is not a superstar. At best, in Cleveland he's top 10 player who is 2nd fiddle (Pippen), and who is a big (less exciting).

And again, this isnt even a perfect test case like the 94 bulls were because the heat replaced lebron with a well above league average small forward. Im not going to go overboard on deng but this isnt pete myers stepping in for mj. 70 plus percent of the nights deng gives them an advantage or push in his matchup.

They do have the intangible motivation edge that in large part drove chicago 20 years ago, they have a great deal to prove and thats a real factor. But id be surprised if they won a playoff series. Very surprised

But id be surprised if wade played 50 games this year. You could already see the signs now of a guy who is no doubt upset to lose lebron but is simultaneously excited to go back to handling a bigger load with more shots. He switched up his diet, lost 15 lbs, getting himself ready to show america he can handle those superstar responsibilities again and put up numbers... and it will be his downfall. We are about to see just how much life with lebron prolonged him. No more rest once every three nights now that wins in the regular season are at more of a premium. No more nights playing bystander as lebron runs the show and wade conserves. I think his body will fall apart with the imposed demands

In comment 11788506 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

the heat offense as it was constructed led to that. he actually became one of the best PF defenders in the league, and helped space the floor so lbj and wade could operate. most of his fall off was castration.

I just happen to think that most of his statistical fall off was the result of being surrounded by better players than, say, the TJ Fords and Carlos Delfinos of the world. Hell, did any of his pre-Heat teammates even finish a year averaging more than 15 ppg?

And a limited number of possessions. Three guys cannot put up superstar numbers in todays pace on the same team. Its absolutely impossible. Everyones game has to change and even lebron had to sacrifice some shots in miami relative to his cav days. If you put prime lebron, prime mj and prime shaq on the same team, they wouldnt all play to the back of their trading card. It was inevitable bosh would have to sacrafice the most in the way of shots, but the only valid knock on him for regression was his rebounding. It was excusable on the offensive glass because he played further from the rim. But his defensive rebounding was horrid. By his own admission he is less apt to bang then ever, especially when miami has him overmatched at the 5

ps..... love and kyrie will see number dips too. Doesnt mean regression. Just means less usage for obvious reasons. There is only one ball. Theyll traee stats for relevancy just like bosh did

In comment 11788099 MarshallOnMontana said:

Quote:

Are in the mix but by no means a prohibitive favorite. Titles arent won solely on talent. This team has next to no playoff experience outside of lebron, serious questions on defense, an unknown coach. Zero experience together. Teams with this much roster turnover dont win overnight. The 08 celtics are the anomaly, and that was a very different veteran laiden group. And even that team had close calls in the playoffs nearly getting picked off against vastly inferior competition there are many challenges facing them in year 1

Yeah, I would install the Spurs and Thunder as favorites above the Cavs at this point, even if they get Love

In comment 11788497 chris r said:

Quote:

LeBron like Bosh's did.

His NUMBERS fell off a cliff, not his play. He became more efficient and picked his spots better. Love already has a strong perimeter game, so if you are referring to straight PPG numbers, I still don't think he will average less than 23-24 Ppg.

And I wouldn't count out Toronto and Washington either. The East is more well rounded this year. I think (or I hope) the Knicks will be in the playoff mix and the Hawks get Horford back. I wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland is the #3 seed with love in the first year of their big 3

On another note, I may be overstating things a bit but I think the stephenson signing really threw a wrench into things and now puts a bottom tier playoff team like charlotte on near equal footing with last years top seed, creating clearly more parity. The hornets already had a better record than indy post new years last season. Now they improve and deal indy a big blow. Lance is an idiot but he was a big part of that team. On a team with no point guard he was their main facilitator and his versatility was so key. Even led them in rebounding for much of last year and brought a mentality which I think was an overall net positive impact on the culture even if guys hated him there. Hes a competitor and brought a junk yard dog mentality that was a big part of indys identity. I think he was a great signing for the hornets. I could ssee them winning 47 or so games with health. That coach is a monster and turned a flawed defensive roster into a top 5 d team last year, even if people only remember the 60 point games from lebron and melo. He is like lowercase thibs

But heads up 9pm tonight team usa intrasquad scrimmage on espn. Gotta cut the roster down from 18 to 12 for the start of the world championships this month (which theyve now rebranded the world cup, which annoys me for some reason). D rose will play and by all accounts has looked great, theyve pretty much labeled him a lock for the roster.

In comment 11790207 MarshallOnMontana said:

Quote:

But heads up 9pm tonight team usa intrasquad scrimmage on espn. Gotta cut the roster down from 18 to 12 for the start of the world championships this month (which theyve now rebranded the world cup, which annoys me for some reason). D rose will play and by all accounts has looked great, theyve pretty much labeled him a lock for the roster.

He has looked fantastic on video practices Ive seen. Not only do I think he will make the roster, he will also start. They said he is by far the best defensive point guard on the roster, and that includes Wall.

Wall and kyrie are in a heated battle right now for one of the last spots. Its cool seeing highly paid, big name 21st century athletes put themselves out there like this in the spirit of competition when the possibility of getting cut is very real. Youd think these days they would just pre select a group to show up and no ones feelings get hurt. This is one of the last settings where guys in their lofty position get put in spots like this

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

two handed!

as much as Mason Plumlee does.

Rose showed enough in the first 2 minutes of the game to say he still has it. Now its all about can he stay on the floor, and has he added another layer to his offensive game over the past two years. The rose we last saw, phenomenal talent he was, still wasnt quite ready to be top dog on a title team. Could be very guardable and prone to massive bouts of inefficiency against top defenses in the playoffs that could limit his rim attacks and keep him out of the paint and off the foul line. Hes had a lot of time to refine his bag of tricks though, and its not a sin that he wasnt a finished product at 23, its normal.

has been atrocious this game.

...

Disgusting.

Paul george might have just broken something

Ramp up the screams to stop sending pros

Ramp up the screams to stop sending pros

They've been doing this for more than 20 years and this is the first time something like this happened. It's not like these players are forced to play for the squad. They choose to. I think it's admirable the amount of NBA guys who want to play for their country.


I understand owners being upset because all they care about is money... if they're not making money off this, they're pissed. Outside of the owners, I don't see why anyone else would be angry. Is it preferable for this type of injury to happen to a college kid who makes no money?

I 1 million percent agree it would be stupid, but I think that convo will definitely ramp up

and not to sound cold, but in the eyes of many powers that be it is indeed preferable for this to hapen to the college kid that doesnt have 9 figures invested in him. Of course this could have happened to paul george any time in any gym in america. But logic doesnt matter