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ESPN: Giants' Offensive Talent Trails Rest of NFC East

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/31/2014 9:47 am
FYI...some points hard to argue against....
Players, not scheme, question for Giants - ( New Window )
No argument here....  
drkenneth : 7/31/2014 9:52 am : link
.
It is a total work in progress  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 7/31/2014 9:53 am : link
Reese gambled and lost in a number of areas and now we're playing catch up. But I expect this year to be a more enjoyable season to watch compared to last year. We could surprise as the article mentions. :)
It's not even close.  
NYGmen58 : 7/31/2014 9:54 am : link
However, the 3 other NFC East team' defensive talent trails that of the Giants.
Work in progress I agree  
lester : 7/31/2014 9:55 am : link
but to rank the skins 1st at WR without even seeing them on the field is silly. And lets see how Alfred Morris does in the new system and then ill be sold. I felt he was a product of the zone blocking scheme.
based on the past - OK  
Peter from CT : 7/31/2014 9:58 am : link
but given all of the changes in the Giants its a projection without a solid foundation. In reading the article, it is clear that rookies don't count - for the Giants or Philadelphia.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 7/31/2014 9:59 am : link
Graziano is right, though his negativity is annoying as hell.
He's not wrong.  
Riggies : 7/31/2014 10:05 am : link
If anything, he might have been too easy on them, considering he still thinks they can contend and an empty and misleading 7-9 last year was the floor.
Fact.  
Vin R : 7/31/2014 10:07 am : link
Graziano loves to write more negative articles than positive ones
While I agree with him in regards to talent  
mikeinbloomfield : 7/31/2014 10:08 am : link
I think he disregards scheme too much. Look at the receivers Donovan McNabb had in the Philly WCO up until they got Terrell Owens. Nobody. I'm not saying it will, but scheme can make up for talent deficiencies.
Thats all fine and good  
cjac : 7/31/2014 10:09 am : link
and probably correct.

But all of this is goig to depend on each teams offensive lines performing, because without that the talent doesnt mean shit.

Unfortunately the Giants have question marks there as well.
All comes down to OL...  
Matt G : 7/31/2014 10:22 am : link
If the OL can keep Eli off his ass and generate some push in the run game (particularly the red zone), the offense should be much improved...

At WR, it would be nice if Beckham was has healthy but Cruz is still a very tough matchup for most DBs... Randle and Jernigan have shown flashes... With Beckham, I'm confident one will step up...

We've made chicken salad from chicken sh#t at TE in the past... RB has three young players in the mix and if OL can push they should be ok...

And we still have the best QB in the division...

For years...  
Klaatu : 7/31/2014 10:24 am : link
The Cowboys were touted as having the most talent in the division. What did that get them?
RE: For years...  
Vin R : 7/31/2014 10:43 am : link
In comment 11788057 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The Cowboys were touted as having the most talent in the division. What did that get them?


Tickets to the 2008 NFC Championship game
While it wasn't as Giant-negative as a lot of  
JCin332 : 7/31/2014 11:01 am : link
Graziano's articles and he does make some fair points this is the the key sentence from the article..

Quote:
Now, predictions in July aren't worth the bandwidth they occupy, and surely some of the players we've discussed here will outperform expectations, just as others will underperform.
firing KG  
SBlue46 : 7/31/2014 11:36 am : link
Makes O 50% better....ko returners we have will
gives us shorter field. ..eli w short pass scares me..
not accurate..could be int's and short field..
all I can say is....  
BillKo : 7/31/2014 11:57 am : link
things change pretty fast.

Last year, we probably had the second best WR set in the league going into the season, and we fell flat on our faces.......

Let the season play out, things can change in a NY minute.

This is probably the best article from him that I've seen  
Moondwg : 7/31/2014 11:59 am : link
clear analysis, sober.
True  
RetroJint : 7/31/2014 12:14 pm : link
"Do not be deceived folks; there is still plenty of talent ." Except PS not really. I think I am quoting Simplify Guy from last season. Eli, Pugh, Cruz, maybe Zelmo. 3 or 4 returning starters from last season.
draft martin  
Fish : 7/31/2014 12:14 pm : link
Instead of Beckham and not that much of a weakness.
I think it's a stupid way to say how a team will do  
Bill L : 7/31/2014 12:15 pm : link
by ranking individual units of one-half of the team. Even for the offense, it says nothing as how they will function as a whole. ANd while he mentions the scheme and Eli, he takes neither element into account. And yet, those will be the two most important factors that determine success or failure.
I don't think he determined how the team would do  
Moondwg : 7/31/2014 12:16 pm : link
simply based on this analysis. He correctly noted that the NFCE is always up for grabs and the Coughlin has shown that he can make the most of what he has.
Offensive talent article that doesn't mention QB?  
BillT : 7/31/2014 12:17 pm : link
Seems like a pretty big piece to leave out. But hey, maybe that's just me.
RE: all I can say is....  
Riggies : 7/31/2014 12:28 pm : link
In comment 11788288 BillKo said:
Quote:
things change pretty fast.

Last year, we probably had the second best WR set in the league going into the season, and we fell flat on our faces.......

Let the season play out, things can change in a NY minute.


You may have been able to make some type of top 5 case if you ignored Nicks' injury concerns, but only a Giants homer would have had their WR unit as the second best in the NFL going into last season.
Fair assessment of Offense versus Division  
Jimmy Googs : 7/31/2014 12:30 pm : link
O-line could be getting better in a hurry but still lags behind the others until we all see it.

Defensive ranks would all clearly be better...
RE: RE: For years...  
Toth029 : 7/31/2014 12:33 pm : link
In comment 11788120 Vin R said:
Quote:

Tickets to the 2008 NFC Championship game

Only one playoff win and that was in 2009's playoffs.
While he is correct on most fronts,  
barens : 7/31/2014 12:37 pm : link
did he forget to rank the QB's? Or is just supposed to be the negatives?
RE: RE: RE: For years...  
Vin R : 7/31/2014 12:38 pm : link
In comment 11788342 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 11788120 Vin R said:

Quote:



Tickets to the 2008 NFC Championship game


Only one playoff win and that was in 2009's playoffs.

Link - ( New Window )
Very fair assessment.  
TMS : 7/31/2014 12:39 pm : link
Right on about trying to get all these new players trained and developed into a new scheme in one season. Odds are against it but you never know.
He's not wrong.  
Red Dog : 7/31/2014 1:18 pm : link
Five years of bad drafts (2008 through 2012) have left the GIANTS behind most of the NFC in real talent. Throw in all the injuries and retirements and they are in real trouble. So they had to scramble and sign a whole bunch of cast-offs to fill the roster.
With an average OL, better running backs  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/31/2014 1:41 pm : link
And a scheme that also can mitigate that OL MAKE Eli the clear best QB in the division hand down. Romo has back issues and that D is going to put a ton of pressure on that O. Nick Foles is not a bad QB but last years performance was very scheme related and w a year of film even w McCoy I don't think he comes close. RGIII was really bad but you get to discount his season but not a bad season by Eli who has actually won two Superbowls and was the main reason down the stretch for one they won one

QB is the biggest wild card and none of the other 3 come nearly close enough if the Giants fix the biggest issues they had. This new O if they can come close to the production GB gets could look insane if they give Eli time and open up holes in the running game.

Reese fucking up the OL made every player on the te last year look border line NFL level. It all hinges on that group.
You all will feel a little better....  
njm : 7/31/2014 1:51 pm : link
when he talks about Dallas' D compared to the rest of the NFC East.
I would take issue with Mr Graziano  
ChicagoMarty : 7/31/2014 1:57 pm : link
with regard to his WR analysis

Specifically he states that Terrance Williams the #2 wr for the Cowboys has shown more than anyone the Giants have at #2.

He further slams the Jints wrs by saying you'd like to see something out of Ruben Randle and ODB...

Well Mr Graziano lets compare Terrance Williams and Ruben Randle's 2013 stats

TW caught a total of 44 passes last year with an impressive 16.7 yard per catch average with 15 passes over 20 yards and 5 touchdowns

RR caught a total of 41 passes for a 14.9 average with 16 passes over 20 yeards and six touchdowns

It seems to me that the stats are pretty close certainly close enough that RR has demonstrated "a little something" and that's before we compare KR and PR stats

Odell has not had a chance yet obviously to show a little something but Ruben certainly has

Btw what do the Cows do if Bryant's balky back acts up? What happens if little Cole Beasley goes out with an owie?

Jints depth at wr is better then the Cows at both RB and WR

Talk is cheap Mr Graziano. Get your facts right if you are going to dis the Jints
Graziano and BSPNů.  
Ed A. : 7/31/2014 2:24 pm : link
Loves taking shots at the Giants. It's what they do. Mosley and Ohm were too kind to the Giants. Ergo, BSPN brought in Graziano who is making them happy. I personally do not read anything from Graziano because it almost always make my blood boil.
Our offensive talent may lack in the division  
eli4life : 7/31/2014 2:34 pm : link
But its still more talented than the defenses we will face in division. Our defense at minimum matches the other teams. Imho they surpass all other division opponents except Dallas who I think it's pretty even
Giants' Offensive Talent Trails Rest of NFC East  
Kulish29 : 7/31/2014 2:43 pm : link
Yeah, on paper right now.

Articles (or blog posts)like this are pointless.
If one of Dallas' top three WRs go down, they'll fall back on TEs more  
Riggies : 7/31/2014 2:48 pm : link
They have that option. The Giants very much do not.

I can't speak confidently as to what Dallas' RB depth is, but the Giants don't have great RB depth. They have a one-ish year 29 year old wonder, a rookie who can't catch to save his life, and scrubs that any and every team have.
Escobar  
ChicagoMarty : 7/31/2014 3:42 pm : link
has underachieved for a seocnd round draft choice

Hanna the Cow third string TE is a seventh rounder who can't block a lick

Cows have a HOFer in Witten at TE but should his age catch up to him his year I don't think anyone fears his backups

If DeMarco Murray goes down and he has some injury history what do the Cows have behind him? No one that could make the Giants that is for sure.
I like our potential,  
phil in arizona : 7/31/2014 4:59 pm : link
but I expect a lot of growing pains as things get sorted out. We won't know what we really have here for some time.
it's not even close?  
djm : 7/31/2014 5:09 pm : link
when did the Skins set the bar exactly? Garcon is very very good. JAckson is....Jackson....and then what? They have average RBs. A decent young TE and good ole Bob at QB. Their OL is average at best...

Dallas has the OL and Murray is a very good RB when he's healthy. They have the TE and one damn good WR.

Philly has the greatest QB ever but he's only done it once and they have McCoy. Who are their WRs again?

Whatever...talk is cheap...every team in the east has questions all over the roster. I have a hard time believing that the Giants have the least amount of offensive talent in this division. The Skins don't scare anyone and Philly lost their best WR. OF course when Philly loses a player it's addition by subtraction. When the Giants lose a WR the sky is falling.
I actually think  
Don in DC : 7/31/2014 5:10 pm : link
we might have the best collection of passing game talent in the NFC East if Beckham justifies his draft slot and Randle blossoms in MacAdoo's new offense. I think both of those scenarios are quite likely, assuming Beckham gets healthy. Of course, TE is a position of weakness, but my guess is that someone on the roster is going to rise to the occasion and play well in that slot.

At RB, Wilson I think has to be assumed to be a bust at this point -- a guy who, due to injury, will never fulfill his potential or live up to his draft slot. But I still think our roster of Jennings, Williams and Hillis has a lot of promise at RB.

Guess we'll see. But I am actually pretty optimistic about our offensive talent level.



RE: Offensive talent article that doesn't mention QB?  
River Mike : 7/31/2014 5:12 pm : link
In comment 11788320 BillT said:
Quote:
Seems like a pretty big piece to leave out. But hey, maybe that's just me.


? ...
Quote:
The focus will always be on the quarterback, but I think Eli Manning is the least of this team's concerns. He's 33, which is still a prime age for a quarterback in 2014, and there's no reason to think his mental or physical skills have eroded. The issue is the group around him, and the more you look at it compared with its chief competition, the more it starts to look substandard.

He definitely does mention QB, but he didn't do a comparison here because he says QB is not an issue with the Giants.
who knows what happens this year  
djm : 7/31/2014 5:13 pm : link
but what do August of 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 and 2011 have in common?

The Giants were supposed to suck those years too. In August of 2009 the Giants were the shit until October rolled around. Everyone loved this team heading into 2003. Same with 2006.

Everyone laughed at Philly heading into the 2013 season. Same with the Skins in 2012. Everyone just loved Dallas heading into 2008...2010...etc etc

If this division has taught us one thing it's to always expect the exact opposite to occur. Which is why it's awesome that Dallas goes 8-8 every year.
It's about offensive talent, not overall  
fanatic : 7/31/2014 7:16 pm : link
some posters can't seem to distinguish that.

If you evaluate the entire offense of the NFC east teams, NY would probably come in last.

Last year NY had the least rushing, least passing, and thus least total yards of any of the teams. They also scored the least amount of points.

Take into account a system change and it would not be a stretch to place them last.
RE: He's not wrong.  
TMS : 7/31/2014 8:15 pm : link
In comment 11788465 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Five years of bad drafts (2008 through 2012) have left the GIANTS behind most of the NFC in real talent. Throw in all the injuries and retirements and they are in real trouble. So they had to scramble and sign a whole bunch of cast-offs to fill the roster.
This post is spot on. Reese, his staff and whoever else is advising him have performed dismally in getting replacement talent on this team. It is not the coaching staff.
We have no true way of knowing yet  
SGMen : 7/31/2014 9:38 pm : link
Look, I generally agree with the article. "On paper" it would seem we are 3rd or 4th in most every area but that is on paper, not on the field. I think Eli is the NFC East's best QB. I think we will run the ball much better than most think. I also believe Randle will surprise and have a very good season. Lastly, we have to hope our young TE's emerge and scare people. There is no way to know that until the games start.

I like our defense. I hate the fact that Will Hill came up positive and was cut. I saw him having a stud year #2 with th Giants but alas it was not to be. Beason's injury hurts but we have some talent at LB and Beason will be back by game #2 the latest - watch.

Overall, I think ST's will be improved and I don't see us turning the ball over a sick amount of times like last year.

9-7 maybe 10-6 and the playoffs.
By no means do I think NYG's O is tops in the div, but his logic sucks  
ChaChing : 7/31/2014 11:41 pm : link
So because one LT is better than the other (ignoring the other 4 OLs), WAS OL > NYG OL. And while I'd give you Tyron Smith (tho still more potential than production), are we really saying Doug Free and 3 guys with at most 1 yr under their belt are definitively better than our other 4? Too many Qs across all 3 teams' OLs to say who is best.

Then WRs Williams & Cooper who had nearly the same stats last year as RR are hands down better? That too ignoring Cooper's inflated stats in Kelly's O, esp given our new O. Maclin/Cooper > Cruz/Randle? Cruz > Maclin and it's not that close. Yet Dez > Cruz (fair, but MUCH closer) + the TWill nonsense = DAL WRs are clearly better? "...you'd like to see something out of RR & OBJ...", yet TWill with the same stats has proven better than RR 'just because.' (While rookie Z.Martin is already a solid OL starter in DAL to conveniently prove his point). Graz cherry picks stats then ignores the same from NYG's POV though it's an NYG article.

IMO the only thing we know is who is first (WAS has the #1 WRs, PHI the best RBs / maybe OL). Ironically he missed TE where NYG is in fact last. It's not much of an opinion if you can't say why you think it or simply choose to ignore relevant info. Of course their job is to get clicks while writing multiple articles each day, not necessarily provide actual insight. I just hate how many abandon all logic yet dress it up with nonsense stats and inferences to make it look like a real argument. Even if his opinion is correct which is possible, he has not provided relevant support at all.
my bad...he didn't miss TE...I did  
ChaChing : 7/31/2014 11:43 pm : link
That part is right of course...we just might be 32nd as of this moment...
I think its a fair article.  
yatqb : 7/31/2014 11:50 pm : link
We need the OL to come together and demonstrate an ability to run block and pass protect, and our receivers to play to the level that Nicks did before last year's debacle of a season. We also will need the team to get this offense down ASAP to have a solid start to the season.

I'm hoping for the best but feel that we need to be patient.
Sadly, it's pretty dead on  
TD : 8/1/2014 12:33 am : link
I'd rank them last in the division and near last in the conference in O talent. Their D is really gonna have to stay healthy and carry them if they want to sniff the playoffs.

The O just looks patchwork to me..
I'm not that concerned. I think his analysis was basically correct,  
Ira : 8/1/2014 5:21 am : link
but we're not in bad shape in any of those areas and better than last season in all of them.
1) Cruz is a top receiver and OBj s/b an upgrade over the way Nicks played last season. Randle should continue to improve and JJ may turn some heads again.
2) Shwartz, Walton, Richburg, Jerry and Brown, make our ol deeper and better at pass protection and run blocking.
3) Jennings is the most versatile back we've had since Tiki and Wilson will force safeties to move up to the box.
4) Our tight ends - well they can't get much worse.
A very well considered and fair article  
mattlawson : 8/1/2014 10:06 am : link
New offense with totally unproven pieces that make it up. I'm hoping for a surprise from Jennings - donnell - and our WRs
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