Alderson has yet to make a trade not on his terms. No panic moves, no trades to appease the fan base that he is doing something. We still have Thor Matz Herrera Plawecki and I'm fine with it
I used to be a die hard Mets fan, but had to stop following the team
due to my overwhelming frustration and disappointment with how the Mets have been run for the past decade. Can you tell me something objective to give a former die hard hope?
pitching is also legit. It's not some fan BS where Puello is Trout. I personally don't think Niese is ever going to be super healthy, nor do I especially trust Gee's long term health but the Mets have a bunch of very talented pitchers... MUST add 1-2 bats. I should have mentioned the breakout of Duda as well.
RE: I used to be a die hard Mets fan, but had to stop following the team
due to my overwhelming frustration and disappointment with how the Mets have been run for the past decade. Can you tell me something objective to give a former die hard hope?
They have plentiful legitimate young starting pitching, and some interesting young bullpen arms doing work.
And they still have Matt Harvey, who at his best is capable of being a top-5 starting pitcher.
They closed the first half with an 8-2 homestand, then finished a tough trip out of the break at 5-5 and just took the first series of this current homestand with a series win against the Phillies.
They are playing entertaining, solid baseball right now and Wheeler and deGrom starts are pretty dang fun. Also, Duda and d'Arnaud have come alive with the bat.
I'm enjoying watching this Mets team more than I have since 2008, and even more than that given that the future seems very bright to me.
I think the players have to clear waivers. Last year's Byrd for Black and Herrera happened in late August. Trades like this are unusual, but they do happen.
At this point they **could** do everything they needed to in FA
I agree with Dan, they are 1-2 bats away, which could obviously be filled at SS and/or LF.
If I was Sandy and under his budget, I'd fill one of those spots by trading 1 of Montero/Gee/Niese (as the centerpiece of a package), and who I trade for would be determined by the value on the trade market. The other spot I'd fill via FA based on the remaining budget and level of player they get in the trade. If I get CarGo in a deal with 1 of those guys as the centerpiece, I'm ok spending less at SS. Hopefully replenish some of the spare parts that need to get included in the deal with whatever Colon can bring back.
That said, if they were operating like a true NY franchise as they should be, the move would be to sign Hanley Ramirez or Mike Morse, or both.
Unless we were absolutely blown away for Colon or Murphy what is the point of trading them?? We could trade both in the offseason for just as much of a return if not more and in Murphy's case even next trading deadline, and they are still useful for the team now while others aren't ready yet.
As for acquiring a player?? The big bats didn't get moved and will likely get moved in the offseason. Do we really need a Ludwick right now?? Sandy clearly is in on Cargo and others. We'll get somebody in the offseason.
I think we need ONE middle of the lineup bat and the other we can go cheap or in-house OR get two solid players rather than one big bat. Either way would be fine.
If we acquired a Cargo or Kemp I'd be fine going Flores/Reynolds/Tovar next year.
If we can't get the really big bat something like Cuddyer and Lowrie would be fine too.
We will have an elite rotation next year, and elite bullpen next year, and a middle of the lineup with Murphy, Wright, Granderson, Duda, Acquisition, and TDA is MORE than enough in the NL.
I'd rather we do nothing than something stupid to make a splash
Which is a road the Wilponzies have pushed their FO down more than once in recent years. The pitching needs to continue to develop and this is key...stay healthy. If that happens the future is bright even if we have to wait a couple more seasons for some in house bats to come along.
Why? just to keep the guys loose with clubhouse antics? He's not a good baseball player anymore. And he can't play D at all really. Isn't he a 1B/DH primarily?
Which is a road the Wilponzies have pushed their FO down more than once in recent years. The pitching needs to continue to develop and this is key...stay healthy. If that happens the future is bright even if we have to wait a couple more seasons for some in house bats to come along.
Eh. See this I don't agree with. There's only so many bullets in a lot of these pitchers arms. On top of that they are going to be worth a fortune in a few years, could end up injured, ect. Having a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Syndergaard, ect young, healthy, and making peanuts could blow up in any moment for a number of reasons. Likewise, Granderson, Wright, ect aren't getting younger. Next year I want the roster to look polished heading in. We are only a player or two away. Time to make a run.
roster is talented, up and coming at SP, RP, C, and to a lesser degree 1B and CF, with a top 5 farm system. But be wary -- management is signalling that they're going to remain very cost conscious. It is not at all clear that they are prepared to spend like a big market team should spend. In particular, the GM has said he isnt looking to have a second $100 million player, which is crazy for a big market team.
and from all accounts he's a genuinely good teammate, but I want him nowhere near my team.
Unless he's free and a bench player, maybe a bat off the bench for our playoff run. He's got a lot of veteran leadership and when that's your best quality it's not saying much.
you may want that but ownership has shown no signs of loosening the purse strings. It's a weak free agent class and if we aren't inclined to trade pitching I don't see it going your way.
Let's not forget Niese and Gee have some miles and injury history. TJ surgery isn't the death knell for a pitcher it once was by a long shot but until Harvey proves he IS Harvey that is still a wait and see situation.
I'm not saying the roster will be the same next season but let's just say I expect to see a lot of familiar faces.
See I disagree there too. I'm basically alone in thinking this and don't want to get into a payroll war, but I do believe the Mets have some flexibility. I think heading into this year Sandy was telling the truth when he admitted the payroll could max out around 105 million. I think its probably about the same for next year. With Harvey out, and a lot of players not ready yet, there wasn't really a point of adding a Drew for 15 million, ect. We will have some wiggle room this offseason and add another 18 million if we trade Colon with Young coming off the books. Sure a few guys will get paid more in arbitration but there is ZERO doubt in my mind we can add a Cargo and even another lesser player as well next year without batting an eyelash.
If we just sit back and wait on Nimmo and Conforto to get here, guys like Harvey/Wheeler will be hitting arbitration by then and the payroll will go up 20-25 million anyway. Makes no difference. Might as well go for it now.
Not sure if it was mentioned today because Im just getting home but does anyone else feel a sick bit of joy that Tampa looks to have gotten fleeced for Price?? Its not us paying them back but karma works in mysterious ways. lol. Ok maybe Im crazy.
Isn't a FA and owed 30 million. That's the guy you gamble on? Talent and money? He's been in decline for 2 years. He's 34, he's likely close to done and a 1b.
15 million a year to swisher is a HUGE amount for a team whose payroll will almost certainly be 85-95... They have 53 committed before they go
To arbitration with Murphy, duda, Parnell, Gee, eyj etc. add swisher and the 2015 mets are the 2014 mets plus swisher and Harvey and no other money to spend
But his actions support that there has been room. We would have had Drew if Boras caved. Sandy said over and over again he viewed Drew as a "10 millii dollar player" not a "15 million dollar player". We offered the most money on the market for Belfour. We did nothing with the money left over from trading Ike. I refuse to believe this team doesn't have a 15-20 million dollar buffer right now on top of the 18 million they are likely to clear.
actually. I think we might even be able to squeeze in a Lowrie or Hardy(both price tags shouldn't be crazy) and I'll be a happy man.
There is no way Sandy is at least not going to try to get Cargo and others though first though. He's clearly interested and has all but admitted it and every insider in the industry has said he has had dialogue already. He'll only get him on his terms though. Something like Matz and Nimmo should be enough. He's not trading Thor.
Did I say that's what I would
Do? Please show me where I said or implied this. I said I believe that's what he gets and believe he wi be a met in part because of
Need and part because he's close with Wrigjt
but Cuddyer and a Lowrie would be two solid adds as a consolation. Cuddyer has posted over a .800 ops 6 times and narrowly missed a 7th. He's solid and can hit for some pop and is best friends with Wright. None of that is bad.
offer 1 and 10. Maybe an option he can hit if he stays healthy, or maybe an option with a buyout. He's 35 and will be coming off injury. I don't think he's getting a big deal.
but how much more do we really need? I think most of us agree Harvey, A normal Wright year, and maybe Parnell has us in playoff contention right now. The first half of the year Familia, Mejia, Black, Wheeler, Duda, TDA, and deGrom weren't the players they are now and are likely to be heading into 2015. There will be improvement off that alone. Now add to more solid players to lengthen the lineup?? Ill be pretty happy.
I believe we need more help than you do, obviously. If Duda and TdA continue to hit well, and Wright comes back to form...then we are in much better shape. I'd just like to see them do it a little longer to be comfortable with that assertion.
Out of the three you listed, I'd go after CarGo. I don't want to gut the system for Tulo (and he's a risky sign) and I don't want to go anywhere near Kemp.
they find a Dickerson/Calhoun before they breakout. That's the best/most realistic way for a low payroll team to improve like we need them to. That or gamble right on Tomas and pay him his 40-50 million over 6 years and be a "bargain" at that rate.
too but not sure Sandy's going all in on an unknown when we are adding a final piece or two and expecting to compete.
I wouldn't touch Kemp either unless the Dodgers are chipping in a good amount of money and in that case we are giving up big chips.
I'd be ok with adding a Dickerson/Calhoun but I honestly think the team will be ready to make a run next year. Granderson, Wright, Murphy, and even Duda will all be vets by this time next year. Adding a professional hitter like Cargo just seems smart at this current time.
The Mets can really go in a few different directions and Ill be happy. They really can't fuck it up. Too much good coming.
they find a Dickerson/Calhoun before they breakout. That's the best/most realistic way for a low payroll team to improve like we need them to. That or gamble right on Tomas and pay him his 40-50 million over 6 years and be a "bargain" at that rate.
We're high revenue. Mets fans shouldnt even pretend that there isnt money available for major UFA signings. Fuck Sandy and the Coupons. Dont speak their language or mindset that it is okay for us to get outspent by 20 teams on a semi-permanent basis (I dont object to a targeted rebuild).
1. The Mets SHOULD be able to spend 120-130 million per year at MINIMUM (really more but at minimum)
2. They have made clear that isn't happening any time soon. So yeah, off-season dream scenarios where they add Hanley, Tomas, trade for CarGo etc sound great, it's fantasy for now. I agree, some have been brainwashed to "agree" with the low payroll stuff. "I don't want to overpay!" but it is what it is.
Once Mets fans even humor the Wilpons ridiculous spending levels, it becomes acceptable. We need to keep the pressure up. The talk, on the street, on WFAN/ESPN, and message boards, needs to be the consistent line that the Mets should easily be a top 10 spender, if not top 5. The Post/NYDN need to continue to just assume that the Mets can make full price acquisitions. The Mets and their management should have no piece of mind that their customers accept the bullshit they've been peddling.
So yes, I can discuss which ~$10 million player may look good this offseason. But I wont pretend for a second that the Mets shouldnt be in on the best UFAs.
Will Bryce Harper & Stephen Strasburg become the once in a generation players they were touted to be? It seems to me that the answer is a resounding no on Strasburg and I'm not so sure about Bryce Harper. Then again I thought last year that Giancarlo Stanton was an overrated .260 hitter
Still like the year of matching up wjth the cubs for one of Alcantara, Baez or Russell. They need pitching and catching and we have Plawecki and pitching
Leathersich has looked VERY good this year. He didn't do to well in Vegas last year but he looks to have seriously improved since then. Edgin, Rice, Eveland, ect should be fine with Leathersich joining the team sometime next year. Honestly, our bullpen is going to be stupid next year.
.800+ OPS at 19 and 20? SS I think is a good pitcher. Has been unlucky this year. Not a Kershaw/Harvey type bulldog. I can easily see him winning a Cy Young in a career season though. He's been somewhat unlucky this year -- advance stats indicate he should be better than his ERA/WHIP.
ideal world sandy can trade for a cubs ss or cargo
that the team refuses to spend money on good players who are worth it. They dropped dead weight and there were not many viable contracts worth signing. We'll see this offseason if they are willing to pay people. But no matter what, if some player wants a 8 year 220 mil contract, it won't make me cry if the team doesn't do that. Because fuck that. And there aren't many players worth that investment. If you're a relatively young hitter and are a FA, you may want to check out the young pitching that could be anchoring your team for a bit. May be worth your while to be the reason a team takes a step up.
Cuddyer doesn't do it for me. Give me a guy with 30 HR power.
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
Will Bryce Harper & Stephen Strasburg become the once in a generation players they were touted to be? It seems to me that the answer is a resounding no on Strasburg and I'm not so sure about Bryce Harper. Then again I thought last year that Giancarlo Stanton was an overrated .260 hitter
looing at Harper lately its like he is trying to get traded with all his base running mistakes and lazy chasing after hits
Cuddyer doesn't do it for me. Give me a guy with 30 HR power.
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
What I want is right to get back to at least 20 homers per year then add another 20 to 25 homer guy and were set
Is not once in a generation but he's still very good. His FIP suggests he's been unlucky. Misses a ton of bats, he's the kind of guy who next year goes 22-4 with a 2.40 era and wins cy young. I still fully believe in Harper but he needs to grow up. He says some really stupid shit and I think his ego holds him back. Like strasburg I could see a monster breakout. Once in a generation? I'd be betting on Harper over very good but not Godlike Strasburg.
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
Still like the year of matching up wjth the cubs for one of Alcantara, Baez or Russell. They need pitching and catching and we have Plawecki and pitching
Alcantara for KP? I could add. Schwarber strictly OF? Im also selling on Montero -- I like him, but as of now he's our 5th most projectable AAA/MLB young RHP (Harvey, Wheeler, Thor, deGrom).
Sandy openly admitted it will be tough to fit in a huge money player given the current payroll restraints. Well see what happens in the offseason but the money stuff isn't fan created. It's legit
Cuddyer doesn't do it for me. Give me a guy with 30 HR power.
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
I'm well aware. You have to trade for one. Cuddyer as the "answer" in LF just is very "meh" to me. That's a guy who I believe will be thoroughly average away from Coors at this point in his career. He's 35 years old. That doesn't seem like much of a solution to me.
RE: I'm waiting for evidence that they WILL spend.
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
Technically can't be traded for quite a while (plus the cubs love him) but he's an OF almost 100%. Cubs and Mets sure seem like potential trade partners on paper
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
That's my entire point. It was about money. Neither Ike Davis or Lucas Duda at that point in time should have ever prevented us from pursuing Abreu. We lucked out a bit because of Duda's breaking out.. but if Duda was going to be this player, I would have dealt with him being a butcher in LF next to Lagares.
Sandy openly admitted it will be tough to fit in a huge money player given the current payroll restraints. Well see what happens in the offseason but the money stuff isn't fan created. It's legit
team finishing strong and getting more people to come out to ballpark could help. That's probably why colon wasn't moved. I don't consider 54 mil over 3 years to be huge money, tulo's contract is huge money though
and if we can't get that I at least want some solid players but at what point are we trying to build that 2006 lineup again (aka the greatest lineup in Mets history)??? We have two players that should be in their prime that have hit 30 home runs multiple times in their careers. We have another hitter looking like he's going to hit 30+ home runs going forward out of thin air this year. We have another fantastic hitter all-star battling for the league in hits. We have one of the most promising young hitting catchers in the game.
How greedy do we have to be before we are happy? Our rotation next year will be bananas. Our bullpen next year will be bananas. Look at the lineups around the NL? We are going to be good next year. All Sandy talks about is how he is looking to upgrade the team if not now then the offseason. Unless disaster and injuries derails us we are going to be playing with the big boys next year.
RE: RE: RE: I'm waiting for evidence that they WILL spend.
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
That's my entire point. It was about money. Neither Ike Davis or Lucas Duda at that point in time should have ever prevented us from pursuing Abreu. We lucked out a bit because of Duda's breaking out.. but if Duda was going to be this player, I would have dealt with him being a butcher in LF next to Lagares.
I think it was all mental with Duda and he wouldn't have hit like this if he was still playing OF
the Mets can win with corner OFers of Granderson and Cuddyer if they shore up SS and Wright and TDA hit.
In the next year or two.
beyond that those guys are too old. Cuddyer is already 35 and Granderson is 33. Has a team been successful with a 38 and 35 year old starting corner OFer?
If Cuddyer is a two year (one - plus really) bridge to Conforto I'm ok with that.
More than trading a ton of prospects for a huge contract.
and if we can't get that I at least want some solid players but at what point are we trying to build that 2006 lineup again (aka the greatest lineup in Mets history)??? We have two players that should be in their prime that have hit 30 home runs multiple times in their careers. We have another hitter looking like he's going to hit 30+ home runs going forward out of thin air this year. We have another fantastic hitter all-star battling for the league in hits. We have one of the most promising young hitting catchers in the game.
How greedy do we have to be before we are happy? Our rotation next year will be bananas. Our bullpen next year will be bananas. Look at the lineups around the NL? We are going to be good next year. All Sandy talks about is how he is looking to upgrade the team if not now then the offseason. Unless disaster and injuries derails us we are going to be playing with the big boys next year.
as long as Harvey comes back close to what he was I think your right
Would really like to keep Thor and Matz, and to a lesser degree Nimmo. Can easily be talked out of Plawecki, Smith, Montero, particularly the later two. I know it is early, but the lack of power from Smith is very troubling. Is there a precedent for a successful 1B on a HR-less streak like this?
with all the Cargo talk he is his official contract info
Carlos Gonzalez cf
7 years/$80M (2011-17)
7 years/$80M (2011-17)
signed extension with Colorado 1//11/11
$3M signing bonus
11:$1M, 12:$5M, 13:$7.5M, 14:$10.5M, 15:$16M, 16:$17M, 17:$20M
award bonuses: $25,000 each for Gold
Glove, All-Star selection. $50,000 for Silver Slugger. $75,000 for LCS
MVP. $0.1M each for MVP, WS MVP
$1M assignment bonus if traded
My point was more, they have been open about having payroll constraints, this isnf just fans complaining. That quote is from 2 days ago . Sandy has acknowledged it on many occasions aka "the fans need to come out"
I don't think it's "greedy" to want one more power hitter at least.
Would really like to keep Thor and Matz, and to a lesser degree Nimmo. Can easily be talked out of Plawecki, Smith, Montero, particularly the later two. I know it is early, but the lack of power from Smith is very troubling. Is there a precedent for a successful 1B on a HR-less streak like this?
My point was more, they have been open about having payroll constraints, this isnf just fans complaining. That quote is from 2 days ago . Sandy has acknowledged it on many occasions aka "the fans need to come out"
I knew that was your point "Huge contract " is up for debate.
but we also know he's been calling Colorado telling them to absolutely make sure to call the Mets before they trade them. The payroll hasn't recovered from Madoff yet but he absolutely is working with a buffer and that's the way he likes it for now if I had to guess. Plus we are clearing a nice hunk of salary if Colon is gone with Young as well.
Cargo makes 15 million a year. We can add him in our sleep.
He's the same age Beltran was when we got him. I think he still has some good years in him if he can stay healthy. I guess Cuddyer is ok if you just want a bridge to Conforto but it's just very.. meh.. to me.
isn't my dream acquisition. After Cargo, Tulo, and maybe Kemp how many other guys are going to be available in a trade that even have 30 home run capability?? The market takes a severe step downwards once acquiring one of those doesn't work out. Free agency is likely to be very lame again and if that's the case I'll take Cuddyer and a Lowrie. He's a professional hitter and a hell of a lot better than what we've had. Probably a one year deal with an option until Nimmo/Conforto get here. I can live with that and keep all the kiddos. We were fine adding Alou at 40 because we were going for it, Cuddyer at 35/36 won't kill this team in anyway.
realize Familia and Mejia are about to break Mets records. They've been the best 8th/9th inning combo for the Mets in over a decade. Crazy considering they didn't even get going until months into the season.
Black, Torres, Edgin, Leatherich, and possibly Parnell being added back is all extra GRAVY.
Would really like to keep Thor and Matz, and to a lesser degree Nimmo. Can easily be talked out of Plawecki, Smith, Montero, particularly the later two. I know it is early, but the lack of power from Smith is very troubling. Is there a precedent for a successful 1B on a HR-less streak like this?
With Smith, this is just one of those things that Im going to just trust the experts for now. They all believe his bat is quick enough and he will generate power eventually. He's very small for a 1st baseman at 6' which gives me pause but Wright is about that hight and we've seen him hit 30 home runs. Its certainly possible. He's so young. Let's just wait and see what happens. Might not need him any more with THE DUDE taking over the Big Apple.
you are a tad too optimistic here and its making me uncomfortable lol.
I have a prediction that Niese is moved next year and Matz comes up as the new Lefty.
Yeah, I tend to be optimistic, but I really don't think Im that far off. I find it much more enjoyable to watch my sports looking for the good then the bad all the time. I get called a unicorn and rainbow thinker but Ive never really been wrong. I predicted 2014 we would be back to competing but Harvey's injury pushed that back a year. I thought we'd be in the 77-82 win range this year after Harvey went down. People make fun of me but I have no problem absorbing it. Only way I know how to be. Its a game and its supposed to be fun.
the piece of shit Marlins are going to get awesome right at the same time we get where we want and be a colossal pain in the ass thorn in our side once again? Its coming, everybody should just expect it. I think if the Marlins ended our season on the last day of the year ever again(extremely unlikely) Id give up baseball forever. I hate them that much.
he Mets GM pointed to the fact: Weve got a 20 and 15, referring to the salaries of David Wright and Curtis Granderson.
He was asked: What about $20 (million), $20 (million) and $15 (million)?
Alderson, always ready with a quip about Mets finances, answered: 20, 20, 15 and what, 22 dwarfs?
This quote is complete bullshit. He was 100 % joking and those that actually followed the Rubin piece days ago know that he flat out said he'd rather add one big player then a bunch of smaller ones. He even said he would add the right player at the right time and thats what its all about. He in no way shape or form implied we can't add another big player. He was messing with the reporters.
I believe Sandy will have more money than we expect in the offseason
He had more money this past year to offer Drew/Balfour, which he was able to pocket (turns out luckily). That certainly indicates a payroll more in the 95M-100M range is not out of the question.
One would hope that savings this year, plus the money they saved on Ike can get re-invested next year. Colon & CY will only be around for these next 2 months (if that).
All that said, I don't know that there's a 20M player out there that's even worth acquiring when you factor in trade cost. Tulo will cost way too much in terms of prospects. Maybe Hanley if he makes it to FA? If Kemp gets dealt the Dodgers are probably kicking in enough $ to bring him into the 15M range.
Out of all the names out there Carlos Gonzalez makes the most sense. I'd want to hang on to Wheeler/Matz/Thor/DeGrom at all costs. Just about anyone else would be on the table.
but that would be a no brainer. Moving Plawecki is easy since we have d'Arnaud and Montero is pretty far down the starter list for us right now. Im guessing it takes at least another top 10 prospect though.
We're talking about a guy who a) literally has never played a full season once in his career yet, b) is hitting .232 this year and c) is a guy people are going to say "well, can he do it outside of Coors?"
I'm not sure he'd cost THAT much more than that. And if he does, I'd probably pass. Plawecki is considered our 2nd best prospect right now. Montero is just outside the top 5 at 6.
cost much more. I think part of it is that i was slightly disappointed with Montero when he was up here so i guess in my head i downgraded him (And i know thats stupid with small sample size and all that).
Im sold on d'Arnaud enough to move Plawecki. The injury stuff is a concern but i dont think it would be good use of our assets to keep both, u just have to kinda roll the dice that d'arnaud can stay healthy. Perhaps a vet upgrade as the backup C would be a smart move though.
I am ok with saying "this is our guy" going forward. He's got an .827 OPS since his recall and he's looked much better. I think he's got it going now and I think this is 100% who he is and can be (and he can still get a little better)
You have to figure that the rotation is going to be very good to outstanding. Bullpen also looks pretty set right now. If Parnell comes back OK, you could say we'd have four guys who could legitimately be considered closer types.
Out in the field, right now I think I can safely say that six of the eight starting positions are going to be filled by players who are Major League average or better.
That's a pretty good base to start from. I don't think the Mets have been this solid in a long time. Plug the hole in LF with an MLB average player or better and I think the team should be in the playoff mix.
RE: Wonder of Montero/Plawecki + gets it done for CarGo.
I used the comparison earlier of huge David Price trade. One of huge top lefties in the game. It took a similar package of montero/Niese, Plawecki, and Rosario.
I think a Montero/Gee and Plawecki would definitely get CarGo, based on the above. I'd prefer to hold onto Plawecki if we are getting CarGo though. Plawecki and Thor will be the two "must include" in any Tulo/Stanton type of trade talks
Catcher: I'm happy to go with TdA at this point. He seems like a good bet.
Flores: I think we have to get him at bats down the stretch. He trade value is depressed, and I dont want to try him out next year when things matter, instead of now.
Montero: A guy I'd trade since we have so many RHPs in front of him. But I suspect his trade value isnt commensurate with his minor league success. Doesnt throw super hard, and was a late bloomer. Not the type of pitcher another GM will lust for.
As for targets, I'd be much happier committing to a long term solution at SS this offseason than LF. Still think Conforto/Nimmo can competently handle LF by 2016 at least in a platoon with a vet. Though ideally Nimmo stays in center.
I haven't seen him pitch. I read the Toby Hyde article saying that once he improves his curveball he's MLB ready. I don't know how long that typically takes.
Is he a guy they are looking for 2nd half of 2015? 2016? I know it obviously depends on trades and injuries, but current projection?
assuming they trade Colon next year, the rotation is still stacked. I don't see room for him. And is he BEHIND or AHEAD of Montero? Being a lefty, it seems like a different category.
maybe they can start him in the pen in the MLB level? not for good, just until they have a spot for him. that gives them a nasty lefty coming out of the pen.
I dont think that will excite the Rockies. Plawecki would be their best C prospect, but they already have a guy in AA who could be ready next year and would rank around #10 if he was a Mets prospect. Montero doesnt necessarily fit their style -- the LOVE fireballers because balls dont break as well in Denver.
They absolutely need a LF power bat. Period. Enough with this "we can stick anyone there, given our rotation" BS. And preferably, they need to find a SS who can leadoff, so Grandy can be moved down.
A 3-4-5-6 of Wright, Grandy, (power bat LF), Duda is pretty good.
Not to beat a dead horse, but too bad they never had a SS in the farm system who can bat leadoff.
The power bat would preferably come in RF, and Grandy moves.
For all the talk about needing a power bat, I completely agree a little speed wouldn't hurt this team. A great leadoff hitter would be a very welcome addition.
They absolutely need a LF power bat. Period. Enough with this "we can stick anyone there, given our rotation" BS. And preferably, they need to find a SS who can leadoff, so Grandy can be moved down.
A 3-4-5-6 of Wright, Grandy, (power bat LF), Duda is pretty good.
Not to beat a dead horse, but too bad they never had a SS in the farm system who can bat leadoff.
Oh, wait...
See I'd agree with you if Duda didn't just come out of thin air. No doubt we need an upgrade in LF, but how is Cuddyer, a guy who has OPSed over .800 6 times not an upgrade? You guys want Murphy, Wright, Duda, Superstar hall of famer, Granderson, TDA or your not happy??? That gives us the best lineup in the NL on top of the one of the top rotations on top of one of the top bullpens.
easiest places to upgrade are obviously LF and SS because our talent there is sucky. But (according to Baseball Reference), we're exactly average in LF production at -0.2 WAR, ahead of contenders STL (-.3), LAD (-.9), WASH (-1.1), and SF (-1.5). We're 22nd overall in SS WAR (-.8), but ahead of OAK and DET (30th overall at -1.8!).
Our worst position has been Catcher, where we are 29th overall getting -1.8 WAR. Overall, our miserable outfield with the ancient Grandy, no hit Lagares, and LF blackhole of death is the 10th most productive in basevall (1.6 WAR), better than LAD, NYY, SF, DET, WASH, and STL.
No team is better than average everywhere. Oakland is bottom 3rd in 2B and SS. LAD is substandard at RP, C, LF, and CF, while LAA is behind at SP, RP, 3B, and DH. Link - ( New Window )
You can get Stanton AND Tulo. It's a dream world, but give the Rockies and Marlins 5 of our top 10 prospects each. Marlins get 1,3,5,7,9. Rockies get 2,4,6,8,10. Insert Tulo and Stanton in the lineup. Don't need a farm with this team... Instant contender. Payroll is up 40-$45mm. Call it $130mm.
Trade Colon, down to $120mm. Recoup a B or C prospect
Trade grandy for a younger (aka less expensive LF, preferably leadoff type). Save another $15mm. Down to $105mm. Our magic number we have all been targeting.
Like I said. I think CarGo is the guy to go for. I really don't think he'll cost the moon like Stanton would (although if MIA would listen to offers for him I'd certainly be making one) and I like his upside more and he's still young. He just seems like a good fit to me. Add him, find something just a little better than Tejada, get Harvey back and I'm pretty comfortable with this team going forward.
RE: Perspective of what prospects are needed to deal
I used the comparison earlier of huge David Price trade. One of huge top lefties in the game. It took a similar package of montero/Niese, Plawecki, and Rosario.
I think a Montero/Gee and Plawecki would definitely get CarGo, based on the above. I'd prefer to hold onto Plawecki if we are getting CarGo though. Plawecki and Thor will be the two "must include" in any Tulo/Stanton type of trade talks
Remember that Tampa really liked Nick Franklin, so it's not that easy to compare what they got to what the Mets have.
Tampa could have requested Duda (we know they tried to get him in the past) and Wheeler.
A Montero/Gee & Plawecki does not get Gonzalez, MAYBE where the Mets were to eat the majority of his remaining $$$, but still. If I'm Colorado, my starting asking price for Gonzo is Wheeler, d'Arnaud and Matz/Nimmo.
Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Instant contenders?? Lol. It would make us the best team of all time.
We don't need to do major changes to be competitive.
As of now they are 7 games out of first place with :
-no Harvey
-a bullpen that start with Farnsworth and Valverde who cost us several games
-TDA trying struggling most of the first half of the season
-Ike/Dude mess which now has been resolved
-a down year from Wright
-a manager who costs us games!
Obviously injuries could happen next year, or Duda and TDA could regress but the team has vastly improved since April.
Meh. Hanley may make only marginally more than Colon + C Young. Everyone assumes he resigns with the Dodgers, but of course everyone assumed Cano would resign. We'll see what the Dodgers finances really are this offseason. Forbes says that the Dodgers lost $80 million last season. No idea what the projections are for this year or whether LA is hurt at all by the failure of TWC to sell the Dodgers rights to other providers (only 30% of homes in market are getting games right now). And remember -- that team was bought on a ton of borrowed money.
we need to get out of this bargain team mentality. if player A helps the team more than player B, sign player A.
Amen. We are a high revenue team. Dont let the Wilpons pretend otherwise. Frankly I think the reporters should be harassing the Sandy et al on this point every day. Though I will say that the Post doesnt pretend for a second that significant signings are out of reach.
Even if LAD don't retain Hanley, I don't trust the Mets FO to outbid other teams for his services. It has been a long time since we made that type of splash and I don't see it coming now.
Would I like to add Hanley? Absofuckinglutely. Sign Hanley, then a Cuddyer makes perfect sense as a bridge to Conforto/Nimmo and let's roll. But I just don't see it happening. I really don't.
And no matter how many times any of us say the Mets' spending is BS and that they can afford to, it's not going to change the way they operate. This should be a 130M payroll ballclub. There are no excuses. But I'd be stunned to see it jump much higher than 100 any time soon.
Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Instant contenders?? Lol. It would make us the best team of all time.
The problem with this scenario, other the farm being shot, is that our depth would be an issue if injuries were to hit.
Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I know it won't happen. And it's a "dream". But is it not doable to trade five prospects from our top ten and safely say we could land anyone outside of Trout? And that's a huge overpay!! Do it twice and clear our top ten, fine by me.
Funny thing is, I created a dream scenario that is
A) realistic
B) fits exactl within the teams current financial constraints
Morse's 2013 scared me but it looks like he's back to being the guy he was prior. It wouldn't be a bad gamble. I think I'd probably go for Morse over Cuddyer.
Lets say the Mets traded organizations and staium/league with the Yankees -- so the Bombers are now in the NL East at Citi with David Wright and Thor on the way and friends, etc. They assume the fair Citi debt, but none of the other BS debt the Coupons loaded up the team/SNY with.
What would the Yankees do this offseason? First, they'd chase the top two FAs -- Scherzer and HanRam. Biggest organizational hole is SS, and HanRam fills it. Scherzer and Harvey are the co-aces of the 2015 staff. One of Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor is traded for a big OF bat or a similarly valuable AAA OF prospect. Or a 3rd current ace pitcher. And they'd be in on whatever comes out of Cuba/Japan this winter.
Mets wont do it. But lets not pretend like it isnt an option on the table. In fact, given the amount of ticket revenue they're leaving on the table, the upside from 65% ownership of SNY, and the good chance that the other NY will suck, its not at all clear that this would be a net drag on revenues. Playing around with Bloomberg's data on sources of team revenue for 2013 and recognizing that attendance is AT LEAST 50% below what it would be if we were competitive, there is probably an easy $50+ million in extra revenue available from goosing attendance from the 2.1 million (2013) to 3.1 million. And of course ticket prices would go up and SNY would churn out even more money. And no one has bought Mets gear in years, so there is a lot of pent up demand for new merchandise... http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html - ( New Window )
Lets say the Mets traded organizations and staium/league with the Yankees -- so the Bombers are now in the NL East at Citi with David Wright and Thor on the way and friends, etc. They assume the fair Citi debt, but none of the other BS debt the Coupons loaded up the team/SNY with.
What would the Yankees do this offseason? First, they'd chase the top two FAs -- Scherzer and HanRam. Biggest organizational hole is SS, and HanRam fills it. Scherzer and Harvey are the co-aces of the 2015 staff. One of Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor is traded for a big OF bat or a similarly valuable AAA OF prospect. Or a 3rd current ace pitcher. And they'd be in on whatever comes out of Cuba/Japan this winter.
Mets wont do it. But lets not pretend like it isnt an option on the table. In fact, given the amount of ticket revenue they're leaving on the table, the upside from 65% ownership of SNY, and the good chance that the other NY will suck, its not at all clear that this would be a net drag on revenues. Playing around with Bloomberg's data on sources of team revenue for 2013 and recognizing that attendance is AT LEAST 50% below what it would be if we were competitive, there is probably an easy $50+ million in extra revenue available from goosing attendance from the 2.1 million (2013) to 3.1 million. And of course ticket prices would go up and SNY would churn out even more money. And no one has bought Mets gear in years, so there is a lot of pent up demand for new merchandise... http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html - ( New Window )
Great post. I completely agree.
I'll just add the suggestion that you follow the approach that I take. Ignore the Wilpon/payroll stuff during the season and follow the team and prospects instead. There's plenty of time to get furious about this in the offseason. Right now, there's a lot of interesting things going on with the team. Try to focus on that and let's discuss the Wilpons in the offseason.
Us talking about the Mets spending more money isn't ever going to force them to or change the way they operate.
Sure, maybe the revenue is there to expand payroll and maybe it's more feasible than we think. But the people who own and run this team choose to do business their way at the end of the day and no matter how much we riot and scream about how they need to spend more money, it doesn't appear that is at all imminent.
So, really. We just have to hope that within the constraints they've created, they're able to field a competitive team by having young kids give us major production on cheap rookie deals and allow us to maximize value in enough spots to negate some of the payroll deficiency elsewhere.
I think with the correct moves, the Mets actually can compete with a payroll around like 100M there's really no way around the fact that it makes it more difficult to do so.
can discuss whatever they want. I just offered the suggestion because it's something I do to preserve my own sanity and help me enjoy the season more. As a Mets/Isles fan, there's infinite reasons to be frustrated with ownership.
But the people who own and run this team choose to do business their way at the end of the day and no matter how much we riot and scream about how they need to spend more money, it doesn't appear that is at all imminent.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
1. Agree 100% that if the Mets acted with the urgency they should this offseason (aka as the Yankees do every year, even when they shouldn't) Hanley Ramirez would be a Met. The Backup plan would be some combo of Morse, Scherzer, Lester - and maybe a fill in trade somewhere with the pitching excess.
2. While I do not expect the Mets to spend to the level of point #1, I do think it will be more than we fans expect. I think CarGo is 100% a top option and Starlin Castro may be up there as well. I think a Morse/Cuddyer type is far more likely in FA if they strike out in the trade market, but I could also see them making a run for 1 big name that we do not in any way expect (like Hanley), especially if that player's market drags out the way Cano's did last year.
My predictions:
The payroll goes over 100M and Gee ends up being the centerpiece of a trade along with Montero for either Castro or Gonzalez. Both players fill huge needs, have fair contracts, upside, and have been actively shopped by teams looking for pitching (with the Mets rumored). Gee going the other way saves a little $krilla, and Sandy gives up some depth to preserve the high upside young arms. Giving up 2 pitchers who will likely slot into major league rotations next season is tough to swallow, but it's necessary to get an all star level hitter in his prime.
But the people who own and run this team choose to do business their way at the end of the day and no matter how much we riot and scream about how they need to spend more money, it doesn't appear that is at all imminent.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
I think there's some truth in this but I think it comes through slightly differently. For example I believe the rumor that Sandy didn't want to go 4 years for Granderson, but Jeff Wilpon told him to do it because he wanted some positive press, and certainly didn't want months of negative press waiting while the players on the market who took 1 year deals got desperate. Practically speaking I don't think the PR changes how much they will actually spend in a given season, I think that's mostly determined by Sandy having a budget and trying to time his moves precisely within those constraints.
Deej.. this isn't a new thing or something fans have been silent about, though. People have been screaming about the Wilpons and the payroll and the ponzi scheme and ALL of that for years now. Payroll has only gone down. All of the talk about "flexibility" and "money to spend" has rung hollow thus far.
Like I've said all along. If there's money to spend, great. But color me skeptical until it's actually spent.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
I agree 100%. The Coupons signed Granderson for PR. Had they not signed anybody and went into the season with a $55 million dollar payroll the media pressure to sell the team would be gigantic.
Wheeler, Harvey, deGrom, Montero, Thor, Familia, Mejia black, Matz
Gee, Niese... the pitching is on the brink. The offense needs external help.
TDA continuing to improve, Wright not being 2014 version of Wright
They have plentiful legitimate young starting pitching, and some interesting young bullpen arms doing work.
And they still have Matt Harvey, who at his best is capable of being a top-5 starting pitcher.
That's the objective truth.
Sandy Alderson: "Significant" rather than "incremental" improvement would have required dealing young pitching.
and this:
Alderson said he wouldnt deal young pitching
They closed the first half with an 8-2 homestand, then finished a tough trip out of the break at 5-5 and just took the first series of this current homestand with a series win against the Phillies.
They are playing entertaining, solid baseball right now and Wheeler and deGrom starts are pretty dang fun. Also, Duda and d'Arnaud have come alive with the bat.
I'm enjoying watching this Mets team more than I have since 2008, and even more than that given that the future seems very bright to me.
If I was Sandy and under his budget, I'd fill one of those spots by trading 1 of Montero/Gee/Niese (as the centerpiece of a package), and who I trade for would be determined by the value on the trade market. The other spot I'd fill via FA based on the remaining budget and level of player they get in the trade. If I get CarGo in a deal with 1 of those guys as the centerpiece, I'm ok spending less at SS. Hopefully replenish some of the spare parts that need to get included in the deal with whatever Colon can bring back.
That said, if they were operating like a true NY franchise as they should be, the move would be to sign Hanley Ramirez or Mike Morse, or both.
As for acquiring a player?? The big bats didn't get moved and will likely get moved in the offseason. Do we really need a Ludwick right now?? Sandy clearly is in on Cargo and others. We'll get somebody in the offseason.
If we acquired a Cargo or Kemp I'd be fine going Flores/Reynolds/Tovar next year.
If we can't get the really big bat something like Cuddyer and Lowrie would be fine too.
We will have an elite rotation next year, and elite bullpen next year, and a middle of the lineup with Murphy, Wright, Granderson, Duda, Acquisition, and TDA is MORE than enough in the NL.
Why? just to keep the guys loose with clubhouse antics? He's not a good baseball player anymore. And he can't play D at all really. Isn't he a 1B/DH primarily?
Eh. See this I don't agree with. There's only so many bullets in a lot of these pitchers arms. On top of that they are going to be worth a fortune in a few years, could end up injured, ect. Having a rotation with Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Syndergaard, ect young, healthy, and making peanuts could blow up in any moment for a number of reasons. Likewise, Granderson, Wright, ect aren't getting younger. Next year I want the roster to look polished heading in. We are only a player or two away. Time to make a run.
Unless he's free and a bench player, maybe a bat off the bench for our playoff run. He's got a lot of veteran leadership and when that's your best quality it's not saying much.
Let's not forget Niese and Gee have some miles and injury history. TJ surgery isn't the death knell for a pitcher it once was by a long shot but until Harvey proves he IS Harvey that is still a wait and see situation.
I'm not saying the roster will be the same next season but let's just say I expect to see a lot of familiar faces.
Horrible player bad fit crappy defense and so on.
The only thing that counts is if he's better than the guy they have.
Tampa apparently likes Nick Franklin and maybe a new environment will lead to him finally displaying his offense at the big league level.
The 18-year-old kid they got is a hell of a talent. They can be patient so why not.
That's really not true. What counts is if getting a player is prudent given organizational depth, immediate and medium/longerm needs, and payroll.
To arbitration with Murphy, duda, Parnell, Gee, eyj etc. add swisher and the 2015 mets are the 2014 mets plus swisher and Harvey and no other money to spend
There is no way Sandy is at least not going to try to get Cargo and others though first though. He's clearly interested and has all but admitted it and every insider in the industry has said he has had dialogue already. He'll only get him on his terms though. Something like Matz and Nimmo should be enough. He's not trading Thor.
Plus we are still likely to add prospects or useful pieces from Colon, Murphy, possibly Neise or Gee.
2 year's $24 million? This team can't scrap two nickels together. No thanks.
Do? Please show me where I said or implied this. I said I believe that's what he gets and believe he wi be a met in part because of
Need and part because he's close with Wrigjt
Just saying it's not exactly exciting sign a 36 year old who will most likely have far lesser numbers than he did a year ago.
I'm so tired of these types of signings.
Plus, it's not out of the question that Tejada remains the SS next year. Gross.
This has Tommy John written all over it.
Out of the three you listed, I'd go after CarGo. I don't want to gut the system for Tulo (and he's a risky sign) and I don't want to go anywhere near Kemp.
I wouldn't touch Kemp either unless the Dodgers are chipping in a good amount of money and in that case we are giving up big chips.
I'd be ok with adding a Dickerson/Calhoun but I honestly think the team will be ready to make a run next year. Granderson, Wright, Murphy, and even Duda will all be vets by this time next year. Adding a professional hitter like Cargo just seems smart at this current time.
The Mets can really go in a few different directions and Ill be happy. They really can't fuck it up. Too much good coming.
We're high revenue. Mets fans shouldnt even pretend that there isnt money available for major UFA signings. Fuck Sandy and the Coupons. Dont speak their language or mindset that it is okay for us to get outspent by 20 teams on a semi-permanent basis (I dont object to a targeted rebuild).
1. The Mets SHOULD be able to spend 120-130 million per year at MINIMUM (really more but at minimum)
2. They have made clear that isn't happening any time soon. So yeah, off-season dream scenarios where they add Hanley, Tomas, trade for CarGo etc sound great, it's fantasy for now. I agree, some have been brainwashed to "agree" with the low payroll stuff. "I don't want to overpay!" but it is what it is.
So yes, I can discuss which ~$10 million player may look good this offseason. But I wont pretend for a second that the Mets shouldnt be in on the best UFAs.
Matz/Plawecki and lower level sp prospect for cargo
thor + for russell
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
looing at Harper lately its like he is trying to get traded with all his base running mistakes and lazy chasing after hits
Quote:
Cuddyer doesn't do it for me. Give me a guy with 30 HR power.
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
What I want is right to get back to at least 20 homers per year then add another 20 to 25 homer guy and were set
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
Alcantara for KP? I could add. Schwarber strictly OF? Im also selling on Montero -- I like him, but as of now he's our 5th most projectable AAA/MLB young RHP (Harvey, Wheeler, Thor, deGrom).
Quote:
Cuddyer doesn't do it for me. Give me a guy with 30 HR power.
Don't we all? Do these guys grown on trees? How many of those are around? Not giving you shit or anything but there is an increasingly limited amount of these players left around MLB.
I'm well aware. You have to trade for one. Cuddyer as the "answer" in LF just is very "meh" to me. That's a guy who I believe will be thoroughly average away from Coors at this point in his career. He's 35 years old. That doesn't seem like much of a solution to me.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
He was asked: What about $20 (million), $20 (million) and $15 (million)?
Alderson, always ready with a quip about Mets finances, answered: 20, 20, 15 and what, 22 dwarfs?
Quote:
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
That's my entire point. It was about money. Neither Ike Davis or Lucas Duda at that point in time should have ever prevented us from pursuing Abreu. We lucked out a bit because of Duda's breaking out.. but if Duda was going to be this player, I would have dealt with him being a butcher in LF next to Lagares.
team finishing strong and getting more people to come out to ballpark could help. That's probably why colon wasn't moved. I don't consider 54 mil over 3 years to be huge money, tulo's contract is huge money though
How greedy do we have to be before we are happy? Our rotation next year will be bananas. Our bullpen next year will be bananas. Look at the lineups around the NL? We are going to be good next year. All Sandy talks about is how he is looking to upgrade the team if not now then the offseason. Unless disaster and injuries derails us we are going to be playing with the big boys next year.
Quote:
In comment 11789294 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jose Abreu wasn't worth the money? Dude cost nothing BUT money and he's been a fucking monster.
Duda's emergence has turned 1B into an upgradeable spot to no hole at all but there's no way the Mets brass totally saw that coming. Not even being in on Abreu at all told me that they absolutely had money issues,
sandy gets a pass on him since we did have ike and duda and he knew we had limited ability to add money best to spend it on awful OF from last year
That's my entire point. It was about money. Neither Ike Davis or Lucas Duda at that point in time should have ever prevented us from pursuing Abreu. We lucked out a bit because of Duda's breaking out.. but if Duda was going to be this player, I would have dealt with him being a butcher in LF next to Lagares.
I think it was all mental with Duda and he wouldn't have hit like this if he was still playing OF
In the next year or two.
beyond that those guys are too old. Cuddyer is already 35 and Granderson is 33. Has a team been successful with a 38 and 35 year old starting corner OFer?
If Cuddyer is a two year (one - plus really) bridge to Conforto I'm ok with that.
More than trading a ton of prospects for a huge contract.
How greedy do we have to be before we are happy? Our rotation next year will be bananas. Our bullpen next year will be bananas. Look at the lineups around the NL? We are going to be good next year. All Sandy talks about is how he is looking to upgrade the team if not now then the offseason. Unless disaster and injuries derails us we are going to be playing with the big boys next year.
as long as Harvey comes back close to what he was I think your right
7 years/$80M (2011-17)
7 years/$80M (2011-17)
signed extension with Colorado 1//11/11
$3M signing bonus
11:$1M, 12:$5M, 13:$7.5M, 14:$10.5M, 15:$16M, 16:$17M, 17:$20M
award bonuses: $25,000 each for Gold
Glove, All-Star selection. $50,000 for Silver Slugger. $75,000 for LCS
MVP. $0.1M each for MVP, WS MVP
$1M assignment bonus if traded
Link - ( New Window )
Close. But not there. We aren't winning shit with this lineup. It has to be a little better.
its savannah no lefty hits for power there
I knew that was your point "Huge contract " is up for debate.
Cargo makes 15 million a year. We can add him in our sleep.
Black, Torres, Edgin, Leatherich, and possibly Parnell being added back is all extra GRAVY.
I have a prediction that Niese is moved next year and Matz comes up as the new Lefty.
With Smith, this is just one of those things that Im going to just trust the experts for now. They all believe his bat is quick enough and he will generate power eventually. He's very small for a 1st baseman at 6' which gives me pause but Wright is about that hight and we've seen him hit 30 home runs. Its certainly possible. He's so young. Let's just wait and see what happens. Might not need him any more with THE DUDE taking over the Big Apple.
I have a prediction that Niese is moved next year and Matz comes up as the new Lefty.
Yeah, I tend to be optimistic, but I really don't think Im that far off. I find it much more enjoyable to watch my sports looking for the good then the bad all the time. I get called a unicorn and rainbow thinker but Ive never really been wrong. I predicted 2014 we would be back to competing but Harvey's injury pushed that back a year. I thought we'd be in the 77-82 win range this year after Harvey went down. People make fun of me but I have no problem absorbing it. Only way I know how to be. Its a game and its supposed to be fun.
He was asked: What about $20 (million), $20 (million) and $15 (million)?
Alderson, always ready with a quip about Mets finances, answered: 20, 20, 15 and what, 22 dwarfs?
This quote is complete bullshit. He was 100 % joking and those that actually followed the Rubin piece days ago know that he flat out said he'd rather add one big player then a bunch of smaller ones. He even said he would add the right player at the right time and thats what its all about. He in no way shape or form implied we can't add another big player. He was messing with the reporters.
One would hope that savings this year, plus the money they saved on Ike can get re-invested next year. Colon & CY will only be around for these next 2 months (if that).
All that said, I don't know that there's a 20M player out there that's even worth acquiring when you factor in trade cost. Tulo will cost way too much in terms of prospects. Maybe Hanley if he makes it to FA? If Kemp gets dealt the Dodgers are probably kicking in enough $ to bring him into the 15M range.
Out of all the names out there Carlos Gonzalez makes the most sense. I'd want to hang on to Wheeler/Matz/Thor/DeGrom at all costs. Just about anyone else would be on the table.
I'm not sure he'd cost THAT much more than that. And if he does, I'd probably pass. Plawecki is considered our 2nd best prospect right now. Montero is just outside the top 5 at 6.
Im sold on d'Arnaud enough to move Plawecki. The injury stuff is a concern but i dont think it would be good use of our assets to keep both, u just have to kinda roll the dice that d'arnaud can stay healthy. Perhaps a vet upgrade as the backup C would be a smart move though.
6.2 innings, 3H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 6K's
Herrera 2 for 5, up to .344 (might be best story of the summer for Mets minors, though there are many)
TJ Rivera 3 for 5, he's at a whopping .349, though he's 25
non-prospect? major league potential?
HH's favorite Matthew Bowman 7 I, 6 H, 1ER, 1 BB, 6 K's
Conforto first bad day I recall, 0 for 5, down to .367
Out in the field, right now I think I can safely say that six of the eight starting positions are going to be filled by players who are Major League average or better.
That's a pretty good base to start from. I don't think the Mets have been this solid in a long time. Plug the hole in LF with an MLB average player or better and I think the team should be in the playoff mix.
That's the exact opening offer I'd start with, and then probably be willing to add a Flores, Leathersich, or Reynolds to get it done.
If I was Colorado I'd be all over Flores - could put up really big numbers there at 2B.
It would've made sense to at least give him Wednesday's game off (day game after a night game and an off day to follow).
I think a Montero/Gee and Plawecki would definitely get CarGo, based on the above. I'd prefer to hold onto Plawecki if we are getting CarGo though. Plawecki and Thor will be the two "must include" in any Tulo/Stanton type of trade talks
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is giving him problems. He should shut it down, get it fixed, put Flores on third
It would've made sense to at least give him Wednesday's game off (day game after a night game and an off day to follow).
That would involve Collins thinking. Which is why it didn't happen. Anything obvious never seems to get done.
Flores: I think we have to get him at bats down the stretch. He trade value is depressed, and I dont want to try him out next year when things matter, instead of now.
Montero: A guy I'd trade since we have so many RHPs in front of him. But I suspect his trade value isnt commensurate with his minor league success. Doesnt throw super hard, and was a late bloomer. Not the type of pitcher another GM will lust for.
As for targets, I'd be much happier committing to a long term solution at SS this offseason than LF. Still think Conforto/Nimmo can competently handle LF by 2016 at least in a platoon with a vet. Though ideally Nimmo stays in center.
Is he a guy they are looking for 2nd half of 2015? 2016? I know it obviously depends on trades and injuries, but current projection?
assuming they trade Colon next year, the rotation is still stacked. I don't see room for him. And is he BEHIND or AHEAD of Montero? Being a lefty, it seems like a different category.
maybe they can start him in the pen in the MLB level? not for good, just until they have a spot for him. that gives them a nasty lefty coming out of the pen.
just thinking out loud here.
A 3-4-5-6 of Wright, Grandy, (power bat LF), Duda is pretty good.
Not to beat a dead horse, but too bad they never had a SS in the farm system who can bat leadoff.
Oh, wait...
For all the talk about needing a power bat, I completely agree a little speed wouldn't hurt this team. A great leadoff hitter would be a very welcome addition.
A 3-4-5-6 of Wright, Grandy, (power bat LF), Duda is pretty good.
Not to beat a dead horse, but too bad they never had a SS in the farm system who can bat leadoff.
Oh, wait...
See I'd agree with you if Duda didn't just come out of thin air. No doubt we need an upgrade in LF, but how is Cuddyer, a guy who has OPSed over .800 6 times not an upgrade? You guys want Murphy, Wright, Duda, Superstar hall of famer, Granderson, TDA or your not happy??? That gives us the best lineup in the NL on top of the one of the top rotations on top of one of the top bullpens.
Just give me better than a 36 year old Michael Cuddyer leaving Colorado.
Our worst position has been Catcher, where we are 29th overall getting -1.8 WAR. Overall, our miserable outfield with the ancient Grandy, no hit Lagares, and LF blackhole of death is the 10th most productive in basevall (1.6 WAR), better than LAD, NYY, SF, DET, WASH, and STL.
No team is better than average everywhere. Oakland is bottom 3rd in 2B and SS. LAD is substandard at RP, C, LF, and CF, while LAA is behind at SP, RP, 3B, and DH.
Link - ( New Window )
Trade Colon, down to $120mm. Recoup a B or C prospect
Trade grandy for a younger (aka less expensive LF, preferably leadoff type). Save another $15mm. Down to $105mm. Our magic number we have all been targeting.
Lineup: Leadoff LF, Murphy, Tulo, Stanton, Wright, Duda, TdA, Legares.
Rotation: Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, Gee, DeGrom
Pen: Mejia, Familia, Parnell, Black, Edgin, Torres, , Germen
He's better than what they have, and better than most UFA options.
Then you can use chips to trade for a SS. It's easier to fill an OF hole with free agency than a legit SS.
Murphy
Tulo
Wright
Duda
Morse
d'arnaud
Lagares
that's a lineup that will win with this pitching. that's a playoff team.
I think a Montero/Gee and Plawecki would definitely get CarGo, based on the above. I'd prefer to hold onto Plawecki if we are getting CarGo though. Plawecki and Thor will be the two "must include" in any Tulo/Stanton type of trade talks
Remember that Tampa really liked Nick Franklin, so it's not that easy to compare what they got to what the Mets have.
Tampa could have requested Duda (we know they tried to get him in the past) and Wheeler.
A Montero/Gee & Plawecki does not get Gonzalez, MAYBE where the Mets were to eat the majority of his remaining $$$, but still. If I'm Colorado, my starting asking price for Gonzo is Wheeler, d'Arnaud and Matz/Nimmo.
to drastically improve two positions, 1 via trade 1 via free agency, would be ideal.
I don't think signing a SS free agency would improve the team as much as trading for one.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Dont get me wrong love the player but why change the path we have been successfull with so far.
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Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Instant contenders?? Lol. It would make us the best team of all time.
a) he's worth more
b) he's younger
we need to get out of this bargain team mentality. if player A helps the team more than player B, sign player A.
As of now they are 7 games out of first place with :
-no Harvey
-a bullpen that start with Farnsworth and Valverde who cost us several games
-TDA trying struggling most of the first half of the season
-Ike/Dude mess which now has been resolved
-a down year from Wright
-a manager who costs us games!
Obviously injuries could happen next year, or Duda and TDA could regress but the team has vastly improved since April.
Meh. Hanley may make only marginally more than Colon + C Young. Everyone assumes he resigns with the Dodgers, but of course everyone assumed Cano would resign. We'll see what the Dodgers finances really are this offseason. Forbes says that the Dodgers lost $80 million last season. No idea what the projections are for this year or whether LA is hurt at all by the failure of TWC to sell the Dodgers rights to other providers (only 30% of homes in market are getting games right now). And remember -- that team was bought on a ton of borrowed money.
Amen. We are a high revenue team. Dont let the Wilpons pretend otherwise. Frankly I think the reporters should be harassing the Sandy et al on this point every day. Though I will say that the Post doesnt pretend for a second that significant signings are out of reach.
Would I like to add Hanley? Absofuckinglutely. Sign Hanley, then a Cuddyer makes perfect sense as a bridge to Conforto/Nimmo and let's roll. But I just don't see it happening. I really don't.
And no matter how many times any of us say the Mets' spending is BS and that they can afford to, it's not going to change the way they operate. This should be a 130M payroll ballclub. There are no excuses. But I'd be stunned to see it jump much higher than 100 any time soon.
you are looking at huge pay increases for a lot of these players in the next 5 years.
what is the argument against Morse?
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In comment 11789842 ZGiants98 said:
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Target as well and I think it's realistic. Shecky you're dreaming bro. Stanton and Tulo?? Come on man.
I'm getting the feeling that prospects are now getting overvalued, hence the trading deadline with a lot of major leaguers being moved. However this dream trade scenario would make the mets instant contenders.
Instant contenders?? Lol. It would make us the best team of all time.
The problem with this scenario, other the farm being shot, is that our depth would be an issue if injuries were to hit.
I know it won't happen. And it's a "dream". But is it not doable to trade five prospects from our top ten and safely say we could land anyone outside of Trout? And that's a huge overpay!! Do it twice and clear our top ten, fine by me.
Funny thing is, I created a dream scenario that is
A) realistic
B) fits exactl within the teams current financial constraints
Dont get me wrong love the player but why change the path we have been successfull with so far.
Tulo and Cargo are both injury prone. Starting as a rookie going through last season, Cargo has played 85, 89, 145, 127, 135 and 110 games a season.
You're getting a very middle/older class of FAs with that attitude at best. It's probably what the assholes who own the team will do though.
What would the Yankees do this offseason? First, they'd chase the top two FAs -- Scherzer and HanRam. Biggest organizational hole is SS, and HanRam fills it. Scherzer and Harvey are the co-aces of the 2015 staff. One of Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor is traded for a big OF bat or a similarly valuable AAA OF prospect. Or a 3rd current ace pitcher. And they'd be in on whatever comes out of Cuba/Japan this winter.
Mets wont do it. But lets not pretend like it isnt an option on the table. In fact, given the amount of ticket revenue they're leaving on the table, the upside from 65% ownership of SNY, and the good chance that the other NY will suck, its not at all clear that this would be a net drag on revenues. Playing around with Bloomberg's data on sources of team revenue for 2013 and recognizing that attendance is AT LEAST 50% below what it would be if we were competitive, there is probably an easy $50+ million in extra revenue available from goosing attendance from the 2.1 million (2013) to 3.1 million. And of course ticket prices would go up and SNY would churn out even more money. And no one has bought Mets gear in years, so there is a lot of pent up demand for new merchandise...
http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html - ( New Window )
What would the Yankees do this offseason? First, they'd chase the top two FAs -- Scherzer and HanRam. Biggest organizational hole is SS, and HanRam fills it. Scherzer and Harvey are the co-aces of the 2015 staff. One of Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor is traded for a big OF bat or a similarly valuable AAA OF prospect. Or a 3rd current ace pitcher. And they'd be in on whatever comes out of Cuba/Japan this winter.
Mets wont do it. But lets not pretend like it isnt an option on the table. In fact, given the amount of ticket revenue they're leaving on the table, the upside from 65% ownership of SNY, and the good chance that the other NY will suck, its not at all clear that this would be a net drag on revenues. Playing around with Bloomberg's data on sources of team revenue for 2013 and recognizing that attendance is AT LEAST 50% below what it would be if we were competitive, there is probably an easy $50+ million in extra revenue available from goosing attendance from the 2.1 million (2013) to 3.1 million. And of course ticket prices would go up and SNY would churn out even more money. And no one has bought Mets gear in years, so there is a lot of pent up demand for new merchandise... http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html - ( New Window )
Great post. I completely agree.
I'll just add the suggestion that you follow the approach that I take. Ignore the Wilpon/payroll stuff during the season and follow the team and prospects instead. There's plenty of time to get furious about this in the offseason. Right now, there's a lot of interesting things going on with the team. Try to focus on that and let's discuss the Wilpons in the offseason.
Us talking about the Mets spending more money isn't ever going to force them to or change the way they operate.
Sure, maybe the revenue is there to expand payroll and maybe it's more feasible than we think. But the people who own and run this team choose to do business their way at the end of the day and no matter how much we riot and scream about how they need to spend more money, it doesn't appear that is at all imminent.
So, really. We just have to hope that within the constraints they've created, they're able to field a competitive team by having young kids give us major production on cheap rookie deals and allow us to maximize value in enough spots to negate some of the payroll deficiency elsewhere.
I think with the correct moves, the Mets actually can compete with a payroll around like 100M there's really no way around the fact that it makes it more difficult to do so.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
2. While I do not expect the Mets to spend to the level of point #1, I do think it will be more than we fans expect. I think CarGo is 100% a top option and Starlin Castro may be up there as well. I think a Morse/Cuddyer type is far more likely in FA if they strike out in the trade market, but I could also see them making a run for 1 big name that we do not in any way expect (like Hanley), especially if that player's market drags out the way Cano's did last year.
My predictions:
The payroll goes over 100M and Gee ends up being the centerpiece of a trade along with Montero for either Castro or Gonzalez. Both players fill huge needs, have fair contracts, upside, and have been actively shopped by teams looking for pitching (with the Mets rumored). Gee going the other way saves a little $krilla, and Sandy gives up some depth to preserve the high upside young arms. Giving up 2 pitchers who will likely slot into major league rotations next season is tough to swallow, but it's necessary to get an all star level hitter in his prime.
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But the people who own and run this team choose to do business their way at the end of the day and no matter how much we riot and scream about how they need to spend more money, it doesn't appear that is at all imminent.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
I think there's some truth in this but I think it comes through slightly differently. For example I believe the rumor that Sandy didn't want to go 4 years for Granderson, but Jeff Wilpon told him to do it because he wanted some positive press, and certainly didn't want months of negative press waiting while the players on the market who took 1 year deals got desperate. Practically speaking I don't think the PR changes how much they will actually spend in a given season, I think that's mostly determined by Sandy having a budget and trying to time his moves precisely within those constraints.
Like I've said all along. If there's money to spend, great. But color me skeptical until it's actually spent.
I disagree. I seriously doubt that the Wilpons were sitting around thinking "the team really needs to plunk down $30-35 million 2014 dollars on Grandy, Young, and Colon". Rather, I think they were essentially shamed into it. They had to spend upto approx last year's payroll or there could be further fan revolt -- $100 million in tickets/concessions could easily turn to $75-80 etc, especially after so many years for promises. 2014 was held out for a while as some future Shangrila. They really dont give two shits about winning right now. They care about holding onto the team until they can reduce the debt load from crushing/ownership-threatening to manageable.
I think if everyone -- fans, WFAN, the Post etc. -- shut up about the dismal payroll compared to revenue and potential revenue, the Wilpons would ABSOLUTELY spend less. They could easily dump Colon this offseason, let Young walk, resign our RFAs, and call it an offseason. That's a .500 team anyway. They spend because of the chatter.
I agree 100%. The Coupons signed Granderson for PR. Had they not signed anybody and went into the season with a $55 million dollar payroll the media pressure to sell the team would be gigantic.