NFT: BREAKING: Unconditional, 72-Hour Cease Fire to Begin in Gaza

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If anything about this situation can be categorized as "good."

Not at all convinced this is "good news" for Israel up close. We are by local accounts not close to the goal of destroying all or at least most of Hamas's underground bunkers and tunnels and any break allows Hamas to evacuate the tunnels from their side and fix all the Gazan entrances to the tunnels with lethal booby traps.

In comment 11789052 BlueLou said:

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We are by local accounts not close to the goal of destroying all or at least most of Hamas's underground bunkers and tunnels and any break allows Hamas to evacuate the tunnels from their side and fix all the Gazan entrances to the tunnels with lethal booby traps.

I read today, that Israel is claiming to have destroyed 80% of tunnels, and will have all (that they're aware of) in a few days.
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Israel needs to continue to pound away until they are ready to let up.

Maybe Israel will wake up for a change. Their actions recently have been asinine, to quote Joe Scarborough.

For self-preservation.

In comment 11789074 G2 said:

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Israel needs to continue to pound away until they are ready to let up.

Ceasefire now really only does prolong the 60year war

Wondering how accurate that 80% figure is.

Also wondering how Hamas agreed with a "cease fire" that would allow Israel to continue to destroy their underground network.

who are lobbing missiles at your citizens for decades on end?
I suppose if you lived in Texas and the Mexicans were launching missiles into your city that you'd want the US government to just ignore it?

It says the destroyed 80% of the tunnels they know about. Who knows how many more there are

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In comment 11789080 SanFranGiantsFan said:

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Maybe Israel will wake up for a change. Their actions recently have been asinine, to quote Joe Scarborough.

The problem with Scarborough's commentary is that he, like people all over the world, are relying on death figures that that are being provided by Hamas, effectively.

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Consider the media obsession with the body count. According to a daily tally in the New York Times, NYT -1.73% as of July 27 the war in Gaza had claimed 1,023 Palestinian lives as against 46 Israelis. How does the Times keep such an accurate count of Palestinian deaths? A footnote discloses "Palestinian death tallies are provided by the Palestinian Health Ministry and the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs." OK. So who runs the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza? Hamas does. As for the U.N., it gets its data mainly from two Palestinian agitprop NGOs, one of which, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, offers the remarkably precise statistic that, as of July 27, exactly 82% of deaths in Gaza have been civilians. Curiously, during the 2008-09 Gaza war, the center also reported an 82% civilian casualty rate.

Source

This site also has a really good breakdown of the demographics of Palestinians who died per the information released by Al Jazeera and it shows that Israel is targeting Hamas combatants. It is as of July 23
http://www.israellycool.com/2014/07/23/new-analysis-of-gazan-casualties-in-operation-protective-edge-as-of-july-23rd/ - ( New Window )

In comment 11789052 BlueLou said:

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Not at all convinced this is "good news" for Israel up close. We are by local accounts not close to the goal of destroying all or at least most of Hamas's underground bunkers and tunnels and any break allows Hamas to evacuate the tunnels from their side and fix all the Gazan entrances to the tunnels with lethal booby traps.

Israel had no choice, their hand was forced.

Last friday, after visiting Egypt, Kerry proposed a ceasefire basically using Hamas's demands as the guideline,along the 1967 borders, which would reduce israel to 8 miles wide at certain stretches.

Israel initially rejected this proposition, and reacted angrily. Yesterday, as Prime minister Netanyahu met with his cabinet to discuss whether or not they would made the push onto the command and manufacturing bunkers, He recieved a call from the U.S. President.

The full transcript is below, translated from Hebrew, courtesy of The Times of Israel:

Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire — silence will be met with silence.

BN: Hamas broke all five previous ceasefires. It’s a terrorist organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

BO: I repeat and expect Israel to stop all its military activities unilaterally. The pictures of destruction in Gaza distance the world from Israel’s position.

BN: Kerry’s proposal was completely unrealistic and gives Hamas military and diplomatic advantages.

BO: Within a week of the end of Israel’s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israel’s commitment to removing the siege restrictions on Gaza.

BN: Qatar and Turkey are the biggest supporters of Hamas. It’s impossible to rely on them to be fair mediators.

BO: I trust Qatar and Turkey. Israel is not in the position that it can choose its mediators.

BN: I protest because Hamas can continue to launch rockets and use tunnels for terror attacks –

BO: (interrupting Netanyahu) The ball’s in Israel’s court, and it must end all its military activities.

This was reported yeaterday. Both Obama and the Israeli govt say This sin't exactly what happened, but the details were leaked By a US white house staffer, so it was clear at least from this morning that the White house wanted the world to think it had applied this pressure to Israel/

Personally, I think it amounts to a strategic defeat for Israel.The US position seems to now be that Israel should return to it's 67 borders. This is Huge, and a reversal of a 47 year old US policy.We have never before held the psotion we do now on Israeli occupation. Israel is pulling it's hair out and by and large is feeling betrayed, even the Israeli left which typically supports Hamas.

My own analysis is that Israel waited too long,( it also had a ceasefire last week)It dawdled over whether or not to call up and mobilize the reserves necessary to complete the operation, and the opportunity is lost.Implicit in the US demands were also that The blockade be lifted, and US 50 million dollars of aid is immediately designated for Hamas.They will be able to resupply and rebuild, as the US wants the naval blockade lifted as well. Israel will not have a chance again to strike at Hamas until this administration leaves power, at the earliest, and that's assuming Clinton doesn't Follow on into the white house next.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/29/operation-%E2%80%98protective-edge%E2%80%99-day-22-in-leaked-transcript-of-call-with-netanyahu-obama-demands-unilateral-ceasefire-rejects-israeli-objection-to-mediators-qatar-and-turkey-live-updat/

cease fires just gave the VC time to resupply. Why do I suspect that's the case here to?

Hamas has not been able to defeat the "Trophy" anti-missile system deployed on Israeli Merkava tanks. Hamas has been succesful in taking out APCs, but the trophy system, whereby a radar tracks incoming projectiles and then engages close range counter measures to intercept and defeat the incoming missile, has kept them from touching the Israeli MBTs.Hamas appealed to Iran to rush deliver weapons that will be able to Hit the Merkava's even with trophy deployed.Hamas needs time for those weapons to get their before they have any hope of inflicting any real Casualties on Israeli Heavy armor.

In comment 11789325 Blue21 said:

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cease fires just gave the VC time to resupply. Why do I suspect that's the case here to?

The only somewhat positive news (and a gripe of Hamas) is that Israeli forces will indeed remain in the region and will continue to destroy those terror tunnels. But yes, no doubt Hamas will resupply and use this breather to regroup.

And frankly, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Hamas won't abide by the ceasefire and will continue to shoot rockets. It's their M.O.

But there have been plenty of rockets fired at Israeli in the last hour or so.

I'll assume that's just a sign of good faith

In comment 11789434 JayBinQueens said:

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But there have been plenty of rockets fired at Israeli in the last hour or so. I'll assume that's just a sign of good faith

Yeah, I'm sure Hamas is getting all the rockets out of their system in preparation for the ceasefire!

reserves yesterday. I don't think they are going to stop until they get what they want.

Whether that exchange was true or just 'leaked' to make it seem that the US is putting heat on Israel for the sake of our 'allies' Qatar, Turkey and Iran, who knows.

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Hamas kept shelling

And (I pray this isn't true) but there are reports that and IDF soldier was kidnapped (after the cease fire).

Fuck Hamas

Had to shake my head while chuckling at it, especially the child in a suicide vest.

In comment 11789462 ImThatGuy said:

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Hamas kept shelling And (I pray this isn't true) but there are reports that and IDF soldier was kidnapped (after the cease fire). Fuck Hamas

Evidently the IDF has told the UN they fear he was kidnapped. The UN was then to tell Egypt who's trying to broker a ceasefire.

Looks like they had a suicide bomb attack against the soldiers and during the ensuing confusion they kidnapped one
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That's a good one, Ronnie.

Cartoon.

In comment 11789545 Big Al said:

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Cartoon.

And guess whose feed I saw that cartoon on?...;)

That poster got it from the Filmgiant feed.

It's Kerry's fault that Israel and Palestine are fighting..

When your ceasefire proposal is closer to Hamas' terms than Egypt's was, I daresay you suck at being a diplomat.

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I think my first ever impression of John Kerry came from a 1986 PJ O'Rourke article ("Goons, Guns, and Gold") in Rolling Stone on his experiences during the Philippines election in which Marcos was attempting to stuff the ballot box against the far more popular Corazon Aquino. Senators Kerry and Lugar were sent there by Reagan as election observers. But when the election workers walked out over Marcos' chicanery with the vote totals and asked for his assistance, John Kerry was the waste of human skin that we've all come to expect. Here is PJ O'Rourke's recollection of the events: "Village Voice reporter Joe Conason and I had been tipped off about the walkout, and when we got to the church, we found Bea Zobel, one of Cory Aquino's top aides, in a tizzy. "The women are terrified," she said. "They're scared to go home. They don't know what to do. We don't know what to do." Joe and I suggested that Mrs. Zobel go to the Manila Hotel and bring back some members of the Congressional observer team. She came back with Kerry, who did nothing. Kerry later said that he didn't talk to the COMELEC employees then because he wasn't allowed to. [A bone-head Rolling Stone fact-checker sent the article to Kerry's Senate office for comment. Kerry staffers were wroth and insisted the senator's version of events be included.] This is ridiculous. He was ushered into an area that had been cordoned off from the press and the crowd and where the computer operators were sitting. To talk to the women, all he would have had to do was raise his voice. Why he was reluctant, I can't tell you. I can tell you what any red-blooded representative of the U.S. Government should have done. He should have shouted, "If you're frightened for your safety, I'll take you to the American embassy, and damn the man who tries to stop me." But all Kerry did was walk around like a male model in a concerned and thoughtful pose. And there you have probably the only comparison of Kerry to a male model ever made." O'Rourke noted in 2004 that he's "had a nonpartisan grudge against John Kerry for 18 years" over this incident. And ever since I read O'Rourke's account I have as well. John Kerry had a chance to actually do something meaningful as a US Senator and instead he chose to uselessly walk around and preen as the well coiffed empty-suit that he is.

In comment 11789577 montanagiant said:

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It's Kerry's fault that Israel and Palestine are fighting..

No. It's not all Kerry's fault. At the same time, that doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes. I'm linking a David Ignatius (certainly no right wing ideologue) op ed commenting on recent cease fire negotiations.


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My point is proven

the fighting is between Hamas and Israel right now.

You have to wonder, at what point will the Gazans get sick of Hamas? They are ruling Gaza like a dictatorship - running it down to the ground. This is not the Gaza the Israelis handed over any more.

The question is, will this further the disillusionment with Hamas by the Gazans or drive them into their arms. There is speculation that this was started by Hamas BECAUSE of the increasing disillusionment on the part of the ordinary citizens of Gaza. Certainly a complicated situation.

there are reports (who knows how true they are) that Hamas is executing Palestinians who are siding with Israel. If true, they're not really giving them a choice out of fear for their lives. They're screwed if they follow Hamas and are at risk of death if they don't

lives in Qatar. By all accounts, a very wealthy man, with multiple homes (in other people's names, of course).

What you say is true. Also that funds and materials that should have benefitted the people of Gaza got diverted by Hamas.

The real question is why this wasn't more widely reported before the current violence started? As it stands now, the last thing on the minds of the residents of Gaza is where the Hamas leader lives.

(sorry, forgot Larry the Cable Guy and Victoria Jackson) and those cartoons don't do much to suggest otherwise.

A good starting point is to actually attempt some satire instead of rehashing 30 year old Reaganisms that were colossally stupid in first place.

In comment 11789852 Overseer said:

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(sorry, forgot Larry the Cable Guy and Victoria Jackson) and those cartoons don't do much to suggest otherwise. A good starting point is to actually attempt some satire instead of rehashing 30 year old Reaganisms that were colossally stupid in first place.

dude no offense but what the heck are you talking about?

Also that first cartoon is perfectly accurate and satirical.

I am curious to learn about those 30 year old Reagan ism and who previously brought them up here.

speaking of this
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where has Kerry even hinted that there should be some middle ground compromise between Bibi and Hamas?

He, on behalf of his boss, is trying to stop the carnage. Clumsily, no doubt (as is his custom), but not in a manner that's selling out Israel like that shitty cartoon fabricates.

In comment 11789972 Overseer said:

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where has Kerry even hinted that there should be some middle ground compromise between Bibi and Hamas? He, on behalf of his boss, is trying to stop the carnage. Clumsily, no doubt (as is his custom), but not in a manner that's selling out Israel like that shitty cartoon fabricates.

With respect to the first cartoon, and allowing for some hyperbole present in political cartoons of all points of view, please take a look at the Ignatius op ed I linked above.

"the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."

Note the word "exaggeration" as an aspect of satire. Pretty widely used by all sides in satire.

than Egypt's proposal. Take a minute to ponder that.

The point Ignatius makes is, I think, much more important than talking points. Decades of policy toward Israel by the US and by the world has focused on immediate stops to the bloodshed. The images are gutwrenching, and anyone who delights in the suffering of innocents is someone whose opinion is unworthy of consideration. But the impediment to any sort of enduring peace in Gaza (or at least AN impediment, if you're of a different mind than I am on the subject) is the ability of Hamas to remain in power after this. All of that suffering, Israeli and Palestinian, will be for absolutely nothing if the consequence of a long-term cease fire is just that Hamas gets to reload.

Iraq and other conflicts. Why isn't Kerry or the UN concerned about those casualties?

and appreciate that he makes basically the same point as me. Thanks for the link.

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Kerry's approach has ignited a firestorm in Israel, with commentators left and right accusing him of taking Hamas' side and betraying Israel. That criticism is unfair [...] Kerry's mistake isn't any bias against Israel, but a bias in favor of an executable, short-term deal.

And Exaggeration, Big Al, is over-stating something that's true. Here they're just making shit up because they hate the SoS. The cartoon sucks.

With different text, the first one could have been at least passable (the baby is funny). The second one is an irredeemable steaming dog turd.