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| U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry announced Thursday that an unconditional humanitarian cease-fire will begin at 8 a.m. local time in Gaza. It will last for a period of 72 hours unless extended, they said in a joint statement. During this time the forces on the ground will remain in place. |
80 year old father-in-law could kick my ass, no sweat. Biceps like baseballs.
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Has not one ting to do with what we assist Israel with. We are not cutting funding to Israel and moving it there, or having to make a decision of one or the other. Our presence in S. Korea goes much further then just aiding the ROK.
Don't shoot the messenger. Just doing a bit of research for BlueLou. He asked. ;)
BTW: I spend six months of the year in the ROK, teaching. I'm fully aware of why we're there.
My post was not addressing your post, it was for those that brought it up as some kind of argument regarding Israel
montana are you being disingenuous?
No, I'm pointing out that S Korea has zero bearing on Israel. And it's not that I'm bugged about your opinion, I am bugged by the habit of not giving credit where it is due.
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What does it matter what we spend in S. Korea?
montanagiant : 12:59 pm : link : reply
No biggie, but you and Ronnie seem awfully bugged by my criticism of Kerry and lack of "appreciation" for all the money the US spends supporting the Israeli defense budget. So I was curious what actual dollar amount and % of S. Korea's defense budget the US supports, just as a counterpoint to Ronnie's bitch, that you echo.
And really? The US armed "presence in S. Korea goes much further then just aiding the ROK."
But the US support of Israel doesn't "go much farther than aiding the IDF?" Really?
How quickly one forgets that Israel took out Syria's secret nuclear facility, one which ironically was modeled after and built with the help of none other than North Korea...
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On September 6, 2007, in a surprise dawn attack, seven Israeli warplanes destroyed an industrial facility near al-Kibar, Syria, later identified by the CIA as a nearly completed nuclear reactor secretly under construction since 2001.[1]
According to the CIA, the unit was built with North Korean assistance and was modeled on one used by North Korea to produce plutonium for nuclear weapons.
(link below)
Certainly one of the biggest modern threats to US security is that nuclear weapons might end up in the hands of terrorists? Israel’s Airstrike on Syria’s Reactor - ( New Window )
It's one thing to acknowledge there are 2 points of view, it's something else entirely to make a case for either point.You asked me to marry myself to a position contrary to yours, make the case and prove it, which was never my intent, rather simply to point out your view is not universally held, particularly in Israel. Regardless of evidence to the contrary,Illustrated by the above quotes from Netanyahu.
Also, don't make comments about "Talking points" when little or nothing I posted is being pushed by either side.I certainly don't see the convo between Netanyahu and Obama posted in mainstream media, let alone in republican talking points.Your comments imply I belong to one party or the other, or support their cause, or get my info from mainstream media replete with talking points. I would suggest when reading my posts, read what it says, not what you think it implies,as I am generally content, at least when posting source material to put it out there and let facts speak for themselves.I get my info from multiple sources, then form my own opinions.If there is some crossover with what someone else is spewing, please, don't bellittle it by labeling it as talking point, especially when you promote a party line yourself.You are as shrill as anyone else, don't kid yourself.
For the sake of clarity I'll say I don't like the current administration, or it's policies, or how it handles foreign affairs, and that it's made a bungle of things.I also felt the same way about the last administration and their policies.
My initial post was to put up the conversation between the Israeli prime minister, and the Us president ( for the simple reason I DIDN'T see it in anyone talking point or in the mainstream media) that demanded a ceasefire on Hamas's terms, and I still see it as a major policy shift from the position the Us has held regarding Israel for the past 47 years. I'm sorry, but I think that's noteworthy and not particularly common knowledge.I thought, and still do think it's something that merits attention, and something that may take some time to digest. Sorry if I, recently banned messenger, leaves a bad taste in the mouth, thereby obfuscating what I was trying to say.That I don't like this administration is an aside, and was not the point.We can debate the merits of a shift in position by the U
S and for all you know, I may well support it.Don't assume.
Let's try it again. So you didn't state this admin was trying to dissolve the State of Israel???
You might want to read again what you wrote, because that was exactly what you claimed. Now your back crawling and trying to spin it as an opinion after the fact.. Maybe it's better we just deal with the facts and not slanted/ biased dies genius opinions.
Though we're not in BlueLou's boat, we (well, I do) sit on edge once in a while over there.
ROK and DPRK still technically at war and all that.
And unless you can tell me that Israel provides the United States a strategic base for power projection like S. Korea and Japan, I think you're comparing apples to oranges. But don't let the facts distract you from having any sense of objectivity to how our national security interests work.
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Keep telling yourself there is no other "way of looking at it" which is all I said, I didn't say it was a fact, simply pointed out there are other perceptions,which you don't seem to recognize.
It's one thing to acknowledge there are 2 points of view, it's something else entirely to make a case for either point.You asked me to marry myself to a position contrary to yours, make the case and prove it, which was never my intent, rather simply to point out your view is not universally held, particularly in Israel. Regardless of evidence to the contrary,Illustrated by the above quotes from Netanyahu.
Also, don't make comments about "Talking points" when little or nothing I posted is being pushed by either side.I certainly don't see the convo between Netanyahu and Obama posted in mainstream media, let alone in republican talking points.Your comments imply I belong to one party or the other, or support their cause, or get my info from mainstream media replete with talking points. I would suggest when reading my posts, read what it says, not what you think it implies,as I am generally content, at least when posting source material to put it out there and let facts speak for themselves.I get my info from multiple sources, then form my own opinions.If there is some crossover with what someone else is spewing, please, don't bellittle it by labeling it as talking point, especially when you promote a party line yourself.You are as shrill as anyone else, don't kid yourself.
For the sake of clarity I'll say I don't like the current administration, or it's policies, or how it handles foreign affairs, and that it's made a bungle of things.I also felt the same way about the last administration and their policies.
My initial post was to put up the conversation between the Israeli prime minister, and the Us president ( for the simple reason I DIDN'T see it in anyone talking point or in the mainstream media) that demanded a ceasefire on Hamas's terms, and I still see it as a major policy shift from the position the Us has held regarding Israel for the past 47 years. I'm sorry, but I think that's noteworthy and not particularly common knowledge.I thought, and still do think it's something that merits attention, and something that may take some time to digest. Sorry if I, recently banned messenger, leaves a bad taste in the mouth, thereby obfuscating what I was trying to say.That I don't like this administration is an aside, and was not the point.We can debate the merits of a shift in position by the U
S and for all you know, I may well support it.Don't assume.
Let's try it again. So you didn't state this admin was trying to dissolve the State of Israel???
You might want to read again what you wrote, because that was exactly what you claimed. Now your back crawling and trying to spin it as an opinion after the fact.. Maybe it's better we just deal with the facts and not slanted/ biased dies genius opinions.
Thats is correct sir. I did NOT say this administration is trying to dissolve the state of IsraeL.I know what I wrote, and if you go back and read it, I said quite clearly that it was "another way to look at it", the point being that some do, Israelis in particular and they don't appreciate it.Again, I never said I looked at it that way.
What I said was that his actions are viewed by many as possibly leading to it. It's a pretty simple concept, dude, it's not that hard to follow.If you are going to tell me you have a crystal ball and can assure us all that accepting peace on Hamas terms and returning to the 67 borders could never result in the destruction of Israel, particularly by an organization that still calls for it's destruction in it's founding charter, then your just batshit nuts.
All I'm saying is some people looking at the situation aren't nearly as overwhelmed with some sort of sense of gratitude that you feel Israel owes the U.S. (your espoused view) as much as they feel dread and resentment and abandonment at the realization that the US president tried to DICTATE terms, flat out,to Netanyahu, along lines that favored Hamas and reversed 47 years of US policy.
If you continue to play dumb like you don't understand the distinction between the 2 points of view, and that the second is widely held would indicate to me. You are, as another poster said, disingenuous.
Some nice garlic Hamas with pita bread.. Mmmmmm..
I don't know. I'm not speaking for montana here, but there is a huge gulf between Israelis owing the U.S. "some sort of gratitude" and Israelis (and those associated with Israel) bitching about the U.S. not doing enough (or fucking up) for them. I don't think montana is saying that Israel should show gratitude as much as Israel shouldn't be bitching about the help they are getting because they don't think it's enough or not the right kind. The U.S. still has to navigate through the complex geopolitical world that goes beyond the borders of Israel. And while extremely important to the regional security, the situation in Israel is just one of many that the U.S. has to tread cautiously around.
Some nice garlic Hamas with pita bread.. Mmmmmm..
What a dip
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All I'm saying is some people looking at the situation aren't nearly as overwhelmed with some sort of sense of gratitude that you feel Israel owes the U.S. (your espoused view) as much as they feel dread and resentment and abandonment at the realization that the US president tried to DICTATE terms, flat out,to Netanyahu, along lines that favored Hamas and reversed 47 years of US policy.
I don't know. I'm not speaking for montana here, but there is a huge gulf between Israelis owing the U.S. "some sort of gratitude" and Israelis (and those associated with Israel) bitching about the U.S. not doing enough (or fucking up) for them. I don't think montana is saying that Israel should show gratitude as much as Israel shouldn't be bitching about the help they are getting because they don't think it's enough or not the right kind. The U.S. still has to navigate through the complex geopolitical world that goes beyond the borders of Israel. And while extremely important to the regional security, the situation in Israel is just one of many that the U.S. has to tread cautiously around.
What I'm saying is we need to think about what we, the US are doing, we need ti understand our ally Israel, for all it's warts, has it's own perspective, and it's own considerations, and right now they feel threatened, rightfully so, and if we offset the benefits of any aid we send then by forcing them to accept terms that compromise their integrity, including their territorial integrity ( because that's exactly what the terms of Kerry's proposal did) then many will view it as we aren't really doing them any favors, And I have to say at this point I'm inclined to agree.Which is why they are asking us to just leave them the fuck alone, but please keep sending the bullets.
Though we're not in BlueLou's boat, we (well, I do) sit on edge once in a while over there.
ROK and DPRK still technically at war and all that.
Yeah through my wife i have some ties there. My Father-in-law ran military security there during the 80's. Wife and her 2 sisters taught English there for 3 years.
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In comment 11790901 Great White Ghost said:
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Keep telling yourself there is no other "way of looking at it" which is all I said, I didn't say it was a fact, simply pointed out there are other perceptions,which you don't seem to recognize.
It's one thing to acknowledge there are 2 points of view, it's something else entirely to make a case for either point.You asked me to marry myself to a position contrary to yours, make the case and prove it, which was never my intent, rather simply to point out your view is not universally held, particularly in Israel. Regardless of evidence to the contrary,Illustrated by the above quotes from Netanyahu.
Also, don't make comments about "Talking points" when little or nothing I posted is being pushed by either side.I certainly don't see the convo between Netanyahu and Obama posted in mainstream media, let alone in republican talking points.Your comments imply I belong to one party or the other, or support their cause, or get my info from mainstream media replete with talking points. I would suggest when reading my posts, read what it says, not what you think it implies,as I am generally content, at least when posting source material to put it out there and let facts speak for themselves.I get my info from multiple sources, then form my own opinions.If there is some crossover with what someone else is spewing, please, don't bellittle it by labeling it as talking point, especially when you promote a party line yourself.You are as shrill as anyone else, don't kid yourself.
For the sake of clarity I'll say I don't like the current administration, or it's policies, or how it handles foreign affairs, and that it's made a bungle of things.I also felt the same way about the last administration and their policies.
My initial post was to put up the conversation between the Israeli prime minister, and the Us president ( for the simple reason I DIDN'T see it in anyone talking point or in the mainstream media) that demanded a ceasefire on Hamas's terms, and I still see it as a major policy shift from the position the Us has held regarding Israel for the past 47 years. I'm sorry, but I think that's noteworthy and not particularly common knowledge.I thought, and still do think it's something that merits attention, and something that may take some time to digest. Sorry if I, recently banned messenger, leaves a bad taste in the mouth, thereby obfuscating what I was trying to say.That I don't like this administration is an aside, and was not the point.We can debate the merits of a shift in position by the U
S and for all you know, I may well support it.Don't assume.
Let's try it again. So you didn't state this admin was trying to dissolve the State of Israel???
You might want to read again what you wrote, because that was exactly what you claimed. Now your back crawling and trying to spin it as an opinion after the fact.. Maybe it's better we just deal with the facts and not slanted/ biased dies genius opinions.
Thats is correct sir. I did NOT say this administration is trying to dissolve the state of IsraeL.I know what I wrote, and if you go back and read it, I said quite clearly that it was "another way to look at it", the point being that some do, Israelis in particular and they don't appreciate it.Again, I never said I looked at it that way.
What I said was that his actions are viewed by many as possibly leading to it. It's a pretty simple concept, dude, it's not that hard to follow.If you are going to tell me you have a crystal ball and can assure us all that accepting peace on Hamas terms and returning to the 67 borders could never result in the destruction of Israel, particularly by an organization that still calls for it's destruction in it's founding charter, then your just batshit nuts.
All I'm saying is some people looking at the situation aren't nearly as overwhelmed with some sort of sense of gratitude that you feel Israel owes the U.S. (your espoused view) as much as they feel dread and resentment and abandonment at the realization that the US president tried to DICTATE terms, flat out,to Netanyahu, along lines that favored Hamas and reversed 47 years of US policy.
If you continue to play dumb like you don't understand the distinction between the 2 points of view, and that the second is widely held would indicate to me. You are, as another poster said, disingenuous.
lol...Ok, this is the third different spin you have put on your claim so i will once again re-frame the question using your newest excuse for what you wrote:
How can you have the perception that this admin's policies are working towards dissolving the Israel State given the fact that they will have shortly put 1 billion into the "Iron Dome" defense system that specifically protects the "Jewish State"?
Look the issue here is that your dislike of the admin is causing you to make ridiculous over-the-top claims that completely ignore actual facts. Your using a delicate situation for your own slanted political arguments, which ironically if it was not for their funding decisions towards Israel, that dissolving of the Israel state you throw around had a much better chance if happening.
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All I'm saying is some people looking at the situation aren't nearly as overwhelmed with some sort of sense of gratitude that you feel Israel owes the U.S. (your espoused view) as much as they feel dread and resentment and abandonment at the realization that the US president tried to DICTATE terms, flat out,to Netanyahu, along lines that favored Hamas and reversed 47 years of US policy.
I don't know. I'm not speaking for montana here, but there is a huge gulf between Israelis owing the U.S. "some sort of gratitude" and Israelis (and those associated with Israel) bitching about the U.S. not doing enough (or fucking up) for them. I don't think montana is saying that Israel should show gratitude as much as Israel shouldn't be bitching about the help they are getting because they don't think it's enough or not the right kind. The U.S. still has to navigate through the complex geopolitical world that goes beyond the borders of Israel. And while extremely important to the regional security, the situation in Israel is just one of many that the U.S. has to tread cautiously around.
BINGO!!!! but they knew that already, it just did not help their argument to say that.