NFT: Hamas has broken the 72 humanutarian hour cease fire

......and

Wipe them out! all of them ( I refer to Hamas not the general Palestinian people).

Once they run out of rockets or the Israel's get to close to finishing hamas

agreeing to the ceasefire seems to have been merely pretextual.

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be fractured? As if they had a group that really agreed to the ceasefire and others that said, "the hell with that!"

It seems that way to me.

In comment 11789816 mrvax said:

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be fractured? As if they had a group that really agreed to the ceasefire and others that said, "the hell with that!" It seems that way to me.

If the goal was to kidnap soldiers, which the linked piece says is suggested by circumstances (tranquilizers, etc), then the goal of the ceasefire may have been to get the Israelis to dial down their posture enough that they could be effectively ambushed.

shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

What a joke. Somehow Israel will be made out to be the bad guy even though Hamas is the one who broke it...

War crimes for not sharing iron dome secrets
Link - ( New Window )

don't care about cease fires. They just want time to re-stock and re-load so they can plan a massacre through the tunnels.

I guess they couldn't let a juicy opportunity to inflict pain on the IDF go to waste. Boys will be boys. Oh well. The world only grieves when a Gazan dies anyways.

yet, it must be those "barbarians."

racism is alive and well on bbi

how about waiting for more accurate info before making a judgment? and in the meantime, just lament the tragedy of two peoples, who have been the victims of terrible oppressions historically, not being able to keep the peace with one another

and say that kidnapping and suicide bombing does qualify as "barbaric".

Sorry you feel otherwise.

In comment 11789902 oipolloi said:

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yet, it must be those "barbarians." racism is alive and well on bbi how about waiting for more accurate info before making a judgment?

Because Hamas has been proven to be liars.

Racist.

You need to go to to a reeducation camp on moral equivalence.

With the well played victim card.

Hamas: You bombed a hospital with women and children in it
IDF: Your command and control headquarters was underneath the hospital with hamas fighters patrolling the floors. besides oit was one of your misfired rockets.
Hamas: Never mind that. You bombed a civilian home
World: Those Israelis slaughter innocents.

In comment 11789902 oipolloi said:

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yet, it must be those "barbarians." racism is alive and well on bbi how about waiting for more accurate info before making a judgment? and in the meantime, just lament the tragedy of two peoples, who have been the victims of terrible oppressions historically, not being able to keep the peace with one another

In comment 11789902 oipolloi said:

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yet, it must be those "barbarians." racism is alive and well on bbi how about waiting for more accurate info before making a judgment? and in the meantime, just lament the tragedy of two peoples, who have been the victims of terrible oppressions historically, not being able to keep the peace with one another

Give names. Who on this thread is a racist, by your own knowledge of their heart and behavior? Just waving the word like a magic wand isn't enough.

You're brush is broad. Sure there is absolutely a lot of people that think that way, but Israel is not alone and without support.

That's one of the problems, you got two sides in conflict and one of the biggest discussion about the conflict is which side is the bigger victim and each side wants to be seen as the bigger victim. Victims lose. Victims die. Then each side gets upset when the other goes to fulfill their wish.

Israel shouldn't want to be the victim at this point. They have a fight to win and they have plenty of people & plenty of powerful friends pulling for them to do just that.

For the first time many Arab states are openly supporting Israel.

On one side you have Israel, Egypt, Jordan, UAE and even Saudi Arabia.

On the other side you have Iran, Qatar and Kerry.
This conflict is a proxy war - ( New Window )

As someone who lived in Israel, has a vested interest in the outcome, and has friends and family on the front lines, I question, and have done so public ally, whether or not Israel should have kicked the "hornet's nest".

While I do believe that they are justified based on the thousands of unprovoked rockets over the last 10 years, I am not sure that they should have based on the risk and loss that has been, is being, and will be assumed (in loss of limb and life).

I have also said that I think that Israel should have built up the infrastructure in Gaza, as painful as it would have been, to support a possible partner and group that has no support, even from their own community.

However, regarding Hamas, who has taken over leadership of Gaza along with fighting they are barbarians, both in the actions towards their own people whom they claim to protect and look after the best interests of, as well as engaging in War. War is painful and comes with risks, but crying about humanitarian injustices and then agreeing only to carry out a heinous act such as this at a time and place which was only made available by the agreement) is barbaric.

I feel for the people who are currently living in Gaza under the demonic rule of Hamas. I hope that they can realize their predicament and take care of this themselves. they are ultimately the only true losers here.

What is israel to do now? How about the "moat option". If Gaza is truly a separate sovereign entity, as they wish to be, give ample warning that in 3 hours clear a 1.5 km band around the border. At the announced time israel should drop bunkerbusters around the entire border to destroy any tunnels leading into israel or egypt. Israel would still need to worry about the rockets which they already have, but those supplies are depleted and will run out. After this, the UN can send in a peace force and this becomes their problem. If they cant control it obviously Israel, and Egypt, will.

For those of you that disagree, what options does Israel have left?

Hamas is a brutal murderous organization (the USA labels them a terrorist group) which rules Gaza like a dictatorship. They care more about optics than they do about people. That is why the IDF takes videos of everything they do.

They intimidate reporters, Confiscate pictures and film and execute non followers. Doctor the videos you see, photoshop the pictures. Place weaponry behind women and children. Fire rockets from locations next to schools, hospitals and homes.

And the world has sympathy for them. Tell me again how they are victims?

oip has no freaking clue what a racist is.

Hamas has no interest in a cease fire. In fact, every civilian that is caught in the crossfire that dies just strengthens their cause.

No easy way out of this mess.

Hamas have at least convinced some that they are victims. I believe the entire world in your estimate. I don't think that.

I'm saying that this conflict is quickly moving past the argument and once engaged in war, you no longer want to be the victim. The word takes a different meaning once two parties agree to war.

even UN chief admits Hamas broke Ceasefire
UN Chief Blames Hamas for Breaking Cease-Fire - ( New Window )

Islsmic fundamentalists, at least a large % of them, are barbarians.

If you don't get this, you, or at least your progeny in a few generations, are due for a very rude awakening.

What's been going on in Darfur for a decade? Have you not noticed? The list of barbarisms commited by Islamic fundamentalists goes on and on and on. Israel happens to be at the front of an idealistic culture clash.

The "age of enlightenment" bypassed the fundamentalist Islamists, by and large, and it's absurd not to recognize this.

The photo of the guy with his head buried in the sand sums it up rather well.

In comment 11789893 mattlawson said:

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War crimes for not sharing iron dome secrets Link - ( New Window )

this shit is outrageous. For so many reasons its not even funny. Not the least of which it's shit like this that keeps leadership in Israel in defense mode all the time and forces them to keep a strong public persona. It's open racism from the most pathetic committee in the embarrassing UN. Disgraceful people.

"The secretary-general condemns in the strongest terms the reported violation by Hamas of the mutually agreed humanitarian ceasefire which commenced this morning," Dujarric said. "He is shocked and profoundly disappointed by these developments."


Shocked. Frankly. Just shocked. So either he is a fucking idiot or a naive moron or a liar.

In comment 11790138 giantfanboy said:

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even UN chief admits Hamas broke Ceasefire UN Chief Blames Hamas for Breaking Cease-Fire - ( New Window )

No kidding - if even the UN can't find a way to blame Israel, the proof must be overwhelming.

what's occurred in Darfur is far more rooted in tribalism and nationalism than religion. Rwandan Hutus largely identify as Christian. Would you characterize the slaughter they undertook as religiously motivated?

Not that I don't in part agree with your underlying point, but get your facts straight.

of my point, and I figured someone would mention the Tootsie (sp) and Hutu barbarism as an example that modern barbarism isn't limited to Islamists.

And I'm glad it's you who did so, Overseer.

But the real life lessons I've been part of that convinced me that Islam has a tendency to blatant barbarism are too small and personal to resonate with dramatic effect. A family that commits an honor killing of a raped 12 year old daughter, the casual way that Muslim acquaintances will discuss people they know pursuing a revenge murder.

Darfur is also about oil wealth, too, which the US has pretty brutally pursued in various venues.

I am pleased you see the basic point. Islam needs very very badly to evolve. Or to be significantly weakened, for world civilization to advance as a whole.

Hamas is a Humanitarian Group. Nancy Pelosi told me so.

Hamas can just stage a fake funeral and have the world's morons eating out of their hand again chop-chop like.

should concern people. Unfortunately, Islamic populaces elect Islamic leaders who want to integrate radical Islamic rule of law. It's a matter of globalization and immigration/emigration. The Muslim population of Europe is increasing dramatically and many are trying institute Islamic law into those countries, which will only make things more troubling for democratic nations who believe in equality and freedom of thought.

It also makes me laugh when I hear claims that Israel is on a mission of ethnic cleansing (I realize that this is a religious map and not an ethnic map regarding types of Muslims). I also have no problem with Muslims, but rather radical Islam in power.

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dearleaderism

You don't really hang with Nancy, do you?

If it turns out that Hamas didn't break the seasefire in this case, then does it follow that:

1) Hamas ceases to be barbarians;

2) Anyone who thinks they are barbarians is a racist; and

3) Egypt, Jordan, UAE and Saudi Arabia are comprised largely of racists?

Thanks in advance for your astute response.

Ceasefire. Seas generally don't fire.

Don't waste your keystrokes/breath ... oipolloi and others like him are useful idiot of sorts (useful to the Hamas propaganda machine, that is) ... These useful idiots are willfully/purposely blind and unwilling to acknowledge certain truths.

Didn't you know that only a tiny, tiny fraction of a very small percent of Sunni Muslims are of the "radical jihadist" flavor ???

Stop being an Islamophobe!!! (/sarcasm). ;)

threat of Islamism is occurring RIGHT NOW in the Sunni Triangle .... UMMMMMMmmmmm .... ISIS !!!! HELLLLLllllOOOOOooooooo????!!!! (Hamas are their close cousins!!!).

wipe out Hamas.
Racist!!!

that ISIS is going to blow itself up.

Destroying important Sunni monuments is not the best way to ingratiate yourself with the locals. As far-out-of-left-field fanatics, it is unlikely that they know how to behave in ways that will not generate severe discontent among those they are now governing, and ultimately a violent response.

Hammas may ultimately do the same, but in the meantime, they are a very real threat to the Israelis.

Racist!

the Hamas tunnel network that has caught the Israeli's by surprise. They knew of the existence of tunnels for years, but could not get intel on them because you can't locate them from the air and they don't have the technology yet to identify them other than going building to building . What they have found is more complex and troublesome than they expected

Someone posted that Israel should "just encircle Gaza with 'moat' by using bunker busters..."

I think our military guys here could point out how literally impossible that is, vis a vis number of bombs it would consume and also that some of these tunnels, from what I've heard on the Israeli news here, are 15 meters underground encased in reinforced concrete. I think that would make relatively them impervious to "bunker busters",no?

Plus, there is a huge added value of going down into these bunkers/tunnels that contain Hamas' military operational hardware for informational purposes. To better prepare for Hamas' next wave of technology and threats.

Israel always needs to be one step ahead of the Jihadists, information wise. If not 2 or 3...

In comment 11790025 BigBlueShock said:

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oip has no freaking clue what a racist is.

Corrected it.

Or anyone else who's served and can share some insight.

Being on the battlefield alone must be a scary experience. Obviously, not having been in the situation I could be wrong but I assume whenever you were on the front lines your enemy was trying to kill you. How would your psyche have changed (if at all) knowing they didn't only want to kill you, but could possible launch ambush attacks to kidnap you or one of your brothers alive as well?

I'm not sure if I really expressed my question well but I'm just trying to see if the threat and being kidnapped and then being used as a bargaining chip against your own country would affect they way they either think or plan

I'm not Ronnie, but I served in the military as well. This scenario you speak of has been a part of war since the beginning of time. You don't really think that kidnapings and the like are exclusive to this conflict, do you? The military has always trained for these scenarios

In comment 11790779 JayBinQueens said:

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Or anyone else who's served and can share some insight. Being on the battlefield alone must be a scary experience. Obviously, not having been in the situation I could be wrong but I assume whenever you were on the front lines your enemy was trying to kill you. How would your psyche have changed (if at all) knowing they didn't only want to kill you, but could possible launch ambush attacks to kidnap you or one of your brothers alive as well? I'm not sure if I really expressed my question well but I'm just trying to see if the threat and being kidnapped and then being used as a bargaining chip against your own country would affect they way they either think or plan

I can't speak for anyone else's experience, but I personally don't think your psyche changes much no matter the latest development in situation or the kind of threat you face (possibility of death or abduction). Yes, your ROE (rules of engagement) may change, causing you to have to adapt your response to threats. However, your mindset should still be that of being in combat in which death, injury, and abduction are all possibilities. Marine General Mattis has two great quotes with what your mindset should be in situations like the one you're asking about.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears."

Complacency is the enemy of vigilance. And in that regards, it's also your enemy when you're in combat.

In comment 11790785 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

I'm not Ronnie, but I served in the as well. This scenario you speak of has been a part of war since the beginning of time. You don't really think that kidnapings and the like are exclusive to this conflict, do you? The military has always trained for these scenarios

No, I don't think this is unique to this situation, but having had a soldier captured the other day it made me wonder

attack that killed two Israeli soldiers and kidnapped one of course was that it came 1.5 hours after Hamas supposedly accepted a cease fire agreement brokered by John Kerry and admin "friends" Turkey and Qatar that would supposedly "allow" the IDF to continue destroying the Hamas tunnel/underground bunker network.

I questioned that Hamas would honor that agreement at all (as did Netanyahu object), and in the end it was part of a ruse to allow the surprise attack. Kerry screwed the pooch on this "ceasefire agreement" hugely from really any which angle you look at it as has been described in the Ignatius link, and that was before it "blew up."

Anyway the latest Israeli news (TV reports from 8-10 pm our time) is that the IDF has "almost completed" their mission to destroy the underground network Hamas built up the past 12 years, and they are already starting to move some forces out of Gaza now. The operation cost over 1,000 Gazan lives (impossible to know the actual civilian/Hamas militant breakdown because Hamas does not release any numbers re their loses) and over 50 Israeli soldiers' lives.

I have linked a Ha'aretz article describing many details of the conflict below, even if it is already out of date. Ha'aretz is notoriously objective and not "Pro-Israeli" at all; it's certainly the most objective news source I have ever read or followed (used to follow BBC News on TV regularly because IMO it's far more objective than CNN or any network US broadcast news) with the possible exception of The Christian Science Monitor (years ago, don't know what they're doing now.)

Anyway it's a good link for objective reporting of 2 day old news of the conflict.

BB has no interest in destroying Hamas at this point in time, nor maintaining one whit of presence in Gaza.
IDF sees "light at the end of the tunnel" - ( New Window )

that the "kidnapped" soldier, Lt. Hadar Goldin, is dead. Hamas stated simply that they lost all contact with their unit that ambushed Goldin's unit, killing two and kidnapping Goldin. The remaining members of Goldin's unit (or other IDF units at the scene) fought back vigorously and even rather wildly, both in an effort to prevent the kidnapping and/or kill the perpetrators of the kidnapping/ambush and also in an effort to destroy the tunnel from which the Hamas unit surprised them.

From the account I read, if there were any Palestinian civilians in the area at the time of the ambush and response to it, G-d help them.

Briefly the Israelis gassed the tunnel in case it was being used as an escape route and not only destroyed it but destroyed also all the immediate buildings in the area of the tunnel entrance/exit. They recovered personal artifacts belonging to Lt. Goldin, and, one gathers, some bits of evidence that would point to his death.
IDF - ( New Window )