...doesn't need to worry too much about the impact on his reputation of a game played on August 3rd.
As for Hankins, Moore and Bromley... if there's a lesson there, it's that the draft is a crap shoot. Hankins was widely regarded as a second-round value, and was taken exactly at the draftnik consensus; Moore went way later than the value most experts put on him (at least before the Combine); Bromley way earlier. And now that consensus is worth exactly nothing.
This is why you draft DLs over and over at the top of the draft. Talent on the DL matters more than anything else in a 4-3. Moore and Hankins are going to be players this year and Bromley flashed as well. The future of this line is in place.
...doesn't need to worry too much about the impact on his reputation of a game played on August 3rd.
As for Hankins, Moore and Bromley... if there's a lesson there, it's that the draft is a crap shoot. Hankins was widely regarded as a second-round value, and was taken exactly at the draftnik consensus; Moore went way later than the value most experts put on him (at least before the Combine); Bromley way earlier. And now that consensus is worth exactly nothing.
The drop for Damontre was ridiculous. He went from a top ten pick to being the 81st pick.
I realize he was going up guys that will not be in the NFL in all likelyhood. However,if you can move and use your Hans, you can move and use your hands, period.
RE: RE: I think our two-time Super Bowl winning GM...
The drop for Damontre was ridiculous. He went from a top ten pick to being the 81st pick.
I think B3's point is that there was no "drop." The early public perception of Moore was not especially well informed. Once NFL teams did their scouting and came to an opinion about the guy, it was that he was (at best) a 3rd-round prospect. That slowly leaked out into media circles, and he "dropped" from a place where he never was to begin with.
I think Chip Kelly's point about some of the draft critiques
was right on the money. He said something about a draftnik knocking their draft, but saying that if the same guys had been assembled in a different order it would have been ranked higher.
People get too caught up in 'where X was supposed to go', as if the guy picked up as a UFA somehow doesn't count in that draft because the 5th rounder ended up fizzling out.
Pugh had a rough night, but he's already proven as is Hankins.
Moore flashed on two consecutive plays with a sack and by forcing the qb out of the pocket. Nassib looked like a competent backup. So, it's beginning to look like Jerry had a good draft last season - maybe a very good one.
i'm still not convinced Moore will be anything other
than a pass rushing specialist or an average DE but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. A live body that can rush the passer and add punch in the rotation would be a welcome addition. Whether he develops into a plus starter at DE remains to be seen but so far so good. He is definitely progressing this summer.
the lower in the draft you get, and especially UDFA, the less credit you get for picking them. Reese wasn't a genius for picking up Cruz. he got lucky. If he had any conviction about Cruz, he would have drafted him and guaranteed he would be a Giant. So, IMO, Reese was WRONG about Cruz. he took a flier and got lucky. he took lots of fliers on other acquisitions and didn't get lucky, but gets a pass because low round picks/UDFA aren't supposed to make the team. Absolutely, the draft is a crap shoot, but you make your best guesses in the order of your conviction, so the lower the round, the less your conviction. yes a missed 5th rounder is more of a bungle than a missed UDFA, and a successful UDFA doesn't make the missed 5th rounder any less of a bungle.
There is, however, a lot of gambling/scheming for when to pick a player. If you're convinced you can get player X a round or two later and/or aren't all that worried about losing him if you miscalculate, then you wait. If you want player X and aren't sure if he'll be there later, you 'reach' and make sure you get him. 'value' ranking is for sports writers and fans.
You can swing that one the other way around and say it's harder to miss on the higher draft picks since they've got more exposure and have performed more consistently.
That was Kelly's point, and I think it was spot on. The talent you assemble throughout the process as an aggregate is what you should be graded on, not where and when.
and all of the players mentioned in this thread played against the 2nd and 3rd string teams of the BUFFALO BILLS, people, I'm not sold on anything or anyone after this game.
Moore flashed on two consecutive plays with a sack and by forcing the qb out of the pocket. Nassib looked like a competent backup. So, it's beginning to look like Jerry had a good draft last season - maybe a very good one.
Not sure anyone can say Pugh is a sure thing. JPP has taken steps back. Beatty too to put it mildly. Pugh had a solid rookie season but How anyone can be sure of a Ayer after 1 year is pretty dangerous in the NFL.
Interesting to hear him talk about the mentors he has (has had) on the giants: Tick, Kiwi, JPP, and of course Stray.
There were questions about his work ethic going into the draft ; certainly that was a factor contributing to his slide, but he's really answering that challenge and the team's wealth of quality DEs have had a very positive influence on him.
His desire to succeed and approach to get there are impressive now, just the opposite of his college reputation.
If he continues to build on his rookie season, we may have a very strong player...
I still need to see a lot more from Damontre Moore... He was great on specials last year, but he didn't show much as a DE... He got stoned a lot... Like everyone else, I watched him beat Kouandjo (who struggled the entire night) on back to back plays last night... But I also watched him get controlled and put on his back by a TE on multiple one on one situations... I also saw him fail to contain the edge on two big runs to his side... The rest was pretty non-eventful...
I'm certainly hopeful that Moore emerges this year, but still need to see a lot more from him to be convinced...
Hankins plays like he's played big time football before.
As for Hankins, Moore and Bromley... if there's a lesson there, it's that the draft is a crap shoot. Hankins was widely regarded as a second-round value, and was taken exactly at the draftnik consensus; Moore went way later than the value most experts put on him (at least before the Combine); Bromley way earlier. And now that consensus is worth exactly nothing.
As for Hankins, Moore and Bromley... if there's a lesson there, it's that the draft is a crap shoot. Hankins was widely regarded as a second-round value, and was taken exactly at the draftnik consensus; Moore went way later than the value most experts put on him (at least before the Combine); Bromley way earlier. And now that consensus is worth exactly nothing.
The drop for Damontre was ridiculous. He went from a top ten pick to being the 81st pick.
Moore really impressed me, I think this kid is gonna be a great player for us in the near future.
Also a big Moore fan. If he can become a player, the defensive line will go a long way towards being pretty good.
The drop for Damontre was ridiculous. He went from a top ten pick to being the 81st pick.
I think B3's point is that there was no "drop." The early public perception of Moore was not especially well informed. Once NFL teams did their scouting and came to an opinion about the guy, it was that he was (at best) a 3rd-round prospect. That slowly leaked out into media circles, and he "dropped" from a place where he never was to begin with.
People get too caught up in 'where X was supposed to go', as if the guy picked up as a UFA somehow doesn't count in that draft because the 5th rounder ended up fizzling out.
He gets caught up in the wash, too easily, against the run....
I'd like to see what he can do in 3rd and long situations....use him specifically on 3rd downs, and see what he can do....
Hankins made some good plays...also made some bad ones too....it's a learning experience, going from a part time player to a starter....
Both have potential.....a lot of guys have potential....they both will get a lot of playing time this year to see if they can fulfill it....
There is, however, a lot of gambling/scheming for when to pick a player. If you're convinced you can get player X a round or two later and/or aren't all that worried about losing him if you miscalculate, then you wait. If you want player X and aren't sure if he'll be there later, you 'reach' and make sure you get him. 'value' ranking is for sports writers and fans.
That was Kelly's point, and I think it was spot on. The talent you assemble throughout the process as an aggregate is what you should be graded on, not where and when.
Not sure anyone can say Pugh is a sure thing. JPP has taken steps back. Beatty too to put it mildly. Pugh had a solid rookie season but How anyone can be sure of a Ayer after 1 year is pretty dangerous in the NFL.
There were questions about his work ethic going into the draft ; certainly that was a factor contributing to his slide, but he's really answering that challenge and the team's wealth of quality DEs have had a very positive influence on him.
His desire to succeed and approach to get there are impressive now, just the opposite of his college reputation.
I still need to see a lot more from Damontre Moore... He was great on specials last year, but he didn't show much as a DE... He got stoned a lot... Like everyone else, I watched him beat Kouandjo (who struggled the entire night) on back to back plays last night... But I also watched him get controlled and put on his back by a TE on multiple one on one situations... I also saw him fail to contain the edge on two big runs to his side... The rest was pretty non-eventful...
I'm certainly hopeful that Moore emerges this year, but still need to see a lot more from him to be convinced...