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Raanan: Eli embraces major change in Giants QB preparation

Defenderdawg : 8/8/2014 1:12 pm
"McAdoo does things differently than previous coordinator Kevin Gilbride. Even the way he involves the quarterbacks in the game plan is unique..."
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eli  
area junc : 8/8/2014 1:53 pm : link
is no longer responsible for the protection calls which is pretty huge. as his supporters have always said, the giants (under KG) asked more of him than other teams did their QBs which is part of the evaluation process

he is in an easier system to perform well in, now, w/less on his plate
offense's success  
area junc : 8/8/2014 2:04 pm : link
is tied way less to eli now, too
....  
AnishPatel : 8/8/2014 2:17 pm : link
Quote:
The quarterbacks] sat down with him on Saturday morning and he kind of picked each of our minds on what plays we liked, what we were thinking, and what plays were maybe a little lower on the list," Manning told NJ.com. "He asked our thoughts and gave some of his thoughts on the game plan and what we were going to try and do. I think that was good.

"We had never done that before."

Gilbride didn't take much input from his quarterbacks that close to game time. He met with them early in the week, but never the day before a game. Manning found the new approach rather refreshing.



I like that Ben M. is doing this. Last minute meeting and just picking the QBs brain on what he likes installed and what is lower on the list.
deleted my other post  
mattlawson : 8/8/2014 2:20 pm : link
On the difference between McAdoo's prep vs Gilbride:

"[The quarterbacks] sat down with him on Saturday morning and he kind of picked each of our minds on what plays we liked, what we were thinking, and what plays were maybe a little lower on the list," Manning told NJ.com. "He asked our thoughts and gave some of his thoughts on the game plan and what we were going to try and do. I think that was good.

"We had never done that before."

///

I guess perception WAS the reality...

This to me is the nail in the coffin for Gilbride and his "no one figured out the offense for 27 years" bullshit attitude.

I don't care what your track record is - to not have a feedback loop from your starting QB before the game plan is unveiled and shoved down your throat, to me, is absurd. It's no wonder this team went 0-6 to start last year, no one was apparently given a voice to say 'hey I think we should use more slants, get the ball out quicker'.

so fucking glad it's a new paradigm.
McAdoo is still young  
HomerJones45 : 8/8/2014 2:21 pm : link
he'll learn.
And again  
Killed the K-Gun : 8/8/2014 2:21 pm : link
Why such hate for an offense that won two SB?
Yeah...  
RC02XX : 8/8/2014 2:22 pm : link
I mean, who gives a flying fuck that his control-freak nature brought us two Super Bowls and led to us having some of the greatest offenses in the franchise history.

Why don't wee just hold off on the celebration until we see how the offense does this season.
RE: And again  
Lord Zedd : 8/8/2014 2:22 pm : link
In comment 11799041 Killed the K-Gun said:
Quote:
Why such hate for an offense that won two SB?


They probably think that if we had anyone besides Gilbride, we would have won 5 Superbowls instead of two.
?  
brandozilla : 8/8/2014 2:23 pm : link
Quote:
I don't care what your track record is - to not have a feedback loop from your starting QB before the game plan is unveiled and shoved down your throat


the article said that gilbride didn't take feedback the day before the game, not that he didn't take feedback at all. Of course gillbride andEli discussed the gameplan.
Rewatch 2013 again on gamerewind  
mattlawson : 8/8/2014 2:27 pm : link
and see how distant a memory 2011 seems.
RE: And again  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 8/8/2014 2:27 pm : link
In comment 11799041 Killed the K-Gun said:
Quote:
Why such hate for an offense that won two SB?


Boggles the mind. No runningbacks, no offensive line, no tightend, 1.5 receivers. But it was the scheme.
RE: Rewatch 2013 again on gamerewind  
RC02XX : 8/8/2014 2:34 pm : link
In comment 11799049 mattlawson said:
Quote:
and see how distant a memory 2011 seems.


Yeah...look at the talent we had on the OLine as well as injuries we had on the skill side. You can spin it however you want. In the end, that terrible offensive mind of Gilbride brought us some of our most successful offensive seasons, not to mention the emergence of two of our top slot receivers, who played incredibly with the option routes.
I hope I'm wrong  
JOMO25 : 8/8/2014 2:40 pm : link
but I just don't see Eli thriving in an offense that requires precision passing (even when he connects, receivers often have to reach for passes which reduce the potential for YAC)

Also, he's such a bad athlete that any time he's out of the pocket, we often see a fumble or pick.
RE: I hope I'm wrong  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 8/8/2014 2:52 pm : link
In comment 11799066 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
but I just don't see Eli thriving in an offense that requires precision passing (even when he connects, receivers often have to reach for passes which reduce the potential for YAC)

Also, he's such a bad athlete that any time he's out of the pocket, we often see a fumble or pick.


If this offense requires an Aaron Rodgers type player, then yes, Eli is a poor fit.
Can we stop with the nonsense  
Exit 172 : 8/8/2014 2:54 pm : link
about Gilbride's offense winning two Super Bowls, please?

That vaunted Gilbride offense entered the 4th quarter of Super Bowl 42 with a whopping 3 points.

Gilbride called two great 4th quarter drives in that Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean his offense won that Super Bowl for the Giants.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/8/2014 2:57 pm : link
2 Super Bowls, thus.. no chance the offense could have grown stale or needed to be changed. Wonderful logic some of you guys use.

Gilbride's system worked well for a pretty long time and we could have done much worse. But the league evolves and it seems his offense never really wanted to adapt. I think the switch will wind up being a major positive for Eli and the offense in general.
Can't we all just be appreciate of Gilbride AND  
bceagle05 : 8/8/2014 3:00 pm : link
excited about the new, more modern NFL offense we're installing? It is possible to walk AND chew gum at the same time.

Agreed that the Gilbride offense winning two Super Bowls is awfully generous to him. How many million Super Bowls has the West Coast offense won again?

And, some of the same people who staunchly defend Gilbride will shit on Spags every chance they get, even though his defense won a Super Bowl, too. And both were miserable failures as head coaches.
appreciate = appreciative*  
bceagle05 : 8/8/2014 3:01 pm : link
Whatever.
RE: .  
RC02XX : 8/8/2014 3:03 pm : link
In comment 11799087 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
2 Super Bowls, thus.. no chance the offense could have grown stale or needed to be changed. Wonderful logic some of you guys use.

Gilbride's system worked well for a pretty long time and we could have done much worse. But the league evolves and it seems his offense never really wanted to adapt. I think the switch will wind up being a major positive for Eli and the offense in general.


That's the point. There is a middle ground. Gilbride's offense was successful for a long time, but I think most of us can agree that it was time for a change.

What gets annoying is all the posters, who conveniently forget the success of that offense and make it sound like Gilbride was some too-stubborn scrub OC. He had his warts, but he was overall a successful playcaller.
RE: Can we stop with the nonsense  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 8/8/2014 3:04 pm : link
In comment 11799082 Exit 172 said:
Quote:
about Gilbride's offense winning two Super Bowls, please?

That vaunted Gilbride offense entered the 4th quarter of Super Bowl 42 with a whopping 3 points.

Gilbride called two great 4th quarter drives in that Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean his offense won that Super Bowl for the Giants.


Exactly, 17 points in 2007 & 21 points in 2011, not exactly earth shattering .
Let's give the defense some credit here.
Forget it, the low points totals in those games  
bceagle05 : 8/8/2014 3:08 pm : link
will be blamed on Eli "Mr. Scattergun" Manning, who happened to be named MVP of both games.
Yes, Gilbride's system  
TEPLimey : 8/8/2014 3:08 pm : link
which has been successful since the Warren Moon era, suddenly grew stale in 2013 and the offense sucked as a result. Or... our O-Line was horrible, and we had no RBs, 1 notable receiver and a black hole at TE, which caused the offense to suck.

Look, I'm excited for McAdoo and his new offense, but the need to shit all over Gilbride just demonstrates insecurity with the love for the current OC.
Hey you  
dorgan : 8/8/2014 3:12 pm : link
Limey prick! It's good to see you back here.

Wanna tussle? I'll put more knots on your head than fish in the ocean.
I think an NFL OC  
mattlawson : 8/8/2014 3:30 pm : link
should be able to adjust to the players in the system, don't you? Oh man -- a bad OL, guess Eli is going to get sacked a lot this year with all these 5-7 step drops and no safety valve designed into the play to get the ball out quick. I wonder what he thinks of it... nah I don't want to bother him. He's got enough to think about.
so does taking stuff off Eli's plate  
SHO'NUFF : 8/8/2014 3:37 pm : link
mean that the organization concedes that Eli couldn't handle it?

Bullshit.

I'm a little skeptical about this offense. I've been beating the simplified offense drum as much as the next guy, but if you have a brain like Eli behind center, you let him call out the protection.

I've shit on the likes of Rivers, Ben, Brees and Rodgers for years for making a living off easy screen passes...now I hope I don't become a hypocrite.
Maybe in the new blocking scheme  
Blue Baller : 8/8/2014 3:41 pm : link
calling out the protection is not necessary

I just think the organization  
bceagle05 : 8/8/2014 3:47 pm : link
saw how easily teams move up and down the field these days thanks to uptempo styles and strict illegal contact enforcement, and were tired of the slower-paced, all-or-nothing nature of our previous offense. We'll all find out soon whether they made the right call, but Gilbride wasn't gonna coach forever either way. How many more years did he have in him? One? Two? Might as well change schemes during a roster overhaul, and while Eli's still young enough to master it long-term (or until McAdoo gets a HC gig).
.  
arcarsenal : 8/8/2014 3:53 pm : link
I think people are just super freaking defensive about Gilbride for whatever reason. Anyone says one thing and it's "everyone's shitting all over Gilbride!"

The offense wasn't clicking in the 2nd half of 2012, either.

And if the offensive line sucks, stop running 5 and 7 step, long developing plays when protections can't hold. It just seemed like we had no answers or adjustments to help overcome the deficiencies on the line. Obviously it's hard to succeed with a shitty OL regardless but we had guys running bad routes, a lot of confusion. The offense just looked broken.

Like I said, we had our successes with Gilbride. His offense worked quite well for a while. It was probably time for a change. I think you can believe that without it meaning you're "shitting on Gilbride"
Let's be honest  
JOMO25 : 8/8/2014 4:01 pm : link
Eli's play clock mgmt is not good. Taking blocking schemes off his plate is a good thing.
RE: .  
RC02XX : 8/8/2014 4:04 pm : link
In comment 11799159 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I think people are just super freaking defensive about Gilbride for whatever reason. Anyone says one thing and it's "everyone's shitting all over Gilbride!"

The offense wasn't clicking in the 2nd half of 2012, either.

And if the offensive line sucks, stop running 5 and 7 step, long developing plays when protections can't hold. It just seemed like we had no answers or adjustments to help overcome the deficiencies on the line. Obviously it's hard to succeed with a shitty OL regardless but we had guys running bad routes, a lot of confusion. The offense just looked broken.

Like I said, we had our successes with Gilbride. His offense worked quite well for a while. It was probably time for a change. I think you can believe that without it meaning you're "shitting on Gilbride"


Couldn't agree more, man. My initial post was in response to our dowser boy more than anything.

Glad that all of your tattoos hasn't messed with your sensible thinking, man...;)
Actually in Super Bowl 42  
beatrixkiddo : 8/8/2014 4:06 pm : link
wasn't the scoring when Eli was in 2-min drill, meaning he had control of the plays? That would give even less credit to Gilbride.
Re: Adjusting to the personnel  
Semipro Lineman : 8/8/2014 4:17 pm : link
Name the OC who is going to be successful adjusting his offense when the 8th, 9th, and 10th stringer offensive lineman are starting?

The running game was successfully adjusted for various backs from Tiki and Wilson to Ward and Jacob. There no way in hell as an observant Giant fan you can honestly say, they ran the same plays with the same blocking assignments for each back.

The tight-end position routes changed from Shockley's to Ballards along with the blocking which was tailored to utilized guys like Bennett or adjusted to fit Boss and Meyers. (Meyer's inability to even get up to Boss or Beckum level of competencey is on him in my opinion.)

The same thing for the Wide Receivers. The options remained but do you really believe that Randle was asked to do the same things as Plax or did Gilbridge make subtle adjustments to fit what Randle did well?

Sometimes BBI comes across as Fox/MSNBC TV pundits mouthing ESPN talking points instead of taking the time to break things down further
Gilbride had too  
OldPolack : 8/8/2014 4:21 pm : link
many cooks stirring the broth.
He needed at least 5 players to be on the same page on a given pass play.
1 QB,2 WRs, 1 SE, 1TE.
The DC's also know of KG's system so they also move players before the snap.
Randle wasn't asked to be Plaxico, but Hixon was.  
Riggies : 8/8/2014 4:26 pm : link
It was pretty well reported they basically just gave him Burress' plays and it was supposed to work in 2008, after Burress shot himself.

The same thing happened with Ward and Jacobs in season at one point too, where Jacobs was just given Ward's and was supposed to make it work all the same, despite being two very different RBs.

Gilbride adjusted well for most of his tenure from season to season, but it was a struggle for him in-season to adjust semi on the fly at times and that probably was one of several factors in why the offense would go through its yearly swoons. Pointing that out doesn't mean one thinks he was some terrible blight on the team or anything either.
RE: Let's be honest  
Riggies : 8/8/2014 4:29 pm : link
In comment 11799178 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
Eli's play clock mgmt is not good. Taking blocking schemes off his plate is a good thing.

According to guys like Toomer, who played here, the biggest problem with clock management was usually the calls getting into Eli late for what he had to do, not Eli just pissing away the time with any inability of his own.
Gillbride should go up in the Ring of Honor  
YorkAveGiant : 8/8/2014 4:48 pm : link
right next to TC.
Matt  
steve in ky : 8/8/2014 4:50 pm : link
Quote:
I don't care what your track record is - to not have a feedback loop from your starting QB before the game plan is unveiled and shoved down your throat, to me, is absurd. It's no wonder this team went 0-6 to start last year, no one was apparently given a voice to say 'hey I think we should use more slants, get the ball out quicker'


From the linked article: "Gilbride didn't take much input from his quarterbacks that close to game time. He met with them early in the week, but never the day before a game"

Gilbride clearly did seek their feedback, but obviously he felt it was more beneficial to do so while preparing earlier in the week and then work on the game plan based on that feedback rather than seeking it after having worked on it. I don't know which is a better approach, but to claim he didn't seek their feedback is inaccurate.
I remember an article re: a very young Eli  
bc4life : 8/8/2014 4:52 pm : link
when he was really struggling. They were on a bus, plane, some mode of transportation and KG asked Eli a lot of those same questions - what plays he felt comfortable with.

You manage, lead according to who you are. There is one size fits all.

KG was the man when they won two SBs - And, no bullshit revisionist history or "yeahbuttology" is ever going to change that. That is not to say, it was not time for change and that the new OC's method will not work.

And re: KG's offense - nothing was going to work with last year's O-Line, nothing.
no one  
bc4life : 8/8/2014 4:53 pm : link
size fits all
RE: Randle wasn't asked to be Plaxico, but Hixon was.  
Semipro Lineman : 8/8/2014 5:06 pm : link
In comment 11799242 Riggies said:
Quote:
It was pretty well reported they basically just gave him Burress' plays and it was supposed to work in 2008, after Burress shot himself.


That was the year that Hixon caught 43 passes for 13.9 yards per catch. The year before, Plax had a 14.6 yard per catch so yeah it sort of worked.

As for the Ward and Jacobs thing, what can Ward do that Jacobs can't? They are somewhat similar players with Ward being a little bit niffier runner and slightly better pass catcher. Which is why Ward was better as a third down back but that doesn't mean that Jacobs could not fill in that role as well.

Once again, I saw mulitple in-season adjustments. The use of the WR screen a few years ago to Manningham and Nicks that exploited defenses tendacy to play off our receivers was a mid-season adjustment. The focus on running the ball in 2008 when again, Plax and Toomer received so much attention. What Ray Lewis said about that game particular sticks with me as he bitterly responsed to the press questions about how the Giants stuck it them for 200 yard in a 30 to 10 defeat. The incorporation of Smith, Cruz, and Ballard into bigger and bigger roles when they emerged. Etc....

This is the fair haired boy  
RetroJint : 8/8/2014 6:04 pm : link
fucking bullshit. McCoattails has not called a regular season play and all ready his influence is going to make everybody so much better. A few points : 1 The last time the Giants were in a WCO in a Super Bowl they got the shit beat out of them. 2 Up tempo doesn't mean jack if you can't get any first downs. Despite all the clamor to the contrary, Eli has never been an effective extended no-huddle quarterback. 3. Eli calling his own protections meant the smartest guy on the team was doing it and Gilbride & Coughlin's track record at keeping him healthy for 10 years was pretty good. 4 What was the Packers offense with Tolzien playing quarterback ? He moves like Eli. There is so much cheap shit going around. Let's do reality.
First, Gilbride was forced out by John Mara, who is an amateur at the game. Second the Giants lacked an O-line, TE , healthy RBs and a deep threat last season. If they get some of those they'll be better than last year but they would have done the same in the previous system..
Retro,  
AnishPatel : 8/8/2014 6:11 pm : link
Quote:
Second the Giants lacked an O-line, TE , healthy RBs and a deep threat last season.


I can't believe how much shit we lacked last season. What an utter shit show of a season on offense. Deep threat was an issue, but Nicks couldn't even win a fucking jump ball. Ironically, this was coming, the offense showed cracks beforehand, and pre season was god awful, but still many can pawn it off as pre season. I never seen a season where we had such a shitty start.

Let's see how we do this year in this new system.
RE: Let's be honest  
Giantology : 8/8/2014 6:11 pm : link
In comment 11799178 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
Eli's play clock mgmt is not good. Taking blocking schemes off his plate is a good thing.


Let's be honest, you don't think much of Eli Manning.
Good posts by SemiPro as usual and several others,  
BlueLou : 8/8/2014 6:54 pm : link
while plenty others parse out data to fit their own agenda pro or con Gilbride.

As already noted, Macadoo seeking the QBS' feedback closer to game time could be as much a function of his lack of experience or even insecurity as some welcome positive breath of fresh air.

And Gilbride's 20+ years of experience with lots of success could have led him ultimately to a sense of complacency that was due for a turnover.

As for giving Gilbride too much credit for 2 SB wins when in fact the team didn't score many points in either game... Why is it typically OK to lay a whopping load of credit on Eli for those SB wins then? Hypocrites?

Gilbride's system had a hell of a lot to do with the whole playoff ride leading up to those 2 SB victories and if you missed that your not much at watching FB.

Or perhaps my single favorite Gilbride experience - turning Derrick Ward into a 1000 yard NFL rb. That was as much on Gilbride's system, his game plans, and specific play calling as it was on Ward's modest talent. Again if you didn't notice that you probably aren't terribly observant.

Interesting article by Raanan, but let's not make mountains from mole hills.
KG's offense  
SHO'NUFF : 8/8/2014 8:33 pm : link
did keep the Patriots O off the field for nearly an entire quarter.
Tom Coughlin is the guy to complinent on the running game  
mattlawson : 8/8/2014 11:32 pm : link
Not Gilbride. In 2011 when we had a shit OL and no run game - Gilbride loved leaning on the pass. To say gilbride made Derrick fucking ward a 1000 yard rusher does a complete disservice to the guys that actually did. Our road grading, dominant, best in the league OL.

Tom Coughlin has always wanted to combine a passing offense with a physical, power run game. that is his influence. You're already seeing the marriage play out in he first preseason game. Same running concepts. The difference is the RB is expecting a pass in 2 seconds no matter where they are in the field. I can't tell you how often the RB last year was standing next to Eli trying to block while the pocket was swallowed up and Eli sacked. It's maddening how little was done loss after loss to try and make progress. It's not all personnel either. Leave the TE and RB in to pass block and giving our WRs no help to stretch out the defense. It's like the success of the 2011 offense was completely forgotten. Almost 40% less passes to the Backs and TEs in 2012. 2013 continued to be all about the deep ball. Ridiculous.

Let's not make Gilbride out to be some sort of god like figure here. Eli had 7 4th quarter comebacks to get Into the playoffs - that's him putting the team on his shoulders in the no huddle. Not gilbride. To those that thjnk he wont want to throw down the field, you're mistaken. To those that think he can't run a hurry up offense - you'll be proven wrong. To those that think this offense will be dink and dunk - I think you'll be surprised.

Can't wait to get on with progress. Let's get this season going already.
If you want to say Gilbride's offense wasn't great in 2011  
bignygfan : 8/9/2014 2:00 pm : link
and say the defense did well, then you have to give credit to the d-coordinator. Fewell.

But we all know Fewell is a complete fool compared to Spags - the greatest defensive mind in the history of football.

So I say we should give back our Lombardis since no one deserves the credit.
...  
Lord Zedd : 8/9/2014 2:09 pm : link
+1 to Semipro Lineman, RetroJint, and BabeLou.
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