18-year-old Michael Brown was killed by police over the weekend. It turns out he was unarmed and the preliminary story of what happened is all kinds of fishy.
Based on this LA Times story, Brown and a friend were walking in the middle of the street to Brown's grandmother's house. A patrol car pulled up and told them to get out of the street and some kind of scuffle ensued with Brown in the car. Then, Brown got out, put his hands up and was shot repeatedly?
Try to disregard all the ridiculous looting and vandalism by the opportunistic scum.
The officer who fired the shots was a 6-year vet of the force and is on paid administrative leave.
LA Times Reporting - (
New Window )
Robbery is usually taking something with force or the threat of force. A theft is just stealing something and running out of the store.
Yeah I think your correct...Especially adding the fact he got physical with the clerk...
There is another video of the incident in the store from a different angle that shows him interacting with the clerk (the claim is he pays for the cigars in hand). He appears to grab more cigars then he had money for, and he puts back a bunch of them. Some view the clerk coming around the counter with Browns money in hand (but i don't know if i agree with that, hard to tell). The link claims the Stores attorney stated that the owner of the store was puzzled why they even asked for the tape since they never reported a crime and felt it was not a serious issue.
Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store. According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.
So now we need to see if charges are filed against Dorin Johnson with regards to the leaked vid where the police claimed they robbed the store. The link below is to a biased website but they were the first to show the video thus why i linked them.
Another question mark
link - ( New Window )
If he stole cigars and shoved someone on the way out, that's robbery. Because it wasn't THAT violent, and because the money at issue was small, it may not have been reported, but remember that this whole idea that you can press or drop charges is mostly a myth. In most places even if you swear out a citizen warrant you have little to no control over what happens to the charges thereafter, and even if you as the victim don't want charges taken out if the LEO finds probable cause in what you say and/or the evidence he can get an arrest warrant of his own accord.
Why, what do you find wrong with posting it?
Upon further review ... I agree.
Quote:
this is robbery. It is a class B felony as I read the statute, penalty seems to be 5 to 15 years.
Yeah I think your correct...Especially adding the fact he got physical with the clerk...
There is another video of the incident in the store from a different angle that shows him interacting with the clerk (the claim is he pays for the cigars in hand). He appears to grab more cigars then he had money for, and he puts back a bunch of them. Some view the clerk coming around the counter with Browns money in hand (but i don't know if i agree with that, hard to tell). The link claims the Stores attorney stated that the owner of the store was puzzled why they even asked for the tape since they never reported a crime and felt it was not a serious issue.
Quote:
From observation, it looks as if he had tried to buy more, but then was unable to afford it, hence why he left several packets on the counter. This prompted the store owner to come out from behind the counter and have a discussion with him, which prompted the shove witnessed in the full video.
Whatever words were exchanged between the man in the video and the store owner, they were not considered very serious, as the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store. According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.
So now we need to see if charges are filed against Dorin Johnson with regards to the leaked vid where the police claimed they robbed the store. The link below is to a biased website but they were the first to show the video thus why i linked them.
Another question mark link - ( New Window )
First I don't see any transfer of money in that video, and why would it be illegal to release the video? Didn't they even cite the freedom of information act as the reason they released it and that they held back releasing it until after funeral services were complete out of respect for the family?
I don't know, that is not my take, that is the websites theory....My reason for posting it is because it shows the whole sequence of the situation at the store. I would think that would be something interesting to have available and why was this not released with the earlier vid?
Quote:
In comment 11827023 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 11826939 PA Giant Fan said:
Quote:
The horror....It hasnt been proven he hit him the face? And the gun didnt go off inside the car? And they weren't struggling. Except some want you to believe he was pulling a 300lb man into the car.....but whatever.. You have been proven to be a troll. congrats...
This is so fucking stupid. You sit there and keep repeating "OMG YOU CLAIM HE PULLED A 300 LB INTO A CAR LOL TROLL TROLL TROLL"
While it's equally as stupid, if not even more stupid, to assume someone would fight a cop, run away from a cop, then turn around and faced an armed cop, while unarmed, and charge at him.
The truth is, NEITHER of those things probably happened. But in a vacuum, the latter is less plausible than the former.
but oh yeah, Brown shoved a clerk and took $48 worth of cigars. Clearly he was ready to fight cops to the death.
It's like you wish he was a crazed, cracked out "thug" (i.e nigger) hellbent on killing a cop. Well even if he was, him stealing a box of cigars while shoving a cop isn't really proof of that, sorry. It's fucking bullshit.
I love how you so casually dismiss his behavior and then go on to further your argument by describing what he stole AND it's value. And it wasn't just a shove. When the clerk tries to keep Brown from leaving the store, Brown makes an agressive charge or movement toward him. I guess that could alleged kidnapping by the store owner.
And forget all that... You flat out clearly don't give two shits about the clerk who just went through a traumatizing situation.
Ok, does ANY of that have to do with whether or not Brown should be shot dead in the street?
What are you trying to say here? The clerk was traumatized, so Brown deserved to die in the middle of the road?
I'm bringing up the value of the item and the fact that it was a shove because I am trying to dispel the notion that the robbery somehow implies Brown was a crazed maniac on a deathwish trying to murder cops.
If he was a crazed murderer on a deathwish who didn't care about killing cops, he'd have likely stolen something of greater value, and actually injured the clerk.
But regardless of what happened, regardless of how traumatizing the situation was for the clerk (I mean, he didn't even call 911 but regardless, there could have been other reasons) - it doesn't matter, because we have due process in this country, and Brown committing a robbery shouldn't be some kind of roundabout justification for him being shot dead in the street.
Regardless of how much you want to break down the robbery, the fact of the matter is that nobody deserves to be shot dead for something of that magnitude, unless you think we should be doling out the death penalty for unarmed robberies.
And the retort to this is that it shows that Brown was in a certain state of mind that would lead people to believe he was likely to kill a cop. And my response to that is how I ended my last post: it's fucking bullshit. Shoving a clerk and stealing something of comparatively value makes you a criminal, but doesn't equate to someone being down to just start killing cops.
It's simple. You've chosen to defend a criminal and down play his behavior because you hate cops. And further you ignore the innocent store clerks assault to further your cause. You've allowed your hatered to cloud your judgement. I probably have what could be described as an unhealthy dislike of police officers. Yet I'm able to use simple reason in my thought process of any situation.
Again, please tell me, all the chips on the table; if you're a betting man, you're betting on the the belief that after exhibiting such dangerous behavior on that tape, he just happened to stumble across a racist cop that was out to kill a black kid, in the middle of the street, in the middle of a neighborhood of his peers, in the middle of the day???
There are times when you have to step back and really allow yourself to look at things logically and not let bias cloud your judgement.
LOL...The kid with no-facts that he claims are facts is back....You have posted the "I don't like cops" mantra 8 times now, it does not matter to anyone who or what you like...Homework get done? Did you read up and actually check shit out about this?
Good to see you view that ass whipping i gave you last night as a gift..That is a positive first step towards adult discussion.
Quote:
In comment 11827029 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 11827023 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 11826939 PA Giant Fan said:
Quote:
The horror....It hasnt been proven he hit him the face? And the gun didnt go off inside the car? And they weren't struggling. Except some want you to believe he was pulling a 300lb man into the car.....but whatever.. You have been proven to be a troll. congrats...
This is so fucking stupid. You sit there and keep repeating "OMG YOU CLAIM HE PULLED A 300 LB INTO A CAR LOL TROLL TROLL TROLL"
While it's equally as stupid, if not even more stupid, to assume someone would fight a cop, run away from a cop, then turn around and faced an armed cop, while unarmed, and charge at him.
The truth is, NEITHER of those things probably happened. But in a vacuum, the latter is less plausible than the former.
but oh yeah, Brown shoved a clerk and took $48 worth of cigars. Clearly he was ready to fight cops to the death.
It's like you wish he was a crazed, cracked out "thug" (i.e nigger) hellbent on killing a cop. Well even if he was, him stealing a box of cigars while shoving a cop isn't really proof of that, sorry. It's fucking bullshit.
I love how you so casually dismiss his behavior and then go on to further your argument by describing what he stole AND it's value. And it wasn't just a shove. When the clerk tries to keep Brown from leaving the store, Brown makes an agressive charge or movement toward him. I guess that could alleged kidnapping by the store owner.
And forget all that... You flat out clearly don't give two shits about the clerk who just went through a traumatizing situation.
Ok, does ANY of that have to do with whether or not Brown should be shot dead in the street?
What are you trying to say here? The clerk was traumatized, so Brown deserved to die in the middle of the road?
I'm bringing up the value of the item and the fact that it was a shove because I am trying to dispel the notion that the robbery somehow implies Brown was a crazed maniac on a deathwish trying to murder cops.
If he was a crazed murderer on a deathwish who didn't care about killing cops, he'd have likely stolen something of greater value, and actually injured the clerk.
But regardless of what happened, regardless of how traumatizing the situation was for the clerk (I mean, he didn't even call 911 but regardless, there could have been other reasons) - it doesn't matter, because we have due process in this country, and Brown committing a robbery shouldn't be some kind of roundabout justification for him being shot dead in the street.
Regardless of how much you want to break down the robbery, the fact of the matter is that nobody deserves to be shot dead for something of that magnitude, unless you think we should be doling out the death penalty for unarmed robberies.
And the retort to this is that it shows that Brown was in a certain state of mind that would lead people to believe he was likely to kill a cop. And my response to that is how I ended my last post: it's fucking bullshit. Shoving a clerk and stealing something of comparatively value makes you a criminal, but doesn't equate to someone being down to just start killing cops.
It's simple. You've chosen to defend a criminal and down play his behavior because you hate cops. And further you ignore the innocent store clerks assault to further your cause. You've allowed your hatered to cloud your judgement. I probably have what could be described as an unhealthy dislike of police officers. Yet I'm able to use simple reason in my thought process of any situation.
Again, please tell me, all the chips on the table; if you're a betting man, you're betting on the the belief that after exhibiting such dangerous behavior on that tape, he just happened to stumble across a racist cop that was out to kill a black kid, in the middle of the street, in the middle of a neighborhood of his peers, in the middle of the day???
There are times when you have to step back and really allow yourself to look at things logically and not let bias cloud your judgement.
Give me a break. I'm stating that someone committing an unarmed robbery of a convenience store isn't automatically someone who is likely to fight to the death with cops.
You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of: Trying to make what occurred seem as violent and dangerous as possible to postulate that Brown was someone who was ready to take a cop's life.
There's a huge jump between his crime and cop-killing.
And no, I don't think that he just ran into a racist cop who felt like shooting a black guy. I think there was some sort of incident, probably Brown trying to escape - but it very well could have likely ended up in a myriad of ways other than an unarmed dead teenager.
When an unarmed person is shot by the cops, there better be some solid evidence that a cops life was in immediate danger.
I'm also stating that police do not have enough accountability or controls on their power, and are ineffective when tasked with investigating their own organizations or other police organizations.
You mean the guy who had his store looted during riots now says he didn't think it was a big deal? I wonder why he would say that?
Perhaps, the customer who called the police told the owner after the "Gentle Giant" had left the store so he didn't need to make the call.
Local people robbing, looting and destroying stores that..
1. Many are owned by other black citizens
2. Most employ people who live right in those neighborhoods which means they may now be out of work.
3. Many rely on and shop in those stores.
If the local laws are applied/enforced as written, then this cop should never be convicted of any wrong doing. In this state, a cop is permitted to shoot someone who runs from being questioned. The person does not even have to be accused of a crime. Shitty law but that is what it is. ...don't shoot the messenger.
Long term - the only thing that will potentially fix this situation between the people in these high crime areas and the cops is to have the police depts in those cities racially mirror those cities. It does not mean that black cops will go easy on the people who live there. In fact, they may be tougher because they would not be concerned about the racist claims. What you may find is that the citizens would fight the cops less because they are black. I personally think there is hostility towards white cops in black neighborhoods even if they did not do anything to deserve that hostility. Now, if we can only get more black people in those areas to apply to be, and pass the test to become a police officer.
1. Many are owned by other black citizens
2. Most employ people who live right in those neighborhoods which means they may now be out of work.
3. Many rely on and shop in those stores.
If you would have followed the story unfold, you would have seen that only a handful of looters and violent protesters are actually from Ferguson and call it their home. Majority are from elsewhere and chose this incident as an opportunity to get back at the "man" as well as to make some quick score.
Maybe instead of jumping to conclusion in the other direction as opposed to folks like Sonic Youth and others who have been critical of the police, you probably should have took heed of what many people have stated on this thread already and don't let your own biases and emotions cloud your ability to dig deeper.
Quote:
If you would have followed the story unfold, you would have seen that only a handful of looters and violent protesters are actually from Ferguson and call it their home.
No.. NOT true. Show me some stats that show how many are from out of town. The looting started way before those other people came into town. Yes there are stories of people traveling in for this. They even showed a guy from Texas who was arrested three nights in a row. Those stories exist but do not come here and try to pass off all of the looters as out of town people. Save that BS story for someone else.
It's one thing that the protesters and the local government seem to agree upon. The mayor came out two days after the even and was saying that many of the looters were coming from out of town and that the citizens of Ferguson were generally complying with police requests.
Dude...everyone on the ground agreed that majority of the looters weren't locals, so your assertion that the locals are destroying their own livelihood is patently false. But if you want to use that as your narrative in your shitty attempt at a veiled racial bullshit, then by all means go for it.
Quote:
But you have to admit it is odd that it was not the store owner who did and per his lawyer did not view it as a serious matter.
You mean the guy who had his store looted during riots now says he didn't think it was a big deal? I wonder why he would say that?
Perhaps, the customer who called the police told the owner after the "Gentle Giant" had left the store so he didn't need to make the call.
So let me get this straight..according to you, the riots scared the guy from making this out to be a big deal to him..If that is the case then why did he not call the police prior to the riots about this horrible robbery? I
I don't know anyone outside of his family and friends who used the term "Gentle Giant". The guy was not a gentle giant, but neither was he a mad dog..so spare me the hyperbole.
This could absolutely be why he did not call. As I stated above the question here is if any charges are filed
Dude you are making my day....my week really...
Keep defending a thug that is on videotape committing a felony, robbing a store literally 10 minutes before the incident.
If the local laws are applied/enforced as written, then this cop should never be convicted of any wrong doing. In this state, a cop is permitted to shoot someone who runs from being questioned. The person does not even have to be accused of a crime.
That is completely incorrect...There is no state in the USA that allows a cop to shoot you for just running from him. These are the mandated guidelines for use of force:
2- does the actor have the opportunity to use a weapon to cause serious injury or death to someone else or you.
3- does the actor intent cause you to believe someone else or yourself will be seriously injured or may die.
Use of force is serious issue where officers can be criminally charged for use of excessive force. In some cases officers have been criminally and civilly charged with failure to act.
the officer must be able to articulate the events and actions that prompted the officer to apply force.
Dude you are making my day....my week really...
Keep defending a thug that is on videotape committing a felony, robbing a store literally 10 minutes before the incident.
Its spelled "according"..little buddy...see I keep schooling you night and day.
You didnt answer...either...was Brown and the store clerk just hugging it out?
Is it
A)The clerk and Brown are really secret best friends having a little fun?
B)The Clerk actually likes being robbed and grabbed by the throat?
C)Nothing really happened and we all imagined it?
D)The clerk feared for retribution?
Poor sweet Michael Brown.
Then according to Montana, 10 minutes later this sweet Michael Brown just so happened to run in a racist cop that decided to shoot him 6 times for no reason.
Link - ( New Window )
You didnt answer...either...was Brown and the store clerk just hugging it out?
What am I incorrect, or correct about Ace? I don't know if the shooting was justified or not. I have never stated the Cop was guilty or innocent, nor have I claimed Brown was undeserving of the shooting. You had a ton of info come out at first that has now been found to be incorrect. Then we have you who continues to propagate nonsense (in between the multitude of "I don't like cops" claims that you have repeated ad nauseam) and then gets his panties bunched up when your errors get pointed out.
So, if the officer felt that because the guy was twice his size and was posing a threat (whether armed or not), then he could use deadly force. Plus, if the officer attempted to question him because he thought the teen attempted to commit a felony, then he COULD shoot him if he ran during the questioning.
Is it
A)The clerk and Brown are really secret best friends having a little fun?
B)The Clerk actually likes being robbed and grabbed by the throat?
C)Nothing really happened and we all imagined it?
D)The clerk feared for retribution?
Poor sweet Michael Brown.
Then according to Montana, 10 minutes later this sweet Michael Brown just so happened to run in a racist cop that decided to shoot him 6 times for no reason.
Why do you come on this thread and repeatedly LIE about stuff? Do you honestly think making a false claim about what I have said serves you any good? This is like the 4th time you have done this, every single time in the past you get your ass handed to you and then you slink away until the next time when the whole process gets repeated..
I never said he hugged him, never said they did not have a violent confrontation (in fact i have repeatedly said this was a robbery due to him shoving the clerk).
Don't be upset because I busted you lying earlier in this thread, just stop lying. Pull your panties out of your ass, man the fuck up, and stop lying. You won't get so humiliated by just following those simple rules
Montana, why don't you post your version of events you think are likely that you posted above again so we can get a good look at your objectivity here...lol
So, if the officer felt that because the guy was twice his size and was posing a threat (whether armed or not), then he could use deadly force. Plus, if the officer attempted to question him because he thought the teen attempted to commit a felony, then he COULD shoot him if he ran during the questioning.
Correct, but that was not what you wrote Eric. You said this:
[quote]If the local laws are applied/enforced as written, then this cop should never be convicted of any wrong doing. In this state, a cop is permitted to shoot someone who runs from being questioned. The person does not even have to be accused of a crime.[/quote
A cop is not allowed to just shoot someone running from being questioned
So, if the officer felt that because the guy was twice his size and was posing a threat (whether armed or not), then he could use deadly force. Plus, if the officer attempted to question him because he thought the teen attempted to commit a felony, then he COULD shoot him if he ran during the questioning.
Correct, but that was not what you wrote Eric. You said this:
A cop is not allowed to just shoot someone running from being questioned
So come on repost you event timeline here. Explain to us all how poor sweet innocent Michael Brown robbed a store, then just so happened to run into a racist cop that decided to shoot him in the middle of the street, middle of the day, because he doesnt like blakc people.
So come on repost you event timeline here. Explain to us all how poor sweet innocent Michael Brown robbed a store, then just so happened to run into a racist cop that decided to shoot him in the middle of the street, middle of the day, because he doesnt like blakc people.
Go away..your are coming across like a petulant child at this point...Its really unfair for me and to the board, to continue to even spend the time correcting all the fallacies you keep coming up with. You just keep repeating the same nonsense, add some new fabrication, and your subtle racism is tiresome..For the sake of the thread and so that Eric does not delete it, stop posting to me..your an idiot and i don't have the energy.
Let's wait until findings are released before calling people felons or gentle giants. Before claiming orbital bones have been broken or that a store owner accepted cash for cigars that appear to be in the process of stolen.
It really shouldn't be that difficult.
I don't know where your getting that from but he can't shoot him because he may believe he committed a felony. Here is the supreme court ruling from 1985:
Memphis, Tennessee, 1974. Police are looking for a burgler. They see a suspect fleeing the scene of the crime. He tries to get away, climbing over a chain-link fence. A policeman shoots the suspect who turns out to be an unarmed teenaged boy.
..."The use of deadly force is a self-defeating way of apprehending a suspect and so setting the criminal justice mechanism in motion." Justice Byron White writes: "The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. ...It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead."
Johnson still has to deal with an outstanding warrant in another county...
Link - ( New Window )
Let's wait until findings are released before calling people felons or gentle giants. Before claiming orbital bones have been broken or that a store owner accepted cash for cigars that appear to be in the process of stolen.
It really shouldn't be that difficult.
I agree...thing is no one has claimed he paid for them..I presented a clip and stated that the website is a biased one and that they believed he was paying for them. I also pointed out that per that clip he appears to be putting back packages of cigars he had in his hand.
The clip was something unseen and happened seconds prior to the shove by Brown. It appears to show a normal transaction up to when the clerk comes around the counter. The sole purpose of the clip was to watch the seconds prior to the struggle from a different angle. The other question it presents is why was it not included with the leaked clip of the shove? That was all that was
Nobody is right or wrong at this point, because nobody has the facts.
That's all i was trying to say.