Do they both make it? Who has the edge as of today? I knew very little if anything about either guy less than a month ago. They have both been mentioned a lot.
The only thing that could stop him is one of these things imo.
1. A complete meltdown
2. Injury
3. Absolutely no value on specials
Even with number three I think we have seen how we need him on offense that number three could get overlooked.
As far as Harris goes I think he has his foot in the door but specials may be a little more important for him.
We usually keep six. I think we kept five last year but I also don't think that is the norm. Who is definitely making this team? Cruz, Randle and Beckham. After that I think Jernigan still makes it. That leaves us with two spots. Has anybody else been better than Harris and Washington? I think not.
GB is loaded at WR. If Jeff Janis doesn't make the roster I hope we claim him off of waivers or sign him off of their PS. The guy has all the tool and supposed work ethic that you want in a WR. It is uncanny. The issue is he played at DII so he will take time to develop.
I doubt both it to the active 53. Sounds like Washington
Well said. I agree 100%. Those 2 are in the driver's seat and need to keep there foot down on the gas the rest of camp. If they keep it up and execute on specials they are on the team. The only question really is Punt Returner and that's where specials can effect one of these guys. Holliday is still lurking.... Of course his chance to make the team is dwindling because he can't get on the field and I don't think he's more then a returner for them. Parker is the dark horse as he is clearly the #1 PR in pre-season so far. Watch PR for the 6th WR.
...a distinct height advantage and a, so far, demonstrated ability to use it to his advantage. He has made no contributions on specials, but I think the Giants want (need) a competent, tall receiver.
In that article about him, he referred to himself playing gunner on specials, but maybe that was his wish rather than the actuality. I haven't been watching specials closely enough to know the answer.
By most accounts Harris had had the best camp of any WR on the team. I think he'd probably be considered the #4 WR in any real depth chart. However, I think both could easily make it. OBJ, Cruz, Randle, Harris, Washington and Jernigan.
I was going to say that a lot of people were basing opinions on Washington on 2 preseason plays. Granted, both were TDs, but can you really evaluate a guy based on 2 plays?
Then I read about the practice he had yesterday against the first team defense. This guy will not be cut. No way.
As for Harris, I thought he was pretty impressive in the Bills game. Didn't do much against the Steelers. I don't think the guy gets cut. If he doesn't make the team he may have to get "injured."
one of their rookie draft picks to a torn ACL, so they might not be as loaded as you think.
I never said he was getting cut. I said if he doesn't make the final 53.
Right now they have Nelson, Cobb, Boykin, Adams and a bunch of other guys competing for spots. Janis missed two weeks because of shingles so it is no guarantee that he makes the team. I'm just saying if he doesn't I would love to take a chance on a WR with his size and extremely rare speed/quickness. As we know we need some height in our receiving corps.
As I recall, Janis did not look good at the Senior Bowl. He had trouble getting separation and he dropped a few balls. Someone mentioned that he had small hands.
gives Washington the lead. He just brings a different skill set then any other WR we have on the team. MM vs Harris may be the real question. Just due to health Harris has the lead but MM has done it in the past.
RE: robbie, the link isn't working for me. However...
As I recall, Janis did not look good at the Senior Bowl. He had trouble getting separation and he dropped a few balls. Someone mentioned that he had small hands.
He does have small hands. He needs to work on his route running with his size/speed combo I'm not worried about him getting separation. It is an excel spreadsheet so I think you need access to it by having someone send it to you.
Is it possible that both Jernigan and Manningham don't make the team
gives Washington the lead. He just brings a different skill set then any other WR we have on the team. MM vs Harris may be the real question. Just due to health Harris has the lead but MM has done it in the past.
If that is the competition then Harris is way ahead. Manningham looks awful. It is sad to see but he looks like he cannot explode out of his cuts anymore.
RE: Is it possible that both Jernigan and Manningham don't make the team
Both have been pleasant surprises. I think Washington has a spot right now, he has shown continuous improvement and brings something no other Receiver has to the table.
Harris has shown an ability to separate and make big catches to. If he can show he can be a solid ST player, I think he has the edge over Manningham and Holliday.
Now, if we only can find a TE we have a pretty damn good passing threat.
I think it's very possible. I've never been a fan of Jernigan. I hated the pick, and nothing he's done in the past three years has made me change my mind about him. I'd cut him in a New York minute...John Mara be damned.
I hate to say it about a guy who came up big for us in 2011, but Manningham's time has passed. I think the knee injuries have taken their toll...he's just not the same guy. It's a damned shame.
but I think we struck cruz-like UDFA gold again with Washington.
Still early but man his performance thus far does not look like a flash in the pan. The size, the way he attacks the ball in the air, the hands themselves.. And if you read about the kid, his confidence, where his head's at, I don't like betting against those types of hard working, gifted individuals.
one of their rookie draft picks to a torn ACL, so they might not be as loaded as you think.
I never said he was getting cut. I said if he doesn't make the final 53.
Right now they have Nelson, Cobb, Boykin, Adams and a bunch of other guys competing for spots. Janis missed two weeks because of shingles so it is no guarantee that he makes the team. I'm just saying if he doesn't I would love to take a chance on a WR with his size and extremely rare speed/quickness. As we know we need some height in our receiving corps.
If he isn't injured (and we wouldn't want him if he's injured) and he isn't on the final 53, then he would be cut.
I am saying I never said he was DEFINITELY getting cut. I said IF he got cut. Obviously I know not making the team means you are cut, you go through waivers and then go to the PS if the team wants you there and you agree to it.
But there was an article written today that says he has played well but there is a chance he doesn't make the final roster. I hate arguing over semantics. All I said was IF he gets cut I would absolutely look into signing him. That's it. End of story. We don't need to get into the details of why he would get cut or the percentages of him getting cut. There is a chance and I would jump at that opportunity. Obviously it depends on more than just our WR position with who is rounding out the bottom part of our roster as well but that should go without saying as well.
if you hate arguing over semantics, then why are you arguing with yourself? No one else said he definitely would or wouldn't get cut or that he would or wouldn't be an interesting pick up.
4 outside guys - Randle, Beckham, Harris, Washington
2 slot guys - Cruz, Jernigan
The only real issue with that as I see it is the lack of special teams ability from the group.
Harris wouldn't be an "outside guy." He'd back up Cruz in the slot. He's also been working as a gunner on special teams.
I wouldn't get caught up on who plays where. I thought I saw JJ play outside. There are many different personnel packages where guys can rotate in different spots. So I would don't get bogged down on when you can have personnel packages where guys are all over.
weren't saying he could go to the PS without being cut (which wasn't clear in the quoted post), and you clarified that you knew that. No problems on my end.
The reason I say that is because with Gilbride's offense we only had a max of three receivers on the field at most. With McAdoo I can see us going with an empty backfield on occasion with five wide. Now, I'm sure they all wouldn't be WRs but a TE here a RB there but we could still go four wide. With that said, I think five WRs make no sense. Also, our TEs suck so why keep more TEs just to get a complete TE? Keep an extra WR over a shitty TE. I know it isn't likely but it wouldn't surprise me. McAdoo said he would tailor the offense around the talent so therefore it would make sense to keep more WRs. Yes, we need TEs to block but you don't have to keep three TEs. We can keep two and we can use an extra OL for short yardage situations.
is showing "Plaxico" like skills this preseason. Big, rangy with speed and good hands. He has an attitude about intimidating defenders getting off the line and fighting for the ball. Hard to resist when you remember ELI's success with PB. Watching him catch that corner fade TD brought back some great memories
The reason I say that is because with Gilbride's offense we only had a max of three receivers on the field at most. With McAdoo I can see us going with an empty backfield on occasion with five wide. Now, I'm sure they all wouldn't be WRs but a TE here a RB there but we could still go four wide. With that said, I think five WRs make no sense. Also, our TEs suck so why keep more TEs just to get a complete TE? Keep an extra WR over a shitty TE. I know it isn't likely but it wouldn't surprise me. McAdoo said he would tailor the offense around the talent so therefore it would make sense to keep more WRs. Yes, we need TEs to block but you don't have to keep three TEs. We can keep two and we can use an extra OL for short yardage situations.
I think with the talent we have and coming off an "our offense was broken" year -- we need to keep 7WRs. Holliday has too much potential to be cut. Need the 7.
We will need to put the 53 man roster together to see if it is possible because it just isn't WRs battling the WRs. Do we keel 2 QBs? 2 FB? Etc.
I think this is the "typical" offensive roster breakdown:
3 QB
5 RB (1 FB)
6 WR
3 TE
9 OL
So if you want to keep a 7th WR, there are plenty of ways to create the extra spot. The obvious choice is to drop a QB, but they could also drop an OL and still have reasonable depth there. Or go with 3 TE/FB types.
Washington's physical profile and big guy skillset makes him a more unique player which gives him a slight edge over Harris imo. So if I had to pick between the two, I think Washington is more likely to make the team.
But Harris has supposedly been the most consistent WR on the entire team in camp, tough to cut the guy when he is showing that kind of ability. I really don't know if he can keep both. Luckily, we have a few more weeks to figure it out.
RE: and i doubt that happens though because i dont think
If Harris can be a decent gunner, he will definitely make the team. They need more good gunners to go with Zach Bowman, and he looks like the only one of the WRs that can contribute there. JJ certainly can't. Harris can also return kicks and punts, so he's the real deal for special teams.
Washington has kick-off and punt return experience in college, and with his hands, size, and speed, he ought to get a shot at the return jobs this summer. Unless he comes apart down the stretch, he should make the team regardless. He's the biggest receiver they have (the long awaited Plax replacement?) and has too much potential to ignore after what he's shown so far this summer.
It would be criminal to dump either of these guys in favor of the chronic under-achiever Jernigan or the obviously diminished Manningham. However, JJ is still not completely out of the picture.
It currently appears that the 6th and last WR spot (Cruz, Randle, and Beckham are the first three) will probably come down to JJ or Preston Parker, and it could go either way based on what happens in the next three weeks. There are arguments for and against each. I think Parker is a little bit ahead right now based on both history in the league and better special teams ability and play. But it is still close and definitely could change. And Talley is still sort of in the picture, too, albeit farther back.
As for Manningham, I was really happy to have him back, but it is becoming very apparent that he is nowhere near what he once was, and he probably doesn't make the team. However, if he doesn't catch on elsewhere, they should keep his number handy just in case the injury bug strikes the WRs and they need him down the road somewhere.
RE: RE: and i doubt that happens though because i dont think
They may keep only 5 LBs. I think we keep at least 6 WRs and 7 if they think Holliday can be a game changer on punt returns. If OB3 shows something on punt returns then Holliday and Parker are gone.
Reese is pissed off Coughlin took so long to start using him.
Maybe Coughlin's pissed off Reese drafted him. I know I am.
Not starting this again but JJ is a Coughlin, Sullivan and Reese guy. Everybody was on board with that pick, I remember pre-draft discussions and threads on here about JJ being a great fit for the Giants after SS injury/contract issues. I think that was one of the reasons Mara singled him out last year.
I think it's very possible. I've never been a fan of Jernigan. I hated the pick, and nothing he's done in the past three years has made me change my mind about him. I'd cut him in a New York minute...John Mara be damned.
I hate to say it about a guy who came up big for us in 2011, but Manningham's time has passed. I think the knee injuries have taken their toll...he's just not the same guy. It's a damned shame.
Agree completely with Klaatu - Jernigan is way too inconsistent and cannot stay healthy. Sadly, Manninham is done.
I'd like to see both Harris and Washington included in final 53 - also think Giants should take a serious look at Travis Harvey - has consistently gotten open in practice and preseason and caught everything thrown his way.
One on one move he put on Prince in practice was best move of camp.
If Harris can be a decent gunner, he will definitely make the team. They need more good gunners to go with Zach Bowman, and he looks like the only one of the WRs that can contribute there. JJ certainly can't. Harris can also return kicks and punts, so he's the real deal for special teams.
Washington has kick-off and punt return experience in college, and with his hands, size, and speed, he ought to get a shot at the return jobs this summer. Unless he comes apart down the stretch, he should make the team regardless. He's the biggest receiver they have (the long awaited Plax replacement?) and has too much potential to ignore after what he's shown so far this summer.
It would be criminal to dump either of these guys in favor of the chronic under-achiever Jernigan or the obviously diminished Manningham. However, JJ is still not completely out of the picture.
It currently appears that the 6th and last WR spot (Cruz, Randle, and Beckham are the first three) will probably come down to JJ or Preston Parker, and it could go either way based on what happens in the next three weeks. There are arguments for and against each. I think Parker is a little bit ahead right now based on both history in the league and better special teams ability and play. But it is still close and definitely could change. And Talley is still sort of in the picture, too, albeit farther back.
As for Manningham, I was really happy to have him back, but it is becoming very apparent that he is nowhere near what he once was, and he probably doesn't make the team. However, if he doesn't catch on elsewhere, they should keep his number handy just in case the injury bug strikes the WRs and they need him down the road somewhere.
JJ needs to go along with Manningham - Harris and Washington stay - you forgot Travis Harvey who has performed better in camp and preseason games than Parker.
1. A complete meltdown
2. Injury
3. Absolutely no value on specials
Even with number three I think we have seen how we need him on offense that number three could get overlooked.
As far as Harris goes I think he has his foot in the door but specials may be a little more important for him.
We usually keep six. I think we kept five last year but I also don't think that is the norm. Who is definitely making this team? Cruz, Randle and Beckham. After that I think Jernigan still makes it. That leaves us with two spots. Has anybody else been better than Harris and Washington? I think not.
2 slot guys - Cruz, Jernigan
The only real issue with that as I see it is the lack of special teams ability from the group.
I hope the link works - ( New Window )
Then I read about the practice he had yesterday against the first team defense. This guy will not be cut. No way.
As for Harris, I thought he was pretty impressive in the Bills game. Didn't do much against the Steelers. I don't think the guy gets cut. If he doesn't make the team he may have to get "injured."
I never said he was getting cut. I said if he doesn't make the final 53.
Right now they have Nelson, Cobb, Boykin, Adams and a bunch of other guys competing for spots. Janis missed two weeks because of shingles so it is no guarantee that he makes the team. I'm just saying if he doesn't I would love to take a chance on a WR with his size and extremely rare speed/quickness. As we know we need some height in our receiving corps.
2 slot guys - Cruz, Jernigan
The only real issue with that as I see it is the lack of special teams ability from the group.
Harris wouldn't be an "outside guy." He'd back up Cruz in the slot. He's also been working as a gunner on special teams.
He does have small hands. He needs to work on his route running with his size/speed combo I'm not worried about him getting separation. It is an excel spreadsheet so I think you need access to it by having someone send it to you.
If that is the competition then Harris is way ahead. Manningham looks awful. It is sad to see but he looks like he cannot explode out of his cuts anymore.
Yes, because I'm not sure Jernigan is any more valuable on special teams than Harris or Washington.
I don't even think it is a question at this point. The answer is no. He got his surgery like two years ago, I think.
3,207 yards on 189 receptions (17.0 avg.) with 31 touchdowns in two years.
Herr is the link to his most recent article.
Link - ( New Window )
Harris has shown an ability to separate and make big catches to. If he can show he can be a solid ST player, I think he has the edge over Manningham and Holliday.
Now, if we only can find a TE we have a pretty damn good passing threat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1bPtlw4Tw
I think it's very possible. I've never been a fan of Jernigan. I hated the pick, and nothing he's done in the past three years has made me change my mind about him. I'd cut him in a New York minute...John Mara be damned.
I hate to say it about a guy who came up big for us in 2011, but Manningham's time has passed. I think the knee injuries have taken their toll...he's just not the same guy. It's a damned shame.
Still early but man his performance thus far does not look like a flash in the pan. The size, the way he attacks the ball in the air, the hands themselves.. And if you read about the kid, his confidence, where his head's at, I don't like betting against those types of hard working, gifted individuals.
Here's hoping..
Quote:
one of their rookie draft picks to a torn ACL, so they might not be as loaded as you think.
I never said he was getting cut. I said if he doesn't make the final 53.
Right now they have Nelson, Cobb, Boykin, Adams and a bunch of other guys competing for spots. Janis missed two weeks because of shingles so it is no guarantee that he makes the team. I'm just saying if he doesn't I would love to take a chance on a WR with his size and extremely rare speed/quickness. As we know we need some height in our receiving corps.
If he isn't injured (and we wouldn't want him if he's injured) and he isn't on the final 53, then he would be cut.
Quote:
4 outside guys - Randle, Beckham, Harris, Washington
2 slot guys - Cruz, Jernigan
The only real issue with that as I see it is the lack of special teams ability from the group.
Harris wouldn't be an "outside guy." He'd back up Cruz in the slot. He's also been working as a gunner on special teams.
I wouldn't get caught up on who plays where. I thought I saw JJ play outside. There are many different personnel packages where guys can rotate in different spots. So I would don't get bogged down on when you can have personnel packages where guys are all over.
I was surprised when one of the beat-writers also mentioned he was running good routes as well. Would not expect that.
Looks like Mr. Washington will be on everybody's eyes this weekend...
I think with the talent we have and coming off an "our offense was broken" year -- we need to keep 7WRs. Holliday has too much potential to be cut. Need the 7.
See how that combination works.
I think this is the "typical" offensive roster breakdown:
3 QB
5 RB (1 FB)
6 WR
3 TE
9 OL
So if you want to keep a 7th WR, there are plenty of ways to create the extra spot. The obvious choice is to drop a QB, but they could also drop an OL and still have reasonable depth there. Or go with 3 TE/FB types.
But Harris has supposedly been the most consistent WR on the entire team in camp, tough to cut the guy when he is showing that kind of ability. I really don't know if he can keep both. Luckily, we have a few more weeks to figure it out.
I'd be surprised if they keep 2 FBs. Sounds like a better chance they don't keep any.
I can easily see:
2 QB
7 WR
9 OL
4 RB
1 FB
2 TE
Total: 24
9 DL
6 LB
6 CB
5 S
Total: 26
3 Specials (basically 4 if Holliday is 1 of the WR)
The question of who returns punts/kicks is clearly relevant.
Really?
Maybe Coughlin's pissed off Reese drafted him. I know I am.
Washington has kick-off and punt return experience in college, and with his hands, size, and speed, he ought to get a shot at the return jobs this summer. Unless he comes apart down the stretch, he should make the team regardless. He's the biggest receiver they have (the long awaited Plax replacement?) and has too much potential to ignore after what he's shown so far this summer.
It would be criminal to dump either of these guys in favor of the chronic under-achiever Jernigan or the obviously diminished Manningham. However, JJ is still not completely out of the picture.
It currently appears that the 6th and last WR spot (Cruz, Randle, and Beckham are the first three) will probably come down to JJ or Preston Parker, and it could go either way based on what happens in the next three weeks. There are arguments for and against each. I think Parker is a little bit ahead right now based on both history in the league and better special teams ability and play. But it is still close and definitely could change. And Talley is still sort of in the picture, too, albeit farther back.
As for Manningham, I was really happy to have him back, but it is becoming very apparent that he is nowhere near what he once was, and he probably doesn't make the team. However, if he doesn't catch on elsewhere, they should keep his number handy just in case the injury bug strikes the WRs and they need him down the road somewhere.
Quote:
You would be able to dress two FBs.
I'd be surprised if they keep 2 FBs. Sounds like a better chance they don't keep any.
I can easily see:
2 QB
7 WR
9 OL
4 RB
1 FB
2 TE
Total: 24
9 DL
6 LB
6 CB
5 S
Total: 26
3 Specials (basically 4 if Holliday is 1 of the WR)
Look for 3 Tight Ends, not because they are worth it but its clear they being used heavily by the new OC.
Probably have to lose a WR or CB, whomever contributes least on Specials.
I think they both make it.
They may keep only 5 LBs. I think we keep at least 6 WRs and 7 if they think Holliday can be a game changer on punt returns. If OB3 shows something on punt returns then Holliday and Parker are gone.
Wide Receivers - ( New Window )
Quote:
You would be able to dress two FBs.
I'd be surprised if they keep 2 FBs. Sounds like a better chance they don't keep any.
I can easily see:
2 QB
7 WR
9 OL
4 RB
1 FB
2 TE
Total: 24
9 DL
6 LB
6 CB
5 S
Total: 26
3 Specials (basically 4 if Holliday is 1 of the WR)
You're offense adds up to 25
Quote:
Reese is pissed off Coughlin took so long to start using him.
Maybe Coughlin's pissed off Reese drafted him. I know I am.
Not starting this again but JJ is a Coughlin, Sullivan and Reese guy. Everybody was on board with that pick, I remember pre-draft discussions and threads on here about JJ being a great fit for the Giants after SS injury/contract issues. I think that was one of the reasons Mara singled him out last year.
But maybe they ought to try Washington on the return unit, seeing as to how he can do
this - ( New Window )
Quote:
But Harris and Washington do?
I think it's very possible. I've never been a fan of Jernigan. I hated the pick, and nothing he's done in the past three years has made me change my mind about him. I'd cut him in a New York minute...John Mara be damned.
I hate to say it about a guy who came up big for us in 2011, but Manningham's time has passed. I think the knee injuries have taken their toll...he's just not the same guy. It's a damned shame.
Agree completely with Klaatu - Jernigan is way too inconsistent and cannot stay healthy. Sadly, Manninham is done.
I'd like to see both Harris and Washington included in final 53 - also think Giants should take a serious look at Travis Harvey - has consistently gotten open in practice and preseason and caught everything thrown his way.
One on one move he put on Prince in practice was best move of camp.
Might as well give the young guys a chance if they are performing in live action.
Washington has kick-off and punt return experience in college, and with his hands, size, and speed, he ought to get a shot at the return jobs this summer. Unless he comes apart down the stretch, he should make the team regardless. He's the biggest receiver they have (the long awaited Plax replacement?) and has too much potential to ignore after what he's shown so far this summer.
It would be criminal to dump either of these guys in favor of the chronic under-achiever Jernigan or the obviously diminished Manningham. However, JJ is still not completely out of the picture.
It currently appears that the 6th and last WR spot (Cruz, Randle, and Beckham are the first three) will probably come down to JJ or Preston Parker, and it could go either way based on what happens in the next three weeks. There are arguments for and against each. I think Parker is a little bit ahead right now based on both history in the league and better special teams ability and play. But it is still close and definitely could change. And Talley is still sort of in the picture, too, albeit farther back.
As for Manningham, I was really happy to have him back, but it is becoming very apparent that he is nowhere near what he once was, and he probably doesn't make the team. However, if he doesn't catch on elsewhere, they should keep his number handy just in case the injury bug strikes the WRs and they need him down the road somewhere.
JJ needs to go along with Manningham - Harris and Washington stay - you forgot Travis Harvey who has performed better in camp and preseason games than Parker.
Might as well give the young guys a chance if they are performing in live action.
COMPLETELY AGREE!