not trying depress people, I'm trying to be objective.
Pros...I think we have the best defense in the division. I like our running game more than Conner because I love Jennings and have more faith that Williams will develop as a pass protector (though it will take time). And we do have Eli. The OL will be better than last year (it can't be worse).
Cons... major questions on the OL still. But what actually concerns me more - as I point out - is I don't think we are as "loaded" at the receiving skill positions as some think. Beckham missing OTAs and all of camp is a HUGE negative. He can't make that time up. And it's been assumed from day 1 that Cruz is a great fit for the WCO. Maybe he is; but maybe he isn't. We don't know. And Randle? Who the heck knows? Our TE's? They scare no one.
Running game plus no turnovers to key our season Â
I think Cruz is doubled leaving Eli with limited talent to throw to, at least early in the year. Reese has not drafted too well and it will show. Run and do not turn it over early in year til team gets the offense.
let me just say that I love the format of the game preview. I should echo others' comments that Conner Hughes does a great job writing about the Giants for the site, and I love getting Eric's insight wrapped in there too.
My big question is regarding Damontre Moore. I agree that the time has come to give him a chance against the first string offense to see what he can do. Especially in passing situations, where Kiwi is too frequently unable to generate pressure. So my question is this: is there reason to believe he is going to receive that playing time? I haven't seen anywhere (although I've been unable to follow as closely as I typically like to) indication that he's going to get starter time. Can you verify whether that was wishful thinking on Conner's part, or something he has insight about and how?
That said, if Beatty can return to 2012 form and Richburg can play somewhere, I think the line and the running game will be solid, because like you, Eric, I am enamored of Andre Williams. If he can learn to pass block, I think he can be a 1500 yard rusher.
As for the receivers, Cruz has proven himself over and over again. He'll be fine, and Beckhum will produce once he's back in the line-up. TE's are a major weakness.
This bad. Time spent so far has been to see who can play OL, RB, TE and backup QB. Some have shown they are ineffective or unreliable or displayed weaknesses that either can or can't be corrected. This is to get down to the final 53 (or whatever the number is). So the O so far has looked like crap. This next pre-season game may be more of the same. Have to remember: this is not about learning whether Eli can throw or Cruz can catch. These are not yet real bullets.
Did that extra preseason game cloud the realization it's actually only the 2nd preseason game?
Sure, i have some concerns about positions too but this delusion in the media about the Giants sense of urgency to look great is crazy. Week 2 of the preseason has yet to even be played while that HOF scrimmage was a full week earlier than usual.
We all have some concerns but the media really needs to lay off the bowl of sugar and calm down.
Right now I care less about playmakers and more about the O-Line. Â
So I agree with Eric that Will Beatty will be the guy to watch tonight, and, yeah, I don't expect him to look like an All-Pro at this stage of the game, but I hope he doesn't look completely ineffective, either. Also, I'd like to see some improvement from the rest of the starters - Schwartz, Walton, Mosley, Pugh - time to start gelling.
I suppose I should also include Adrien Robinson along with Donnell and Davis, but the only thing I'm expecting from the MIA of Tight Ends is more whiffs.
Shame on you Eric - for biting down on the Giants - when the truth is that you really can't tell nothing about how this team will do right now - You yourself have counseled people that it is preseason and that the team is on working on a few things in the first couple of games. That - and you don't even know what the first team and the offense looks like yet.
They just finished installing the offense this past week - there is basically a new language out there that the vets are getting used to and the final version of the Oline hasn't even played together yet.
Get a grip and have a little patience because it's clear that it's going to be a bumpy ride - and that will probably be true at least through the first 2 regular season games.
I don't buy that there is no talent on the offense
We have very good skill players at both RB and WR
Hyno is a solid FB - maybe one of the best in the NFL
We haven't had more than a partly adequate TE in a long time - so stop moaning about what you never had - forget about Robinson - the kid has nothing between his ears - the other two Vets are going to be our tight ends - and they won't be spectacular
The real game is the front line - that group has to gel - and they need time - and preseason won't be enough time - Beatty is only going to get a few snaps tonight - just pray he doesn't have a relapse - THe Oline is improved
Patience it's preseason - I actually don't give a crap if the Giants stink it up in preseason - I want them to be hitting their stride in Game 3 -- and then plow ahead
took me back to the first week of the 2011 season and the loss to Washington, right down to Eric's pessimism and his comment, "just being objective".
My view, looks like it could be another SB year. Why? Running backs-Jennings, our commentators say, except for the 73 yard touchdown run, we showed nothing. Oh yeah, but that did happen. Andre Williams showed nothing, oh yeah. Next we'll hear his arms are too short. Victor Cruz has to prove himself, did we hear that in 07, 1500 yards and three years later, new Giant record,consistently strong performances,he has to prove himself, we just can't count on Victor. Harris and Washington, unproven, JJ, just a bust after two preseason games,and so on. Eli, finished and prone to throwing interceptions, maybe should stick to rap. An objective rational view of the WRs is that there are two to three proven, established receivers, and two to three breakout candidates. Eli, an all time top 20, durable, clutch, QB, had some problems with a slow developing, complex, offense and reluctant receivers last year. Sorry doomsayers, but don't expect a repeat of that. I could go on, but will content myself with saying that this whole team, both the defense strong last year, and the weaker offense, has been renewed with a careful, reasoned thrust, by sensible, effective management, which has let the underperformers and less committed move on and retained the core. Like 11, here on BBI, we get the false sophistication of a negative, so-called "down to earth" perspective. Real objectivity means balancing the negative with the positive.
As is no doubt evident,when I read Sporting News, Athlon, Lindy's and the lot, all pushing Philly, Dallas, or whomever, where the Giants are routinely discounted, like in 07 and 11,I get very frustrated. And then when I see this stuff here, I ask, is this really a Jints fan site?
to the article. I don't quite see it that doom and gloom especially since it's preseason and we have yet to game plan. Installing a new system you are trying to do things and rep things methodically. So I am not going to get on them until the 3rd game once we game plan, install, and then have a few games to add concepts and take things out. If we still fail to do much we have our answer. However, way to early to get negative.
Have not showed us much on offense or defense but that's always the case with this team.
Things I want to see:
Can Eli really be a roll out QB, I'm afraid the answer is a sure No! Eli on the move scares the hell out of me. Is this offense really much different than the old one not much difference so far except for the shorter throws.
Question can Cruz and Randle bring fear to a defense right now the answer is no. Is JJ capable of doing what he did at the end of last season right now no answer is still correct.
TE's we have not had a very good TE in many years but we did have a blocking TE. Robinson went from the darling of OTA's to a forgotten man how and why strange. If he is the best option why is he not being used so that you can just say enough he is not what we wanted him to be goodbye. Now in defense of the TEs they have not been given many chances to show much as blockers or receivers so far.
Can the DL get to the QB given the short time that most teams now get the ball out of the QB's hands against our DL. Tonight will tell us all pretty much where this DL is for the future.
Who is going to be our kicker it's a tight battle that's youth, stronger leg and less money may become the deciding factor.
Doesn't matter who the receivers and tight ends are. When are people ever going to learn? If Eli has time, he will make the receivers and tightends house hold names. How many receiver turnovers have we had? How many no name tight ends have we gone into a season with? It happens almost every year. If Eli doesn't have time to throw the ball, the season is over. If he does, we are going to the playoffs. Its that simple.
with Jernigan, Randle, and Cruz as my starting group initially. Harris, Washington, and Beckum is some serious firepower on the bench. Jernigan seems to know what he's doing at this point and is likely a huge upgrade over what Nicks did last year alone.
To Eli not turning the ball over
Eli needs to get comfortable with the new short passing game being installed
Eli needs multiple reps throwing the ball and the receivers need multiple reps running their routes and getting synced up with Eli on route and sight adjustments
Eli needs to get in a rhythm throwing the ball which requires multiple pass attempts in a row imo
Yet TC wants to run the ball
Lol
If the O appears dysfunctional it starts with the coaching staff and I give the new OC a pass
TC needs to step aside and give the OC free rein to break in the WCO without being constrained by TCs old school offensive ideas that have contributed so strongly to the O being broken IMO.
The Giants 1s have played a few series and a quarter of football. Its essentially week 2 of preseason heading into tonight. Ive actually seen a lot of positives. The interior of the line has looked pretty damn good, even Mosley and that really should be our biggest concern on offense right now.
With a complete new system installed and guys being injured or out Im not surprised the offense has looked a little sluggish or off in a couple series and a quarter so far. The defense might be the best under Coughlin yet and the running game looks muched improved. Ill be a lot more concerned if everyone is still not on the same page a couple weeks from now, but right now Im good.
though somewhat concerned about pass rush, I think this is best defense in division. I also like our running game.
But Cruz has to prove to me he is a good fit for this offense. Randle? How can anyone be confident of him at this point? He keeps saying this offense is easier but he and Eli just miscommunicated again in practice this week, and like last year in Chicago, Zach Bowman took it in for six points. Has he been tearing it up at camp? No.
Beckham? He's a month behind.
Jernigan? Again, has anyone heard/seen a lot of positives about him this offseason?
Tight ends are a mess.
Other teams aren't shaking in their boots about this group.
That the quickest way to improve a team is to improve its ST
I think we are well on our way to substantial ST improvement
The new DBs and LBs are more athletic and will likely give our kick coverage units a big boost from last years dismal display
Our KOs and FG kicking may improve if we go with youth
Our returners are likely much improved over last year
An improved ST along with a top notch D will carry this team until all the change on O is absorbed
Eli just needs NOT to turn the ball over and TC will rely on our new improved RBs to carry the O until a comfort level in the new passing game is achieved imo
seems to be under a dark cloud consistently. Some of that appears to be rubbing off on Eric. In reality, it is too early to forecast where this team will finish this year. I like lot of the new personnel. I assume it will take some time for all of the new talent to jell, However, barring a plethora of injuries, when it's all over I choose to believe this team will be in the thick of it.
though somewhat concerned about pass rush, I think this is best defense in division. I also like our running game.
But Cruz has to prove to me he is a good fit for this offense. Randle? How can anyone be confident of him at this point? He keeps saying this offense is easier but he and Eli just miscommunicated again in practice this week, and like last year in Chicago, Zach Bowman took it in for six points. Has he been tearing it up at camp? No.
Beckham? He's a month behind.
Jernigan? Again, has anyone heard/seen a lot of positives about him this offseason?
Tight ends are a mess.
Other teams aren't shaking in their boots about this group.
The teams aren't shaking in their boots because they don't know what this group can do. We are not perfect offensively that's for sure. We have question marks, but we don't know, once we start scheming what this OC can do this this group. So sure, no teams are shaking, but we haven't shown schematically what we can do. This offense is a question mark in terms of what we can do because it's a new system and new OC is going to be calling the plays.
Let's wait and see how we game plan and see this scheme before we dub them as a shit show or not.
How isn't a WR with really good hands and the ability to get Â
Is there a scheme that wouldn't be a good fit for? I thought he already established himself as one of the better WRs in the league? Why are we going backwards?
no reason to show anything special in psssing game now..... Â
Eric called us a team in transition several years ago when we eventually won the Bowl.
Further, what team does not have holes in today's NFL?
Why would anyone expect, here on August 16, that this team won't be very competitive come October/November?
If Eli gets his head out of his ass, and becomes the leader we all expect him to be, our WRs are good enough.
see Cruz's skill set in this offense. I think the short concept stuff, get the ball in his hands, head up will be fun to see. I was worried at the end of the year how he would do outside the previous system.
How many times have we gone into a season with a no-name Jake Ballard, Kevin Boss, Martellus Bennett? How many receiver turnovers have we had? Larry Donnell at least looks like he can block somewhat which is all I really care about. Keep Eli upright and he will find his targets.
Completely agree that it is WAY to early for panic at this point. This team and offense has barely even played a game yet. The receiver unit looks like it has plenty of talent to me. Will they fulfill it? We'll see but they certainly aren't lacking for talent.
about the receiver group then the running back unit. We could sustain a couple injuries at receiver and likely still have talent there. If we lose Jennings, Im pretty nervous about the backs.
I just think it should have been expected that there were going to be plenty of question marks with all the new faces and brand new system being implemented. This shouldn't really be a surprise and I just think its too early to gage one way or the other.
Ha - That is exactly what I was thinking when I read that.
This is a 7 win team. Tops.
Pros...I think we have the best defense in the division. I like our running game more than Conner because I love Jennings and have more faith that Williams will develop as a pass protector (though it will take time). And we do have Eli. The OL will be better than last year (it can't be worse).
Cons... major questions on the OL still. But what actually concerns me more - as I point out - is I don't think we are as "loaded" at the receiving skill positions as some think. Beckham missing OTAs and all of camp is a HUGE negative. He can't make that time up. And it's been assumed from day 1 that Cruz is a great fit for the WCO. Maybe he is; but maybe he isn't. We don't know. And Randle? Who the heck knows? Our TE's? They scare no one.
TommytheElephant : 10:06 pm : link : reply
ha..can only look upwards from here..
My big question is regarding Damontre Moore. I agree that the time has come to give him a chance against the first string offense to see what he can do. Especially in passing situations, where Kiwi is too frequently unable to generate pressure. So my question is this: is there reason to believe he is going to receive that playing time? I haven't seen anywhere (although I've been unable to follow as closely as I typically like to) indication that he's going to get starter time. Can you verify whether that was wishful thinking on Conner's part, or something he has insight about and how?
Thanks!
That said, if Beatty can return to 2012 form and Richburg can play somewhere, I think the line and the running game will be solid, because like you, Eric, I am enamored of Andre Williams. If he can learn to pass block, I think he can be a 1500 yard rusher.
As for the receivers, Cruz has proven himself over and over again. He'll be fine, and Beckhum will produce once he's back in the line-up. TE's are a major weakness.
Sure, i have some concerns about positions too but this delusion in the media about the Giants sense of urgency to look great is crazy. Week 2 of the preseason has yet to even be played while that HOF scrimmage was a full week earlier than usual.
We all have some concerns but the media really needs to lay off the bowl of sugar and calm down.
They just finished installing the offense this past week - there is basically a new language out there that the vets are getting used to and the final version of the Oline hasn't even played together yet.
Get a grip and have a little patience because it's clear that it's going to be a bumpy ride - and that will probably be true at least through the first 2 regular season games.
I don't buy that there is no talent on the offense
We have very good skill players at both RB and WR
Hyno is a solid FB - maybe one of the best in the NFL
We haven't had more than a partly adequate TE in a long time - so stop moaning about what you never had - forget about Robinson - the kid has nothing between his ears - the other two Vets are going to be our tight ends - and they won't be spectacular
The real game is the front line - that group has to gel - and they need time - and preseason won't be enough time - Beatty is only going to get a few snaps tonight - just pray he doesn't have a relapse - THe Oline is improved
Patience it's preseason - I actually don't give a crap if the Giants stink it up in preseason - I want them to be hitting their stride in Game 3 -- and then plow ahead
Go GIants - All Year Baby!!!
I'm 49. Have been a Giants fan for decades. I can't remember a worse group of TEs.
My view, looks like it could be another SB year. Why? Running backs-Jennings, our commentators say, except for the 73 yard touchdown run, we showed nothing. Oh yeah, but that did happen. Andre Williams showed nothing, oh yeah. Next we'll hear his arms are too short. Victor Cruz has to prove himself, did we hear that in 07, 1500 yards and three years later, new Giant record,consistently strong performances,he has to prove himself, we just can't count on Victor. Harris and Washington, unproven, JJ, just a bust after two preseason games,and so on. Eli, finished and prone to throwing interceptions, maybe should stick to rap. An objective rational view of the WRs is that there are two to three proven, established receivers, and two to three breakout candidates. Eli, an all time top 20, durable, clutch, QB, had some problems with a slow developing, complex, offense and reluctant receivers last year. Sorry doomsayers, but don't expect a repeat of that. I could go on, but will content myself with saying that this whole team, both the defense strong last year, and the weaker offense, has been renewed with a careful, reasoned thrust, by sensible, effective management, which has let the underperformers and less committed move on and retained the core. Like 11, here on BBI, we get the false sophistication of a negative, so-called "down to earth" perspective. Real objectivity means balancing the negative with the positive.
As is no doubt evident,when I read Sporting News, Athlon, Lindy's and the lot, all pushing Philly, Dallas, or whomever, where the Giants are routinely discounted, like in 07 and 11,I get very frustrated. And then when I see this stuff here, I ask, is this really a Jints fan site?
Things I want to see:
Can Eli really be a roll out QB, I'm afraid the answer is a sure No! Eli on the move scares the hell out of me. Is this offense really much different than the old one not much difference so far except for the shorter throws.
Question can Cruz and Randle bring fear to a defense right now the answer is no. Is JJ capable of doing what he did at the end of last season right now no answer is still correct.
TE's we have not had a very good TE in many years but we did have a blocking TE. Robinson went from the darling of OTA's to a forgotten man how and why strange. If he is the best option why is he not being used so that you can just say enough he is not what we wanted him to be goodbye. Now in defense of the TEs they have not been given many chances to show much as blockers or receivers so far.
Can the DL get to the QB given the short time that most teams now get the ball out of the QB's hands against our DL. Tonight will tell us all pretty much where this DL is for the future.
Who is going to be our kicker it's a tight battle that's youth, stronger leg and less money may become the deciding factor.
Eli needs to get comfortable with the new short passing game being installed
Eli needs multiple reps throwing the ball and the receivers need multiple reps running their routes and getting synced up with Eli on route and sight adjustments
Eli needs to get in a rhythm throwing the ball which requires multiple pass attempts in a row imo
Yet TC wants to run the ball
Lol
If the O appears dysfunctional it starts with the coaching staff and I give the new OC a pass
TC needs to step aside and give the OC free rein to break in the WCO without being constrained by TCs old school offensive ideas that have contributed so strongly to the O being broken IMO.
With a complete new system installed and guys being injured or out Im not surprised the offense has looked a little sluggish or off in a couple series and a quarter so far. The defense might be the best under Coughlin yet and the running game looks muched improved. Ill be a lot more concerned if everyone is still not on the same page a couple weeks from now, but right now Im good.
But Cruz has to prove to me he is a good fit for this offense. Randle? How can anyone be confident of him at this point? He keeps saying this offense is easier but he and Eli just miscommunicated again in practice this week, and like last year in Chicago, Zach Bowman took it in for six points. Has he been tearing it up at camp? No.
Beckham? He's a month behind.
Jernigan? Again, has anyone heard/seen a lot of positives about him this offseason?
Tight ends are a mess.
Other teams aren't shaking in their boots about this group.
I think we are well on our way to substantial ST improvement
The new DBs and LBs are more athletic and will likely give our kick coverage units a big boost from last years dismal display
Our KOs and FG kicking may improve if we go with youth
Our returners are likely much improved over last year
An improved ST along with a top notch D will carry this team until all the change on O is absorbed
Eli just needs NOT to turn the ball over and TC will rely on our new improved RBs to carry the O until a comfort level in the new passing game is achieved imo
But Cruz has to prove to me he is a good fit for this offense. Randle? How can anyone be confident of him at this point? He keeps saying this offense is easier but he and Eli just miscommunicated again in practice this week, and like last year in Chicago, Zach Bowman took it in for six points. Has he been tearing it up at camp? No.
Beckham? He's a month behind.
Jernigan? Again, has anyone heard/seen a lot of positives about him this offseason?
Tight ends are a mess.
Other teams aren't shaking in their boots about this group.
The teams aren't shaking in their boots because they don't know what this group can do. We are not perfect offensively that's for sure. We have question marks, but we don't know, once we start scheming what this OC can do this this group. So sure, no teams are shaking, but we haven't shown schematically what we can do. This offense is a question mark in terms of what we can do because it's a new system and new OC is going to be calling the plays.
Let's wait and see how we game plan and see this scheme before we dub them as a shit show or not.
Is there a scheme that wouldn't be a good fit for? I thought he already established himself as one of the better WRs in the league? Why are we going backwards?
I believe Beatty and Pugh will play better......and not having any turnstiles at guard.....can only help.....
But the key......we do not need to be faster then the bear......just faster than the cowboys....redskins and eagles......
Maybe by playoffs.....the passing game hopefully is humming
Good grief.
We'll have to see.
As for pass rush I agree and am worried too.
Further, what team does not have holes in today's NFL?
Why would anyone expect, here on August 16, that this team won't be very competitive come October/November?
If Eli gets his head out of his ass, and becomes the leader we all expect him to be, our WRs are good enough.
A QB can't will guys to be good players.
Completely agree that it is WAY to early for panic at this point. This team and offense has barely even played a game yet. The receiver unit looks like it has plenty of talent to me. Will they fulfill it? We'll see but they certainly aren't lacking for talent.