it just seems like too many things have to break our way on the offensive line of us to get back to having a good offense. Way too many potential points of failure.
questions are on the OL. How much talent is there, and how quickly can they gel? Also, can Beatty play like he did in 2012, and is he recovered from his broken leg? I guess we'll get some indications tonight.
but realistically I see Giants ceiling this year as 6-8 wins. Last year we were a four win team that managed to win seven games in a very ugly way. The Giants core strength has always been OL/DL and I see both as below average now.
Let the season begin. Maybe we can coach our way into the playoffs.
I see 10 wins.....a top 5 defense.....and an improving offense.
He makes some valid points but then he swings and misses at a lot more. Things like this:
Quote:
My personal hunch is that this offense will still be a work in progress when the season starts and will be running more smoothly in November than it runs in September.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
Also said the Giants had no chance of making the playoffs in 2011. He then went on to predict the Giants losing each week in the playoffs. Fuck Graziano.
the Giants lost a disinterested Nicks, a bad fit TE and 3-4 OL who shouldn't have been in the NFL.
Replaced them with Beckham, ?, and FA/#2 draft choices. Except for TE which remains a question mark, I think the talent has been improved across the board. Depth has been improved as well.
Just because we haven't seen the whole package in pre-season, doesn't mean that it's not there. Eli was 6-7 with quick passes vs the Bills. Both Nassib and Painter drove to scores in the two minute offense. Running game had an impressive drive vs the Bills and a big play vs the Steelers.
And have since last year ended. We are woefully bad at a few spots, too thin at others and our OL is a disaster waiting to happen.
Losing three of your top defenders will hurt, no matter how many CBs we brought in. The OL "fix" is already junked, Charles Brown, John Jerry and J.D. Walton....blech, Beatty is a gimpy 29 year old LT who is way up and way down and aside from Schwartz and Pugh, huge questions on the starting OL and little depth to count on. Charles Brown is awful, as is Jerry and Walton starting is not exactly something to be excited about.
I don't see much more than a 7 win season, and that may be wishful.
I'm hoping the new scheme in which Eli gets rid of the ball
He makes some valid points but then he swings and misses at a lot more. Things like this:
Quote:
My personal hunch is that this offense will still be a work in progress when the season starts and will be running more smoothly in November than it runs in September.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
Also said the Giants had no chance of making the playoffs in 2011. He then went on to predict the Giants losing each week in the playoffs. Fuck Graziano.
Yup. Predicted they would finish in last place in the division. And was nasty about it if I recall when readers argue the point.
Eli didn't even get drafted last night in my 12 team FF league. It's scary when the likes of Carson Palmer are going before Eli. The perception out there is that we're going to stink. Time will tell.
but I have to question the judgment of anyone who thinks this DL is more of a concern than the OL. I think the DL, and the D as a whole, will be the strength of this team.
And have since last year ended. We are woefully bad at a few spots, too thin at others and our OL is a disaster waiting to happen.
Losing three of your top defenders will hurt, no matter how many CBs we brought in. The OL "fix" is already junked, Charles Brown, John Jerry and J.D. Walton....blech, Beatty is a gimpy 29 year old LT who is way up and way down and aside from Schwartz and Pugh, huge questions on the starting OL and little depth to count on. Charles Brown is awful, as is Jerry and Walton starting is not exactly something to be excited about.
I don't see much more than a 7 win season, and that may be wishful.
He makes some valid points but then he swings and misses at a lot more. Things like this:
Quote:
My personal hunch is that this offense will still be a work in progress when the season starts and will be running more smoothly in November than it runs in September.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
The point is there's a new OC, a new system and the offense so far hasn't looked in synch.
On some great offense, or even a good offense, then I agree, its a long year ahead, because this teams offense will not be good.
But on the other hand, the defense looks real good, and I will take a really good defense any day of the week then the good offense. I think Eli will learn to manage the games since the defense will be carrying the team, and I actually think the team has the potential to run the ball effectively. That is the answer to a poor offense, run the ball, don't turn it over, and play great defense. you can go a long way with that philosophy, and we have the head coach who has the brains and experience enough to adjust if he has to, and he will.
If you ever have a cogent point, please make one and leave the bad jokes for Klaatu, that's his new niche.
If you'd like to go position by position and tell me how we're better I'm all ears, but you feel the need to play fozzy bear and not make an actual point which is fine. Some of us think and discuss, others sit on the sideline making snide remarks because they don't have the mettle to get into an actual discussion. Being a jeering idiot suits most on this site, and I get that, I was just hoping you wouldn't fall into that lazy hole and you'd actually like to discuss the team not be a hacky online jokester.
@DanGrazianoESPN: Here's how I'd rank the position groups on paper:
1. Cornerback
2. Safety
3. Quarterback
4. Running back
5. Offensive line
6. Linebackers
7. Defensive line
8. Wide receivers
9. Tight ends
How do you rate the OL ahead three spots ahead of the DL when it probably should be three/four spots behind. That's just stupid. There are some others but that is so stupid it deserves to stand by itself.
If you ever have a cogent point, please make one and leave the bad jokes for Klaatu, that's his new niche.
If you'd like to go position by position and tell me how we're better I'm all ears, but you feel the need to play fozzy bear and not make an actual point which is fine. Some of us think and discuss, others sit on the sideline making snide remarks because they don't have the mettle to get into an actual discussion. Being a jeering idiot suits most on this site, and I get that, I was just hoping you wouldn't fall into that lazy hole and you'd actually like to discuss the team not be a hacky online jokester.
I'm not sure that you can really say you're taking the intellectual approach when you claimed the season was over in march, before anything had been done to improve the team, and when you made a snap judgement on a DT prospect, cried that the sky was falling because of the pick, then completely reversed course on your position based on a few snaps in a single preseason game.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
Our WRs right now are flat out awful until Beckham shows what he can do. I made a comment already that it might not be long before ODB becomes our best WR.
@DanGrazianoESPN: Here's how I'd rank the position groups on paper:
1. Cornerback
2. Safety
3. Quarterback
4. Running back
5. Offensive line
6. Linebackers
7. Defensive line
8. Wide receivers
9. Tight ends
How do you rate the OL ahead three spots ahead of the DL when it probably should be three/four spots behind. That's just stupid. There are some others but that is so stupid it deserves to stand by itself.
I have to agree that the dl is looking promising - especially the tackles. The corners will make the dl look even better by giving them time to harass the qb. The tight end group is just horrible. I'm hoping that we pick someone up at te that can help.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
But every report is that JPP is healthy and fired up and playing wellk, Hankins and Moore have very good reports from camp are both are playing well so far the preseason and Kiwi is probably having the best camp of any DL. Add Jenkins, Ayers and Patterson and I think this is going to be a very strong unit.
I have no idea what to expect from this team. I could see the offense coming together & being really good, or them falling flat on their face. I think the D will be pretty good.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
But every report is that JPP is healthy and fired up and playing wellk, Hankins and Moore have very good reports from camp are both are playing well so far the preseason and Kiwi is probably having the best camp of any DL. Add Jenkins, Ayers and Patterson and I think this is going to be a very strong unit.
I hope you are right Bill. Because then we could be pretty damn good defensively. But untill JPP shows he is the JPP of old, its in limbo. I am not gettign my hopes up with Kiwi. All I hope he does is stop the run and let Moore take over in passing situations.
This is why I am excited for tonight. Going against Luck. More reps for the offense. We should have a better understanding after tonight.
Were undoubtably killing Shawn Ohara before his first and second year in NY. Be honest You know you were.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
but realistically I see Giants ceiling this year as 6-8 wins. Last year we were a four win team that managed to win seven games in a very ugly way. The Giants core strength has always been OL/DL and I see both as below average now.
Let the season begin. Maybe we can coach our way into the playoffs.
OL certainly has some questions; the DL is an obvious strength as has been demonstrated both in practice and in the pre-season games played so far.
We'll said! A couple of plays could decide our season.In comment 11809739 djm said:
Quote:
Were undoubtably killing Shawn Ohara before his first and second year in NY. Be honest You know you were.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
Our WRs right now are flat out awful until Beckham shows what he can do. I made a comment already that it might not be long before ODB becomes our best WR.
Our TEs.... not even worth discussing.
The DL has been playing pretty well in the pre-season games. I also wouldn't call the WRs flat out awful, either. We need to see what they look like if/when the new offense starts kicking in. TEs are pretty uninspiring.
I think your viewpoint is unnecessarily gloomy, but that appears to be fairly typical for you. No problem with that, but as a fan I tend to try to be a bit more upbeat. XShit, why would I be a fan of a team I shit on on a regular basis? Just doesn't compute to me.
got steamrolled on the first drive against Ben and the Steelers. I dont take stock on what they did against Buffalo since they just arent good and neither is Manuel.
Cruz hasnt caught a ball. Randle still cant figure out routes. Jerrigan isnt playing tonight. Beckham hasnt played yet. Sometimes the talent is just not there.
And I dont see any reason to be positive yet by the way our offense played last week. Tonight is a very big night.
I have no idea what to expect from this team. I could see the offense coming together & being really good, or them falling flat on their face. I think the D will be pretty good.
Agree on the D, but the O could land somewhere in the middle. I seriously don't expect them to be clicking on even a few cylinders for at least three games. If we don't see marked improvement after that, I'll likely start to worry, but not before.
The running game is going to be a huge early factor, and I see the OL we have now being able to perform adequately. No block busters there, but there's some reasonable talent.
Were undoubtably killing Shawn Ohara before his first and second year in NY. Be honest You know you were.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
Great point regarding O'Hara. He was regularly shit on here, even though some of the revisionists try to say that wasn't true.
and yes reviewing games made me watch him closely and I never got the blame he was always assigned. Walton is not anywhere near the same player O'Hara was. I don't like Walton based on what I've seen.
RE: Bromley. I made a call based on game tapes I saw, he has shown way more in the pre-season, how exactly does that disqualify my opinion? At least I fucking have one and have the stones to state what it is and own up when I'm wrong. What opinions are you known for BMac, TTH....please tell me when you've gone out on a limb or spent hours re-watching games to analyze and write for this site. Pick all you want, I'm going to keep saying how I feel and keep letting you all know what I see and think. I won't however be hiding in the shadows sniping at one opinion like a fucking coward when I'm not ready to offer anything in return.
Basically go fuck yourselves. You can't do what I do, and if you did, I'll wager it would come nowhere near close to as good. Why not ask Eric to do some game reviews? See how you do, see how you see things, see what you evaluate without someone telling you what to fucking think. Man up, pick 3 games a piece and do the game reviews and let's see the response from BBI. THink you'll get as good a reception as mine did? I don't, in fact I know you won't. I am better at this, which is why I've been paid to do it and you're both cowards hiding in the weeds. Take the challenge, write 3 game reviews each and see who thinks you did as well as I did. My guess will be no one will say you did as well, not nearly as well or provided anywhere near the insight. But don't believe me, have some stones, take the challenge and see how good you are.
Hint: You're not close but please give it a shot you big tough smart football guys. Let's see what you got if you're so fucking smart.
The Giants have a lot of questions, and the Oline issues are right in the forefront, but we won't know anything definitive for a while.
Sure we can project they will improve or not, but it's just a guess right now. We have to be patient(certainly a hard thing to be).
Let the season begin. Maybe we can coach our way into the playoffs.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
Replaced them with Beckham, ?, and FA/#2 draft choices. Except for TE which remains a question mark, I think the talent has been improved across the board. Depth has been improved as well.
Just because we haven't seen the whole package in pre-season, doesn't mean that it's not there. Eli was 6-7 with quick passes vs the Bills. Both Nassib and Painter drove to scores in the two minute offense. Running game had an impressive drive vs the Bills and a big play vs the Steelers.
Patience is required and a little faith as well.
Losing three of your top defenders will hurt, no matter how many CBs we brought in. The OL "fix" is already junked, Charles Brown, John Jerry and J.D. Walton....blech, Beatty is a gimpy 29 year old LT who is way up and way down and aside from Schwartz and Pugh, huge questions on the starting OL and little depth to count on. Charles Brown is awful, as is Jerry and Walton starting is not exactly something to be excited about.
I don't see much more than a 7 win season, and that may be wishful.
Quote:
My personal hunch is that this offense will still be a work in progress when the season starts and will be running more smoothly in November than it runs in September.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
Yeah that's not a hunch, that's common sense.
Yup. Predicted they would finish in last place in the division. And was nasty about it if I recall when readers argue the point.
Losing three of your top defenders will hurt, no matter how many CBs we brought in. The OL "fix" is already junked, Charles Brown, John Jerry and J.D. Walton....blech, Beatty is a gimpy 29 year old LT who is way up and way down and aside from Schwartz and Pugh, huge questions on the starting OL and little depth to count on. Charles Brown is awful, as is Jerry and Walton starting is not exactly something to be excited about.
I don't see much more than a 7 win season, and that may be wishful.
Jay Bromley says hi!
Quote:
My personal hunch is that this offense will still be a work in progress when the season starts and will be running more smoothly in November than it runs in September.
Can't you the same about pretty much every offense in the NFL?
The point is there's a new OC, a new system and the offense so far hasn't looked in synch.
But on the other hand, the defense looks real good, and I will take a really good defense any day of the week then the good offense. I think Eli will learn to manage the games since the defense will be carrying the team, and I actually think the team has the potential to run the ball effectively. That is the answer to a poor offense, run the ball, don't turn it over, and play great defense. you can go a long way with that philosophy, and we have the head coach who has the brains and experience enough to adjust if he has to, and he will.
If you'd like to go position by position and tell me how we're better I'm all ears, but you feel the need to play fozzy bear and not make an actual point which is fine. Some of us think and discuss, others sit on the sideline making snide remarks because they don't have the mettle to get into an actual discussion. Being a jeering idiot suits most on this site, and I get that, I was just hoping you wouldn't fall into that lazy hole and you'd actually like to discuss the team not be a hacky online jokester.
Um, ok. So no discussion of the Giants' outlook until after the season is played. Got it.
Bad jokes? Perish the thought. My jokes are awesome. Always have been, always will be.
1. Cornerback
2. Safety
3. Quarterback
4. Running back
5. Offensive line
6. Linebackers
7. Defensive line
8. Wide receivers
9. Tight ends
How do you rate the OL ahead three spots ahead of the DL when it probably should be three/four spots behind. That's just stupid. There are some others but that is so stupid it deserves to stand by itself.
If you'd like to go position by position and tell me how we're better I'm all ears, but you feel the need to play fozzy bear and not make an actual point which is fine. Some of us think and discuss, others sit on the sideline making snide remarks because they don't have the mettle to get into an actual discussion. Being a jeering idiot suits most on this site, and I get that, I was just hoping you wouldn't fall into that lazy hole and you'd actually like to discuss the team not be a hacky online jokester.
I'm not sure that you can really say you're taking the intellectual approach when you claimed the season was over in march, before anything had been done to improve the team, and when you made a snap judgement on a DT prospect, cried that the sky was falling because of the pick, then completely reversed course on your position based on a few snaps in a single preseason game.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
Our WRs right now are flat out awful until Beckham shows what he can do. I made a comment already that it might not be long before ODB becomes our best WR.
Our TEs.... not even worth discussing.
1. Cornerback
2. Safety
3. Quarterback
4. Running back
5. Offensive line
6. Linebackers
7. Defensive line
8. Wide receivers
9. Tight ends
How do you rate the OL ahead three spots ahead of the DL when it probably should be three/four spots behind. That's just stupid. There are some others but that is so stupid it deserves to stand by itself.
I have to agree that the dl is looking promising - especially the tackles. The corners will make the dl look even better by giving them time to harass the qb. The tight end group is just horrible. I'm hoping that we pick someone up at te that can help.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
But every report is that JPP is healthy and fired up and playing wellk, Hankins and Moore have very good reports from camp are both are playing well so far the preseason and Kiwi is probably having the best camp of any DL. Add Jenkins, Ayers and Patterson and I think this is going to be a very strong unit.
Quote:
is pretty spot on.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
But every report is that JPP is healthy and fired up and playing wellk, Hankins and Moore have very good reports from camp are both are playing well so far the preseason and Kiwi is probably having the best camp of any DL. Add Jenkins, Ayers and Patterson and I think this is going to be a very strong unit.
I hope you are right Bill. Because then we could be pretty damn good defensively. But untill JPP shows he is the JPP of old, its in limbo. I am not gettign my hopes up with Kiwi. All I hope he does is stop the run and let Moore take over in passing situations.
This is why I am excited for tonight. Going against Luck. More reps for the offense. We should have a better understanding after tonight.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
Let the season begin. Maybe we can coach our way into the playoffs.
OL certainly has some questions; the DL is an obvious strength as has been demonstrated both in practice and in the pre-season games played so far.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
I dont know how good our Dl will be. But JPP was average at best last year, Kiwi was worse, we lost Joseph. We dont know if Hankins/Moore have taken the next step.
Our WRs right now are flat out awful until Beckham shows what he can do. I made a comment already that it might not be long before ODB becomes our best WR.
Our TEs.... not even worth discussing.
The DL has been playing pretty well in the pre-season games. I also wouldn't call the WRs flat out awful, either. We need to see what they look like if/when the new offense starts kicking in. TEs are pretty uninspiring.
I think your viewpoint is unnecessarily gloomy, but that appears to be fairly typical for you. No problem with that, but as a fan I tend to try to be a bit more upbeat. XShit, why would I be a fan of a team I shit on on a regular basis? Just doesn't compute to me.
Cruz hasnt caught a ball. Randle still cant figure out routes. Jerrigan isnt playing tonight. Beckham hasnt played yet. Sometimes the talent is just not there.
And I dont see any reason to be positive yet by the way our offense played last week. Tonight is a very big night.
Agree on the D, but the O could land somewhere in the middle. I seriously don't expect them to be clicking on even a few cylinders for at least three games. If we don't see marked improvement after that, I'll likely start to worry, but not before.
The running game is going to be a huge early factor, and I see the OL we have now being able to perform adequately. No block busters there, but there's some reasonable talent.
You don't need studs at every position. You just need players. Walton might very well be a player. Early impressions look like he will be a stabilizing force at center.
Find me a team that doesn't have question marks all along the roster and that includes Seattle and the niners. Every team has holes or question marks.
Even last year when everything went wrong and the giants were dreadful, the entire season still hinged on there or four 4th quarters where if they made one play here or there they win the game and have a pulse heading into week 17.
The giants 2014 season will come down to about 3-4 plays in 4-5-6 games. Warts and all. That's the NFL. The giants will probably have a pulse in December. They always do. Whether they make the plays needed to win some of those must win games remains to be seen. I have a hard time penciling this team into 9 losses just because of a few unknown roster spots. I trust this regime more I guess.
Great point regarding O'Hara. He was regularly shit on here, even though some of the revisionists try to say that wasn't true.
RE: Bromley. I made a call based on game tapes I saw, he has shown way more in the pre-season, how exactly does that disqualify my opinion? At least I fucking have one and have the stones to state what it is and own up when I'm wrong. What opinions are you known for BMac, TTH....please tell me when you've gone out on a limb or spent hours re-watching games to analyze and write for this site. Pick all you want, I'm going to keep saying how I feel and keep letting you all know what I see and think. I won't however be hiding in the shadows sniping at one opinion like a fucking coward when I'm not ready to offer anything in return.
Basically go fuck yourselves. You can't do what I do, and if you did, I'll wager it would come nowhere near close to as good. Why not ask Eric to do some game reviews? See how you do, see how you see things, see what you evaluate without someone telling you what to fucking think. Man up, pick 3 games a piece and do the game reviews and let's see the response from BBI. THink you'll get as good a reception as mine did? I don't, in fact I know you won't. I am better at this, which is why I've been paid to do it and you're both cowards hiding in the weeds. Take the challenge, write 3 game reviews each and see who thinks you did as well as I did. My guess will be no one will say you did as well, not nearly as well or provided anywhere near the insight. But don't believe me, have some stones, take the challenge and see how good you are.
Hint: You're not close but please give it a shot you big tough smart football guys. Let's see what you got if you're so fucking smart.