1) Robinson gets stood up and pushed back by scrubs.
2) Richberg is versatile.
3) Our O-line will be a little better than last year's unless we get injured.
4) We need Odell - or somebody - to help Cruz.
5) Our D will keep us in games.
6) The Colts are a pretty good team.
7) Luck and his backups are good at running the offense we're trying to run.
it is nice to see our 3rd and 4th stringers bailed out the team
will probably play almost 3 quarters next week, and will be paying a decent Jets team. They need serious work. What's going on with Eli? Maybe he just is not suited for this O?! I guess we have to at least give him a few regular season games before we call Eli unsuited for this O., but out me down as one of the concerned.
Preseason Football was private. seriously. People get bent out of shape over games that mean nothing and have ZERO game planning. There are things that need work and that is what preseason is meant to expose, it is meant to see what works and what doesn't. In a new offense, lots of things are going to fail and/or need extra work before the regular season starts, I assure you that the majority of what we see from the ones is simple technique and footwork stuff to get them using new things they are learning in practice at game speed. the twos and threes are playing for roster spots. the ones really have nothing to prove in preseason. Those that do get their time to shine, like the running backs last week. I am really loving the talent on this team and I think the squad will surprise a lot of people come september. I love the fact that we are more uptempo than we have ever been. that 2 minute drill at the end was a nice preview of what we can expect.
Was passed from strahan to Osi to Tuck, the timing of each passing was great. From tuck to jpp, not as fortunate. But in JPP defense, he is the only stud DE.
Carl from CT if Washington, Harris and Nassib are cut...Mara should
You people are CrAzY!!! These players are playing against 3rd stringers most of which will be home watching the games like you in Sept... Relax Eli never plays well in the preseason... We will be fine, love our running backs..
Eli got hit on 2 of his first 3 pass attempts and people here want to
say he had time to throw. Okay. It's no surprise that Eli's only nice play in 3 games involved 1 WR, 4 TEs and RBs, and what appeared to be just 2 men in the pattern. I don't care what offense they're playing... if there's no pass protection, the offense will be a mess. If there's no running game, the offense will be a mess.
The Giants defense needs to work on something called CONTAINMENT. The complete lack of it was the main reason for almost every decent Colts drive in the game. Thurmond & McBride made me wonder if Hosley was just switching uniforms.
Punt defense could use some extra work on CONTAINMENT too.
Never has a team needed 5 preseason games more than the Giants do.
Our first team line could not pick up stunts or blitzes.
They were not overpowered in pass protection BUT generated no push in the running game. Beatty played pretty good. Mathis did not play for the Colts.
First team pass rush was not good. To be fair, there were at least three plays where Giant pass rushers were held directly in front of Luck and the referee.
McBride did not look good.
Moore looked very good.
Wynn flashed a couple time.
Kuhn got destoyed on a couple plays.
Williams had a nice blitz pickup.
Cox looks much better than Gaskins.
Harris and Washington both looked great. They have to be kept. There is no way that either will make it to the practice squad.
Nassib showed why he was picked by Giants. He definately has potential. Keep in mind he didn't play much last year. He was under pressure and delivered. He overcame some obstacles on the lastdrive.
Hopefully this will jump start Robinson. Two nice catches but he also had a drop.
Parker is getting a lot of playing time.
Manninghams days appear to be numbered.
Manning looks BAD. He is inaccurate and seems to panic at times. Is he still shell shocked from last year? He does not seem to have confidence in the o-line.
Hoping Taylor and Prince are OK. Any updates? Any other injuries of note?
The time for saying its only pre-season has past. We don't need to win, but we need to play much better on offense. I think the defense will be fine.
Sorry so long a post. Hoping for the best this year. I could see us being very good - but I could also see us being very bad. Go mighty Giants!
two Super Bowl wins. Would you say that he inherited the core of the club? Since he's had to start replacing the aging players, he doesn't seem to have done much right. I know that it's hindsight, but drafting Wilson, a high maintenance running back, instead of blockers for Manning and the running backs was his worst move. Since RBs have a short shelf life, you're supposed to get your linemen first.
RE: I'm thinking that Reese deserves less and less credit for the
two Super Bowl wins. Would you say that he inherited the core of the club? Since he's had to start replacing the aging players, he doesn't seem to have done much right. I know that it's hindsight, but drafting Wilson, a high maintenance running back, instead of blockers for Manning and the running backs was his worst move. Since RBs have a short shelf life, you're supposed to get your linemen first.
He ran the scouting department before he was GM. The core of the team he inherited was partly of his own making anyway.
So how do you think that he's been doing the last few years?
Tough to call Kenny Phillips, Chad Jones, Nicks, and Wilson anything but bad luck with their injuries.
They haven't done a great job with transitioning the offensive line. That much is true. But all nfl teams have their front office faults. Ultimately, I think he's above-average with his decision making and he's been snakebitten by circumstance.
be about. On one side we have two Super Bowl wins and on the other side it's one playoff appearance in seven years. I think the coach and GM will be out on the street at the end of the year. Just my opinion. Depending also on what replacements are available.
RE: RE: I'm thinking that Reese deserves less and less credit for the
two Super Bowl wins. Would you say that he inherited the core of the club? Since he's had to start replacing the aging players, he doesn't seem to have done much right. I know that it's hindsight, but drafting Wilson, a high maintenance running back, instead of blockers for Manning and the running backs was his worst move. Since RBs have a short shelf life, you're supposed to get your linemen first.
He ran the scouting department before he was GM. The core of the team he inherited was partly of his own making anyway.
He did the scouting, the analysis. Not the actual selection.
One can write reviews for wines and be great at it, ahve the best palate in the business. You can even make recomendations as to what goes best with what kind of meal. It doesn't mean you can put together a good meal or can cook, let alone be a great chef.
Assesing is one thing. Actually being the guy to make the selections and putting it all together the best way possible is another thing altogether.I begin to wonder if he is the best man for the job.
QB's today have a lot of flash and dash. They run around, run for first downs, throw on the run. They are not so easy to sack.After the first game I said Nassib looked more natural out there than Eli. Maybe Gilbride had the secret. Line up in the shotgun, put Eli in the pocket and let him heave those intermediate and long balls. He doesn't seem to have any feel for the short stuff.Not quick enough.Right now he's not even too accurate when he has time.
What Brady has is an o-line that is excellent at run blocking and solid in pass protection. Even if you want to credit Manning with Denver allowing the fewest sacks in the sport, he can't move and his line also is solid when it comes to running the ball. Pats/DEN and the Giants are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to negative runs.
How could anyone think the Giants' o-line was decent yesterday when the top 2 RBs averaged under 2.5 yards a carry and Eli was hit on 2 of his first 3 pass plays?
I do agree that in the future, the ability to run is going to be an important part of the position. However, plenty of guys who can't move are successful right now because of quality offensive lines.
I think Eli and the first team will score and move the ball well on the Jets this week for 3 quarters and all will be well at BBI.
Next week will still be vanilla defenses and our offense will learn from the mistakes we made.
Preseason Football was private. seriously. People get bent out of shape over games that mean nothing and have ZERO game planning. There are things that need work and that is what preseason is meant to expose, it is meant to see what works and what doesn't. In a new offense, lots of things are going to fail and/or need extra work before the regular season starts, I assure you that the majority of what we see from the ones is simple technique and footwork stuff to get them using new things they are learning in practice at game speed. the twos and threes are playing for roster spots. the ones really have nothing to prove in preseason. Those that do get their time to shine, like the running backs last week. I am really loving the talent on this team and I think the squad will surprise a lot of people come september. I love the fact that we are more uptempo than we have ever been. that 2 minute drill at the end was a nice preview of what we can expect.
watching these games, can be very frustrating. But when have the Giants, ever looked good in preseason ? We have a new offense, a new offensive line, a new TE, and a new RB, it's going to take time. Defensively, we have new corners, and linebackers. Not to mention, Beason is still out. So we just have to be patient. And be thankful, that it's just preseason.
Our first team O looked just awful. I know it's all vanilla right now, but basic fundamentals are lacking: when you average 3 ypc in your running game and complete 11% of your passes, you've got trouble on your hands.
BUT, it looks like we have some depth on this team. If someone goes down, we have guys who can step in and contribute, and at many positions. OL, TE, and LB worry me, though.
Getting a sneaking suspicion that Eli Manning is not the right fit for this offense.
Yes, Eli has not looked good so far. But as far as him not being the right fit for this offense, it's hard to know who fits where when the offense has been "under wraps"! I was afraid that TC would not unwrap the offense tonight because of the fact we face the Colts in November. That being said, it would be tough to unveil anything given the poor performance of the O line.
Obviously, both O & D are going to go well into the 3rd Quarter next week against the Jets & much of this new offense will be on display. After last night, it's easy to be pessimistic seeing that no aspect of the team (besides our bench players) played well. They all were consistently bad. But, they still have 3 weeks to right the ship & if we end the night on September 8th 1-0, this will all be forgotten quickly!
I guess there is alot of denial going on here. This is a rebuilding team. The coaches and GM held on to some players too long and delayed the process. Now it is in full rebuild mode and the real issue is whether Eli can carry a rebuilding team in this offense. The answer is probably not as his strength has been as a poised game manager. He has never been accurate except on the longer throws downfield. He is not nimble or quick and cannot run. It is who he has always been and it is amazing that fans are reacting as if he has suddenly declined. People hated Gilbride but Eli fit that offense so much better than he does in one that puts a premium on short, accurate passes and some mobility.
executing your assignment still does. Here's what I saw from just the first series by our Oline:
1st down (run) - Both Schwartz and Walton are beaten by their opponents, allowing the defenders to cross their face right into the hole
2nd down (run) - TE Donnell blocks no one at the point of attack, whiffing on the LB who makes the tackle
3rd down (pass) - Eli and the line in calling the protection rightly identify a blitzing LB, but miss completely on the Safety blitz. Schwartz is late and slow to recognize and fails to slide in time to pick it up.
And it doesn't get much better for the Ones from there.
Oh, and congratulations NFL, you finally created an unwatchable product.
be about. On one side we have two Super Bowl wins and on the other side it's one playoff appearance in seven years. I think the coach and GM will be out on the street at the end of the year. Just my opinion. Depending also on what replacements are available.
That would seem to be out of character reactionary by the team considering it's coming out of its most successful decade since the Parcells era. This franchise doesn't fire general managers lightly. Ernie Accorsi blew multiple picks and misjudged the offensive line too. Was there ever talk of him getting fired? It would be a hard sell, IMO.
QB's today have a lot of flash and dash. They run around, run for first downs, throw on the run. They are not so easy to sack.After the first game I said Nassib looked more natural out there than Eli. Maybe Gilbride had the secret. Line up in the shotgun, put Eli in the pocket and let him heave those intermediate and long balls. He doesn't seem to have any feel for the short stuff.Not quick enough.Right now he's not even too accurate when he has time.
So true!!!!! That's why the O line is getting bull rushed. There is no fear that Eli will move to another passing lane!
Unfortunately, it looks even worse than I think most would have anticipated.. but still. There are new players, it is a new system, they're experimenting with things, no one is comfortable yet.
This is going to continue for a bit. It's probably going to even continue into the regular season for a little while and the "FIRE BEN" threads will gradually start popping up everywhere.
I'm still not overly concerned, though. I just think this is going to take some patience. We will see better results eventually.
Yeah I am not sure what people expected. This team is rebuilding. We need better talent, and now in this new system it's not going to take 2 pre season games to get on track. I expect it to carry into the season.
wondered about eli, if he's regressed AT ALL from where he's been his entire career he simply will not be a good player. ie he's not the type of guy who can lose anything off his fastball
he is also a bad fit in this offense as some on this very website pointed out when mcadoo was hired. nassib is a very good fit in a WCO which adds intrigue. how patient will ben be, with eli?
Relative to its leagues averages, was every bit as bad (in fact worse) than any of the mid 90s giant offenses led by brown, kannell and graham. That is not hyperbole. Thats a tangible fact. It would require significant improvement just to have an average offense. And its tough to forsee that right now. I know its early, but my expectations for this team are as low as theyve ever been since the turn of the century.
We may not win 6 games this year. With the skill set of our receivers, our OL, and God knows what going on with Eli.... we need a 1990 type team at least to start.
Long possessions, good defense, and good specials. It's becoming apparent that we are not good pass blocking line, the wr have a hard time getting open, and when Eli does get time, he is a tad off.
wondered about eli, if he's regressed AT ALL from where he's been his entire career he simply will not be a good player. ie he's not the type of guy who can lose anything off his fastball
he is also a bad fit in this offense as some on this very website pointed out when mcadoo was hired. nassib is a very good fit in a WCO which adds intrigue. how patient will ben be, with eli?
Suggesting that McAdoo may bench Eli -- or even would have the authority to do it -- might be one of the more foolish things you've said, Thomas. Which is impressive, considering of you've accused players of being on drugs in game, made up blatant lies about contracts being offered to players, fights in the locker room, etc.
Manning may be shot or may be fine, who knows which, but he's going to play out this year, at least, regardless. And then ownership, probably with Reese influence, will make the final call to move on or keep him after that.
As we all know, this was a 3-4 win team last year. The offense has been one of the worst in the league for almost 2 seasons now. I'm an Eli guy, but do see cause for concern.
The OL sucks, We do not have an NFL-caliber TE on the roster, and our WRs aren't very good. Cruz is a great #2, but without a true #1 WR, he can be shut down easily.
I liked the ODB pick, and can't wait to see him, but I will still question whether the best move in the draft would have been Zach Martin @ #12 (Who can play OT & G), and WR or TE in the 2nd, as it was a deep WR draft.
show that he will return to his rookie season form. You don't need to double team him. JD Walton is not the answer, give Richburg the job and take the growing pains. I watched Aaron Donald and I watched Jay Bromley, I think Bromley is better.
and then I look at what everyone's talking about again this year and wonder what he's thinking. Is he as patient as his father?
[W]e just never seemed to be able to protect Eli well enough or get a ground game going well enough and that to me is the number one personnel priority going into the offseason, is we need to improve the offensive line.
Yeah I am not sure what people expected. This team is rebuilding. We need better talent, and now in this new system it's not going to take 2 pre season games to get on track. I expect it to carry into the season.
I don't think its crazy to expect more than 50 yards of total offense from a rebuilding team in the first half of a game. Even the expansion 1976 Tampa Bay Bucs could accomplish that...
Nicks waved at McBride, who then gave him a little bump walking off
it all starts up front. You can't run or pass if you can't block. Even if you lack sufficient talent in your receiving corps, you can help than out with a good running game but it still requires a solid OL than can block.
I didn't think Reese did enough to solidify the OL in the off season. Schwartz was a nice pick-up, and I liked the Richburg pick, but I still would have taken another interior OL in the 3rd or Martin in the 1st. Jerry, and Brown were cast-offs from other teams that didn't want them. Walton, lets see what happens there.
Again, its been written adnauseum, too many blown picks in rounds 2-4. Too much focus on projects and potential rather than simply good fundamental football players.
If this turns out to be another shit storm season, it will almost certainly be due in part from more sub-par performance from the OL and in that case what will the excuses be then?
Everyone should resign themselves to the fact that it could be a while before the offense starts hitting on all cylinders.
Finally, this defense is looking very good and will be even better when Beason returns.
1) Robinson gets stood up and pushed back by scrubs.
2) Richberg is versatile.
3) Our O-line will be a little better than last year's unless we get injured.
4) We need Odell - or somebody - to help Cruz.
5) Our D will keep us in games.
6) The Colts are a pretty good team.
7) Luck and his backups are good at running the offense we're trying to run.
that said, the O-Line needs some serious work
Everyone should resign themselves to the fact that it could be a while before the offense starts hitting on all cylinders.
Finally, this defense is looking very good and will be even better when Beason returns.
Giants got good pressure on Luck and broke that pocket. He was elusive and rolled out.<shrugs>
The Giants defense needs to work on something called CONTAINMENT. The complete lack of it was the main reason for almost every decent Colts drive in the game. Thurmond & McBride made me wonder if Hosley was just switching uniforms.
Punt defense could use some extra work on CONTAINMENT too.
Never has a team needed 5 preseason games more than the Giants do.
They were not overpowered in pass protection BUT generated no push in the running game. Beatty played pretty good. Mathis did not play for the Colts.
First team pass rush was not good. To be fair, there were at least three plays where Giant pass rushers were held directly in front of Luck and the referee.
McBride did not look good.
Moore looked very good.
Wynn flashed a couple time.
Kuhn got destoyed on a couple plays.
Williams had a nice blitz pickup.
Cox looks much better than Gaskins.
Harris and Washington both looked great. They have to be kept. There is no way that either will make it to the practice squad.
Nassib showed why he was picked by Giants. He definately has potential. Keep in mind he didn't play much last year. He was under pressure and delivered. He overcame some obstacles on the lastdrive.
Hopefully this will jump start Robinson. Two nice catches but he also had a drop.
Parker is getting a lot of playing time.
Manninghams days appear to be numbered.
Manning looks BAD. He is inaccurate and seems to panic at times. Is he still shell shocked from last year? He does not seem to have confidence in the o-line.
Hoping Taylor and Prince are OK. Any updates? Any other injuries of note?
The time for saying its only pre-season has past. We don't need to win, but we need to play much better on offense. I think the defense will be fine.
Sorry so long a post. Hoping for the best this year. I could see us being very good - but I could also see us being very bad. Go mighty Giants!
How was the OLine ?
Was the playbook opened up?
Was it really that bad for the 1s?
He ran the scouting department before he was GM. The core of the team he inherited was partly of his own making anyway.
Tough to call Kenny Phillips, Chad Jones, Nicks, and Wilson anything but bad luck with their injuries.
They haven't done a great job with transitioning the offensive line. That much is true. But all nfl teams have their front office faults. Ultimately, I think he's above-average with his decision making and he's been snakebitten by circumstance.
Quote:
two Super Bowl wins. Would you say that he inherited the core of the club? Since he's had to start replacing the aging players, he doesn't seem to have done much right. I know that it's hindsight, but drafting Wilson, a high maintenance running back, instead of blockers for Manning and the running backs was his worst move. Since RBs have a short shelf life, you're supposed to get your linemen first.
He ran the scouting department before he was GM. The core of the team he inherited was partly of his own making anyway.
One can write reviews for wines and be great at it, ahve the best palate in the business. You can even make recomendations as to what goes best with what kind of meal. It doesn't mean you can put together a good meal or can cook, let alone be a great chef.
Assesing is one thing. Actually being the guy to make the selections and putting it all together the best way possible is another thing altogether.I begin to wonder if he is the best man for the job.
How could anyone think the Giants' o-line was decent yesterday when the top 2 RBs averaged under 2.5 yards a carry and Eli was hit on 2 of his first 3 pass plays?
I do agree that in the future, the ability to run is going to be an important part of the position. However, plenty of guys who can't move are successful right now because of quality offensive lines.
Next week will still be vanilla defenses and our offense will learn from the mistakes we made.
that said, the O-Line needs some serious work
Ditto
BUT, it looks like we have some depth on this team. If someone goes down, we have guys who can step in and contribute, and at many positions. OL, TE, and LB worry me, though.
Getting a sneaking suspicion that Eli Manning is not the right fit for this offense.
Yes, Eli has not looked good so far. But as far as him not being the right fit for this offense, it's hard to know who fits where when the offense has been "under wraps"! I was afraid that TC would not unwrap the offense tonight because of the fact we face the Colts in November. That being said, it would be tough to unveil anything given the poor performance of the O line.
Obviously, both O & D are going to go well into the 3rd Quarter next week against the Jets & much of this new offense will be on display. After last night, it's easy to be pessimistic seeing that no aspect of the team (besides our bench players) played well. They all were consistently bad. But, they still have 3 weeks to right the ship & if we end the night on September 8th 1-0, this will all be forgotten quickly!
Third down with the 1st Team in there has become an automatic punt situation.
And anybody who says you won't see these plays again, new offense not unveiled, trying out players, etc...I am not not buying.
No way those players/coaches could be happy with that first half of play.
1st down (run) - Both Schwartz and Walton are beaten by their opponents, allowing the defenders to cross their face right into the hole
2nd down (run) - TE Donnell blocks no one at the point of attack, whiffing on the LB who makes the tackle
3rd down (pass) - Eli and the line in calling the protection rightly identify a blitzing LB, but miss completely on the Safety blitz. Schwartz is late and slow to recognize and fails to slide in time to pick it up.
And it doesn't get much better for the Ones from there.
Oh, and congratulations NFL, you finally created an unwatchable product.
Offense stinks and the Prince is out.
That would seem to be out of character reactionary by the team considering it's coming out of its most successful decade since the Parcells era. This franchise doesn't fire general managers lightly. Ernie Accorsi blew multiple picks and misjudged the offensive line too. Was there ever talk of him getting fired? It would be a hard sell, IMO.
Offense is a disaster and the defense not much better.
So true!!!!! That's why the O line is getting bull rushed. There is no fear that Eli will move to another passing lane!
Unfortunately, it looks even worse than I think most would have anticipated.. but still. There are new players, it is a new system, they're experimenting with things, no one is comfortable yet.
This is going to continue for a bit. It's probably going to even continue into the regular season for a little while and the "FIRE BEN" threads will gradually start popping up everywhere.
I'm still not overly concerned, though. I just think this is going to take some patience. We will see better results eventually.
he is also a bad fit in this offense as some on this very website pointed out when mcadoo was hired. nassib is a very good fit in a WCO which adds intrigue. how patient will ben be, with eli?
Long possessions, good defense, and good specials. It's becoming apparent that we are not good pass blocking line, the wr have a hard time getting open, and when Eli does get time, he is a tad off.
I am in favor of a 60-40 run split.
he is also a bad fit in this offense as some on this very website pointed out when mcadoo was hired. nassib is a very good fit in a WCO which adds intrigue. how patient will ben be, with eli?
Suggesting that McAdoo may bench Eli -- or even would have the authority to do it -- might be one of the more foolish things you've said, Thomas. Which is impressive, considering of you've accused players of being on drugs in game, made up blatant lies about contracts being offered to players, fights in the locker room, etc.
Manning may be shot or may be fine, who knows which, but he's going to play out this year, at least, regardless. And then ownership, probably with Reese influence, will make the final call to move on or keep him after that.
The OL sucks, We do not have an NFL-caliber TE on the roster, and our WRs aren't very good. Cruz is a great #2, but without a true #1 WR, he can be shut down easily.
I liked the ODB pick, and can't wait to see him, but I will still question whether the best move in the draft would have been Zach Martin @ #12 (Who can play OT & G), and WR or TE in the 2nd, as it was a deep WR draft.
It's gonna be a shitty year.
[W]e just never seemed to be able to protect Eli well enough or get a ground game going well enough and that to me is the number one personnel priority going into the offseason, is we need to improve the offensive line.
I don't think its crazy to expect more than 50 yards of total offense from a rebuilding team in the first half of a game. Even the expansion 1976 Tampa Bay Bucs could accomplish that...
After the game he went over to Coughlin, shook hands, and wished him luck.
I didn't think Reese did enough to solidify the OL in the off season. Schwartz was a nice pick-up, and I liked the Richburg pick, but I still would have taken another interior OL in the 3rd or Martin in the 1st. Jerry, and Brown were cast-offs from other teams that didn't want them. Walton, lets see what happens there.
Again, its been written adnauseum, too many blown picks in rounds 2-4. Too much focus on projects and potential rather than simply good fundamental football players.
If this turns out to be another shit storm season, it will almost certainly be due in part from more sub-par performance from the OL and in that case what will the excuses be then?