First two quarters were awful. But you can't expect this offense to click right away, right? I'm hoping the offense gets humming in October sometime.
I wonder how much McAdoo holds back not wanting to show his hand for the regular season. There has to be some of that right?
Offensive line sucked and it's hard to play without a viable
tight end presence.
At least they found a back up QB last night. Easily the best we've seen from Nassib. Loved the tough 4th and 16 throw.
With a new OC, you aren't going to game plan or show your hand. The concepts you are running are base stuff. You're not going to get a crisp looking offense in the 2nd preseason game. You may not get it until few regular season games into the season. That's the way it is people need to have patience or they will give themselves agida over this adjustment period.
I am talking now with this new system. It's basically a clean slate for everyone and now it's an adjustment period. High expectations are going to leave a lot of people mad.
When you have top playmakers at RB and WR along with a talented OL who have player together, it makes things a bit easier. I'm interested to see them repeat that without their star WR and with their scheme and QB fully vetted buy the defensive coordinators in the league.
With a new OC, you aren't going to game plan or show your hand. The concepts you are running are base stuff. You're not going to get a crisp looking offense in the 2nd preseason game. You may not get it until few regular season games into the season. That's the way it is people need to have patience or they will give themselves agida over this adjustment period.
Anish, are you still doing your breakdowns of the play calls? Do yo see any difference in the types of plays being called with the 2s and 3s as opposed to the 1's?
where is the uptempo quick decision west coast offense that we were suppose to get this year?
it looks to me like the offense last year!
especially on certain plays
like eli sacks and on the pick that was called back
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What about the eagles last year? They looked good out of the gate.
I am talking now with this new system. It's basically a clean slate for everyone and now it's an adjustment period. High expectations are going to leave a lot of people mad.
The Eagles had a clean slate after years in the same offense too.
I think it was reasonable to expect that the offense would get a little better each week as the new offense was installed but this offense is going backward. And I'm beginning to think that this offense isn't going to look any different than the Gilbride offense, except maybe play a little faster.
What happened to the short passes to the flat and the swing passes to the backs? All I see is checkdowms to delays and draw plays on 3rd and long. Real creative stuff!
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What about the eagles last year? They looked good out of the gate.
I am talking now with this new system. It's basically a clean slate for everyone and now it's an adjustment period. High expectations are going to leave a lot of people mad.
An offense should learn the new system a helluva lot faster than a defense learns to defend it ...
The Eagles put in a new system last year and were fast out of the gate and it took time for defenses to adjust ...
Our "so called" new system seems so easy to defend either because players don't know what to do yet ... or can't do what is expected ... or McAdoo simply doesn't know how to design plays that gives a defense problems ...
Even Eli - one of the smartest QBs around - appears to be dumb as a brick as to what is going on ... he had some of that last year with a porous OL and WRs not making the right reads ... but the new offense was supposed to take care of that ...
I've always said that Eli gives us a chance to win every game ... with these surroundings (offensive holes, no TEs, no play execution, etc ...) I'm not so sure about that anymore ...
Anish, are you still doing your breakdowns of the play calls? Do yo see any difference in the types of plays being called with the 2s and 3s as opposed to the 1's?
It's seems to be the same stuff. I didn't record the game. But outside zone, toss, and running concepts like that. I think what can be seen is the talent vs talent with the 2s and 3s. Perhaps our talent is doing well then.
That can explain the late game comebacks. Our first unit is the real group that still needs to click.
Everyone wants to say they suck, but these guys do have skill . They haven't put it all together yet. The oline has been thrown together and everyone just expects it to function without flaw right away. Not going to happen for a little bit.
Someone mentioned the Eagles playing a new offense well out of the gate, but you have to also consider that their oline was already in tact and their O also didn't really get going until Foles became the guy.
Have patience, it will take time. Progress is inching along right now.
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In comment 11811116 Larry in Pencilvania said:
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What about the eagles last year? They looked good out of the gate.
I am talking now with this new system. It's basically a clean slate for everyone and now it's an adjustment period. High expectations are going to leave a lot of people mad.
The Eagles had a clean slate after years in the same offense too.
Okay, but are we running the same offense as them? Do we have the same exact players as them when it comes to individuals learning something new? Do you have brothers or sisters? Do you learn at the same rate as them, or are you all individuals?
Same shit, except this is a new offense, that's different and you're teaching to different humans.
That's all the beat writers talked about in practice.
The Eagles put in a new system last year and were fast out of the gate and it took time for defenses to adjust ...
Our "so called" new system seems so easy to defend either because players don't know what to do yet ... or can't do what is expected ... or McAdoo simply doesn't know how to design plays that gives a defense problems ...
Even Eli - one of the smartest QBs around - appears to be dumb as a brick as to what is going on ... he had some of that last year with a porous OL and WRs not making the right reads ... but the new offense was supposed to take care of that ...
I've always said that Eli gives us a chance to win every game ... with these surroundings (offensive holes, no TEs, no play execution, etc ...) I'm not so sure about that anymore ...
Again, are we learning the same system as them? No, in fact Chip Kelly is considered a mad scientist of sorts and has OC experience. Does Ben M.? I wanted someone like Norv Turner who has proven success in the league. Instead we went with a fucking newbie who has never called a full season.
Don't you think there will be an adjustment process? You people want to point out Philly but it's apples and oranges. A. it's not the same fucking system, B. You have different players learning the system, and C. Our OC has ZERO Oc experience.
Add in talent issues because Reese and Ross have fucked up our drafts and you get our present situation.
Eli is learning a system after a decade. Now everything changes not to mention our fucking change with position coaches. So new ways of doing things and getting coached up as well.
Do you people not expect a fucking learning curve? But hey, all the coaches are on a 2 year deal as is Eli and RR. So if this thing goes to shit we may have a lot more changes to this team, which I am sure may make some of our fan base happy.
An offense should learn the new system a helluva lot faster than a defense learns to defend it ...
In watching football for nearly 60 years, I've found that the above statement is true most all the time ... I stand by it ...
Look recently just on the other side of the locker room for examples ...
Eric Mangini even as a first year defensive minded head coach elevated Chad Pennington to stardom with a new offense ...
Mark Sanchez came out like a super star ... also with a first year defensive minded head coach putting in a new offense ...
Neither Ryan nor Mangini will ever be called offensive geniuses ... but simply by putting in a new offense they were successful with it until DCs caught up ... even with run of the mill QBs ...
I'll give it time ... but defenses sure seem to be able to know how to shut down our new offense quite easily ...
This is contrary to what I've noticed for many years ...
Based on last night if they run the hurry up they may set the NFL record for the most and fastest 3 and outs in a game.
All teams are different and all systems are different and all talent levels are different. If you can't see this, or you refuse to see this(some posters)it becomes very hard to discuss.
At this point we have a few posters(not people asking actual why questions)just doing the loud noises thing and wanting to complain. If you need to vent by all means do so. The Giants have lots of problems you can vent about, but don't try to turn your vent in to a fact.
I think people forget these are human beings. Well this team has certain humans who understood the system, so why can't our guys? Are they the same fucking people? Or.. maybe, just maybe are there humans different than our humans? All people are different and so it may take one team longer to digest information than others.
So and So kid is a good baseball player, so why cant our kid be. That's what it basically sounds like when reading some members posts. As if all people are the same and learn at the same fucking rate.
They looked worse than in the 1st pre season game. Eli was brutal.
Something is seriously wrong.
Chris, I understand your point and my initial comment was certainly not aimed at you but more so at the general I just want to yell crowd.
They are always on BBI and will always be on BBI and only you as a fan can decide how you want to feel and react but it does get old when you try and discuss the game and the loud noises people just keep repeating the same.things...sometimes for years.
The Eagles have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and maybe the best RB in the NFL . . . . the Giants aren't close to having either of those things. Makes a big difference.
The First Team units should have stayed back in Jersey and practiced or better yet prayed.
The Eagles have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and maybe the best RB in the NFL . . . . the Giants aren't close to having either of those things. Makes a big difference.
I am not sure fans are thinking further than, " Well they can do it, why can't we?"
Simplistic, well if they can go out and play, we can't we do the same. Well, for starters we lack the talent they do. We also have a first time OC, while Chip Kelly is considering innovative. Also, every human is different, perhaps they can learn that system better than we can learn ours. Not to mention we have different coaches too that need to teach their way of doing things.
It takes time, which by nature fans don't want to hear.
I am not. I do follow that side a lot more closely then the defense since I coached that side of the ball. Other that that, no not taking it personally. I just know about these issues because I coached when we had to install a new system. So I am aware of the issues that come up with install.
Anish I know you have been championing a new system for awhile so I yield to yourexperience as well. IMHO this process will be a marathon as they learn the offense and improve the talent
Anish I know you have been championing a new system for awhile so I yield to yourexperience as well. IMHO this process will be a marathon as they learn the offense and improve the talent
They are still installing and practicing concepts. Also, this team is not filled with talent. Bad drafting by Ross and Reese has hurt us. New coaches as well have to learn and get integrated and teach these guys.
I am not worried about it. If by mid season we suck, and our offense looks the same then yeah I will have a big problem with it.
However, it's only the 3rd preseason game which just finished. Once Eli and BM can talk about things they like and want installed once we game plan vs shit that should be nixed because we can't execute it, I expect things to be somewhat better.
I guess it comes down to I am not worried about it as everyone else. It's still early in the process.
Reese has done well in terms of keeping the right guys and with UFA signings for the most part. But the draft is where you build your team and he has flopped mightily there.
I do like our 2013 and 2014 drafts so far though it is early.
We will have a great gauge of how good or bad this team may be when we face the Jets this week. This is the "big" pre-season game where the real work goes to the first team. If we execute well and move the ball many on BBI will ease up. If we have another egg this place will go NUTS but they should go nuts on Reese the most.
I believe we'll be at least "OK" versus the Jets and then build as the season goes. This assumes we stay healthy so cohesiveness builds.
Lastly, losing Snee, who I thought would bounce back for one more year given his surgeries and off-season time to heal, hurt this OL. He was solid when healthy and would have provided a veteran presence. Such is life.
The problem is that's all we've gotten the last 2 season -- and how'd that work out for us? YOU CANNOT BE ALL ABOUT THE DEEP BALL.
Run game, short passes, uptempo, methodical offense. Where the fuck is it? 2011 was not about hitting Cruz deep. It was short passes that we're taken for big runs. Let's get back to that please.
I have to think the 3rd string is running what Eli is supposed to be doing.
However I do want to reinterate a comment that I made in another thread; Tom Coughlin said they game-planned protections and audibles for some of the pressures that the Colts used. They were not doing dummy calls where they appeared to audible and just ran the called play, as Dottino stated earlier in the week Coughlin was very disappointed last night and I'm sure his quarterback was a huge part of it. Giants o-line appears to have marginally better personnel this season. Just how much so is a hot topic of debate.
As for the Eagle commentary let's play Our Guy vs Their Guy. Combine the two offensive units . How many Giants would start. Victor & maybe Pugh. There is your answer. Talent rules in this league .
The same goes for Anish who questioned the decision to go with an unproven, inexperienced OC to fix the "broken offense". BM may be and become fantastic--let's hope he is and does--but it strains logic and comprehension why the braintrust would, in executing a strategy to fix a broken offense, embark on a completely unproven scheme and OC to implement it.
The question goes back to the debate whether the offense was broken (plenty of evidence for that) because of the scheme/OC or the personnel. Of course Reese's position had to be, and he convinced Mara, that it was not the personnel (and his follow-on comment on JJ) so Reese remains "the right man for the job".
Yet the personnel also changed, how much for the better is the raging question of this pre-season: Even Reese can't undo five (2008 and counting) lousy drafts in the space of a year or two, barely helped along by largely middling FA signings over recent years, Beason being the exception.
So here is what I cannot understand - our coaching staff's proclivity for playing 1/2 to 3/4 of the exhibition games with 2nd and 3rd stringers - guys that won't even sniff the final 53. Shouldn't they be giving the starting OL the most time they can to work out the kinks?
And I'm tired of the coach speak that "we need healthy competition". BS. By the time of training camp, you should know who 40-45 of the final 53 are going to be (barring injuries). You keep 8 or 9 linemen, competition comes from the perceived backups pushing the perceived starters. Not from camp fodder scrubs. Play the starters as much as you can.
Week #1 - work the uptempo short passing game (Eli = 6/7)
Week #2 - work the running game (only 2 pass attempts)
Week #3 - work the deep pass (3 shots downfield)
Reserves come in and start playing a different set of plays.
Method in the madness ?