to understand?
The team is playing pretty bad. That's pretty much both sides of the ball.
You expected better? Why?
let's see
a) a new offensive system
b) new offensive line. That is, two guys from last year
c) New running backs...although the FB's are the same.
d) tight ends still learning system ..along with the rest of the line some can block, some can catch, one or two can do both.....at times.
e) the WR-QB 1st team combo gets very few reps in the game except for last game. Usually 3 and out. Getting a little better.
f) rookie 1st pick WR not practicing....can he play?....will he help or will he add to the miscommunication?
Maybe defense will be better because IT'S CORE HAS BEEN TOGETHER FOR AT LEAST ONE SEASON!!!!!
NYG History has shown that wholesale changes require time for gelling ...AND synchronizing of all the moving parts.
As an example, see Spagnola's introduction of his defensive scheme and he had top pass rushers. Took two games into the regular season and almost three before it gelled and got going.
The Offense has a lot more parts and a whole lot more moving parts and needs of greater integration of both action,rout running ,pulling personnel, pass protection and Rb's running than defense.
There's so much that has to happen at once for a play to succeed that it takes a while for the fundamentals of the scheme to settle in and become second nature. After that phase, which I doubt we've reached,
comes the implementation of specific plan.
Each plan has it's variations as there is rarely a straightforward plan. Perhaps in straight ahead running or a fly pattern. Other than that there's so much even in a "simple" play.
The Giants were creamed by the Colts 1st team....How could you expect other wise?
The Colts' have a well organized, practiced team. i'm sure they have problems but their's is in introducing one or two rookies something like 10% of their unit as opposed to introducing 70% of the unit.
It;s possible to continue along this line but the question is always "Shouldn't these players be better?"
Of course ..but they are good? OF course. What they are NOT is playing together as a unit against premier opposition. If you want to get better, compete with the better guys. Now they are doing it FOR THE FIRST TIME AS A UNIT.
Will they be better? I think enough of Reese and Coughlin to be assured that OVER ENOUGH TIME the true character of this team will come through.
Are there players who will be dropped? Certainly. The first cut down will immediately act to concentrate the coaching to fewer players. There will be more reps for the rest and more concentration of coaching. That culling will continue until the core of players are reached and then..the season begins and the accountable losses will start until the core has cohesed to where they play to their potential.
How many season loses before the team starts to win....I guess between three and four. Will it be heart breaking .....Yep just like when my son played hockey goalie as a fill in when he was 9.
if you expect more, Then I must caution you to be prepared for excruciating pain.
Now what are my credentials in making the above statements?
Really none. Just a looooong time Giant fan but one doesn't need to know the name of every tree to recognize a forest when one sees one.
because this is eli's and coughlin's last shot. if they don't make the playoffs this year they are both gone.
However when my kids did things that really hurt I looked for reasons or shortcomings that would make us understand.
I didn't beat the shit out of them with even knowing why the event happened. (My experience w/my dad)
Lead with your heart but and stay the course..Like your kids. It'll work itself out. Just give it a chance.
Guess what? Neither one is correct? Why is that so hard for people to get through their skulls? You want to write why you are one or the other - knock yourself out. Just stop trying to tell everyone else why anyone with a half a brain should see things the way you do.
Still my team and I want them t win. Only with hindsight can I replace any of the coaches so without hindsight Go Big Blue!
So while I hope for better, that is my anticipation. Hopefully, we can run the ball and help control the clock but we will struggle on O for a while until we have the same, hopefully healthy guys, getting all the reps in practice.
Maybe the curve won't be that long but I suspect it will be.
I see very good things this year.
i'm sure john Mara conferred with him so i must agree.
Bullshit!!! You don't think the giants are good or bad...Great.
You feel there should be changes great!
But ultimatums from a meat head? they just don't fly. that's not a fan that's a guy who has a napoleonic complex.
If Eli gets cut and /or Coughlin goes it will depend on the season and all that goes with the season.
the amount of injuries and the concentration of injuries per position will partly determine the outcome of the seasons.
In Macadoo's case there should be a one season grace period. but to put all your emotions in the preseason practice games .....and that's what they are!!!! is insane. That's not leading with your heart.
Half the players in the game will be gone n two more games. That's for BOTH teams.
In the Giants case what weight can you put on these games other than see if the 1st team is coming together?
Who on the second team might make the squad or PS.
I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree but to recognize the reality of the situation.
Once that is done then by all means cheer or jeer as passionate as suits you but don't castigate until the team has a chance to play like a team. At that point ..Go for it.
SAve your anquish for the season games or practice up on getting pains in the chest for bad plays now. Your call...with my blessings.
I don't know if the premise is true or not. the giants might very well be a bad team, but people are really over-reacting to the preseason performance. I judge preseason by how the game stands when the starters leave and the Giants are 1-1-1 in that department. Not stellar, but far from horrid. Furthermore, they are implementing a new offense and fans have little to no clue on how much is being featured and how much isn't. We play the Colts in the regular season. Do you think they are going to run everything they have at them now?
Each year, people fall all over themselves in either anger or joy based on games that are really glorified practices. and each year, we have whipping boys and stars. Most of the time, neither is as good nor bad as advertised. Also, the logic is usually flawed. Last week, the board was all over Painter being decent and Nassib sucking because of what Painter did against 3rd stringers and worse. Well, based on that logic, Nassib should be fighting Eli for the starter's mantle. The past is littered with Sean Bennett's, Jonas Seawright's, etc. as can't misses and draft pick busts are proclaimed every year before they've even shown anything.
I really don't know how good or bad this team is, but did anyone see Foles last week or Romo this week? what about Kaepernick or Griffin?
If experience has taught me anything it is that preseason means jack shit, even if we are so football starved that we think we have all the answers, or WANT to have all the answers just so we can discuss football.
We have seen Giant teams SUCK through the first two real games and then go on to win a super bowl. Now I am supposed to just bury this team because they look bad in frickin August??
So there's no way the Giants get things together over the next 3 weeks is that it? Even though we have seen teams get shit turned around in days or even minutes...nope...this team is cooked.
I honestly think it's easier for some to just proclaim and expect the sky to fall..this way the disappointment is easier to digest? Maybe...but I am sticking to my guns--this team will have a shot in December. I think the D will be good enough to keep us in games and the O do enough to win games. They may struggle early...and I think the passing game will hit or miss all year long...but I think this team will run the ball in 2014.
A running game and defense can win ten games. Just give Eli a shot in late december...that's all I ask.
It goes back to the end of 2012.
I'm hoping you're right FMIC.........
Same story so far.
There are legitimate concerns. Doesn't mean things won't get better, but you can't fault people for being upset.
If I look where we stand on august 18, I see a team that has shown just as much as their division rivals.
I also see a team that has played good defensive football in the preseason, but what people want to talk about is the offense and only the offense. Why? because it looks like shit and so many BBI'ers love to crap their pants.
This site should be sponsored by Depends. Would cover up accidents and probably install a shit load less Malware, to boot.
Does that make me a doomsayer? I don't think so.
As fans we knew we were getting a new line, a new offensive system, new running backs, etc.
Guess what? For many of us that was reason to hope we'd see something exciting! Look at some of the success other teams have had in the league implementing new systems. When they've done well it's been "well, defenses haven't figured them out yet". Why can't we have hoped for some of the same luck?
Another big concern I personally have is that we went from a system that was known to be complicated. It was difficult for skill position players to get on the field and make an impact, often taking 2-3 or more years until they could be trusted to understand their assignments. This isn't good in the NFL anymore - complicated systems are great if you have tenured players who can stay healthy. But with today's salary cap those players move on to other teams and have to be replaced.
I was really hoping we'd see a system that allowed players to get on the field and quickly contribute. I was hoping for a QB-friendly system like they have in San Fran - one that includes at least one player who is not required to make any reads - they just run a route that doesn't include any options. This means the QB can always know exactly where to find one receiver.
What do we see early on? That the offense looks like crap. Every single bit of it (at least the first string). Can't control the LOS (with our revamped line was hoping for some improvement there - nope, looks the same so far), QB and receivers not on the same page. And not only is it bad, but the one guy I had faith in prior to this season (Eli) looks like he needs to get back to fundamentals.
Another thing is that we look for improvements. Maybe we're discounting how great the Colts defense is. I don't know. But to me it looked like a matchup between teams that shouldn't be in the same league.
Now, I realize that my observations are over-reactions, so I'm not giving up on my overall hope for the team. But is it really difficult for you to understand why some were hoping for more?
Same story so far.
There are legitimate concerns. Doesn't mean things won't get better, but you can't fault people for being upset.
Typical BBI.
Same story so far.
There are legitimate concerns. Doesn't mean things won't get better, but you can't fault people for being upset.
Yes.
Pretty sure some folks were saying still 'too early' when the Giants were 0-2 last regular season. 0-6, of course, was 'too late'.
The moral? Everyone's entitled to their own observation of basics truths. Unless they conflict. Then it's all 'Hey, what are you people doing expressing your observations on a message board????!!!!'
Frankly, most of the time people talk about this team sucking ass, even when they win and then we list a bunch of cautionary reasons why we won. Hell, in the SB years you had posts about if it would be better to miss the playoffs and get a better draft pick. we have people talking about the giants getting lucky that Asante Samuel dropped an "easy" pass that was a few feet over his head.
Heck, even last year, our wins weren't "legitimate" because we beat backup QB's.
I'm not saying there arent concerns - I'm also not saying things are rosy. What it boils down to is that we overreact to everything. When Mcadoo was hired, it was the best thing since free gov't cheese. Get rid of that walrus-looking fuck, Gilbride. Now Mcadoo is everything from a Coughlin lackey continuing to run Tom's offense to a guy who simply imported GB's offense, to a guy who doesn't know shit.
If you took a step back and look at what is posted 9 times out of 10, you'd shake your head in a combination of disbelief and laughter.
But just do that passively. Point out posts (like on game threads), and people will think you are just some high-falutin jackass drinking the Kool-Aid.
I was answering the OP's "You expected better? Why?"
OLine is definitely a contributer. But we'll be going on 2 years of Eli struggling if he continues to struggles this season. I'm hopeful running McCarthy's offense will help. I guess we shall see.
The Lions game was fully legit - we basically ruined their season with a real spoiler win. Beating the Redskins was amusing because they were giving away their 1st round pick.
Overall I found the 1st two games of the season to be the most entertaining and enjoyable, despite the losses. Our season was still alive at that point. The Dallas game was a legitimately fun game and we gave it the ole college try against a powerhouse Broncos team. Those games actually gave me more optimism than some of the painfully dull wins. Although that optimism was quickly blown away in KC and Carolina.
The points is neither one of those views is more legitimate or educated than the other. Whether you are telling the pollyana's to get their heads out of their ass or telling the doomsayers to get their heads out of their ass is equally as stupid.
I think that is the crux of the matter.
A good amount of the fans are scarred by what happened last year to where they are not allowing the team off the hook again out of fear it may happen again based on what things look like.
When the first preseason game in Pittsburgh happened last year and Eli was getting pressured and hit, that was a sign of what was to come the whole season.
When the offense had to go until the 4th preseason game against the Patriots 3rd stringers just to score a TD or reasonably move the ball, that was a troubling sign that previewed exactly what the regular season turned out to be. The excuse for everything was "It's early," right up until it wasn't.
And it wasn't until the end of the season when the team and folks close to the team could finally be honest instead of giving player and coach speak, when they admitted their struggles in the summer carried right into the year and cause their terrible start that killed their season.
Since it would appear the same thing is happening again, some of the fans see the early writing on the wall.
They were 0-6 and were still in the division race around Thanksgiving. The chances of that happening again if you just simulated a season 1,000 times is very, very small.
When the offense had to go until the 4th preseason game against the Patriots 3rd stringers just to score a TD or reasonably move the ball, that was a troubling sign that previewed exactly what the regular season turned out to be. The excuse for everything was "It's early," right up until it wasn't.
yep, i agree
Now, this has to be the most alarming 3-0 I can remember. The starters' passing offense has been non-existent the last two games. The Giants are undefeated because their fourth-stringers are beating the other teams' fourth stringers -- a situation that will not arise in regular season action.
Everybody including Coughlin knows the last two offensive performances by the starters were putrid. But they are installing a new offense so it would be shocking if they were any better than that. Have a little patience with the O as a unit and keep an eye instead on individual players, that's where the real battles are for a while.
Take it as a given the Giants O will look putrid for the first game and a half in the regular season. If they don't, they're ahead of schedule. It they still look putrid into the second half of game 3, that will be disappointing - but not surprising, really. The O is almost surely going to struggle for a while. That's the deal, guys. If you can't handle that, you're going to want to take your significant other to some movies or museums on Sundays in September. Or maybe the Met. Take in a nice, long opera or two. By the time you come back to football, you'll appreciate it better.
likewise on defence there has also been some attrocious refering this preseason where blatant OL holds and false starts have been ignored entirely while the DB's have been penalised for looking hard at the opposing offences let alone doing anything worth a flag for if this continues into the regular season it wouldnt matter what the team plays like
they already have worrying injuries that could lose prince,taylor and kuhn for some periods potentially with the DL already thin thats an extra worry
this team has the pieces its just a matter of timing and playing as a team, which this team has proved recently they can come together to play better than the sum of thier parts and win a superbowl.
i like to think they can do it again but i do see they could just as easily fall apart like they did the first half of last year too time will tell which of the two is the case,the rest of the division and i include the eagles here arent any better off than the giants so they will have a shot at winning the division even with a less than stellar win total 9 or 10 wins maybe even 8-8 could take the division this year imho
i also like the way washington and soup have fought to make this roster and i like thier chances over manningham and jerrnigan at this point there is some positives to be found unless you only want to be a phrophet of doom if so good luck with that
"We play the Colts in the regular season. Do you think they are going to run everything they have at them now?"
Well, I realize they are saving their super secret plays for the regular season game.....I mean, it's not like the Colts are going to look at any of the Giant game films of the first 7 games to see what kind of plays the Giants tend to run....
But don't you expect them to execute the plays that they do run in preseason? At least some of them?
That being the reactions to preseason are almost always knee-jerk and rarely reflect on what the actual performance of the team is.
I keep hearing "Yeah, but we looked bad in preseason last year and look what happened". Hell, when you act as if the team is dogshit each preseason, it will eventually come to fruition.
I'll be the first to say I have no clue how the preseason translates to what the performance will be in the regular season. Sadly, that leaves me in the minority.
One thing that does bug me a little: the players have said that it is execution and not scheme that is the problem. If it is indeed the case that they are running the most vanilla plays they have, then execution shouldn't be the problem. If the vanilla plays are defended against, then fine, but if they're just screwing up the most basic routes and running plays in the book, that doesn't bode well.