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Francesser saying this is the Packers offense

drkenneth : 8/18/2014 2:48 pm
Ranting that McAdoo was brought here to run McCarthy's offense. He then reminded everyone how awesome Aaron Rodjizz is.

Is he right or wrong? How would he know?
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arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 2:51 pm : link
It's not the Packers offense. There will be similar elements but it's basically going to be elements of a WCO mixed in with some of the more vertical stuff TC prefers and a power running game. I keep hearing people say we're just running the GB offense. We're not.
Listening to Mike talk Giants is fantastic.  
drkenneth : 8/18/2014 2:52 pm : link
When asked by a caller when the last time the Giants had a TE, he calls Shockey a jerk, and says Bavaro. "That's a player."
There Is No Way We Can Run  
Aloha Alan : 8/18/2014 2:57 pm : link
the Packers Offense exactly here for two reasons:

1. The Packers QB is more accurate and substantially mobile than ours.

2. Our Offense will be dictated by "whatever" limitations our
QB has and our offense will be tailored to that.

In that aspect we will be the Giants Offense.

Eli is a poor fit for any WCO  
NYGmen58 : 8/18/2014 3:00 pm : link
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.

Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
They have been running that offense for years  
superspynyg : 8/18/2014 3:00 pm : link
we have been running it for a month.
RE: Eli is a poor fit for any WCO  
arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 3:01 pm : link
In comment 11812940 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.

Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!


I agree Eli is at his best throwing the deep ball but the issue last year (and so far this year) is that our protections are having so much trouble holding long enough to run those 5-7 step drops and wait for guys to get downfield.
RE: Eli is a poor fit for any WCO  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2014 3:06 pm : link
In comment 11812940 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.

Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!


You can take elements and build something that fits. We don't have nearly the offensive line to play that five step, look, look, 40+ yard bomb game. You can play that way when you have the horses up front. When you don't, you need to rely on quick outlets, running the football, and using the whole field.

It's not a black and white issue. People love to simplify things to "west coast offense" or "downfield offense" and say the pieces don't fit, but they're not going to install plays that require Eli to get out and run and rely on his mobility. He can roll out and throw on the run. That's what he did at Ole Miss. But he's not Rodgers or Kaepernick. And his arm, he can hit any route. His arm isn't too strong to throw short passes.
I hate when people say....  
BillKo : 8/18/2014 3:09 pm : link
..the WCO offense is a bad fit for Eli because he is immobile, esp when comparing him to Aaron Rodgers.

The reason Rodgers needs to be mobile is because his OL has been below average for a number of years....even when they won the SB he was taking shots.

If they could have AR sit back there and fling it, they would............
More important news  
yankees78 : 8/18/2014 3:17 pm : link
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A
Obviously  
muhajir : 8/18/2014 3:18 pm : link
He's here to run packers offense, slight changes not withstanding. Why else you think Coughlin hired him?
Just like  
muhajir : 8/18/2014 3:20 pm : link
When Coughlin wanted the Eagles heavy blitz D and hired Spags.
the giants  
hitdog42 : 8/18/2014 3:21 pm : link
have shot themselves in the foot so many times this preseason with 1 yard runs, blocking break downs, and penalties... that we cant yet see what offense this is... we arent on the field long enough or in normal down and distance. And the issues and breakdowns are often physical...
I would love to see us utilize the short aspect of the west coast game with swing passes and quick outs to TE to build confidence as the line molds and to get in better down and distance - in 3rd and 9 or 2nd and 15 no offense will look good.
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arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 3:21 pm : link
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.
"This is not my offense, this is the Giants offense"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2014 3:24 pm : link
-Ben McAdoo, multiple times.
RE: More important news  
arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 3:27 pm : link
In comment 11812989 yankees78 said:
Quote:
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A


I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.
RE: .  
muhajir : 8/18/2014 3:31 pm : link
In comment 11813006 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.


Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?
RE: RE: More important news  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2014 3:32 pm : link
In comment 11813020 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11812989 yankees78 said:


Quote:


Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A



I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.


It's the Summah of Francesser!
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 3:34 pm : link
In comment 11813037 muhajir said:
Quote:
In comment 11813006 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.



Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?


Ok, you just are not paying attention then. It has been said multiple times that this will not be the Packers offense. Will some elements of what they do come over here? Yes, that is the idea. But Coughlin is still going to have an influence on this offense (which has been confirmed) and McAdoo was not the Packers OC (nor was Spags the Eagles DC when we hired him)

Having elements of the Packers offense in our system does not mean we are running their offense.

There is a difference.
More like  
muhajir : 8/18/2014 3:49 pm : link
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.
RE: They have been running that offense for years  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2014 3:50 pm : link
In comment 11812942 superspynyg said:
Quote:
we have been running it for a month.


True. But even still, you'd like to see them be alittle bit better then they've been these past 2 pre-season games. It's still early, though. So, hopefully they improve...soon.
Mike's golf buddies  
drkenneth : 8/18/2014 3:51 pm : link
coming on the show...lol
RE: More like  
arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 3:53 pm : link
In comment 11813083 muhajir said:
Quote:
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.


Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
How do we know that the Giants are running the Packers offense?  
mikeinbloomfield : 8/18/2014 3:53 pm : link
It's been said over and over again that they are still installing, and they don't want to show too much on tape. We play the Colts in November, if there's one team where we won't show our hand, its in a game against them. That's not to say our offense looked anywhere near competent on Saturday, and they seem to me to be running out of time. But I do not work for the Giants, and neither does Francessa.

Secondly, to say that Eli would is not a fit for a WCO is ridiculous. The WCO is predicated on getting the ball in the hands of receivers early and letting them run with it. A "mobile" QB is useful in the WCO for the stretch plays that they run, but he doesn't have to be Donovan McNabb. I don't think anyone thinks of Joe Montana as a "mobile" QB.

A good QB is a good QB, and Eli can make all the throws any system requires. I think a lot of their current issues is just getting enough practice and getting in sync.
Whatever it is, it's going to be very similar to their offense.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2014 3:58 pm : link
Eli:

""I think it will be similar to what they did in Green Bay," Manning said Tuesday while sporting a walking boot fresh off ankle surgery. "That's where Ben came from, so I think it will be pretty similar to that offense."

Cruz:

"Its a high-powered offense, high octane. We got a little taste of it so far and Im excited about it, Cruz said. If anyone watches Green Bay, they know they score a lot of points and get up and down the field pretty quickly. And they put up a lot of big plays. So were excited about that.



Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: More like  
muhajir : 8/18/2014 4:00 pm : link
In comment 11813097 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11813083 muhajir said:


Quote:


Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.



Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.


The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?
Thought is was Coughlin's offense Mike?  
Giants2012 : 8/18/2014 4:01 pm : link
Francesa claims this is the Packers offense only months removed from ridiculing/scolding any WFAN caller not believing it was still Coughlin's offense.
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arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 4:03 pm : link
Ok, first of all. That article is from April. It's August. At that point in time, they had barely even dove into the playbook and everything Eli said was based on speculation and what he "envisioned"

"It's not going to be easy. Manning admitted his mind was swimming at the moment, only two days into the new playbook. The Giants didn't even get to the passing plays yet. They were still digesting some of the run-game concepts and formations.

2 days into the playbook, I'm fairly certain a guy isn't going to know a whole lot about what's being run and I also doubt that Eli is/was well-versed in the GB offense at that point in time especially.

And he blatantly says at the end "This is Ben McAdoo's offense" , so.. it's not McCarthy's, and it's not the Packers.

Will there be similarities? No shit, that's the point. But people have been asking if we're just running the Packers offense since he got here and never once was that simply answered "yes."
RE: RE: RE: More like  
arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 4:06 pm : link
In comment 11813113 muhajir said:
Quote:
In comment 11813097 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 11813083 muhajir said:


Quote:


Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.



Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.



The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?


It was said numerous times that Coughlin would have an influence on the offense. He was not going to be completely hands off and uninvolved.

No, they're not reinventing the wheel. They don't need to. Like I said early in the thread. They are taking elements of the WCO but Coughlin still wants there to be a power running game and he still wants there to be downfield attacking as was the focal point since he's been here.

They don't need to "invent" an offense to do those things.
RE: More important news  
micky : 8/18/2014 4:08 pm : link
In comment 11812989 yankees78 said:
Quote:
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A


Oh no..da popes' doo (Meanwhile, what will keep all his diet cokes cold then?)
.  
kepler20 : 8/18/2014 4:10 pm : link
in other news:

The sky is blue and water is wet.


Francesser is getting long in the tooth. Maybe also in the brain.
Meh, it's Eli Manning.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2014 4:10 pm : link
If he felt that him saying this offense reminded him of the Packers wasn't accurate, he wouldn't say it. Pretty much every quote he gives to the media is a measured response. Cruz said the same thing. I'll take what they have to say on the manner and feel pretty confident that they're right about it.
If this is the Packer's Offense then  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2014 4:11 pm : link
we should give it back as soon as possible...
Those quote from Eli and Cruz are from April.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2014 4:12 pm : link
they didn't even get playbooks until about a month ago.

They were speaking from assumption.
Francessa is a simple man  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/18/2014 4:12 pm : link
who needs to make declarative statements for a living... so comments like that will happen. But not, this is obviously not "The Packers Offense."

That being said, after seeing a preview of it so far this preseason, I must admit, I am starting to become a little concerned that Eli's lack of mobility might have a bigger negative impact than I thought on the elements that do come from the Green Bay influence.

Naturally, the west coast elements of this offense will have the tight end, running backs and full backs spread out often. Meaning, any time there's a blitz, we won't need Eli to be a mobile quarterback, but we will need our lineman to get just enough of a chip on a blitzer AND we will need Eli to then have great pocket presence, step up, and make a quick read and a quick throw.

It's still very, very early and perhaps Eli isn't comfortable yet (entirely understandable, if not expected), but so far, he's seemed very stationary, even for him, and I worry how that lack of ability on his part will translate when it counts.
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arcarsenal : 8/18/2014 4:14 pm : link
How exactly would A) Eli Manning know the Packers offense, and B) how would he know this was it if he hadn't even looked at any of the pass plays in the playbook when he had said that?

He was simply making an assumption. It was quite obvious in the article.
RE: Those quote from Eli and Cruz are from April.  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/18/2014 4:15 pm : link
In comment 11813146 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
they didn't even get playbooks until about a month ago.

They were speaking from assumption.


If you read the very first paragraph in that article, you would know that that wasn't true.
Get ready for a long transition.  
shabu : 8/18/2014 6:12 pm : link
If you guys think this thing is going to come out of the gates and blow up the NFL I think you are smoking something that i would perhaps like to smoke.

Its going to take a season or 2 to run on all cylinders.... Just like it took when Eli came here and TC did.

Let's just hope they don't take too long and stabilize that OL.
Well, we don't have Aaron Rodgers so our OC  
Some Fan : 8/18/2014 6:16 pm : link
better be running an offense that our talent can run.
RE: Eli is a poor fit for any WCO  
mdc1 : 8/18/2014 8:17 pm : link
In comment 11812940 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.

Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!


Agree. I think Eli is going to be a coin flip on this. He either gets it together or we may (gasp) see him become an irrelevant interception machine.

Has Eli ever played in a west coast system before? Just curious.
This is a peculiar argument.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/18/2014 10:30 pm : link
Coughlin played offense in college, was a receivers coach with the Giants, is an offense coach. He delegates the D but not the O. Sure, he brought in an OC, but he's not a hands-off guy who would prefer to recruit free agents, hire a staff and then be free to do his TV and radio spots while the assistants do the real coaching, like some older college coaches are reputed to have done. It's not his style as a coach or a man.
RE: This is a peculiar argument.  
BigBlueinChicago : 8/18/2014 10:57 pm : link
In comment 11813661 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Coughlin played offense in college, was a receivers coach with the Giants, is an offense coach. He delegates the D but not the O. Sure, he brought in an OC, but he's not a hands-off guy who would prefer to recruit free agents, hire a staff and then be free to do his TV and radio spots while the assistants do the real coaching, like some older college coaches are reputed to have done. It's not his style as a coach or a man.


Which is why it has always been said that it is "Tom's Offense."

While the OC has the title for employment purposes, his fingerprints are all over the gameplans. And why wouldn't they be? He was brought up as an offensive coach his whole coaching career. He has his concepts, philosophies and principles. And he's the head coach. What he wants in there is going to go down.

This is why the criticism of the whole thing came to a boil in the 2nd Dallas game last year. The offense was gashing them on the ground and for some reason kept putting the ball in the air to little success.

Coughlin would explain later that he wanted one of his old trademarks, "balance," despite all evidence in that game that suggested such logic was foolish.

As the coach, he has significant input on the offensive plan for each game, and will as long as he's the coach. McAdoo will do his work and have his say. But the final approval on everything remains with the coach.

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