It's not the Packers offense. There will be similar elements but it's basically going to be elements of a WCO mixed in with some of the more vertical stuff TC prefers and a power running game. I keep hearing people say we're just running the GB offense. We're not.
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
I agree Eli is at his best throwing the deep ball but the issue last year (and so far this year) is that our protections are having so much trouble holding long enough to run those 5-7 step drops and wait for guys to get downfield.
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
You can take elements and build something that fits. We don't have nearly the offensive line to play that five step, look, look, 40+ yard bomb game. You can play that way when you have the horses up front. When you don't, you need to rely on quick outlets, running the football, and using the whole field.
It's not a black and white issue. People love to simplify things to "west coast offense" or "downfield offense" and say the pieces don't fit, but they're not going to install plays that require Eli to get out and run and rely on his mobility. He can roll out and throw on the run. That's what he did at Ole Miss. But he's not Rodgers or Kaepernick. And his arm, he can hit any route. His arm isn't too strong to throw short passes.
have shot themselves in the foot so many times this preseason with 1 yard runs, blocking break downs, and penalties... that we cant yet see what offense this is... we arent on the field long enough or in normal down and distance. And the issues and breakdowns are often physical...
I would love to see us utilize the short aspect of the west coast game with swing passes and quick outs to TE to build confidence as the line molds and to get in better down and distance - in 3rd and 9 or 2nd and 15 no offense will look good.
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.
"This is not my offense, this is the Giants offense" Â
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A
I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.
Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A
I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.
Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?
Ok, you just are not paying attention then. It has been said multiple times that this will not be the Packers offense. Will some elements of what they do come over here? Yes, that is the idea. But Coughlin is still going to have an influence on this offense (which has been confirmed) and McAdoo was not the Packers OC (nor was Spags the Eagles DC when we hired him)
Having elements of the Packers offense in our system does not mean we are running their offense.
True. But even still, you'd like to see them be alittle bit better then they've been these past 2 pre-season games. It's still early, though. So, hopefully they improve...soon.
It's been said over and over again that they are still installing, and they don't want to show too much on tape. We play the Colts in November, if there's one team where we won't show our hand, its in a game against them. That's not to say our offense looked anywhere near competent on Saturday, and they seem to me to be running out of time. But I do not work for the Giants, and neither does Francessa.
Secondly, to say that Eli would is not a fit for a WCO is ridiculous. The WCO is predicated on getting the ball in the hands of receivers early and letting them run with it. A "mobile" QB is useful in the WCO for the stretch plays that they run, but he doesn't have to be Donovan McNabb. I don't think anyone thinks of Joe Montana as a "mobile" QB.
A good QB is a good QB, and Eli can make all the throws any system requires. I think a lot of their current issues is just getting enough practice and getting in sync.
Whatever it is, it's going to be very similar to their offense. Â
""I think it will be similar to what they did in Green Bay," Manning said Tuesday while sporting a walking boot fresh off ankle surgery. "That's where Ben came from, so I think it will be pretty similar to that offense."
Cruz:
"It’s a high-powered offense, high octane. We got a little taste of it so far and I’m excited about it,” Cruz said. “If anyone watches Green Bay, they know they score a lot of points and get up and down the field pretty quickly. And they put up a lot of big plays. So we’re excited about that.”
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.
Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?
Francesa claims this is the Packers offense only months removed from ridiculing/scolding any WFAN caller not believing it was still Coughlin's offense.
Ok, first of all. That article is from April. It's August. At that point in time, they had barely even dove into the playbook and everything Eli said was based on speculation and what he "envisioned"
"It's not going to be easy. Manning admitted his mind was swimming at the moment, only two days into the new playbook. The Giants didn't even get to the passing plays yet. They were still digesting some of the run-game concepts and formations.
2 days into the playbook, I'm fairly certain a guy isn't going to know a whole lot about what's being run and I also doubt that Eli is/was well-versed in the GB offense at that point in time especially.
And he blatantly says at the end "This is Ben McAdoo's offense" , so.. it's not McCarthy's, and it's not the Packers.
Will there be similarities? No shit, that's the point. But people have been asking if we're just running the Packers offense since he got here and never once was that simply answered "yes."
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.
Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?
It was said numerous times that Coughlin would have an influence on the offense. He was not going to be completely hands off and uninvolved.
No, they're not reinventing the wheel. They don't need to. Like I said early in the thread. They are taking elements of the WCO but Coughlin still wants there to be a power running game and he still wants there to be downfield attacking as was the focal point since he's been here.
They don't need to "invent" an offense to do those things.
If he felt that him saying this offense reminded him of the Packers wasn't accurate, he wouldn't say it. Pretty much every quote he gives to the media is a measured response. Cruz said the same thing. I'll take what they have to say on the manner and feel pretty confident that they're right about it.
who needs to make declarative statements for a living... so comments like that will happen. But not, this is obviously not "The Packers Offense."
That being said, after seeing a preview of it so far this preseason, I must admit, I am starting to become a little concerned that Eli's lack of mobility might have a bigger negative impact than I thought on the elements that do come from the Green Bay influence.
Naturally, the west coast elements of this offense will have the tight end, running backs and full backs spread out often. Meaning, any time there's a blitz, we won't need Eli to be a mobile quarterback, but we will need our lineman to get just enough of a chip on a blitzer AND we will need Eli to then have great pocket presence, step up, and make a quick read and a quick throw.
It's still very, very early and perhaps Eli isn't comfortable yet (entirely understandable, if not expected), but so far, he's seemed very stationary, even for him, and I worry how that lack of ability on his part will translate when it counts.
How exactly would A) Eli Manning know the Packers offense, and B) how would he know this was it if he hadn't even looked at any of the pass plays in the playbook when he had said that?
He was simply making an assumption. It was quite obvious in the article.
RE: Those quote from Eli and Cruz are from April. Â
If you guys think this thing is going to come out of the gates and blow up the NFL I think you are smoking something that i would perhaps like to smoke.
Its going to take a season or 2 to run on all cylinders.... Just like it took when Eli came here and TC did.
Let's just hope they don't take too long and stabilize that OL.
It is ideal for mobile, smaller, QBs who don't have big-time arms, basically the complete opposite of eli, who is a statue with a cannon who's strength is his downfield passing ability.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
Agree. I think Eli is going to be a coin flip on this. He either gets it together or we may (gasp) see him become an irrelevant interception machine.
Has Eli ever played in a west coast system before? Just curious.
Coughlin played offense in college, was a receivers coach with the Giants, is an offense coach. He delegates the D but not the O. Sure, he brought in an OC, but he's not a hands-off guy who would prefer to recruit free agents, hire a staff and then be free to do his TV and radio spots while the assistants do the real coaching, like some older college coaches are reputed to have done. It's not his style as a coach or a man.
Coughlin played offense in college, was a receivers coach with the Giants, is an offense coach. He delegates the D but not the O. Sure, he brought in an OC, but he's not a hands-off guy who would prefer to recruit free agents, hire a staff and then be free to do his TV and radio spots while the assistants do the real coaching, like some older college coaches are reputed to have done. It's not his style as a coach or a man.
Which is why it has always been said that it is "Tom's Offense."
While the OC has the title for employment purposes, his fingerprints are all over the gameplans. And why wouldn't they be? He was brought up as an offensive coach his whole coaching career. He has his concepts, philosophies and principles. And he's the head coach. What he wants in there is going to go down.
This is why the criticism of the whole thing came to a boil in the 2nd Dallas game last year. The offense was gashing them on the ground and for some reason kept putting the ball in the air to little success.
Coughlin would explain later that he wanted one of his old trademarks, "balance," despite all evidence in that game that suggested such logic was foolish.
As the coach, he has significant input on the offensive plan for each game, and will as long as he's the coach. McAdoo will do his work and have his say. But the final approval on everything remains with the coach.
1. The Packers QB is more accurate and substantially mobile than ours.
2. Our Offense will be dictated by "whatever" limitations our
QB has and our offense will be tailored to that.
In that aspect we will be the Giants Offense.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
I agree Eli is at his best throwing the deep ball but the issue last year (and so far this year) is that our protections are having so much trouble holding long enough to run those 5-7 step drops and wait for guys to get downfield.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
You can take elements and build something that fits. We don't have nearly the offensive line to play that five step, look, look, 40+ yard bomb game. You can play that way when you have the horses up front. When you don't, you need to rely on quick outlets, running the football, and using the whole field.
It's not a black and white issue. People love to simplify things to "west coast offense" or "downfield offense" and say the pieces don't fit, but they're not going to install plays that require Eli to get out and run and rely on his mobility. He can roll out and throw on the run. That's what he did at Ole Miss. But he's not Rodgers or Kaepernick. And his arm, he can hit any route. His arm isn't too strong to throw short passes.
The reason Rodgers needs to be mobile is because his OL has been below average for a number of years....even when they won the SB he was taking shots.
If they could have AR sit back there and fling it, they would............
I would love to see us utilize the short aspect of the west coast game with swing passes and quick outs to TE to build confidence as the line molds and to get in better down and distance - in 3rd and 9 or 2nd and 15 no offense will look good.
I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.
Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?
Quote:
Franceser announced he will do the Ice Bucket Challenge on Friday at Bar A
I am stunned. He never lets anything mess up his hair. He's got to be putting on something to protect it. I just cannot imagine he will let his head get soaked in public.
It's the Summah of Francesser!
Quote:
Just because you hire an assistant from another team doesn't mean they come here and run the exact scheme from the team they came from. Spags didn't run the Eagles defense here and McAdoo isn't going to run the Packers offense.
Giants D became identical to Eagles. And why in the world would Coughlin hire an assistant from a different system who has never been a coordinator unless he wants him to run that system that he's worked under for 10yrs ?
Ok, you just are not paying attention then. It has been said multiple times that this will not be the Packers offense. Will some elements of what they do come over here? Yes, that is the idea. But Coughlin is still going to have an influence on this offense (which has been confirmed) and McAdoo was not the Packers OC (nor was Spags the Eagles DC when we hired him)
Having elements of the Packers offense in our system does not mean we are running their offense.
There is a difference.
True. But even still, you'd like to see them be alittle bit better then they've been these past 2 pre-season games. It's still early, though. So, hopefully they improve...soon.
Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
Secondly, to say that Eli would is not a fit for a WCO is ridiculous. The WCO is predicated on getting the ball in the hands of receivers early and letting them run with it. A "mobile" QB is useful in the WCO for the stretch plays that they run, but he doesn't have to be Donovan McNabb. I don't think anyone thinks of Joe Montana as a "mobile" QB.
A good QB is a good QB, and Eli can make all the throws any system requires. I think a lot of their current issues is just getting enough practice and getting in sync.
""I think it will be similar to what they did in Green Bay," Manning said Tuesday while sporting a walking boot fresh off ankle surgery. "That's where Ben came from, so I think it will be pretty similar to that offense."
Cruz:
"It’s a high-powered offense, high octane. We got a little taste of it so far and I’m excited about it,” Cruz said. “If anyone watches Green Bay, they know they score a lot of points and get up and down the field pretty quickly. And they put up a lot of big plays. So we’re excited about that.”
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.
Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?
"It's not going to be easy. Manning admitted his mind was swimming at the moment, only two days into the new playbook. The Giants didn't even get to the passing plays yet. They were still digesting some of the run-game concepts and formations.
2 days into the playbook, I'm fairly certain a guy isn't going to know a whole lot about what's being run and I also doubt that Eli is/was well-versed in the GB offense at that point in time especially.
And he blatantly says at the end "This is Ben McAdoo's offense" , so.. it's not McCarthy's, and it's not the Packers.
Will there be similarities? No shit, that's the point. But people have been asking if we're just running the Packers offense since he got here and never once was that simply answered "yes."
Quote:
In comment 11813083 muhajir said:
Quote:
Packers offense with shades of things Eli and Coughlin like.
Please show me one thing that says we are running the Packers offense.
The major evidence is the fact that we hired Gb's former te/qb coach that only has experience in running GB's system. Also the fact that the wrs and qb have all mentioned the significant differences in systems, the fact we keep hearing how it's being 'installed' part by part, Eli saying its taking time to get a grasp of the new system etc.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are suggesting McAdoo and Coughlin have sat down together and designed a new offensive system (which actually takes yrs and yrs to do) or that McAdoo is running Coughlin offense but with a few elements of GBs offense mixed in?
It was said numerous times that Coughlin would have an influence on the offense. He was not going to be completely hands off and uninvolved.
No, they're not reinventing the wheel. They don't need to. Like I said early in the thread. They are taking elements of the WCO but Coughlin still wants there to be a power running game and he still wants there to be downfield attacking as was the focal point since he's been here.
They don't need to "invent" an offense to do those things.
Oh no..da popes' doo (Meanwhile, what will keep all his diet cokes cold then?)
The sky is blue and water is wet.
Francesser is getting long in the tooth. Maybe also in the brain.
They were speaking from assumption.
That being said, after seeing a preview of it so far this preseason, I must admit, I am starting to become a little concerned that Eli's lack of mobility might have a bigger negative impact than I thought on the elements that do come from the Green Bay influence.
Naturally, the west coast elements of this offense will have the tight end, running backs and full backs spread out often. Meaning, any time there's a blitz, we won't need Eli to be a mobile quarterback, but we will need our lineman to get just enough of a chip on a blitzer AND we will need Eli to then have great pocket presence, step up, and make a quick read and a quick throw.
It's still very, very early and perhaps Eli isn't comfortable yet (entirely understandable, if not expected), but so far, he's seemed very stationary, even for him, and I worry how that lack of ability on his part will translate when it counts.
He was simply making an assumption. It was quite obvious in the article.
They were speaking from assumption.
If you read the very first paragraph in that article, you would know that that wasn't true.
Its going to take a season or 2 to run on all cylinders.... Just like it took when Eli came here and TC did.
Let's just hope they don't take too long and stabilize that OL.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. Yikes!
Agree. I think Eli is going to be a coin flip on this. He either gets it together or we may (gasp) see him become an irrelevant interception machine.
Has Eli ever played in a west coast system before? Just curious.
Which is why it has always been said that it is "Tom's Offense."
While the OC has the title for employment purposes, his fingerprints are all over the gameplans. And why wouldn't they be? He was brought up as an offensive coach his whole coaching career. He has his concepts, philosophies and principles. And he's the head coach. What he wants in there is going to go down.
This is why the criticism of the whole thing came to a boil in the 2nd Dallas game last year. The offense was gashing them on the ground and for some reason kept putting the ball in the air to little success.
Coughlin would explain later that he wanted one of his old trademarks, "balance," despite all evidence in that game that suggested such logic was foolish.
As the coach, he has significant input on the offensive plan for each game, and will as long as he's the coach. McAdoo will do his work and have his say. But the final approval on everything remains with the coach.