is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
That's not to say that something else will be found in the forensics Â
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
whatever the truth is ....should come out. I did hear that woman calling into Dana Loesch's radio show and say that the officer did indeed learn about the robbery after he stopped the men for jaywalking Link - ( New Window )
you might be dumber than I thought. She asserts that she is a family friend. While we cannot verify it (as with so many "details"), there is this:
Quote:
After airing the audio, Don Lemon cautioned viewers that, as with any witness account, this is unproven and simply just another side of the story. However, he noted, CNN confirmed that Josie’s account of the story matches what the network’s sources say police have told investigators
If prosecutors are able to get Dorian Johnson to recant his story (the guy still has an outstanding warrant), then the GJ will have stories that match, evidence that suggests Brown was shot from the front, eyewitnesses that saw him charge the officer and injuries to the officer's face. That should be good enough for a no bill.
Does that mean that Gov Nixon wouldn't appoint a special prosecutor? No. He might decide the hell with the GJ, I'm going forward anyways. Crump and Parks want the special prosecutor. CNN thinks Josie is real. - ( New Window )
Crump and Parks do not dispute that Brown engaged the officer at his cruiser. They are asserting that the officer put his hands around the neck of a 6'4" 290 pound man while seated in the cruiser.
he's upset because I linked audio of a caller into a radio station who says she is a family friend and wanted to get the officer's side of the story out.
He thinks that's ridiculous. I am pointing out that she seems to be asserting the same information that the police told investigators. So it makes her comments more relevant.
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
Maybe it's just me, but his condescending tone takes away from the overall message.
Is that really a surprise though? The majority I've come across in Philly have awful attitudes and talk to you like you're an idiot. Personally I think it's just too much power and authority for most people. As for this though, he's pretty much right...
" Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
A lot of these alterations would be completely avoided if more people simply realized that arguing with a cop is about as useful as an asshole full of teeth. You're NEVER going to win, even if you are right and the cop is being a condescending prick. When a cop stops you you are at their mercy. The nest thing you could do is shut up, do exactly what they say, and remain respectful no matter how ignorant they may be. If you do that a situation will never escalate, and if you were really treated that poorly you can always file a complaint. But arguing,telling a cop what he can and can't do, or even worse, simply ignore his instructions well then you have no one to blame for yourself for the uncomfortable position you're sure to find yourself in.
When is this crap in ferguson going to end? it's not as long Â
as cops keep acting like this one in video below. How anyone can argue this is a professional, this is how peace officers should conduct themselves,like thugs and bullies threatening and swearing at unarmed noin threeatening protesters while this guy goes around pointing his assault rifle at everyone and his brother ( this is ok, but the kid with the pellet gun in walmart deserved to get shot, right?) telling them to go fuck themselves and saying "i'm gonna kill you" isn't the issue, the protesters are. OK.Bullshit.This needs to stop. Now.Tell me how this isn't "militarized police" acting like fucking goons. Link - ( New Window )
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Squeezing off a half-dozen shots over the span of a couple seconds is not especially galling. People hone in on that but it's really one of the less objectionable pieces of the story. If it happened that fast, and it seems to have, the appropriateness of the first shot is what's at issue.
Not necessarily. First shot may have occurred during struggle. If Brown took off running the shots fired in pursuit as well as any shots fired after he stooped running may be the most important.
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
Not necessarily. First shot may have occurred during struggle. If Brown took off running the shots fired in pursuit as well as any shots fired after he stooped running may be the most important.
I meant the first shot that hit him. Unless there was a delay between those, the ones that hit him seem to be from a single, continuous string of shots.
Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
The specifics of the case, at this point in time, is that law enforcement shot and killed an unarmed 18 year old.
until all the facts are in. I don't feel compelled to reach a conclusion re: this issue until then. Have a sense of what happened but again all the facts aren't in yet.
Video of 19 year old killed yesterday by St Louis PD Â
guy stole a couple of soda cans, put them on the ground and waited for police. They arrived, he yelled "shoot me" they obliged.Cops claim he had a knife raised high over his head and was a "few feet" from then when they fired.Doesn't look quite like that to me.Don't see how protests end as long as this keeps happening.Form your own opinions as to whether this kid needed to get 12 rds put into him, 6 after he hit the ground.
The police report mentions nothing about the knife being over his head.
Looks justified to me. They told him several times to drop the knife. He instead continued walking towards them shouting "kill me" and "shoot me". I've read that many witnesses agree that it was justified and believe it was suicide by cop. I don't have links supporting that though... LINK - ( New Window )
From statements made by Chief Dotson directly to St. Louis dispatch:
"The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Two arriving officers ordered Powell to get down, but he became more agitated and walked toward them, reaching for his waistband. Witnesses told police the man was yelling, “Shoot me, kill me now,” during the encounter, Dotson said.
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell." Link - ( New Window )
It is to far for me to tell if he had a knife, but if he was holding one it certainly wasn't over his head and you can hear the officers saying to "drop the knife". Also he clearly was the aggressor in the situation as far as that he was the one approaching the police and not the other way around. They did give him plenty of verbal warning while they had their weapons drawn and every chance to drop the knife and stop approaching.
Why in the world anyone would aggressively approach police holding a knife yelling at them to "shoot me" is beyond me.
"As someone often defending the little guy
Randy in CT : 5:27 pm : link : reply
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case."
I would add that it is more likely than not that this "kid" was going to end up in prison before ever attaining a college degree!
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
I had an orbital eye socket injury (multiple fractures - "buckle" fracture it was called) ... I got hit during an adult hardball game ... Hit in the face while heading back to 2nd base on a pick-off move from the pitcher). I played the rest of the game after that ... the next day I was IN A WORLD OF HURT!!! So there goes the theory of .. "well the officer is still walking around after having his eye socket fractured ...". Plus, can you imagine the amount of adrenaline being pumped through one's body in a situation like that? Adrenaline can COMPLETELY mask any pain from serious injury for quite a while I'd say. Any doctors here want to certify this???
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
Bake54 is stating in this thread. This story just makes me say .... Thank goodness I chose NOT to become a police officer after getting out of the Army back in '90!!! A thankless and very tough job!!! To say the LEAST!!!!
The point is you are trying to change their story for them. You claimed they said he had it over his head. That is absolutely not true, at least not in the link you provided.
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
I don't know what you are trying to say...
I said the police claimed he was holding a knife up. Â
you diaagreed and said the police made no such statement. I posted the link from the paper who recorded that statement from the police chief directly to them.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
you diaagreed and said the police made no such statement. I posted the link from the paper who recorded that statement from the police chief directly to them.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
Go look at what you said. You said over his head...when your link doesn't show them saying that.
I think he would have made a point if he had been unarmed and instead of continue to approach them when warned not to had listened to them, and then gotten shot.
Quote:
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
I don't see how anyone can possibly form a conclusion based on the accounts in the media. However, if forced to choose, I'd probably agree with Randy. Fortunately, none of us has to decide so doing so simply reveals your bias.
in the lengthy debate, but have to say I'm impressed it hadn't escalated into a thread that was deleted.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
in the lengthy debate, but have to say I'm impressed it hadn't escalated into a thread that was deleted.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
Speaking of which, what happened to the other Ferguson thread?
Ed Magee, a spokesperson for the ​St. Louis County prosecutor’s office told the Washington Post that McCulloch “has been in touch with Wilson’s attorney but has not spoken to Wilson himself.”
Regarding the dead teen, you asked "how do you see it not looking good...?".
I particularly enjoy how that guy lumps in actual threats with cursing and rudeness and -the gall of those uppity civilians- arguing with the cop.
In other words, rudeness is an acceptable justification for the use of force.
Quote:
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
I particularly enjoy how that guy lumps in actual threats with cursing and rudeness and -the gall of those uppity civilians- arguing with the cop.
In other words, rudeness is an acceptable justification for the use of force.
"THEY DARKY'S COMIN' RIGHT FOR US" defense should work wonders.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Jesus Christ. You're not this stupid, are you?
If prosecutors are able to get Dorian Johnson to recant his story (the guy still has an outstanding warrant), then the GJ will have stories that match, evidence that suggests Brown was shot from the front, eyewitnesses that saw him charge the officer and injuries to the officer's face. That should be good enough for a no bill.
Does that mean that Gov Nixon wouldn't appoint a special prosecutor? No. He might decide the hell with the GJ, I'm going forward anyways. Crump and Parks want the special prosecutor.
CNN thinks Josie is real. - ( New Window )
He thinks that's ridiculous. I am pointing out that she seems to be asserting the same information that the police told investigators. So it makes her comments more relevant.
Quote:
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
Maybe it's just me, but his condescending tone takes away from the overall message.
Is that really a surprise though? The majority I've come across in Philly have awful attitudes and talk to you like you're an idiot. Personally I think it's just too much power and authority for most people. As for this though, he's pretty much right...
" Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
A lot of these alterations would be completely avoided if more people simply realized that arguing with a cop is about as useful as an asshole full of teeth. You're NEVER going to win, even if you are right and the cop is being a condescending prick. When a cop stops you you are at their mercy. The nest thing you could do is shut up, do exactly what they say, and remain respectful no matter how ignorant they may be. If you do that a situation will never escalate, and if you were really treated that poorly you can always file a complaint. But arguing,telling a cop what he can and can't do, or even worse, simply ignore his instructions well then you have no one to blame for yourself for the uncomfortable position you're sure to find yourself in.
Link - ( New Window )
Thug beat officer before shooting in self defense - ( New Window )
Quote:
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Squeezing off a half-dozen shots over the span of a couple seconds is not especially galling. People hone in on that but it's really one of the less objectionable pieces of the story. If it happened that fast, and it seems to have, the appropriateness of the first shot is what's at issue.
Do you really have to post this in both of the threads? Really?
Quote:
before he was forced to defend himself by using his firearm: Thug beat officer before shooting in self defense - ( New Window )
Do you really have to post this in both of the threads? Really?
Yes. Yes, I really do.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
I meant the first shot that hit him. Unless there was a delay between those, the ones that hit him seem to be from a single, continuous string of shots.
The specifics of the case, at this point in time, is that law enforcement shot and killed an unarmed 18 year old.
I could be wrong here...
Warning: Video is graphic.A young man dies.
Link - ( New Window )
Looks justified to me. They told him several times to drop the knife. He instead continued walking towards them shouting "kill me" and "shoot me". I've read that many witnesses agree that it was justified and believe it was suicide by cop. I don't have links supporting that though...
LINK - ( New Window )
"The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Two arriving officers ordered Powell to get down, but he became more agitated and walked toward them, reaching for his waistband. Witnesses told police the man was yelling, “Shoot me, kill me now,” during the encounter, Dotson said.
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell."
Link - ( New Window )
Why in the world anyone would aggressively approach police holding a knife yelling at them to "shoot me" is beyond me.
Simply horrible to watch.
"As someone often defending the little guy
Randy in CT : 5:27 pm : link : reply
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case."
I would add that it is more likely than not that this "kid" was going to end up in prison before ever attaining a college degree!
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
The point is you are trying to change their story for them. You claimed they said he had it over his head. That is absolutely not true, at least not in the link you provided.
Quote:
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
I don't know what you are trying to say...
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
Go look at what you said. You said over his head...when your link doesn't show them saying that.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
***Warning it is graphic****
link - ( New Window )
It leaves the case of an unarmed teenager - or thug or criminal or whatever you want to call this guy - 290 lbs or not, dangling.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
Speaking of which, what happened to the other Ferguson thread?