if they jailed all of the Ferguson police and started sorting out which ones actually committed crimes. These police officers need to be brought to justice plain and simple.
massive force was used. For example, 50 caliber machine guns were used to destroy buildings that were the source of sniper fire. That is how those stopped. Many more people died than what was ever reported. Those sections of Newark never recovered and remained rubble for decades and are probably still rubble. So there is that to look forward to also.
The media is force feeding this so much I can't turn the TV on until it goes away.
Oh and I can't stand Al Sharpton. The African American community will never be taken seriously as long as it keeps putting him in the forefront as some kind of leader and moral compass every time there is an issue.
Are you kidding? First is was, 'we want his name'. They have that. Then it will be if he's arrested, then the trial. And then if he's found not guilty.
Many of the people there don't believe Brown was the person in the robbery video. This is about more than the shooting.
And it would help if the media and just about everyone else would back off.
I'll let everyone know at the next meeting that you don't take us seriously. After we vote out Al as the Supreme Leader of All Blacks, we'll call you to see who we should nominate for the position.
then it was "those heavy-handed, militarized county cops." Now it's the state police and on-scene commanders hugging locals and the rioting continues. While there are undoubtedly problems with the way much of this was handled, especially after the first night of rioting, the persistence of this suggests that maybe it has less to do with the police and more to do with the people perpetrating this. Who knows, maybe if Eric Holder comes down with a bullhorn and a few truckloads of FBI agents this whole thing will dissipate. This is the sound of me holding my breath.
acceptable version of "justice" is predetermined in the mind of those feeling aggrieved.
Sadly, I guess that is to be the somewhat expected result when you have much of the media and a good portion of the country telling them precicly that very thing, in spite of none of them knowing any of the actual details of what occurred.
has already convicted the officer in the court of public opinion based on his own statements and the DOJ actions. Him going down is just hyper inflating the tension even more.
In a rare moment aside from sending Holder down there, I think that Obama has been remarkably restrained and talkative about steps needed which is a big change from prior racially charged incidents.
then it was "those heavy-handed, militarized county cops." Now it's the state police and on-scene commanders hugging locals and the rioting continues. While there are undoubtedly problems with the way much of this was handled, especially after the first night of rioting, the persistence of this suggests that maybe it has less to do with the police and more to do with the people perpetrating this. Who knows, maybe if Eric Holder comes down with a bullhorn and a few truckloads of FBI agents this whole thing will dissipate. This is the sound of me holding my breath.
You really don't see the possibility that the police are antagonizing this stuff now?
Quote:
Here are Tapper's full remarks, via Mediaite:
I want to show you this, okay? To give you an idea of what’s going on. The protesters have moved all the way down there… they’re all the way down there. Nobody is threatening anything. Nobody is doing anything. None of the stores here that I can see are being looted. There is no violence.
Now I want you to look at what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri, in downtown America, okay? These are armed police, with — not machine guns — semi-automatic rifles, with batons, with shields, many of them dressed for combat. Now why they’re doing this? I don’t know. Because there is no threat going on here. None that merits this. There is none, okay? Absolutely there have been looters, absolutely over the last nine days there’s been violence, but there is nothing going on on this street right now that merits this scene out of Bagram. Nothing.
So if people wonder why the people of Ferguson, Missouri are so upset, this is part of the reason. What is this? This doesn’t make any sense.
we had all the feel-good stories about the state police taking over and the attitudes changing just a day or two ago. Either every department is rotten to the core or the dynamics owed a lot more to the other side of this dispute than to marauding policemen.
authority willing to arrest the officer, then they can proceed with their civil lawsuit so they can get money. I wonder if the mother (who did not have custody of the young man) trademarked the Justice For Michael Brown slogan?
Unfortunately for them, the evidence is going to support the arresting officer's version of events. From the strong arm robbery to the bull rush at the police officer.
Meanwhile 6 black teenagers were shot and killed in Chicago over that same weekend. No outrage there.
we had all the feel-good stories about the state police taking over and the attitudes changing just a day or two ago. Either every department is rotten to the core or the dynamics owed a lot more to the other side of this dispute than to marauding policemen.
If you assume the "feel good" continued on the police side of things. Which media reports say it's not.
we had all the feel-good stories about the state police taking over and the attitudes changing just a day or two ago. Either every department is rotten to the core or the dynamics owed a lot more to the other side of this dispute than to marauding policemen.
If you assume the "feel good" continued on the police side of things. Which media reports say it's not.
And we know the media has no stake in this and is completely unbiased.
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
'Totally legit move there, schabadoo. Well done.' Â
here's a question i have "WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE YOUR 7 YEAR OLD OUT THERE PROTESTING???"
the parent is a registered voter... that person has the right to vote... with that mental capacity, its scary...
I can top that. There is video out there of a pregnant woman putting on a gas mask. I mean, really? You HAVE to be out there and risk your life and your unborn kids?
It's teeming with young black men who no one thought of excusing their behavior, blaming their victim, or creating a defense funds for them. A large number of them will go on trial (or plead out), then get shipped off to prison. People can be upset with the violence in Chicago, but they don't have to worry that known killers will be absolved by the justice system.
Whether this police officer is absolved or eventually found guilty of wrongdoing has little effect on the outcome of a family's civil suit. There are plenty of examples of localities that settle out of court even when the officer doesn't get charged with anything, let alone is found not guilty after a trial.
'but then I expect nothing less from the likes of you' Â
I'll let everyone know at the next meeting that you don't take us seriously. After we vote out Al as the Supreme Leader of All Blacks, we'll call you to see who we should nominate for the position.
You guys have meetings? Do you serve drinks or is it BYOB?
and The Nation still clings to the supposed innocence of Alger Hiss Â
that Crump and Parks used in Florida. They even sat the family in the exact same order for the first press photo op with Crump as they did in the Martin case.
Crump does not want the Grand Jury unless he's got a fix in. Maybe Holder is the fix. They will have better luck if they appoint a special prosecutor. They really need this officer to be arrested whether he is guilty or not. The financial benefits of an arrest increase for Crump and therefore for the parents.
We should be seeing the Justice For Mike tee shirts soon.
Police violence is not just a problem in Ferguson, not just a problem during protests, not just a problem for young black men, but a problem with the laws cops enforce, the tools they're given to do so, the erosion of our rights in the name of public safety, and the protections cops enjoy when they're wrong.
is a steaming pile of trash from beginning to end. Let's ignore the thoroughly manifold reasons that decide what makes a city succeed or fail - macro, micro, cultural, racial, geographical, historical, etc, etc - and instead boil it neatly down into an amazingly vacuous commentary on the political (which is indeed part of the equation, in degrees.)
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
Common sense tells me a cop just didn't wake up in the morning Â
with the intention of shooting anyone. He sees a guy walking down the middle of the street and tells him to walk on the sidewalk. something happened at that point and i'm sure it wasn't no officer i won't and the cop starts shooting
is a steaming pile of trash from beginning to end. Let's ignore the thoroughly manifold reasons that decide what makes a city succeed or fail - macro, micro, cultural, racial, geographical, historical, etc, etc - and instead boil it neatly down into an amazingly vacuous commentary on the political (which is indeed part of the equation, in degrees.)
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
It is not the best article, and the overall quality of The National Review's work has declined with the "rise" of the web-based content, but let's not pretend that policy and the decline of the auto industry in Michigan were unrelated either.
for the home owners and law abiding citizens who are going to see their lives destroyed by these protests. The Ferguson community has been effectively destroyed because a few chose violence over peaceful protest.
Who will willingly choose to live in Ferguson in the future?
the new Black Panthers and other outside groups away from the residents. This will end if they can accomplish that. It's kind of difficult to get things calm when you have a guy from the NBP with a megaphone leading protests.
On top of that you have Al Sharpton (wonder how much Crump paid him?) and Jessie Jackson coming in. Plus you have the usual brain dead mind-numbed users who hate all authority except when they get their social security disability checks. They get pretty worked up too.
Destroying a convenience store was a nice touch.
RE: RE: We've had 4 large scale riots in this country Â
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
clearly the (unfortunately excessive) influence of public sector unions played its role - and a large one in Motown's case - but so did any number of other factors (NAFTA, for one. Excellent Japanese alternatives. An over-reliance on the SUV craze in the 90s). Which is my point: it's complicated and to pare it down so neatly to conform to a bias is nonsense.
For every downtrodden "liberal" city like Detroit, you can point to a successful one like Seattle or Austin or Denver. For varied reasons. For every downtrodden "conservative" state like Mississippi, you can point to a North Dakota. For varied reasons (well maybe just one in ND's case...).
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well.
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
What about the person who owns the property that leases it to Payless?
is irrelevant to the guys at Golden Gate Capital but it's not irrelevant to the family hoping to buy shoes for the kids as they prepare for going back to school. It's not irrelevant to the manager of the store who no longer has a job.
The people who have come from outside Ferguson get to protest and make themselves relevant but they have no skin in the game. The people who made Ferguson a community are the ones getting screwed and the worst part is that it won't make a difference.
RE: RE: RE: RE: We've had 4 large scale riots in this country Â
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
What about the person who owns the property that leases it to Payless?
Point taken. Looking back, I don't think my comment added a whole lot that's relevant.
is irrelevant to the guys at Golden Gate Capital but it's not irrelevant to the family hoping to buy shoes for the kids as they prepare for going back to school. It's not irrelevant to the manager of the store who no longer has a job.
The people who have come from outside Ferguson get to protest and make themselves relevant but they have no skin in the game. The people who made Ferguson a community are the ones getting screwed and the worst part is that it won't make a difference.
I agree it's the outsiders that are driving this but the locals are letting them. What makes the locals have to listen to take their cues from some NBP guy with a megaphone? It's their town.
The community is finished. Nobody is going to willingly move to Ferguson nor will they invest in the place. Once the looting stops, it will sink into decay and despair.
I have no empathy for the protesters. The grievance may or may not be legit but their actions are not.
My dad was a part of the original riot specialists in the NYPD and he always told me that the lowest common denominator does the thinking for a crowd. The protesters are being manipulated at this point.
that's one thing that's hard to disagree with, Phil Â
and call him what he was? A brutal savage that attacked a law enforcement officer doing his job
gotta love it when ignorant fools like this use words like "savage" to describe African Americans, and without a fucking clue as to the implications of the word, it being racially charged, or how it would be received by others.
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well. Thug broke police officer's eye socket - ( New Window )
and call him what he was? A brutal savage that attacked a law enforcement officer doing his job
gotta love it when ignorant fools like this use words like "savage" to describe African Americans, and without a fucking clue as to the implications of the word, it being racially charged, or how it would be received by others.
Sounds like you're the one that's the racist when you automatically make that association. I consider anyone that brutally attacks a police officer to be a savage, whether they're white, black, green or purple. I think you are the one lacking clues in your little brain.
My dad was a part of the original riot specialists in the NYPD and he always told me that the lowest common denominator does the thinking for a crowd. The protesters are being manipulated at this point.
I believe it. You bring up your dad (RIP) a lot. He must have had some stories to tell.
Sounds like you're the one that's the racist when you automatically make that association. I consider anyone that brutally attacks a police officer to be a savage, whether they're white, black, green or purple. I think you are the one lacking clues in your little brain.
You're a liar. And if you think anyone believes that you routinely use the word "savage" to describe anyone whose skin is not dark, then you're wasting your time.
Sounds like you're the one that's the racist when you automatically make that association. I consider anyone that brutally attacks a police officer to be a savage, whether they're white, black, green or purple. I think you are the one lacking clues in your little brain.
You're a liar. And if you think anyone believes that you routinely use the word "savage" to describe anyone whose skin is not dark, then you're wasting your time.
Nope, just checked my pants and they are not on fire.
He was a great man but he never told stories as he had no respect for people who talked tough even though he was the epitome of tough. He only shared what he learned from his experience as a means towards educating me in the realities of life. The only time I heard stories was at his funeral.
is a steaming pile of trash from beginning to end. Let's ignore the thoroughly manifold reasons that decide what makes a city succeed or fail - macro, micro, cultural, racial, geographical, historical, etc, etc - and instead boil it neatly down into an amazingly vacuous commentary on the political (which is indeed part of the equation, in degrees.)
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
So is Detroit the only city, run by democrats for decades, to be in decline?
The media is force feeding this so much I can't turn the TV on until it goes away.
Oh and I can't stand Al Sharpton. The African American community will never be taken seriously as long as it keeps putting him in the forefront as some kind of leader and moral compass every time there is an issue.
Fixed...
*every time there is an issue that can get him on television or provide him with any sort of publicity.
If that story about the orbital fracture is true, it completely Â
Anyone finding some eery similarities with the Travyon Martin story?
At first, that was played up as a law abiding kid gunned down in cold blood. That story line hit its expiration date when physical evidence showed that Zimmerman was assaulted by Travyon and had the head injuries to prove it.
because, as I read earlier, we won't know what really happened until the whole story is told.
If the officer was unprovoked and shot him 6 times in cold blood, yes, he should absolutely be arrested and there should be major changes to the police dept in Ferguson.
What happens if more information comes out besides the orbital fractures that leave little doubt that the cop acted absolutely in self defense? While we should all strive for equality and justice, the protesters would have some major egg on their faces
was that this officer had just been honored by the Ferguson police department for meritorious service. His father tweeted a photo and said how proud he was of his son.
Now, all of a sudden, he's a cold blooded racist murderer?
would be saying anything about him. As I've said numerous times already, cops kill people who look like Michael Brown and who're in possession of weapons and no one protests, rallies, riots, etc.
Calling people without weapons "armed" and those carrying (and using) weapons of deadly force "victims" isn't going to go over well the the families of those killed. That's one of the things these national stories often have in common... the "threat" doesn't have a weapon while the "threatened" does. There are cases in which the "threatened" are found guilty of crimes (Detroit porch shooting, recent Florida shooting into a car, John White case) and others in which they're found not guilty or weren't charged (Martin, Marine shooting in Cali.).
to just say "OKAY" with this situation need to wise up too. It's not realistic. It doesn't justify any of the horseshit that's taken place in that town, but you can't expect the families to just accept that.
I can't imagine how it feels to lose a child. Yes, they knew he was troubled. But I don't see the family themselves as an issue.
The others who are driving all this senseless violence, those I blame. And those in the media and even here putting forward all the extreme BS about the cops when they clearly know nothing about the situation. They are the problem.
And the lawyers. What did Shakespeare say? I even saw that the clerk in the store who Brown robbed has a lawyer. This is good business for them I guess.
They'll never convict him of anything. Its very hard to convict a cop of wrongdoing in the line of duty. Here in the most liberal city in America ( Oakland ) Officer Johannes Mescherle assassinated a suspect in custody on video. All he got was 2nd degree manslaughter. This Ferguson cop shot a punk who attacked him. You do the math. Maybe they kick him out of the cops for violating procedure. That's the most thats likely to happen.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
The people who're looting, throwing Molotov cocktails, Â
and firing weapons aren't interested in Michael Brown, "justice", or the truth. That's why I just choose to focus on the family.
My opinion on this case is also far more middle of the road than other "similar" cases. The fact that this guy actually committed a crime beforehand makes me see him in a certain light. That being said, I'm extremely uncomfortable with unarmed people being shot/killed. That's obviously a difference of opinion between myself and some here. But I freely admit that this case isn't so black/white.
makes perfect sense. It seems to be in line with everything that has come out. Plus now we see the guy got his eye socket fractured when a 6'4" 290 lb guy punched him.
Tomorrow is the grand jury. See if they no bill him.
They'll never convict him of anything. Its very hard to convict a cop of wrongdoing in the line of duty. Here in the most liberal city in America ( Oakland ) Officer Johannes Mescherle assassinated a suspect in custody on video. All he got was 2nd degree manslaughter. This Ferguson cop shot a punk who attacked him. You do the math. Maybe they kick him out of the cops for violating procedure. That's the most thats likely to happen.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
By doing his job he 'provoked' the situation? So he should just stand back and do nothing? And why is firing 6 shots suspicious? Are you a cop? Did you read the autopsy? The first 5 shots didn't do enough to stop him.
You don't have to defend the cop, but your second guessing of him is a bit much.
RE: The people who're looting, throwing Molotov cocktails, Â
and firing weapons aren't interested in Michael Brown, "justice", or the truth. That's why I just choose to focus on the family.
I think the family wants what is going on during the daylight hours. I don't think they want what is going on at night. Most of the people arrested are not community members. Some are professional agitators. Some, IMHO, heard Sharpton was taking a lead role and assumed he wouldn't stop until he got his Yankel Rosenbaum and a shitload of publicity.
the curfew had ended last night. The streets were cleared after protesters started shooting and throwing molotov cocktails. 2 people were shot by protesters last night. Police did not fire a shot last night.
had a national profile but not nearly what he has now. He has more to lose and the idea that he wants "a Yankel Rosenbaum" this time around has more to do with people's preexisting dislike for him (however justified) than what he might actually want to see happen here.
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways. Some people always, ALWAYS take the side of the cops (or, perhaps more accurately, against the black kid). Some always side with the black kid.
It just always fascinates me that people are seemingly unaware that they are filtering their reality so blatantly through their own prejudices, agendas and preconceived notions. For example, people who side with Cliven Bundy against the "police state" suddenly find themselves siding with "law and order".
It really seems that most people have just completely abdicated the ability to engage in critical thought. Personally, I have no idea who is right or wrong about what happened with this incident in Ferguson in terms of the initial shooting, but I do know that rioting and looting are doing more harm to this community than the original shooting ever could have. Peaceful protests are great. Insisting on a special prosecutor, or even a federal inquiry is great. But this violence and civil unrest is not the path to justice.
I will be interested to see if this orbital fracture stuff is true or not. I suspect this is nonsense coming out of the right wing media, but I could be wrong. Meanwhile, the cigarillo robbery angle seem questionable. See link.
People should settle down and let the process work itself out. I know this is boring, but it really is the way that justice gets done. Not by throwing rocks or bottles, or by proclaiming the cop innocent because the kid he shot was a "savage". Link - ( New Window )
right after the shooting. Doesn't look like someone who just got his eye socket broken. Not once does he even touch his eye. I saw a kid get his eye socket broken by a thrown pitch once, he was lying on the floor crying in the fetal position for about 20 minutes.
FMiC
GMANinDC : 9:11 am : link : reply
I tried to stay out of this whole issue, but where did you get the statement that the violence won't stop until justice is served?..
I just read that they was on the Today show yestrerday saying it had to stop and the focus should be on Brown death..
I don't know what Today Show interview you saw, but the one today with Matt Lauer interviewing the parents had the mom say there will be no peace until justice is served.
When Lauer bottom line asked "What is justice", she said the arrest, arraignment, and successful conviction of the person who murdered her son. She might have even said "executed", but I can't remember if it was her or the family lawyer that said it.
she followed it up with the already tired slogan, "No Justice, No Peace".
I wonder if it is shown that Brown didn't have his arms up if we'll stop hearing the crap "Hands up, don't shoot" as if some kid showing no harm to an officer is going to be shot with his hands in the air and supposedly on his knees.
This is why initial reports need to be verified before sending a frothed mob out into the streets.
What if somebody said justice should be the jailing of every looter and vandal involved here? I'm sure we'd hear some pile of shit about it being OK because people were in a racial rage, a precedent that was set during the rodney King riots.
right after the shooting. Doesn't look like someone who just got his eye socket broken. Not once does he even touch his eye. I saw a kid get his eye socket broken by a thrown pitch once, he was lying on the floor crying in the fetal position for about 20 minutes.
Link - ( New Window )
Awfully far away to draw any conclusions. We'll all be better served when the medical reports are released.
him giving the clerk money? did he stuff it in his shirt as he was grabbing him around the neck and pushing him?
Or are we seeing different videos? I saw one where a guy walks into a store, grabs merchandise, and instead of just leaving actually takes time to push the scrawny clerk.
I find it very suspicious that they wouldn't immediately release the information that the officer had been injured in an altercation with the suspect since it would have bolstered their case that the officer acted in self-defense. Maybe they were waiting to make sure no video of the incident surfaced that would counter the claim?
Didn't the officer turn around in the first place Â
because he had just heard of the robbery and MB matched the description of the suspect? That would suggest that the clerk actually did call the authorities.
I find it very suspicious that they wouldn't immediately release the information that the officer had been injured in an altercation with the suspect since it would have bolstered their case that the officer acted in self-defense. Maybe they were waiting to make sure no video of the incident surfaced that would counter the claim?
The Indymedia contingent has arrived, we were clearly lacking that informed perspective beforehand.
Why on earth wouldn't the Ferguson police publicize that immediately, since it would bolster their officer's story? That alone makes it pretty dubious. Couple that with the video of the cop walking around with no visible distress from what would be a fairly serious injury, and I'm comfortable saying that it's a fairy tale.
"It is always so fascinating to me
Don in DC : 2:37 pm : link : reply
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways"
I think there's a pretty big middle ground here on BBI of people who are suspending judgement until evidence is confirmed and evaluated by neutral professionals. But that doesn't mean we aren't interested in discussing purported evidence when it comes out, just that it isn't in any way conclusive.
The officer who shot and killed an unarmed teenager in Ferguson, Missouri was injured in the alleged altercation, according to Ferguson Chief of Police Tom Jackson.
Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen." The chief did not say if the officer suffered any broken bones.
"The chief did not say if the officer had suffered any broken bones." If he had indeed sustained a broken orbital bone, they would have shouted it from the rooftops as it supported the idea that Brown was a danger to the officer's safety. "Facial injury" could be anything - it could be a scratch, some swelling, a bruise.
I can't say for sure that it's bullshit, no, but I don't find it convincing when the only source for the broken bone claim is a conservative blogger.
That interview with the police chief occured on Wednesday, four days after the shooting. Guess Wilson hadn't had a chance to drop by the emergency room by then.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
I said the same thing in the other thread about Ferguson. If this officer has a fractured eye, that would have leaked to the major media outlets first. This info would be a major factor in this whole case. If Brown broke his eye socket, the shooting takes on a whole new light
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well. Thug broke police officer's eye socket - ( New Window )
The Gateway Pundit? Yeah, ok. That's all I need to know about your stupid ass.
RE: Didn't the officer turn around in the first place Â
because he had just heard of the robbery and MB matched the description of the suspect? That would suggest that the clerk actually did call the authorities.
No he stopped them for jay walking in the middle of the road. The police stated he had no knowledge of the robbery call at the time
but I know someone who got hit in the face, didn't go to the doctor, and a week later it was still swollen so he went and got an xray and he had an orbital fracture.
but I know someone who got hit in the face, didn't go to the doctor, and a week later it was still swollen so he went and got an xray and he had an orbital fracture.
It may be he does have one, but this site would not be the first one that info would go to
whatever the truth is ....should come out. I did hear that woman calling into Dana Loesch's radio show and say that the officer did indeed learn about the robbery after he stopped the men for jaywalking Link - ( New Window )
RE: derpaderp going for that 'bbi's retard' number one contender spot Â
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
That interview with the police chief occured on Wednesday, four days after the shooting. Guess Wilson hadn't had a chance to drop by the emergency room by then.
He may have still been in the waiting room on Wednesday. Not the place to go for quick treatment these days.
RE: RE: Autopsy and forensic evidence will give us Â
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
RE: RE: RE: Autopsy and forensic evidence will give us Â
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
I would think first shot was fatal would be worse than last shot.
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
Victim just committed a robbery where he physically assaulted the store owner. Cops story is that the victim charged him after assaulting him in his car. There are witnesses to back up this version.
Your points only address certain aspects of the incident.
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
That's not to say that something else will be found in the forensics Â
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
whatever the truth is ....should come out. I did hear that woman calling into Dana Loesch's radio show and say that the officer did indeed learn about the robbery after he stopped the men for jaywalking Link - ( New Window )
you might be dumber than I thought. She asserts that she is a family friend. While we cannot verify it (as with so many "details"), there is this:
Quote:
After airing the audio, Don Lemon cautioned viewers that, as with any witness account, this is unproven and simply just another side of the story. However, he noted, CNN confirmed that Josie’s account of the story matches what the network’s sources say police have told investigators
If prosecutors are able to get Dorian Johnson to recant his story (the guy still has an outstanding warrant), then the GJ will have stories that match, evidence that suggests Brown was shot from the front, eyewitnesses that saw him charge the officer and injuries to the officer's face. That should be good enough for a no bill.
Does that mean that Gov Nixon wouldn't appoint a special prosecutor? No. He might decide the hell with the GJ, I'm going forward anyways. Crump and Parks want the special prosecutor. CNN thinks Josie is real. - ( New Window )
Crump and Parks do not dispute that Brown engaged the officer at his cruiser. They are asserting that the officer put his hands around the neck of a 6'4" 290 pound man while seated in the cruiser.
he's upset because I linked audio of a caller into a radio station who says she is a family friend and wanted to get the officer's side of the story out.
He thinks that's ridiculous. I am pointing out that she seems to be asserting the same information that the police told investigators. So it makes her comments more relevant.
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
Maybe it's just me, but his condescending tone takes away from the overall message.
Is that really a surprise though? The majority I've come across in Philly have awful attitudes and talk to you like you're an idiot. Personally I think it's just too much power and authority for most people. As for this though, he's pretty much right...
" Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
A lot of these alterations would be completely avoided if more people simply realized that arguing with a cop is about as useful as an asshole full of teeth. You're NEVER going to win, even if you are right and the cop is being a condescending prick. When a cop stops you you are at their mercy. The nest thing you could do is shut up, do exactly what they say, and remain respectful no matter how ignorant they may be. If you do that a situation will never escalate, and if you were really treated that poorly you can always file a complaint. But arguing,telling a cop what he can and can't do, or even worse, simply ignore his instructions well then you have no one to blame for yourself for the uncomfortable position you're sure to find yourself in.
When is this crap in ferguson going to end? it's not as long Â
as cops keep acting like this one in video below. How anyone can argue this is a professional, this is how peace officers should conduct themselves,like thugs and bullies threatening and swearing at unarmed noin threeatening protesters while this guy goes around pointing his assault rifle at everyone and his brother ( this is ok, but the kid with the pellet gun in walmart deserved to get shot, right?) telling them to go fuck themselves and saying "i'm gonna kill you" isn't the issue, the protesters are. OK.Bullshit.This needs to stop. Now.Tell me how this isn't "militarized police" acting like fucking goons. Link - ( New Window )
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Squeezing off a half-dozen shots over the span of a couple seconds is not especially galling. People hone in on that but it's really one of the less objectionable pieces of the story. If it happened that fast, and it seems to have, the appropriateness of the first shot is what's at issue.
Not necessarily. First shot may have occurred during struggle. If Brown took off running the shots fired in pursuit as well as any shots fired after he stooped running may be the most important.
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
Not necessarily. First shot may have occurred during struggle. If Brown took off running the shots fired in pursuit as well as any shots fired after he stooped running may be the most important.
I meant the first shot that hit him. Unless there was a delay between those, the ones that hit him seem to be from a single, continuous string of shots.
Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
The specifics of the case, at this point in time, is that law enforcement shot and killed an unarmed 18 year old.
until all the facts are in. I don't feel compelled to reach a conclusion re: this issue until then. Have a sense of what happened but again all the facts aren't in yet.
Video of 19 year old killed yesterday by St Louis PD Â
guy stole a couple of soda cans, put them on the ground and waited for police. They arrived, he yelled "shoot me" they obliged.Cops claim he had a knife raised high over his head and was a "few feet" from then when they fired.Doesn't look quite like that to me.Don't see how protests end as long as this keeps happening.Form your own opinions as to whether this kid needed to get 12 rds put into him, 6 after he hit the ground.
The police report mentions nothing about the knife being over his head.
Looks justified to me. They told him several times to drop the knife. He instead continued walking towards them shouting "kill me" and "shoot me". I've read that many witnesses agree that it was justified and believe it was suicide by cop. I don't have links supporting that though... LINK - ( New Window )
From statements made by Chief Dotson directly to St. Louis dispatch:
"The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Two arriving officers ordered Powell to get down, but he became more agitated and walked toward them, reaching for his waistband. Witnesses told police the man was yelling, “Shoot me, kill me now,” during the encounter, Dotson said.
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell." Link - ( New Window )
It is to far for me to tell if he had a knife, but if he was holding one it certainly wasn't over his head and you can hear the officers saying to "drop the knife". Also he clearly was the aggressor in the situation as far as that he was the one approaching the police and not the other way around. They did give him plenty of verbal warning while they had their weapons drawn and every chance to drop the knife and stop approaching.
Why in the world anyone would aggressively approach police holding a knife yelling at them to "shoot me" is beyond me.
"As someone often defending the little guy
Randy in CT : 5:27 pm : link : reply
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case."
I would add that it is more likely than not that this "kid" was going to end up in prison before ever attaining a college degree!
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
I had an orbital eye socket injury (multiple fractures - "buckle" fracture it was called) ... I got hit during an adult hardball game ... Hit in the face while heading back to 2nd base on a pick-off move from the pitcher). I played the rest of the game after that ... the next day I was IN A WORLD OF HURT!!! So there goes the theory of .. "well the officer is still walking around after having his eye socket fractured ...". Plus, can you imagine the amount of adrenaline being pumped through one's body in a situation like that? Adrenaline can COMPLETELY mask any pain from serious injury for quite a while I'd say. Any doctors here want to certify this???
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
Bake54 is stating in this thread. This story just makes me say .... Thank goodness I chose NOT to become a police officer after getting out of the Army back in '90!!! A thankless and very tough job!!! To say the LEAST!!!!
The point is you are trying to change their story for them. You claimed they said he had it over his head. That is absolutely not true, at least not in the link you provided.
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
I don't know what you are trying to say...
I said the police claimed he was holding a knife up. Â
you diaagreed and said the police made no such statement. I posted the link from the paper who recorded that statement from the police chief directly to them.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
you diaagreed and said the police made no such statement. I posted the link from the paper who recorded that statement from the police chief directly to them.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
Go look at what you said. You said over his head...when your link doesn't show them saying that.
I think he would have made a point if he had been unarmed and instead of continue to approach them when warned not to had listened to them, and then gotten shot.
Quote:
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
I don't see how anyone can possibly form a conclusion based on the accounts in the media. However, if forced to choose, I'd probably agree with Randy. Fortunately, none of us has to decide so doing so simply reveals your bias.
in the lengthy debate, but have to say I'm impressed it hadn't escalated into a thread that was deleted.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
in the lengthy debate, but have to say I'm impressed it hadn't escalated into a thread that was deleted.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
Speaking of which, what happened to the other Ferguson thread?
Ed Magee, a spokesperson for the ​St. Louis County prosecutor’s office told the Washington Post that McCulloch “has been in touch with Wilson’s attorney but has not spoken to Wilson himself.”
You're welcome.
A kid gets shot and kill and that means every night looting is justified?
Read the link this is far from the fault of police, the actions of few increases the risk of all.
Link - ( New Window )
Just have Tony Stewart drive down the street there and it will end.
Oh and I can't stand Al Sharpton. The African American community will never be taken seriously as long as it keeps putting him in the forefront as some kind of leader and moral compass every time there is an issue.
Are you kidding? First is was, 'we want his name'. They have that. Then it will be if he's arrested, then the trial. And then if he's found not guilty.
Many of the people there don't believe Brown was the person in the robbery video. This is about more than the shooting.
And it would help if the media and just about everyone else would back off.
But justice was just said to be the arrest, the indictment and the successful prosecution of the officer.
Expect more riots unless they use the officer as an example, even if he's not guilty.
At this point, it is simply a reason to be lawless and loot.
cnn report - ( New Window )
here
Sadly, I guess that is to be the somewhat expected result when you have much of the media and a good portion of the country telling them precicly that very thing, in spite of none of them knowing any of the actual details of what occurred.
In a rare moment aside from sending Holder down there, I think that Obama has been remarkably restrained and talkative about steps needed which is a big change from prior racially charged incidents.
Well done Rud.
Best idea yet. That will clear the streets. It's almost too cruel.
the parent is a registered voter... that person has the right to vote... with that mental capacity, its scary...
Daily Caller or Stormfront links expected shortly.
You really don't see the possibility that the police are antagonizing this stuff now?
I want to show you this, okay? To give you an idea of what’s going on. The protesters have moved all the way down there… they’re all the way down there. Nobody is threatening anything. Nobody is doing anything. None of the stores here that I can see are being looted. There is no violence.
Now I want you to look at what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri, in downtown America, okay? These are armed police, with — not machine guns — semi-automatic rifles, with batons, with shields, many of them dressed for combat. Now why they’re doing this? I don’t know. Because there is no threat going on here. None that merits this. There is none, okay? Absolutely there have been looters, absolutely over the last nine days there’s been violence, but there is nothing going on on this street right now that merits this scene out of Bagram. Nothing.
So if people wonder why the people of Ferguson, Missouri are so upset, this is part of the reason. What is this? This doesn’t make any sense.
Link - ( New Window )
Unfortunately for them, the evidence is going to support the arresting officer's version of events. From the strong arm robbery to the bull rush at the police officer.
Meanwhile 6 black teenagers were shot and killed in Chicago over that same weekend. No outrage there.
I just read that they was on the Today show yestrerdfay saying it had to stop and the focus should be on Brown death..
If you assume the "feel good" continued on the police side of things. Which media reports say it's not.
Quote:
we had all the feel-good stories about the state police taking over and the attitudes changing just a day or two ago. Either every department is rotten to the core or the dynamics owed a lot more to the other side of this dispute than to marauding policemen.
If you assume the "feel good" continued on the police side of things. Which media reports say it's not.
And we know the media has no stake in this and is completely unbiased.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
I was curious who was going to rise to the call. I was guessing Buford.
the parent is a registered voter... that person has the right to vote... with that mental capacity, its scary...
I can top that. There is video out there of a pregnant woman putting on a gas mask. I mean, really? You HAVE to be out there and risk your life and your unborn kids?
BTW, this is an excellent article on the decline in cities with minority populations and the reason.
Hint, it's not from Daily Kos.
Link - ( New Window )
Small correction...the Grand Jury convenes tomorrow.
It worked before..try it again - ( New Window )
Whether this police officer is absolved or eventually found guilty of wrongdoing has little effect on the outcome of a family's civil suit. There are plenty of examples of localities that settle out of court even when the officer doesn't get charged with anything, let alone is found not guilty after a trial.
To be fair, Stormfront seems more honest. The Caller still clings to that phony Menendez story.
You guys have meetings? Do you serve drinks or is it BYOB?
Crump does not want the Grand Jury unless he's got a fix in. Maybe Holder is the fix. They will have better luck if they appoint a special prosecutor. They really need this officer to be arrested whether he is guilty or not. The financial benefits of an arrest increase for Crump and therefore for the parents.
We should be seeing the Justice For Mike tee shirts soon.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
It is not the best article, and the overall quality of The National Review's work has declined with the "rise" of the web-based content, but let's not pretend that policy and the decline of the auto industry in Michigan were unrelated either.
Who will willingly choose to live in Ferguson in the future?
On top of that you have Al Sharpton (wonder how much Crump paid him?) and Jessie Jackson coming in. Plus you have the usual brain dead mind-numbed users who hate all authority except when they get their social security disability checks. They get pretty worked up too.
Destroying a convenience store was a nice touch.
Quote:
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
For every downtrodden "liberal" city like Detroit, you can point to a successful one like Seattle or Austin or Denver. For varied reasons. For every downtrodden "conservative" state like Mississippi, you can point to a North Dakota. For varied reasons (well maybe just one in ND's case...).
It's just a shit article.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well.
Thug broke police officer's eye socket - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 11813949 Dignan said:
Quote:
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
What about the person who owns the property that leases it to Payless?
The people who have come from outside Ferguson get to protest and make themselves relevant but they have no skin in the game. The people who made Ferguson a community are the ones getting screwed and the worst part is that it won't make a difference.
Quote:
In comment 11813956 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 11813949 Dignan said:
Quote:
in the last 4 years over policy brutality, maybe Ferguson is more of a symptom of our disappearing middle class and the need for harsher policing to keep the "permanent underclass" in line.
Quote:
From 2009 to 2012, as the U.S. economy improved, incomes of the top 1% grew more than 31%, while the incomes of the 99% grew 0.4% - less than half a percentage point.
Link - ( New Window )
Ever-sensitive to macroeconomic trends, the looters took down a Payless Shoe Store to stick it to the 1%.
Payless is owned by Golden Gate Capital. I know those guys. Believe me, they are in the 1%.
What about the person who owns the property that leases it to Payless?
Point taken. Looking back, I don't think my comment added a whole lot that's relevant.
The people who have come from outside Ferguson get to protest and make themselves relevant but they have no skin in the game. The people who made Ferguson a community are the ones getting screwed and the worst part is that it won't make a difference.
I agree it's the outsiders that are driving this but the locals are letting them. What makes the locals have to listen to take their cues from some NBP guy with a megaphone? It's their town.
I have no empathy for the protesters. The grievance may or may not be legit but their actions are not.
gotta love it when ignorant fools like this use words like "savage" to describe African Americans, and without a fucking clue as to the implications of the word, it being racially charged, or how it would be received by others.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well. Thug broke police officer's eye socket - ( New Window )
This.
Quote:
and call him what he was? A brutal savage that attacked a law enforcement officer doing his job
gotta love it when ignorant fools like this use words like "savage" to describe African Americans, and without a fucking clue as to the implications of the word, it being racially charged, or how it would be received by others.
Sounds like you're the one that's the racist when you automatically make that association. I consider anyone that brutally attacks a police officer to be a savage, whether they're white, black, green or purple. I think you are the one lacking clues in your little brain.
I believe it. You bring up your dad (RIP) a lot. He must have had some stories to tell.
You're a liar. And if you think anyone believes that you routinely use the word "savage" to describe anyone whose skin is not dark, then you're wasting your time.
Quote:
Sounds like you're the one that's the racist when you automatically make that association. I consider anyone that brutally attacks a police officer to be a savage, whether they're white, black, green or purple. I think you are the one lacking clues in your little brain.
You're a liar. And if you think anyone believes that you routinely use the word "savage" to describe anyone whose skin is not dark, then you're wasting your time.
Nope, just checked my pants and they are not on fire.
Some of us don't find this to be a shocking development, certainly not I.
I'm trying to think if there was anything else noteworthy that occurred before and during Detroit's decay beyond its public policy. Anyone? I think it had something to do with cars.
What a brutal article. Like a moth to a flame, no surprise that it was buford who found such hollow nonsense compelling.
So is Detroit the only city, run by democrats for decades, to be in decline?
Oh and I can't stand Al Sharpton. The African American community will never be taken seriously as long as it keeps putting him in the forefront as some kind of leader and moral compass every time there is an issue.
Fixed...
*every time there is an issue that can get him on television or provide him with any sort of publicity.
Anyone finding some eery similarities with the Travyon Martin story?
At first, that was played up as a law abiding kid gunned down in cold blood. That story line hit its expiration date when physical evidence showed that Zimmerman was assaulted by Travyon and had the head injuries to prove it.
With the implication being what, cities that are run by Republicans are all doing great?
Another person whose brain is on auto pilot.
If the officer was unprovoked and shot him 6 times in cold blood, yes, he should absolutely be arrested and there should be major changes to the police dept in Ferguson.
What happens if more information comes out besides the orbital fractures that leave little doubt that the cop acted absolutely in self defense? While we should all strive for equality and justice, the protesters would have some major egg on their faces
Missed the point entirely, unsurprisingly. You are absolutely hopeless.
But you don't want to face the reality of it so what's the point.
Now, all of a sudden, he's a cold blooded racist murderer?
Calling people without weapons "armed" and those carrying (and using) weapons of deadly force "victims" isn't going to go over well the the families of those killed. That's one of the things these national stories often have in common... the "threat" doesn't have a weapon while the "threatened" does. There are cases in which the "threatened" are found guilty of crimes (Detroit porch shooting, recent Florida shooting into a car, John White case) and others in which they're found not guilty or weren't charged (Martin, Marine shooting in Cali.).
You can be upset and want to find out the truth without knocking over convenience stores in town.
The others who are driving all this senseless violence, those I blame. And those in the media and even here putting forward all the extreme BS about the cops when they clearly know nothing about the situation. They are the problem.
And the lawyers. What did Shakespeare say? I even saw that the clerk in the store who Brown robbed has a lawyer. This is good business for them I guess.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
My opinion on this case is also far more middle of the road than other "similar" cases. The fact that this guy actually committed a crime beforehand makes me see him in a certain light. That being said, I'm extremely uncomfortable with unarmed people being shot/killed. That's obviously a difference of opinion between myself and some here. But I freely admit that this case isn't so black/white.
Tomorrow is the grand jury. See if they no bill him.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
By doing his job he 'provoked' the situation? So he should just stand back and do nothing? And why is firing 6 shots suspicious? Are you a cop? Did you read the autopsy? The first 5 shots didn't do enough to stop him.
You don't have to defend the cop, but your second guessing of him is a bit much.
I think the family wants what is going on during the daylight hours. I don't think they want what is going on at night. Most of the people arrested are not community members. Some are professional agitators. Some, IMHO, heard Sharpton was taking a lead role and assumed he wouldn't stop until he got his Yankel Rosenbaum and a shitload of publicity.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
It just always fascinates me that people are seemingly unaware that they are filtering their reality so blatantly through their own prejudices, agendas and preconceived notions. For example, people who side with Cliven Bundy against the "police state" suddenly find themselves siding with "law and order".
It really seems that most people have just completely abdicated the ability to engage in critical thought. Personally, I have no idea who is right or wrong about what happened with this incident in Ferguson in terms of the initial shooting, but I do know that rioting and looting are doing more harm to this community than the original shooting ever could have. Peaceful protests are great. Insisting on a special prosecutor, or even a federal inquiry is great. But this violence and civil unrest is not the path to justice.
I will be interested to see if this orbital fracture stuff is true or not. I suspect this is nonsense coming out of the right wing media, but I could be wrong. Meanwhile, the cigarillo robbery angle seem questionable. See link.
People should settle down and let the process work itself out. I know this is boring, but it really is the way that justice gets done. Not by throwing rocks or bottles, or by proclaiming the cop innocent because the kid he shot was a "savage".
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
GMANinDC : 9:11 am : link : reply
I tried to stay out of this whole issue, but where did you get the statement that the violence won't stop until justice is served?..
I just read that they was on the Today show yestrerday saying it had to stop and the focus should be on Brown death..
I don't know what Today Show interview you saw, but the one today with Matt Lauer interviewing the parents had the mom say there will be no peace until justice is served.
When Lauer bottom line asked "What is justice", she said the arrest, arraignment, and successful conviction of the person who murdered her son. She might have even said "executed", but I can't remember if it was her or the family lawyer that said it.
she followed it up with the already tired slogan, "No Justice, No Peace".
I wonder if it is shown that Brown didn't have his arms up if we'll stop hearing the crap "Hands up, don't shoot" as if some kid showing no harm to an officer is going to be shot with his hands in the air and supposedly on his knees.
This is why initial reports need to be verified before sending a frothed mob out into the streets.
What if somebody said justice should be the jailing of every looter and vandal involved here? I'm sure we'd hear some pile of shit about it being OK because people were in a racial rage, a precedent that was set during the rodney King riots.
Link - ( New Window )
Awfully far away to draw any conclusions. We'll all be better served when the medical reports are released.
Lots of questionable assumptions going around on both sides.
Or are we seeing different videos? I saw one where a guy walks into a store, grabs merchandise, and instead of just leaving actually takes time to push the scrawny clerk.
The Indymedia contingent has arrived, we were clearly lacking that informed perspective beforehand.
Link - ( New Window )
Lots of questionable assumptions going around on both sides.
I am just curious why the cops name was important but the robbery video was not?
Why does that matter? Bruise, break, etc. Either way, it means there was an altercation. Nothing dubious.
Good. Time to loot some liquor stores and get free stuff.
Don in DC : 2:37 pm : link : reply
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways"
I think there's a pretty big middle ground here on BBI of people who are suspending judgement until evidence is confirmed and evaluated by neutral professionals. But that doesn't mean we aren't interested in discussing purported evidence when it comes out, just that it isn't in any way conclusive.
Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen." The chief did not say if the officer suffered any broken bones.
Officer suffered facial injuries - ( New Window )
I can't say for sure that it's bullshit, no, but I don't find it convincing when the only source for the broken bone claim is a conservative blogger.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
I said the same thing in the other thread about Ferguson. If this officer has a fractured eye, that would have leaked to the major media outlets first. This info would be a major factor in this whole case. If Brown broke his eye socket, the shooting takes on a whole new light
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
He was not a "gentle giant", he was not "unarmed"...at his size and weight, he is a weapon and beat the police officer to a point where he had no choice but to defend himself and shoot the attacking thug. He wasn't an innocent "teen", he was an adult (at 18 years of age) and responsible for his actions and suffered the consequences of them.
You don't attack a police officer and you certainly don't try to take his firearm. The police officer did his job and did it well. Thug broke police officer's eye socket - ( New Window )
The Gateway Pundit? Yeah, ok. That's all I need to know about your stupid ass.
No he stopped them for jay walking in the middle of the road. The police stated he had no knowledge of the robbery call at the time
Maybe you can find some more information about it on another blantantly right leaning 'news' site?
Bigot.
It may be he does have one, but this site would not be the first one that info would go to
Link - ( New Window )
a whole lot of class using the word retard...
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
Quote:
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
Quote:
In comment 11815035 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
all the answers we need. I'll reserve my judgment till then . . . although so far it's not looking good for the cop. Don't know if there exists an account from a on-scene witness to verify his story yet.
Just curious, how do you see it not looking good for the cop? I saw the autopsy doctor on tv last night. Could be shots could be from 2-35 feet away, arms could have been up or down, head shot could be from the victim staggering or charging.... Except for the fact that the shots came from the front and not the back, it didn't really tell us that much, at least not conclusively.
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
I would think first shot was fatal would be worse than last shot.
Been kicking these ideas around a long time and I don't think there's been too many minds changed.
Maybe people aren't meant to get along?
Victim was unarmed, minority. Six shots. Two to the head. Last shot was fatal. Looks good?
Victim just committed a robbery where he physically assaulted the store owner. Cops story is that the victim charged him after assaulting him in his car. There are witnesses to back up this version.
Your points only address certain aspects of the incident.
I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
Maybe it's just me, but his condescending tone takes away from the overall message.
Regarding the dead teen, you asked "how do you see it not looking good...?".
I particularly enjoy how that guy lumps in actual threats with cursing and rudeness and -the gall of those uppity civilians- arguing with the cop.
In other words, rudeness is an acceptable justification for the use of force.
Quote:
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
I particularly enjoy how that guy lumps in actual threats with cursing and rudeness and -the gall of those uppity civilians- arguing with the cop.
In other words, rudeness is an acceptable justification for the use of force.
"THEY DARKY'S COMIN' RIGHT FOR US" defense should work wonders.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Jesus Christ. You're not this stupid, are you?
If prosecutors are able to get Dorian Johnson to recant his story (the guy still has an outstanding warrant), then the GJ will have stories that match, evidence that suggests Brown was shot from the front, eyewitnesses that saw him charge the officer and injuries to the officer's face. That should be good enough for a no bill.
Does that mean that Gov Nixon wouldn't appoint a special prosecutor? No. He might decide the hell with the GJ, I'm going forward anyways. Crump and Parks want the special prosecutor.
CNN thinks Josie is real. - ( New Window )
He thinks that's ridiculous. I am pointing out that she seems to be asserting the same information that the police told investigators. So it makes her comments more relevant.
Quote:
. I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. - ( New Window )
Maybe it's just me, but his condescending tone takes away from the overall message.
Is that really a surprise though? The majority I've come across in Philly have awful attitudes and talk to you like you're an idiot. Personally I think it's just too much power and authority for most people. As for this though, he's pretty much right...
" Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
A lot of these alterations would be completely avoided if more people simply realized that arguing with a cop is about as useful as an asshole full of teeth. You're NEVER going to win, even if you are right and the cop is being a condescending prick. When a cop stops you you are at their mercy. The nest thing you could do is shut up, do exactly what they say, and remain respectful no matter how ignorant they may be. If you do that a situation will never escalate, and if you were really treated that poorly you can always file a complaint. But arguing,telling a cop what he can and can't do, or even worse, simply ignore his instructions well then you have no one to blame for yourself for the uncomfortable position you're sure to find yourself in.
Link - ( New Window )
Thug beat officer before shooting in self defense - ( New Window )
Quote:
is that he wasn't shot in the back. The fact that he was shot 6 times or in the head doesn't really say anything about whether the officer is at fault or not.
Are you blatantly being obtuse?
Squeezing off a half-dozen shots over the span of a couple seconds is not especially galling. People hone in on that but it's really one of the less objectionable pieces of the story. If it happened that fast, and it seems to have, the appropriateness of the first shot is what's at issue.
Do you really have to post this in both of the threads? Really?
Quote:
before he was forced to defend himself by using his firearm: Thug beat officer before shooting in self defense - ( New Window )
Do you really have to post this in both of the threads? Really?
Yes. Yes, I really do.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case.
I meant the first shot that hit him. Unless there was a delay between those, the ones that hit him seem to be from a single, continuous string of shots.
The specifics of the case, at this point in time, is that law enforcement shot and killed an unarmed 18 year old.
I could be wrong here...
Warning: Video is graphic.A young man dies.
Link - ( New Window )
Looks justified to me. They told him several times to drop the knife. He instead continued walking towards them shouting "kill me" and "shoot me". I've read that many witnesses agree that it was justified and believe it was suicide by cop. I don't have links supporting that though...
LINK - ( New Window )
"The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Two arriving officers ordered Powell to get down, but he became more agitated and walked toward them, reaching for his waistband. Witnesses told police the man was yelling, “Shoot me, kill me now,” during the encounter, Dotson said.
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high, Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell."
Link - ( New Window )
Why in the world anyone would aggressively approach police holding a knife yelling at them to "shoot me" is beyond me.
Simply horrible to watch.
"As someone often defending the little guy
Randy in CT : 5:27 pm : link : reply
from the big guy, this case is straightforward so far. And those lumping it in automatically with "historical injustices against minorities" aren't thinking nor seeing this clearly.
It may turn out that the cops acted inappropriately.
What we know though is the kid was a POS who was just strong-arming a store owner of his property, committing a violent crime.
I lean heavily pro-police at this juncture. Leaning towards the victim at this point means you probably made your mind up before you heard any evidence whatsoever and your beef is more theoretical than it is about the specifics of this case."
I would add that it is more likely than not that this "kid" was going to end up in prison before ever attaining a college degree!
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
The point is you are trying to change their story for them. You claimed they said he had it over his head. That is absolutely not true, at least not in the link you provided.
Quote:
The way I read the quite from your own link it says the he held the knife "high". It doesn't say "over his head" as you are claiming.
Quote:
The officers drew their weapons and ordered Powell to stop. He did stop, but then pulled out a knife and came at the officers, gripping and holding it high Dotson said. They ordered him to stop and drop the knife. When he got within 2 or 3 feet of the officers, they fired, killing Powell.
“This is a lethal range for a knife,” Dotson said.
Like I said steve, form your own opinions.It's on tape. I'm not going to argue it.we both saw it. I have my opinion on it, others will have theirs. It's clear to me what happened, and why.
You, on the other hand, don't understand why he did it.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
Halfbak, you and I hold totally different views on law enforcement.I don't know your background but respect your opinion. For my part I have a degree in crim justice from John jay.Where I come from, that's not law enforcement.Anyone who thinks it is, I wish on them such law enforcement officials in their communities, and may they and their sons and daughters run into them.
I don't know what you are trying to say...
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
you say police didnt say that
I say they did
Paper shows chief said it direct to them, the St Louis dispatch.
Go look at what you said. You said over his head...when your link doesn't show them saying that.
I get that, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm willing to bet more than a few people in ferguson understand why he did it and the point he was making. To me, he made his point.
***Warning it is graphic****
link - ( New Window )
It leaves the case of an unarmed teenager - or thug or criminal or whatever you want to call this guy - 290 lbs or not, dangling.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
anyway, the question I was wondering, that someone can probably answer is how did the officer know the victim was unarmed. There are varying accounts of whether or not the victims hands were up were down, were advancing toward the officer, etc.
I know there was allegedly an altercation in the car, but so many people have used the adjective and focused on the adjective unarmed to describe the victim, and I'm not taking a side here, just wondering how the officer knew the victim didn't have or was going to get a weapon?
In the end yes, it seems the victim was unarmed but did the officer know this and still use deadly force, or was the officer unsure of this and decided to use deadly force.
Speaking of which, what happened to the other Ferguson thread?