was that this officer had just been honored by the Ferguson police department for meritorious service. His father tweeted a photo and said how proud he was of his son.
Now, all of a sudden, he's a cold blooded racist murderer?
would be saying anything about him. As I've said numerous times already, cops kill people who look like Michael Brown and who're in possession of weapons and no one protests, rallies, riots, etc.
Calling people without weapons "armed" and those carrying (and using) weapons of deadly force "victims" isn't going to go over well the the families of those killed. That's one of the things these national stories often have in common... the "threat" doesn't have a weapon while the "threatened" does. There are cases in which the "threatened" are found guilty of crimes (Detroit porch shooting, recent Florida shooting into a car, John White case) and others in which they're found not guilty or weren't charged (Martin, Marine shooting in Cali.).
to just say "OKAY" with this situation need to wise up too. It's not realistic. It doesn't justify any of the horseshit that's taken place in that town, but you can't expect the families to just accept that.
I can't imagine how it feels to lose a child. Yes, they knew he was troubled. But I don't see the family themselves as an issue.
The others who are driving all this senseless violence, those I blame. And those in the media and even here putting forward all the extreme BS about the cops when they clearly know nothing about the situation. They are the problem.
And the lawyers. What did Shakespeare say? I even saw that the clerk in the store who Brown robbed has a lawyer. This is good business for them I guess.
They'll never convict him of anything. Its very hard to convict a cop of wrongdoing in the line of duty. Here in the most liberal city in America ( Oakland ) Officer Johannes Mescherle assassinated a suspect in custody on video. All he got was 2nd degree manslaughter. This Ferguson cop shot a punk who attacked him. You do the math. Maybe they kick him out of the cops for violating procedure. That's the most thats likely to happen.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
The people who're looting, throwing Molotov cocktails,
and firing weapons aren't interested in Michael Brown, "justice", or the truth. That's why I just choose to focus on the family.
My opinion on this case is also far more middle of the road than other "similar" cases. The fact that this guy actually committed a crime beforehand makes me see him in a certain light. That being said, I'm extremely uncomfortable with unarmed people being shot/killed. That's obviously a difference of opinion between myself and some here. But I freely admit that this case isn't so black/white.
makes perfect sense. It seems to be in line with everything that has come out. Plus now we see the guy got his eye socket fractured when a 6'4" 290 lb guy punched him.
Tomorrow is the grand jury. See if they no bill him.
They'll never convict him of anything. Its very hard to convict a cop of wrongdoing in the line of duty. Here in the most liberal city in America ( Oakland ) Officer Johannes Mescherle assassinated a suspect in custody on video. All he got was 2nd degree manslaughter. This Ferguson cop shot a punk who attacked him. You do the math. Maybe they kick him out of the cops for violating procedure. That's the most thats likely to happen.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
By doing his job he 'provoked' the situation? So he should just stand back and do nothing? And why is firing 6 shots suspicious? Are you a cop? Did you read the autopsy? The first 5 shots didn't do enough to stop him.
You don't have to defend the cop, but your second guessing of him is a bit much.
RE: The people who're looting, throwing Molotov cocktails,
and firing weapons aren't interested in Michael Brown, "justice", or the truth. That's why I just choose to focus on the family.
I think the family wants what is going on during the daylight hours. I don't think they want what is going on at night. Most of the people arrested are not community members. Some are professional agitators. Some, IMHO, heard Sharpton was taking a lead role and assumed he wouldn't stop until he got his Yankel Rosenbaum and a shitload of publicity.
the curfew had ended last night. The streets were cleared after protesters started shooting and throwing molotov cocktails. 2 people were shot by protesters last night. Police did not fire a shot last night.
had a national profile but not nearly what he has now. He has more to lose and the idea that he wants "a Yankel Rosenbaum" this time around has more to do with people's preexisting dislike for him (however justified) than what he might actually want to see happen here.
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways. Some people always, ALWAYS take the side of the cops (or, perhaps more accurately, against the black kid). Some always side with the black kid.
It just always fascinates me that people are seemingly unaware that they are filtering their reality so blatantly through their own prejudices, agendas and preconceived notions. For example, people who side with Cliven Bundy against the "police state" suddenly find themselves siding with "law and order".
It really seems that most people have just completely abdicated the ability to engage in critical thought. Personally, I have no idea who is right or wrong about what happened with this incident in Ferguson in terms of the initial shooting, but I do know that rioting and looting are doing more harm to this community than the original shooting ever could have. Peaceful protests are great. Insisting on a special prosecutor, or even a federal inquiry is great. But this violence and civil unrest is not the path to justice.
I will be interested to see if this orbital fracture stuff is true or not. I suspect this is nonsense coming out of the right wing media, but I could be wrong. Meanwhile, the cigarillo robbery angle seem questionable. See link.
People should settle down and let the process work itself out. I know this is boring, but it really is the way that justice gets done. Not by throwing rocks or bottles, or by proclaiming the cop innocent because the kid he shot was a "savage". Link - ( New Window )
right after the shooting. Doesn't look like someone who just got his eye socket broken. Not once does he even touch his eye. I saw a kid get his eye socket broken by a thrown pitch once, he was lying on the floor crying in the fetal position for about 20 minutes.
FMiC
GMANinDC : 9:11 am : link : reply
I tried to stay out of this whole issue, but where did you get the statement that the violence won't stop until justice is served?..
I just read that they was on the Today show yestrerday saying it had to stop and the focus should be on Brown death..
I don't know what Today Show interview you saw, but the one today with Matt Lauer interviewing the parents had the mom say there will be no peace until justice is served.
When Lauer bottom line asked "What is justice", she said the arrest, arraignment, and successful conviction of the person who murdered her son. She might have even said "executed", but I can't remember if it was her or the family lawyer that said it.
she followed it up with the already tired slogan, "No Justice, No Peace".
I wonder if it is shown that Brown didn't have his arms up if we'll stop hearing the crap "Hands up, don't shoot" as if some kid showing no harm to an officer is going to be shot with his hands in the air and supposedly on his knees.
This is why initial reports need to be verified before sending a frothed mob out into the streets.
What if somebody said justice should be the jailing of every looter and vandal involved here? I'm sure we'd hear some pile of shit about it being OK because people were in a racial rage, a precedent that was set during the rodney King riots.
right after the shooting. Doesn't look like someone who just got his eye socket broken. Not once does he even touch his eye. I saw a kid get his eye socket broken by a thrown pitch once, he was lying on the floor crying in the fetal position for about 20 minutes.
Link - ( New Window )
Awfully far away to draw any conclusions. We'll all be better served when the medical reports are released.
him giving the clerk money? did he stuff it in his shirt as he was grabbing him around the neck and pushing him?
Or are we seeing different videos? I saw one where a guy walks into a store, grabs merchandise, and instead of just leaving actually takes time to push the scrawny clerk.
I find it very suspicious that they wouldn't immediately release the information that the officer had been injured in an altercation with the suspect since it would have bolstered their case that the officer acted in self-defense. Maybe they were waiting to make sure no video of the incident surfaced that would counter the claim?
because he had just heard of the robbery and MB matched the description of the suspect? That would suggest that the clerk actually did call the authorities.
I find it very suspicious that they wouldn't immediately release the information that the officer had been injured in an altercation with the suspect since it would have bolstered their case that the officer acted in self-defense. Maybe they were waiting to make sure no video of the incident surfaced that would counter the claim?
The Indymedia contingent has arrived, we were clearly lacking that informed perspective beforehand.
Why on earth wouldn't the Ferguson police publicize that immediately, since it would bolster their officer's story? That alone makes it pretty dubious. Couple that with the video of the cop walking around with no visible distress from what would be a fairly serious injury, and I'm comfortable saying that it's a fairy tale.
"It is always so fascinating to me
Don in DC : 2:37 pm : link : reply
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways"
I think there's a pretty big middle ground here on BBI of people who are suspending judgement until evidence is confirmed and evaluated by neutral professionals. But that doesn't mean we aren't interested in discussing purported evidence when it comes out, just that it isn't in any way conclusive.
The officer who shot and killed an unarmed teenager in Ferguson, Missouri was injured in the alleged altercation, according to Ferguson Chief of Police Tom Jackson.
Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen." The chief did not say if the officer suffered any broken bones.
"The chief did not say if the officer had suffered any broken bones." If he had indeed sustained a broken orbital bone, they would have shouted it from the rooftops as it supported the idea that Brown was a danger to the officer's safety. "Facial injury" could be anything - it could be a scratch, some swelling, a bruise.
I can't say for sure that it's bullshit, no, but I don't find it convincing when the only source for the broken bone claim is a conservative blogger.
That interview with the police chief occured on Wednesday, four days after the shooting. Guess Wilson hadn't had a chance to drop by the emergency room by then.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
I said the same thing in the other thread about Ferguson. If this officer has a fractured eye, that would have leaked to the major media outlets first. This info would be a major factor in this whole case. If Brown broke his eye socket, the shooting takes on a whole new light
Now, all of a sudden, he's a cold blooded racist murderer?
Calling people without weapons "armed" and those carrying (and using) weapons of deadly force "victims" isn't going to go over well the the families of those killed. That's one of the things these national stories often have in common... the "threat" doesn't have a weapon while the "threatened" does. There are cases in which the "threatened" are found guilty of crimes (Detroit porch shooting, recent Florida shooting into a car, John White case) and others in which they're found not guilty or weren't charged (Martin, Marine shooting in Cali.).
You can be upset and want to find out the truth without knocking over convenience stores in town.
The others who are driving all this senseless violence, those I blame. And those in the media and even here putting forward all the extreme BS about the cops when they clearly know nothing about the situation. They are the problem.
And the lawyers. What did Shakespeare say? I even saw that the clerk in the store who Brown robbed has a lawyer. This is good business for them I guess.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
My opinion on this case is also far more middle of the road than other "similar" cases. The fact that this guy actually committed a crime beforehand makes me see him in a certain light. That being said, I'm extremely uncomfortable with unarmed people being shot/killed. That's obviously a difference of opinion between myself and some here. But I freely admit that this case isn't so black/white.
Tomorrow is the grand jury. See if they no bill him.
I'm not defending the cop. I suspect he did his share to provoke this situation and the fact that he fired six shots is suspicious. Wouldn't the first shot have disabled Brown or at least stopped his advance ? The Meritorious service award doesn't mean jack shit. On a small time force probably every body who keeps their nose clean for a few years gets an award.
By doing his job he 'provoked' the situation? So he should just stand back and do nothing? And why is firing 6 shots suspicious? Are you a cop? Did you read the autopsy? The first 5 shots didn't do enough to stop him.
You don't have to defend the cop, but your second guessing of him is a bit much.
I think the family wants what is going on during the daylight hours. I don't think they want what is going on at night. Most of the people arrested are not community members. Some are professional agitators. Some, IMHO, heard Sharpton was taking a lead role and assumed he wouldn't stop until he got his Yankel Rosenbaum and a shitload of publicity.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
It just always fascinates me that people are seemingly unaware that they are filtering their reality so blatantly through their own prejudices, agendas and preconceived notions. For example, people who side with Cliven Bundy against the "police state" suddenly find themselves siding with "law and order".
It really seems that most people have just completely abdicated the ability to engage in critical thought. Personally, I have no idea who is right or wrong about what happened with this incident in Ferguson in terms of the initial shooting, but I do know that rioting and looting are doing more harm to this community than the original shooting ever could have. Peaceful protests are great. Insisting on a special prosecutor, or even a federal inquiry is great. But this violence and civil unrest is not the path to justice.
I will be interested to see if this orbital fracture stuff is true or not. I suspect this is nonsense coming out of the right wing media, but I could be wrong. Meanwhile, the cigarillo robbery angle seem questionable. See link.
People should settle down and let the process work itself out. I know this is boring, but it really is the way that justice gets done. Not by throwing rocks or bottles, or by proclaiming the cop innocent because the kid he shot was a "savage".
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
GMANinDC : 9:11 am : link : reply
I tried to stay out of this whole issue, but where did you get the statement that the violence won't stop until justice is served?..
I just read that they was on the Today show yestrerday saying it had to stop and the focus should be on Brown death..
I don't know what Today Show interview you saw, but the one today with Matt Lauer interviewing the parents had the mom say there will be no peace until justice is served.
When Lauer bottom line asked "What is justice", she said the arrest, arraignment, and successful conviction of the person who murdered her son. She might have even said "executed", but I can't remember if it was her or the family lawyer that said it.
she followed it up with the already tired slogan, "No Justice, No Peace".
I wonder if it is shown that Brown didn't have his arms up if we'll stop hearing the crap "Hands up, don't shoot" as if some kid showing no harm to an officer is going to be shot with his hands in the air and supposedly on his knees.
This is why initial reports need to be verified before sending a frothed mob out into the streets.
What if somebody said justice should be the jailing of every looter and vandal involved here? I'm sure we'd hear some pile of shit about it being OK because people were in a racial rage, a precedent that was set during the rodney King riots.
Link - ( New Window )
Awfully far away to draw any conclusions. We'll all be better served when the medical reports are released.
Lots of questionable assumptions going around on both sides.
Or are we seeing different videos? I saw one where a guy walks into a store, grabs merchandise, and instead of just leaving actually takes time to push the scrawny clerk.
The Indymedia contingent has arrived, we were clearly lacking that informed perspective beforehand.
Link - ( New Window )
Lots of questionable assumptions going around on both sides.
I am just curious why the cops name was important but the robbery video was not?
Why does that matter? Bruise, break, etc. Either way, it means there was an altercation. Nothing dubious.
Good. Time to loot some liquor stores and get free stuff.
Don in DC : 2:37 pm : link : reply
how these types of incidents are always interpreted by people in pre-programmed ways"
I think there's a pretty big middle ground here on BBI of people who are suspending judgement until evidence is confirmed and evaluated by neutral professionals. But that doesn't mean we aren't interested in discussing purported evidence when it comes out, just that it isn't in any way conclusive.
Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen." The chief did not say if the officer suffered any broken bones.
Officer suffered facial injuries - ( New Window )
I can't say for sure that it's bullshit, no, but I don't find it convincing when the only source for the broken bone claim is a conservative blogger.
Check the link and the author..If this came out at 10, it wold have been breaking news for about 4 hours now..
I said the same thing in the other thread about Ferguson. If this officer has a fractured eye, that would have leaked to the major media outlets first. This info would be a major factor in this whole case. If Brown broke his eye socket, the shooting takes on a whole new light