NFT: Fantasy Chat - 8/19

I think its Charles or Mccoy are what most consider the number 1 pick but Forte is going to get a ton of work and they really dont have a secondary back...

make sure you get West...he is going to get a lot of looks especially since Tate does get banged up a lot and West may get 3rd downs..

I'd rather fill my roster with as many starters as possible at RB. I feel like people draft backup RB's way earlier than they should just because they also own their starter.

But yes, I am targeting West, but I will be doing so even if I don't draft Tate.

In comment 11814129 UConn4523 said:

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I'd rather fill my roster with as many starters as possible at RB. I feel like people draft backup RB's way earlier than they should just because they also own their starter. But yes, I am targeting West, but I will be doing so even if I don't draft Tate.

Yeha i am not into handcuffing either...i was just making the point that West is going to get a lot of work in my opinion...it almost seems like the same situation as last year with bernard...

I never paid much attention to it, but I've gotten fucked over too many times in the past where my stud RB goes down and the handcuff is already on another team. Taking a handcuff is just like buying insurance. You hope you don't need them, but at least it's there if you do.

That being said, reaching for a handcuff shouldn't happen.

there's a bunch of guys i'm targeting, but i'll let everyone else overdraft the backups. There's going to be a ton of injuries and its impossible to predict.

and always over draft if they really want someone...they get to scared that the player wont be there and take a player 2 rounds to early and i love it...

In comment 11814145 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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I never paid much attention to it, but I've gotten fucked over too many times in the past where my stud RB goes down and the handcuff is already on another team. Taking a handcuff is just like buying insurance. You hope you don't need them, but at least it's there if you do. That being said, reaching for a handcuff shouldn't happen.

I guess its semantics then. Handcuffing to me means taking a guy well before you should for said insurance. No chance i'm doing that. I'd rather get maximum value with each pick and worry about injuries later. If you have 4 RB's that get starting touches, then there's no need to worry about drafting AP's back-up just to sit on your bench until he gets injured.

.

when you draft a handcuff you end up releasing him for someone better on the free agent market after week 1 or 2 anyway...

no chance i'm drafting Asiata over someone who may actually surprise and produce out of the gates. I'd rather a guy like Blount, White, or even Mason who may all get worked into 5-7 touches a game with upside.

I'm basically targeting split back fields in the late rounds. Guys that may only get 25% of the looks early on but can take off if they produce or if their is an injury.

because there are situations when you would want to handcuff. It's usually not something I do because I'd rather build my depth and utilize the trade market to upgrade my roster, but there are situations in which it makes sense.

I take almost nothing away from last nights game based on results. Just snaps and playing time.

So I'm drafting tonight for one of my leagues (it's a cheaper league with a bunch of friends so it's not my main league)

I haven't done all my HW yet but the way the scoring is, like all of the top 10 players in scoring in this format last year were QB's. McCoy was the highest scoring RB, IIRC and he was all the way down at like 10th or 11th overall in points last year.

SO. I always get hung up strategically on this. If QB's are the ones who clearly produce the most points in a given format, does it make the most sense to take one early and get the highest point producer possible. Or because QB's will get you so many points, do you wait on QB and get a hold of RB's (or maybe a RB/WR) first and worry about QB later since you can still get a good one later on?

I can't decide which would be more advantageous. I'm leaning towards going RB/RB/WR (not necessarily in that order) with my first 3 picks unless I'm in an optimal spot to take Peyton in the 1st rd (I don't know where I am picking yet) and worrying about QB later.

In my main league last year, I waited til rd 5 to go QB and I took Brady there and still wound up with Foles and Rivers so I feel like I should wait.

It seems as though McCoy, Charles, Forte and AP are going to be gone and I do not like Lacy. Therefore, my options will be Peyton, Graham or Calvin. Gotta take Calvin if he's there, right? If one of the top 4 RB's are there, I'm taking one of them.

who had little to no role otherwise, stepped in for an injured stud and actually produced at a high level?

it's impossible to know unless we know how many more pts the top QB's had over the next tier and how many pts McCoy and Charles had in comparison to the next tier.

when you had Arian Foster was one of those situations that it made sense.

I would never overdraft for a handcuff. Sometimes people do that when there are upside guys available.

had some value even if he wasn't starting, as he was getting touches every week. I didn't really see him as a handcuff, but he's also a guy that didn't come close to putting up Foster type numbers when he did get the job to himself.

In comment 11814205 YAJ2112 said:

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who had little to no role otherwise, stepped in for an injured stud and actually produced at a high level?

Why does a handcuff have to be someone with little to no role otherwise? Fred Jackson would have been a nice handcuff to have for CJ Spiller owners last year when CJ Spiller was rumored to run the ball until he puked. L Blount is a good handcuff to have for Le'Veon Bell, etc.

Again, I wouldn't weigh it too heavily...but I don't think it's dumb.

where do you see him going? I have Foster as a 2nd round grade...I would take him 2nd round if the tope Wrs are gone Dez, Aj, Marshall, Thomas

Just curious where everyone as him..

outscored Spiller last year, so he's no handcuff.

as was Jackson and/or spiller. Again, there are certainly times when it makes sense, but it's not something I often look to do unless it's the right situation. Like when you have a great system offense. Then the value has to be there and there isn't anyone on the board that I view as a starter.

In comment 11814225 YAJ2112 said:

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outscored Spiller last year, so he's no handcuff.

My point exactly.

You're using revisionist history. If you check their 2013 ADP, it will be obvious who the "handcuff" was.

I'd absolutely snatch him up if he fell to my 3rd pick though. Unless you pick top 3 in a 12 team league, then it might make sense in rd2.

It was pretty clear that Marrone intended to use 2 backs from the start, so Jackson was going to have value regardless of Spiller's production/health. Just b/c people undervalued Jackson in drafts doesn't mean he was a handcuff.

In comment 11814239 kmed said:

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I'd absolutely snatch him up if he fell to my 3rd pick though. Unless you pick top 3 in a 12 team league, then it might make sense in rd2.

Yeha i have him late second after Brees Rodgers and the wrs..I have Bernard, Murray and Martin ahead of him...

If i have one of the top 3 picks (wont know until draft day) he may be an option along with Nelson and Jeffery..

In comment 11814241 YAJ2112 said:

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It was pretty clear that Marrone intended to use 2 backs from the start, so Jackson was going to have value regardless of Spiller's production/health. Just b/c people undervalued Jackson in drafts doesn't mean he was a handcuff.

Actually thats not true...it was talkd about how Spiller would be the work horse and get the ball until he pukes..

Because he was expected to have a huge role, whether or not Fred Jackson had a role doesn't matter. Still constitutes as a handcuff, at least IMO.

I don't know where this notion that a RB has to have zero role whatsoever to be a handcuff. Maybe I just interpret what a handcuff is differently.

it didn't mean that Jackson wasn't going to get touches as well, it meant they were going to run the ball a lot.

kmed..

Top 5 QB's..

Peyton - 529 pts
Brees - 447 pts
Dalton - 374 pts
Rivers - 362 pts
Newton - 358 pts

Top 5 RB's..

Charles - 343 pts
McCoy - 304 pts
Forte - 300 pts
Moreno - 266 pts
Lynch - 257 pts

So there's a pretty big gap but there's also a huge dropoff between Peyton/Brees and the rest of the QB's.. the RB dropoff is obviously much less steep.

So. Like I said, I think if I am in a position to take Peyton, I would. But if not, I'd probably go RB and worry about QB later.

but Spillers adp was 8 and Jackson's was about 130. To a lesser extent, Knowshon Moreno last year.

he has some value to any team as a potential flex/bye week fill in, not just as a stash/hold guy in case the starter goes out. That's the difference to me.

And absolutely consider him a handcuff.

I think this is just a difference of opinion on the definition of what a handcuff is, which is fine.

In comment 11814259 arcarsenal said:

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kmed.. Top 5 QB's.. Peyton - 529 pts Brees - 447 pts Dalton - 374 pts Rivers - 362 pts Newton - 358 pts Top 5 RB's.. Charles - 343 pts McCoy - 304 pts Forte - 300 pts Moreno - 266 pts Lynch - 257 pts So there's a pretty big gap but there's also a huge dropoff between Peyton/Brees and the rest of the QB's.. the RB dropoff is obviously much less steep. So. Like I said, I think if I am in a position to take Peyton, I would. But if not, I'd probably go RB and worry about QB later.

arc, that's like my league, QB's are really valuable, but top end QB's are invaluable. I have the 6th pick and I'm contemplating Peyton in rd1(but leaning against it because I think I can get better value). If Brees is there with my 2nd pick, I can't see me passing him up. If Peyton and Brees are gone when I pick 2nd, I'll consider Rodgers.

That being said, if none of those situations pan out or if a stud WR falls to my 2nd pick(AJ Green, Dez, Marshall), I'm not taking a QB until like rd 7.

going into 2013, Spiller had an average draft position of 8 and Jackson had an average draft position of 133. Fred Jackson ended up as the 9th best RB in my league. He was absolutely a handcuff to Spiller.

He's neck and neck with Brees IMO. I'd pass on Peyton and go for either Brees or Rodgers in the 2nd if that's how your scoring is.

presented the following options:

1 - draft starter only (and draft other RB for bench)
2 - draft backup only (and have drafted other team's starter early)
3 - draft both starter/backup

I would always choose 1 or 2 (pending how I felt about the players involved) over 3. Choosing 1 or 2 gives me 2 potential starters in case of injury, option 3 wastes a roster spot to me as I will only have 1 potential starter each week.

I know they are going to throw a ton. I also know that they are going to continue throwing until the game is over. I also know that they play in a climate controlled environment. For those reasons, I have him slightly ahead of Rodgers.

how can he be a handcuff if Spiller was playing the whole time? It was a time share, not an either/or thing.

In comment 11814286 YAJ2112 said:

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how can he be a handcuff if Spiller was playing the whole time? It was a time share, not an either/or thing.

At the draft he was considered a handcuff. It turned into a timeshare both due to CJ Spillers injury and Fred Jackson performing well. You can't just use hindsight and say he wasn't a handcuff.

a handcuff is a backup who has no value outside of an injury or garbage time.

Its an overused label at this point. A guy like Fred Jackson is not a handcuff, he's a legit player who's going to produce regardless of Spiller.

In comment 11814269 kmed said:

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In comment 11814259 arcarsenal said: Quote: kmed.. Top 5 QB's.. Peyton - 529 pts Brees - 447 pts Dalton - 374 pts Rivers - 362 pts Newton - 358 pts Top 5 RB's.. Charles - 343 pts McCoy - 304 pts Forte - 300 pts Moreno - 266 pts Lynch - 257 pts So there's a pretty big gap but there's also a huge dropoff between Peyton/Brees and the rest of the QB's.. the RB dropoff is obviously much less steep. So. Like I said, I think if I am in a position to take Peyton, I would. But if not, I'd probably go RB and worry about QB later. arc, that's like my league, QB's are really valuable, but top end QB's are invaluable. I have the 6th pick and I'm contemplating Peyton in rd1(but leaning against it because I think I can get better value). If Brees is there with my 2nd pick, I can't see me passing him up. If Peyton and Brees are gone when I pick 2nd, I'll consider Rodgers. That being said, if none of those situations pan out or if a stud WR falls to my 2nd pick(AJ Green, Dez, Marshall), I'm not taking a QB until like rd 7.

Agreed, that's pretty much how I'm looking at it.

In comment 11814297 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 11814286 YAJ2112 said: Quote: how can he be a handcuff if Spiller was playing the whole time? It was a time share, not an either/or thing. At the draft he was considered a handcuff. It turned into a timeshare both due to CJ Spillers injury and Fred Jackson performing well. You can't just use hindsight and say he wasn't a handcuff.

I'm not using hindsight. I didn't consider him a handcuff at draft time last year.

Which as I said before, is perfectly fine. I see guys like L Blount, who is projected to have snaps/carries every game, a handcuff to Le'Veon Bell.

Just a difference of opinion is all.

My league is a PPR league, but gives bonuses for long TDs. Any TD is 6 points, Plus 3 points for a PaTD of 10 to 39 Yds and then Plus 6 points for a PaTD of 40+ Yds.

Peyton scored 809 points last year
Brees scored 681 points last year.

In comparison, Jamal Charles scored 413 points last year
while LeSean McCoy scored 391 points last year...

I have the first pick. Explain to me how I dont take Brees or Manning first overall....

Brees is who I think I am going with based on the Saints schedule and the fact Denver plays NFC West this year.

In comment 11814318 mac attack said:

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My league is a PPR league, but gives bonuses for long TDs. Any TD is 6 points, Plus 3 points for a PaTD of 10 to 39 Yds and then Plus 6 points for a PaTD of 40+ Yds. Peyton scored 809 points last year Brees scored 681 points last year. In comparison, Jamal Charles scored 413 points last year while LeSean McCoy scored 391 points last year... I have the first pick. Explain to me how I dont take Brees or Manning first overall.... Brees is who I think I am going with based on the Saints schedule and the fact Denver plays NFC West this year.

You have to compare Peyton/Brees numbers to the other QBs like Luck, Rivers, etc. Then you compare Charles/McCoys numbers to other RBs. It's not as simple as comparing the QB numbers to the RB numbers.

In comment 11814259 arcarsenal said:

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kmed.. Top 5 QB's.. Peyton - 529 pts Brees - 447 pts Dalton - 374 pts Rivers - 362 pts Newton - 358 pts Top 5 RB's.. Charles - 343 pts McCoy - 304 pts Forte - 300 pts Moreno - 266 pts Lynch - 257 pts So there's a pretty big gap but there's also a huge dropoff between Peyton/Brees and the rest of the QB's.. the RB dropoff is obviously much less steep. So. Like I said, I think if I am in a position to take Peyton, I would. But if not, I'd probably go RB and worry about QB later.

I look at it differently. If you have an elite QB and the scoring system favors QB's, you grab one and then you're set at that position. Every other position you can build stellar groups, so while you might not have an elite WR or RB you could have a stable of very good ones who are going to give you points and production every week.

I've won 4 fantasy titles in the last 6 years with this method (and made the championship game 5 times with 1 third place finish), but the scoring is heavily favored for QB's and I've had Brees and then Peyton as my QB's.

In comment 11814354 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 11814259 arcarsenal said: Quote: kmed.. Top 5 QB's.. Peyton - 529 pts Brees - 447 pts Dalton - 374 pts Rivers - 362 pts Newton - 358 pts Top 5 RB's.. Charles - 343 pts McCoy - 304 pts Forte - 300 pts Moreno - 266 pts Lynch - 257 pts So there's a pretty big gap but there's also a huge dropoff between Peyton/Brees and the rest of the QB's.. the RB dropoff is obviously much less steep. So. Like I said, I think if I am in a position to take Peyton, I would. But if not, I'd probably go RB and worry about QB later. I look at it differently. If you have an elite QB and the scoring system favors QB's, you grab one and then you're set at that position. Every other position you can build stellar groups, so while you might not have an elite WR or RB you could have a stable of very good ones who are going to give you points and production every week. I've won 4 fantasy titles in the last 6 years with this method (and made the championship game 5 times with 1 third place finish), but the scoring is heavily favored for QB's and I've had Brees and then Peyton as my QB's.

I mean, is there really a "too early" to take Peyton? I feel like taking him 1st is completely justifiable in a league like mine because the gap between he and the next best players is so much larger than any other position AND he's the top scorer overall.

To me, it seems like Peyton really should be the 1st pick in most formats because the logic supports it. But people are taking guys like McCoy and Charles before him for whatever reason.