Your paragraph on Eli simply not being good anymore is a realistic possibility a lot of fans here don't want to consider. Many people get defensive about it. Not everybody has a 15 year career.
If Eli repeats last year the Giants need to either force him to take a paycut or cut him and move on. I love Eli but I love the Giants more. If he doesn't improve we get a new coach and move on with a new QB.
he is out because of an injury, the verdict on Eli will be known by Halloween at the latest IMO. Another year like last year and he probably won't be with the Giants in 2015. He's due $17M next year IIRC. That really isn't the issue, because I assume they can dramatically lower that cap number by extending his deal. But will they want to if he plays again like he did last season? Probably not.
Just because Peyton is still playing, and playing well, late into his thirties, doesn't mean that Eli can. I still have hope that we will see the old Eli, and that his performance last year was more a function of the entire offense being broken than of his personal decline as a QB. But we can't rule out the latter.
If Eli repeats last year the Giants need to either force him to take a paycut or cut him and move on. I love Eli but I love the Giants more. If he doesn't improve we get a new coach and move on with a new QB.
Force him to take a paycut? So what is your "going rate" for a two-time SB MVP that hypothetically throws 27 ints two years in a row...
but it sure seems more and more like JPP is a one-trick pony. Pretty disappointing so far. Hope he at some point decides to start mixing it up a little more.
some of the more important and glaring issues (in my opinion):
- The line, IS NO BETTER, than it was last year, especially at the interior spots. Schwartz is a marginal player, Walton has looked less than impressive coming off an injury, and Mosely has been average at best and is basically a starter by default. Protection has been a disaster and there is NO push on running plays.
- Cruz and Randle have continued to struggle to get any type of separation. I don't care what anyone says, Cruz did not have a great season last year and struggled at times. He has had issues getting open in both practice and the preseason.
Just to be fair though, if we're going to ding Eli for that INT that got called back, we should credit him for the long strike to Cruz that would have counted if Cruz didn't fumble the ball away.
there is no more glaring issue a team can have than problems at qb.
Agreed. But I am not nearly as concerned about Eli as these other areas. We all know what Eli is capable of and when his offensive line protects and receivers get open, he is a dangerous QB that will pick you apart. Whether or not he can be the Pro Bowl Eli of old remains to be seen, but he's a proven commodity. Cruz has had one great season (playing opposite Hakim Nicks who had an even better one) and Randle has been inconsistent. This line is what keeps me up at night and I see no fix in sight...
but I disagree with your contention that Eli had a bad 2012. The Giants were ranked 9th in the league in passing that year, and Eli's QB rating was 87.2, his second highest, beating even 2008.
sorry, i see that you said it wasn't as good as 2011
about JPP than I am about Eli to be honest. I never expected the Offense to look that good this pre-season or early in the regular season given all the changes and I certainly didn't expect Eli to just seamlessly transition into some WCO machine. Would I like to see more? Sure I would but I'm not shocked by the slow progress at all. I suggest some go check out the article posted earlier today where the CBS analysts (except for Boomer, obviously) give a more reasoned take on just what this Offensive change entails...especially Gannon.
JPP on the other hand has me a bit worried and I'm really hoping Damonster can get in there with the starters and shine so they can add some "quick twitch" to JPP's bullrush....I really hope teams haven't figured him out.
boy, Eric I hope you're wrong about Eli being done, but I hate to say I'm seeing the same thing. I really hope we see something in the next game or two. There is a possibility that we're seeing all the vanilla stuff, but I highly doubt it.
Minor correction needed in the third paragraph of the Defensive Line section.
...Eli may not either. I said it last year many times that Eli looked shell shocked and frankly playing scared. He still looks that way. I'd be surprised that he doesn't kill us this year even worse than last year because at least last year he knew the offense. Combined scared with confused...and you have a disaster in the making.
I also said that Nassib looked more comfortable with the WC offense than Manning, and I still see this is true.
We've seen that before when he was younger... I don't think we have to worry about Eli's psyche. He's as mentally tough as he is physically tough. Is he likely hearing footsteps out there and feeling defenders maybe a little closer than they actually are? Sure. It will take some time for him to grow comfortable with the 4 new guys charged with protecting him... And here we are in the pre-season and while he hasn't had terrible protection on every pass play.. To say he's had a comfortable pocket would be a very generous statement. If they can put a decent O-Line out there... Eli will be fine.
1. If Eli is turning into a David Carr/Neil Lomax type QB, then what? Deal with it for this year only and move on?
2. If we move on, is it Ryan Nassib as the answer?
3. If not, who is available in Free Agency next year to offer us salvation?
4. Would we trust in the 2015 College Draft the next "Mr. Football?"
Reading what everyone is writing over the past few weeks scares me about this team. And it's not only Eli, there are a multitude of issues that have surfaced this preseason.
Sure the Oline needs to gel. Geoff Schwartz is being lambasted and should be on the left side. Has Pugh regressed due to the proverbial Sophomore jinx? JPP needs to stop talking and start playing. The #1 receivers aren't in sync, and the second and third stringers are lighting it up. It goes on, and on...
I say let's be positive until proven wrong, even if it takes two-four games in the regular season (like Spags' Defense did for two games).
If The giants turn the page on Eli they'd likely bring in a veteran free agent to compete with Nassib unless they're in a position to draft Winston or Mariotta.
I'm wondering if the Giants also have doubts about Eli.
I found it very telling that they didn't rework his contract and extend him last year. Usually teams don't want their franchise QB going into their last year unsigned. But I guess I'm just stating the obvious.
It looks like his foot work is all off and he's forcing throws like he did last year. He definitely has more time to set his feet and throw but does that leave more of a opportunity to take a hit in a meaningless game? I guess we will find out pretty soon.
He can and is willing to step up into, he will not do well. He is not mobile and this offense may be a disaster. We shall see. Give him a pocket and a couple seconds to make a read and throw downfield and Eli is awesome.
He threw for almost 5k yards two years ago. He didnt all of a sudden lose it.
RE: I'm wondering if the Giants also have doubts about Eli.
I found it very telling that they didn't rework his contract and extend him last year. Usually teams don't want their franchise QB going into their last year unsigned. But I guess I'm just stating the obvious.
He's under contract for 2014 and 2015 (though he doesn't have a ton of dead money for 2015) and, with how their cap situation turned out for 2014, it actually wouldn't have made sense to extend him this past offseason and push more money forward, regardless of how they feel about him.
Agreed that "done" was overstated / not what you said.
I think what you're saying is that based on his play in 2012, 2013 and 2014 pre-season so far, he may have peaked and there is a concern he may be on a somewhat steep decline.
If so, I don't think it is physical, but as others have said, he may have "David Carr Syndrome" (which I think isn't curable).
Let's hope the offense's poor performance is due to a combination of experimentation / familiarization with offense in general and offensive line in particular.
Look, Eli has his faults as we all know...he's a gunslinger who doesn't flinch and is always thinking the next throw will turn the game around...why? Because he's done it multiple times.
Unfortunately, this doesn't always translate into glory as we have witnessed throughout his career but he's also capable of putting the team on his back when other parts aren't fully in sync.....when the entire offense is a complete cluster f**k as it was last year, you have what I consider to be Eli's perfect storm...thus, the interception fest, the confusion and the rattled/happy feet. He's shown that in the past but the offense was never as bad as it was last year...I would argue few offenses have ever been that bad. So, what you had was Eli being Eli in that he just doesn't get bothered by defeat and moves on to the next play...unfortunately, that very trait helped to torpedo the season.
Now that they've burned it all down and started from scratch...it's gonna take a bit for him and everyone else on offense to get comfortable, it is what it is. What we're seeing is essentially an offense full of rookies trying to learn a system and thinking too much while also getting to know each other.
While this could be a disaster in the making and I suppose Eli could fall off a cliff for good, I think it's a bit early to be talking about "turning the page' on the Eli era after 3 pre-season games..I for one have seen waaaay too much from him to doubt him now...just my two cents.
but I'd be concerned if I heard whispers of any doubt coming from the organization. His dad took a brutal beating and didn't play scared. I don't think it's in his makeup. You can make all the bogus David Carr who got sacked often from Day 1, but I ain't buying it
but I'd be concerned if I heard whispers of any doubt coming from the organization. His dad took a brutal beating and didn't play scared. I don't think it's in his makeup. You can make all the bogus David Carr who got sacked often from Day 1, but I ain't buying it
No one, NO ONE, questions whether Eli can take a beating. Roll back the 2011 NFCC game vs SF. That was one of the greatest QB beatings I had ever seen. The real question is whether or not Eli is damaged beyond repair; not whether he can take a beating.
Eli held the record for consecutive starts, he played with that plantar fiwatchmacallit he played hurt and could have sat a number of times and nobody would have questioned his toughness. Now all of sudden he developed David Carr syndrome. The owner of this site puts it out "maybe" and the lemmings all line up. This place is becoming a joke.
RE: So when they drafted Bomar was that a pre-pre-warning sign?
Eli held the record for consecutive starts, he played with that plantar fiwatchmacallit he played hurt and could have sat a number of times and nobody would have questioned his toughness. Now all of sudden he developed David Carr syndrome. The owner of this site puts it out "maybe" and the lemmings all line up. This place is becoming a joke.
Eli has been trending downward for 2 straight years. He was horrific last year and opponents publically opined that they could intimidate him into mistakes on the field.
Who cares if he's held the record for consecutive starts. This isn't iron man, it's football.
RE: RE: So when they drafted Bomar was that a pre-pre-warning sign?
Yes he did. Seven years, three Pro Bowls, and two Super Bowl MVPs ago...not to mention all of the consecutive starts...not to mention coming back from an ankle injury that most thought would keep him on the sidelines this Spring (hint, it didn't).
So why don't you take your act back to Giants.com? I'm sure they miss you over there.
If Eli repeats last year the Giants need to either force him to take a paycut or cut him and move on. I love Eli but I love the Giants more. If he doesn't improve we get a new coach and move on with a new QB.
Just because Peyton is still playing, and playing well, late into his thirties, doesn't mean that Eli can. I still have hope that we will see the old Eli, and that his performance last year was more a function of the entire offense being broken than of his personal decline as a QB. But we can't rule out the latter.
If Eli repeats last year the Giants need to either force him to take a paycut or cut him and move on. I love Eli but I love the Giants more. If he doesn't improve we get a new coach and move on with a new QB.
Force him to take a paycut? So what is your "going rate" for a two-time SB MVP that hypothetically throws 27 ints two years in a row...
- The line, IS NO BETTER, than it was last year, especially at the interior spots. Schwartz is a marginal player, Walton has looked less than impressive coming off an injury, and Mosely has been average at best and is basically a starter by default. Protection has been a disaster and there is NO push on running plays.
- Cruz and Randle have continued to struggle to get any type of separation. I don't care what anyone says, Cruz did not have a great season last year and struggled at times. He has had issues getting open in both practice and the preseason.
- The pass rush has been underwhelming so far.
Not only did he whiff on the block, but he made the stop on Jennings in the hole. Needless to say his blocking leaves a lot to be desired.
Agreed. But I am not nearly as concerned about Eli as these other areas. We all know what Eli is capable of and when his offensive line protects and receivers get open, he is a dangerous QB that will pick you apart. Whether or not he can be the Pro Bowl Eli of old remains to be seen, but he's a proven commodity. Cruz has had one great season (playing opposite Hakim Nicks who had an even better one) and Randle has been inconsistent. This line is what keeps me up at night and I see no fix in sight...
JPP on the other hand has me a bit worried and I'm really hoping Damonster can get in there with the starters and shine so they can add some "quick twitch" to JPP's bullrush....I really hope teams haven't figured him out.
Minor correction needed in the third paragraph of the Defensive Line section.
From:
[/quote] ... defensive line ...[/quote]
To:
[/quote] ... offensive line ...[/quote]
I also said that Nassib looked more comfortable with the WC offense than Manning, and I still see this is true.
But again to clarify, I didn't say Eli was done. But I said that terrible scenario has to be at least contemplated.
2. If we move on, is it Ryan Nassib as the answer?
3. If not, who is available in Free Agency next year to offer us salvation?
4. Would we trust in the 2015 College Draft the next "Mr. Football?"
Reading what everyone is writing over the past few weeks scares me about this team. And it's not only Eli, there are a multitude of issues that have surfaced this preseason.
Sure the Oline needs to gel. Geoff Schwartz is being lambasted and should be on the left side. Has Pugh regressed due to the proverbial Sophomore jinx? JPP needs to stop talking and start playing. The #1 receivers aren't in sync, and the second and third stringers are lighting it up. It goes on, and on...
I say let's be positive until proven wrong, even if it takes two-four games in the regular season (like Spags' Defense did for two games).
thank you, and you're welcome.
If The giants turn the page on Eli they'd likely bring in a veteran free agent to compete with Nassib unless they're in a position to draft Winston or Mariotta.
He threw for almost 5k yards two years ago. He didnt all of a sudden lose it.
He's under contract for 2014 and 2015 (though he doesn't have a ton of dead money for 2015) and, with how their cap situation turned out for 2014, it actually wouldn't have made sense to extend him this past offseason and push more money forward, regardless of how they feel about him.
I think what you're saying is that based on his play in 2012, 2013 and 2014 pre-season so far, he may have peaked and there is a concern he may be on a somewhat steep decline.
If so, I don't think it is physical, but as others have said, he may have "David Carr Syndrome" (which I think isn't curable).
Let's hope the offense's poor performance is due to a combination of experimentation / familiarization with offense in general and offensive line in particular.
Look, Eli has his faults as we all know...he's a gunslinger who doesn't flinch and is always thinking the next throw will turn the game around...why? Because he's done it multiple times.
Unfortunately, this doesn't always translate into glory as we have witnessed throughout his career but he's also capable of putting the team on his back when other parts aren't fully in sync.....when the entire offense is a complete cluster f**k as it was last year, you have what I consider to be Eli's perfect storm...thus, the interception fest, the confusion and the rattled/happy feet. He's shown that in the past but the offense was never as bad as it was last year...I would argue few offenses have ever been that bad. So, what you had was Eli being Eli in that he just doesn't get bothered by defeat and moves on to the next play...unfortunately, that very trait helped to torpedo the season.
Now that they've burned it all down and started from scratch...it's gonna take a bit for him and everyone else on offense to get comfortable, it is what it is. What we're seeing is essentially an offense full of rookies trying to learn a system and thinking too much while also getting to know each other.
While this could be a disaster in the making and I suppose Eli could fall off a cliff for good, I think it's a bit early to be talking about "turning the page' on the Eli era after 3 pre-season games..I for one have seen waaaay too much from him to doubt him now...just my two cents.
No one, NO ONE, questions whether Eli can take a beating. Roll back the 2011 NFCC game vs SF. That was one of the greatest QB beatings I had ever seen. The real question is whether or not Eli is damaged beyond repair; not whether he can take a beating.
Jerry Reese once called Eli "skittish"
Eli has been trending downward for 2 straight years. He was horrific last year and opponents publically opined that they could intimidate him into mistakes on the field.
Who cares if he's held the record for consecutive starts. This isn't iron man, it's football.
Quote:
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Jerry Reese once called Eli "skittish"
So Reese has been trying to find Eli's replacement and thinking he sucked since at least 2007 is what you're saying?
Quote:
In comment 11815013 Riggies said:
Quote:
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Jerry Reese once called Eli "skittish"
So Reese has been trying to find Eli's replacement and thinking he sucked since at least 2007 is what you're saying?
Bomar was drafted in 2009, before 2011.
The point is that Eli has never been Reese's QB.
2) Aaron Donald stinks
Quote:
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Jerry Reese once called Eli "skittish"
Yes he did. Seven years, three Pro Bowls, and two Super Bowl MVPs ago...not to mention all of the consecutive starts...not to mention coming back from an ankle injury that most thought would keep him on the sidelines this Spring (hint, it didn't).
So why don't you take your act back to Giants.com? I'm sure they miss you over there.