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BBI Giants-Jets Game Preview

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 2:02 pm
FYI.
Preseason Game Preview: New York Giants at New York Jets, August 22, 2014 - ( New Window )
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33-3.. LOL  
arcarsenal : 8/21/2014 6:34 pm : link
I'm about as negative as I've been about this team in 5 years and that still looks totally ridiculous to me.

I know it's not a big deal. I just don't even know where that comes from. Even if our first team O struggles again, we aren't going to lose the game by 30 points.
Martin  
geemanfan : 8/21/2014 7:11 pm : link
Is as much of a left tackle as Pugh is . They both don't have the arm length to be franchise left tackles. So to say that Martin would be playing left tackle over here when the best left tackle in the draft is playing right tackle is a little silly.
Jets just finished practice  
nygiants1114 : 8/21/2014 7:17 pm : link
Eagles surprised the league by practicing day before games....lots of other teams following suit, giants have started to use some technology as well.
FYI, this is the time of the offseason  
Randy in CT : 8/21/2014 8:01 pm : link
where Eric gets moody! We're 3-0 and showed some good stuff and a buncha crap, but these are practice games! Ginats 85.
Getz -1
RE: Hammer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/21/2014 8:27 pm : link
In comment 11818351 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So you are saying drafting a top prospect OT/OG would have not solved some problems for the Giants? I don't get that logic.

As for LT, including Mayock, saw him as a LT. He won't play that in Dallas for obvious reasons.


I'm saying the expectation that we'd be "better off" with Martin seems like an overly simple answer to a far more complicated question. Better prospects, true LT prospects that went to teams needing LTs, are not winning LT positions out of training camp as we debate this, But reading the opinions, people are extremely quick to point out that Martin could step in and play LT right away based on what seems like nothing more than because it was said during the draft by guys like mayock.


Mayock also said teddy bridgewater's pro day, throwing against air, made him change his perception of the kid as a QB and doubt his legitimacy as a pic, despite years of excellent, productive game tape of live action. It's hard to really have a high opinion of his ability to evaluate after a line like that.

For the first time since Bradshaw hobbled off into the sunset  
IIT : 8/21/2014 9:29 pm : link
I'm optimistic about what we have at RB. So there's that.

The state of the OL is a result of Reese's draft philosophy which was to burn premium picks elsewhere and try to develop starters on the line out of later round picks. We can see how well that worked out.

It's difficult to judge Eli accurately because of how crappy the surrounding cast has been recently. How can you draw any reasonable conclusions about him when he's had no protection, no running game, no tight ends, and one receiver who was always doubled?

Today he still has a questionable line that is thinner than rolling papers, no tight ends, and we've replaced broken Nicks with broken ODB.

I do think the defense could become a strength and produce a lot of turnovers. We might, *MIGHT* be able to live off that and a decent running game until our offense sorts itself out.
Eric needs to relax about the Snoopy Bowl  
Killed the K-Gun : 8/21/2014 9:48 pm : link
The score prediction makes it hard for me to consider the rest of the analysis fairly.
Not really getting  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 10:15 pm : link
the Reese hate all of the sudden. He is responsible for the roster. The entire 53. How he gets those players or where he drafts them is really insignificant. Have the Giants had bad rosters from 2008-2012? Those teams all looked pretty damn good on paper heading in. For every guy he took a flier on in the 3rd and 4th round that didn't work out he made up with it by finding studs completely undrafted(Cruz, Hynoski, Hill) He's been remarkably efficient in the 1st and 2nd rounds too where you almost have to find players and many teams haven't had the luck he's had there. Its not his fault if a guy breaks his neck. How about Beason for a 7th rounder? Reese has done a fine job and Im happy to have him.
I'm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:36 pm : link
just waiting for the Nassib hate in the 3rd quarter when the guy gets clobbered with Asper or whomever they throw out at LT after Beatty and Pugh leave the game.

Who the (blank) in the pro personnel department said, "Hey, Charles Brown and John Jerry can help us"?
I think they were both signed as depth  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 10:42 pm : link
signings. Both have started many NFL games and are not that old. The problem with the line is general is that they all got old and needed to be replaced almost at the exact same time. Sure there should have been a better contingency plan, but its not easy to just find 5 starters in year and half or so. If the Giants don't go to the playoffs this year it will be because of the o-line and that might just be what happens. Might take a full year more to replace the whole thing and have it playing on a high level and thats really the only issue with this team. Every thing else is far less significant.
ZGiants98  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:46 pm : link
the problem is they needed to start rebuilding the line last year and this year.

Pugh may be someone they can build around (he's struggled a bit this preseason). But they only drafted Richburg this year. It looks like they overpaid and overrated Schwartz. We'll see about Walton.

In a nutshell, I'm not sure we have 5 legit starters.

But I do know we have virtually ZERO depth. If anyone gets hurt - and someone WILL get hurt - it's back to what it was last year.

We have dreadful tight ends. Randle and Jernigan have not stood out. Beckham's rookie year may be a wash. Cruz is going to get doubled again. The good news is our running game should be stronger.

But this is not a good roster right now. And I think this will be proven by how hard the Giants look at the waiver wire in the next two weeks.
Booth and Beatty were actually pretty good  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 10:47 pm : link
2 years ago. Snee and Bass weren't ancient. Its not like they had a crystal ball and saw Beatty and Booth regressing the following year AND Beatty breaking his leg, and have Bass and Snee get hurt so bad they have to retire.
ZGiants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:51 pm : link
Snee, Diehl, and Baas - physically - were all breaking down. Baas was NEVER healthy when he was hurt. And when he wasn't healthy, he sucked. Snee was a shadow of himself the last couple of years. Diehl had a great career here, but really declined the last couple of years too.

The problem was that guys who they drafted like Brewer, McCants, Mosley, Petrus, Koets, etc. didn't develop. We'll see with Mosley, but the rest were busts.
Im with you on the o-line  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 10:51 pm : link
Its a real concern. If Beatty can't go we might be fucked. Seems like they did make an effort to address the line but it hasn't gone perfect. Brown has been a mess. Like I said... the o-line will dictate our season.

I could care less about the TE's or if Beckum can play right away. Its so far down the totem pole compared to the o-line. If Eli has time he will find his targets. Cruz is a pro-bowler. Randle has flashed. All of the receivers that make the roster will have talent. He's made household names out of no names a million times already. If he doesn't have time to throw or the line can't open holes for the backs the season is over. If he does, we'll be fine. Its really that simple. At least to me.
I don't think guys like  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 10:54 pm : link
McCants, Petrus, Koets were drafted as future starters. They went o-line high the last two years. It was clearly a concern to them. I just think the whole thing unraveled too fast. They should have had a better contingency plan in place, you are right but with salary cap in todays NFL makes that difficult and they rolled the dice. It didn't work out. Now they are scrambling to rebuild it.
ZGiants98  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:59 pm : link
I thought getting Randle where they did was a steal and was touting him all last year.

But he made a ton of mental mistakes last year and I haven't seen him do anything yet. We're not even hearing about him making plays in camp.

I'd start giving Washington or Harris some of his playing time.
ZGiants98  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 11:01 pm : link
I will say this...one thing I think they are hiding is the passing game to Jennings. I wouldn't be shocked if he is our #1 receiver (in terms of catches) this year. I think when the games count, he's going to catch a ton of passes.
Like you said also...  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 11:02 pm : link
Snee, Diehl, and Bass were all breaking down. But you left out Booth and Beatty. If both of them were their 2012 versions, healthy and on the roster, everything would look pretty good right now. The guys they drafted to replace Diehl ect are here and healthy(Pugh) Its not like they sat on their hands. I don't think any team could replace an entire o-line that quick. We've had a remarkable run but we might have to suffer a down year and half because of this.
Im with you on all of that...  
ZGiants98 : 8/21/2014 11:05 pm : link
And I think it will work out. Jennings health scares me a little but he is a good back if he's healthy.

The receivers don't worry me. Harris and Washington have both looked awesome really. If Beckum isn't healthy and redshirts I'd like to see one of these kids get a chance. Randle reminds me of Manningham from a couple years ago. Some guys it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on but he's already flashed enough for me to know he'll be somewhat productive. Again...if Eli has time.
The OL sucked in 2011. They won in spite of them largely.  
Riggies : 8/21/2014 11:23 pm : link
It was extremely up and down, all over the place, in 2012.

It was beyond putrid in 2013.

Here we are in 2014 and the OL again looks like it's going to be a major problem, given the talent they're working with.

You can not want Jerry Reese fired, even remain a big time fan boy, and still admit that he's fucked this one thing up at least. Because when you're pretty much four years in from things going off the rails and they're this bleak, someone with the say he has pretty much has to have fucked up.
Look  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 11:26 pm : link
at the Eagles...everyone says Kelly's system, Foles, receivers, backs...but what stands out to me is their OL. Their OL played great last year.
Peters, Kelce, and Mathis are all top ten players in the NFL, at their  
Riggies : 8/21/2014 11:40 pm : link
respective positions, right now (before the season unfolds).

The Eagles pretty much got the absolute best case scenario for all their key seriously injured OL from a couple years (when Peters torn his Achilles, Kelce his ACL/MCL, etc). I don't wish anyone injury or shortened careers individually, but that type of positive outcome in general for that team sucks.
The OL was showing early signs of weakness three or four seasons ago.  
Red Dog : 8/22/2014 12:00 am : link
And I agree that they won in 2011 in spite of a weakening OL, not because of it.

But they didn't take serious steps to start bringing in top quality replacements or building quality depth until it was obvious to everyone in the world that things were falling apart fast. And by then it was too late.

and yet...  
ZGiants98 : 8/22/2014 12:08 am : link
if Beatty and Booth stayed at their 2012 versions and even improved a little(should have been expected) the line is roses right now. It is what it is and its not pretty. Beatty is the big concern and the depth at tackle sucks. Considering literally the whole season rests on that one point don't be surprised to see a move or two. He'll be scanning the wire when teams cut down to 53. He's done it before. A Shawn Andrews type. If not.. he'll likely trade a pick to bring in a guy. We can't flush the whole season down the drain because Charlie effing Brown didn't work out.
RE: ODB being useless is a killer.  
BSIMatt : 8/22/2014 12:26 am : link
In comment 11818118 drkenneth said:
Quote:
First Wilson career ends, now your #1 in 2014 has hamstring issues, which apparently he had in college as well.

Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.


He played in 39 of 40 games at LSU, caught a pass in 37. Still waiting to see some links regarding Beckham and hamstring issues. I dont see how the Giants would be in much better shape with Martin as they did spend a 2nd round pick on an OL they seem very happy with already. Martin might be the better player over Richburg, but saying much better I think is a stretch, they are both rookies.
Twice Reese has plucked aging veterans off the waiver wire  
Reese's Pieces : 8/22/2014 3:09 am : link
who had a couple of good years left and they made substantial contributions to the Super Bowl runs. Kawika Mitchell and Michael Boley. He could find a tackle certainly better than we have to hold the fort for a year or two.

Right now they just haven't done enough to upgrade the line for Eli. This all seemed settled at the post-season press conference, but then they use their #1 draft choice on a wide receiver and their biggest free agent contract on a corner.

These won't help if Eli is being chased around the backfield launching wounded ducks off his rear foot.
.  
kepler20 : 8/22/2014 6:57 am : link
If we normalized last year *to* league average QB play (opposition of course) we really were somewhere between a 4 to 6 win team.
Ifs and buts ^^^^  
Killed the K-Gun : 8/22/2014 6:59 am : link
You are your record. No more, no less.
it's all on Jerry and TC.  
kepler20 : 8/22/2014 7:03 am : link
Jerry and TC have basically misfired on every mid round draft pick the last 4 years. When you look at why we haven't been to the playoffs that's exactly why.

In the middle rounds you hope to find guys who can be average starters or at replacement level players. These are the guys wwho fill up your roster and compliment your stars.

We had stars. But Jerry's boom/bust drafting style has cost us. Now we wonder if Eli is irreparably damaged.
Well if we are as bad as you all say and we follow EA  
Carl in CT : 8/22/2014 7:48 am : link
Strategy (ie when u can get a franchise QB u take him). We should
Have a (gulp) top 5 pick. What say you Mr. duck or FSU stud. What's your preference? Let's play a few games first fellas.
If the score with the first string is on track  
Headhunter : 8/22/2014 8:02 am : link
to the predicted score, then an 0-16 season is on the cards. This is the Jets, I didn't realize they were a Super Bowl potential team until Tuesday of this week. I hope the big bad Jets don't run it up
I'm glad I was travelling and missed the Colts game. This is the  
Victor in CT : 8/22/2014 8:39 am : link
Jets annual Super Bowl. It always means more to them, but the Giants have got to show that they can at least be competent on offense. Randle especially has to show SOMETHING. I agree with Eric that I thought he was a great value where they drafted him, but this is his 3rd year and its time to show that he can at least be a solid contributor.
HH....  
drkenneth : 8/22/2014 8:44 am : link
Why are you so hung up on the score? Who gives a shit?
I don't normally pay much attention to the preseason  
UberAlias : 8/22/2014 9:09 am : link
At least not how the team looks overall -I usually only care about individual performances. But today I have to admit I will be tuned in, especially to the offense.

I agree, the general feeling is that this offense could be historically bad. But I think under the circumstances (new offense, major turnover of personnel, no game planning, etc.) it is only fair to reserve expectations until seeing how they look in tonight's trial run.

The running game could be better this year. So far we have seen too much of JJ and MM. I'm done with those guys. I am not going to write Randle off yet because he did show some real potential last year, but if he can't get it done at least we have seen the kids Harris and Washington making plays late in games. Who knows, maybe they are the real deal. The OLine has been an experiment to this point. Decide on a configuration and run with it.

Is another move in the works? If I were Reese, I would be thinking very hard about it. When it comes to your roster you need to be decisive. If I were Mara and I saw another rotten egg tonight, you better believe Reese would be sitting in my office tomorrow and answering to --what are we going to do about it?
Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???  
Mike L. : 8/22/2014 9:11 am : link
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!
RE: Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???  
UberAlias : 8/22/2014 9:18 am : link
In comment 11818888 Mike L. said:
Quote:
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!


Part of the problem is that there were not that many legitimate hits and too many of the ones we did have left for FA. I was saying for years that I was concerned about the cap because it always seemed we were on a slim budget and Philly was loaded. I kept hearing all the doubters asking what has Philly won in response, but now here we are, after years of seeing as many starters leave or get hurt as we drafted and little by little the roster talent has evaporated. We keep having to invest in draft picks to replace young guys who have left. You want guys leaving when they are old, not when they are entering their prime!
Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C"  
SGMen : 8/22/2014 9:23 am : link
None. And 2009 was an F overall.

2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.

Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 8/22/2014 9:32 am : link
In comment 11818904 SGMen said:
Quote:
None. And 2009 was an F overall.

2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.

Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.


A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
RE: RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C  
Victor in CT : 8/22/2014 9:33 am : link
In comment 11818914 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
In comment 11818904 SGMen said:


Quote:


None. And 2009 was an F overall.

2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.

Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.



A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.


well said
The score is the only thing that matters  
Headhunter : 8/22/2014 9:37 am : link
because without betting and the line, football would lose a percentage of their "fans"
Just to be different ......  
sackpack : 8/22/2014 9:50 am : link
this is the week that the Giants offense begins to show it hasn't been sleeping all training camp. Nothing fantastic but glimpses of what is to come. Giants win a tightly-contested game and Giant's fans everywhere breathe a sigh of relief. Progress will be made on a week-to-week basis. We will need to win early games with a strong running game and good defense.
People knock  
ryanmkeane : 8/22/2014 10:06 am : link
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.
Regarding  
ryanmkeane : 8/22/2014 10:15 am : link
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.
Regarding  
ryanmkeane : 8/22/2014 10:18 am : link
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.
One more comment  
ryanmkeane : 8/22/2014 10:23 am : link
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.
RE: People knock  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 1:10 pm : link
In comment 11818973 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.


Can't cherry pick games to make your point. He also played bad vs SF in the Championship game. But I agree he wasn't altogether bad, just too injury-prone.
RE: Regarding  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 1:11 pm : link
In comment 11818988 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.


Agree, the "I told you stuff on draft picks" when the NFL season hasn't even started is comical.
RE: Regarding  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 1:14 pm : link
In comment 11818995 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.


The 08-12 drafts were a mess in hindsight. That is what many posters have already said and its true. Hindsight is easy for us, but right/wrong, Reese is judged by it.
RE: One more comment  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 1:17 pm : link
In comment 11819004 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.


Most aren't ready to pull plug, but for a rookie WR to miss OTAs and all of training camp doesn't bode well to contribute much this season. There are always outliers but you know this is the norm.
Ryan - i just wanted you to know somebody  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 1:18 pm : link
was reading your posts since you typed so many in a row :)
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