The OL is a mess. With Brewer and Brown out, once the starters are gone, Nassib and Painter will be running for their lives with Asper playing left tackle.
Eric. I agree with just about every point. The only savign grace for the team to start the year will be if wecan run the ball somewhat effectively. Win Special teams and play good defense.
If we have to rely on Eli and the passing game, it could get ugly.
Connor Hughes is good sometimes, but other times he is just off.
Beatty wasn't good last year, but in no way was he the worst OL on this team. We had No C, and both of our OG's played far worse. Beatty is a capable starter in this league, he may not be a top 10 OT, but he is more than serviceable and he has shown that in the past.
I will say this. If this OL doesn't gel and the rebuild
doesn't work, then the Giants really need to look into how they scout OL. Because supposedly our OL coach is some kind of super respected expert, right?
It was 26-0 last week in the 4th quarter. And the Painter drive only got started after a penalty wiped out a 3rd down sack. Or that game may have ended with a shutout.
I really can't believe how bad our drafts have been
I really can't believe Reese has done such a piss poor job of taking care of the O-Line when the single most important piece of the puzzle is Eli. Now, even when there isn't pressure, Eli still thinks there is and totally rattled.
I'm wondering if 2014 goes as bad as it could, does Reese depart with Coughlin and possibly Eli.
It was 26-0 last week in the 4th quarter. And the Painter drive only got started after a penalty wiped out a 3rd down sack. Or that game may have ended with a shutout.
Because Colts @ Indy > Jets @ MetLife.
And the Giants are feeling some heat now, in front of local fans.
I really can't believe Reese has done such a piss poor job of taking care of the O-Line when the single most important piece of the puzzle is Eli. Now, even when there isn't pressure, Eli still thinks there is and totally rattled.
I'm wondering if 2014 goes as bad as it could, does Reese depart with Coughlin and possibly Eli.
It's a fair question. I hope we are being dramatic, but this looks real bad.
I've been on BBI since 2005, and I don't think it has ever been this negative for a pre-season. I'm not disagreeing with Eric's prediction, but I am a little surprised on how depressed people are, especially about Eli. Not so long ago, if you expressed such doubts, you got hammered. Believe,I know.
I've been on BBI since 2005, and I don't think it has ever been this negative for a pre-season. I'm not disagreeing with Eric's prediction, but I am a little surprised on how depressed people are, especially about Eli. Not so long ago, if you expressed such doubts, you got hammered. Believe,I know.
Its because you hammered only Eli when it was clear that our OL and WRs were just as bad. And now people are flat out seeing that this offense, Eli included, may just not be good enough.
Reese's main job is personnel. My God, look at the drafts we've had 08 - 12. As Eric has said this team is totally gutted. It looks like a credit to Coughlin that we've managed to do as well as we have.
O-Line is a mess, we have the worst TEs in the league, we have no depth at RB and on top of everything we may not have much a pass rush on the other side of the ball.
I don't think I've ever really put it all together like this, the terrible drafting, many questionable FA moves... I dunno. But yeah, this is scary.
RE: RE: I'm just stunned at hoe negative BBI is now
I've been on BBI since 2005, and I don't think it has ever been this negative for a pre-season. I'm not disagreeing with Eric's prediction, but I am a little surprised on how depressed people are, especially about Eli. Not so long ago, if you expressed such doubts, you got hammered. Believe,I know.
Its because you hammered only Eli when it was clear that our OL and WRs were just as bad. And now people are flat out seeing that this offense, Eli included, may just not be good enough.
Dep, you are full of it. I have been very critical of Reese's drafts and the Giants overall talent level. You are so in love with Eli you only see and hear comments about him.
right on buddy. There were times last year where I thought you were Nicks' agent.
And I have said it many times already that Eli may have lost it this year. I am a big fan of being a heavy run team. I dont think we have a good OL, I think the WRs are average at best, and when Eli does get time he has been off.
But keep on thinking you bashed others than Eli last year. You blamed him for EVERYTHING.
the Giants have NOT completed a pass longer than 10 yards this preseason.
Eli is 1-of-9 in the last two games. Our wide receivers, OL, TEs, and QB look like a mess.
The Giants HAVE completed a pass over 10 yds(Even Manning has Cruz just managed to fumble the one he did)so don't just throw out comments as facts.
The offense looked fine against Buffalo and everyone was excited(Manning 6-7 with short passes this is going to be great!)then they get behind the chains against Pittsburgh and flat out sucked against a good Colts team(although if Cruz hangs on and Jernigan makes a catch it could be different)and the season is over.
The Giants have huge issues, I think we all get this, but a lot of us were saying this offense was going to struggle early on and then improve. I don't get why so many people dismiss this possibility.
The O-line has some talent...give Beatty a chance to play. The Giants have two decent backs and a rookie who just might be able to play if he can block(certainly an achievable skill)and who knows how things will look if Beckham can actually get healthy.
They may yet be a 5 win team but lets give it just a bit before we anoint them as the worst team ever.
Sheesh!
Fire Eli, fire the Coach, fire the Front Office...
but the poor evaluation of OL talent, and the complete lack of interest in getting at least a serviceable TE have really soured me.
Maybe we are all wrong, and the OL will gel, but for a team that has a history of winning championships behind a tough, bruising, consistent OL, it baffles me how many times we have whiffed.
We've gone from one of the best offensives in the league (best NYG offense in my lifetime) to a situation where I get excited if our starting QB completes a pass.
Panic? I'm not panicking. But I don't like the signs.
Beckham is a huge loss.
And half of Jerry Reese's OL fix - Brown and Jerry - are downright whiffs (again).
Eric is usually optimistic. Very telling, although given all of the change, I don't think its going to be this bad. However I do worry if some of the change was for change's sake. Always telling when guys are brought in on 1 year deals - as Jerry and Brown were. My biggest 2 concerns are that Beatty cannot recover and Schwartz is a bad signing. And for what its worth, my 3rd is that JPP's success was because he played on a line with Tuck and Osi in their primes. His decline came as soon as he started being doubled and tripled. I seem to remember Strahan being able to deal with that....
right on buddy. There were times last year where I thought you were Nicks' agent.
And I have said it many times already that Eli may have lost it this year. I am a big fan of being a heavy run team. I dont think we have a good OL, I think the WRs are average at best, and when Eli does get time he has been off.
But keep on thinking you bashed others than Eli last year. You blamed him for EVERYTHING.
Yes, I defended Nicks. But don't tell me what I wrote or think. I've posted many times how many picks have been wasted on WRs who didn't pan out. I supported Graziano when he accurately wrote the Giants were suffering from a rotting of its core. Also, glad to see you have come around to the fact that Eli is part of the problem.
Everyone needs to step back from the ledge until at least a few weeks
While things look concerning with a little experience together and some confidence things can turn around very quickly. Wayyyy too small a sample size at this point. This could get even uglier Friday and still turn around when the season starts. Its preseason with a new OL and new system. We all understand this yet so many are freaking out because they aren't doing anything yet. What were the expectations?
The line could turn into a solid unit if it stays healthy and gels. A TE could emerge. I'd have to think they can at least put a guy on the field who can block better than myers last year. And the WRs look like it could be a unit with solid depth. Beckham hasn't played but why does that rule him out to do anything when the games actually matter? If JPP and Moore can get to the QB the D could be pretty fierce. And although the RBs are thin the two guys at the top of the chart look like hard runners between the tackles
Some of you guys need to drink a half full glass of optimism. The team started 0-6 last year. To think the team can improve on that is not far fetched. The season could be an abysmal one but these small sample sizes and what we see in practice is not enough data to make that assumption that this will be a terrible season at this point. Its week 3 of the preseason and this was always going to be a huge rebuilding project and work in progress
I get the impression people are jumping to the conclusion that this is a lost season and Eli is washed up. To have concerns is one thing. But to turn that concern into an assumption is another thing. Gotta be more patient
The Giants look awful, but it's a marathon not a sprint and if Beatty comes back and Pugh continues to develop the Oline just might(key word is might)be okay.
I just want to see a little offense Friday night. Oh, and Beckham actually practice 2 days in a row!
Jets score 33 points? Maybe on INTs but apart from Mangold and Dbrickashaw, the Jets don't have a great OL; Geno still hasn't proved to be a very good passing QB; not a lot of speed at WR and TE, although Decker is very good.
Last year the Jets manhandled the Giants OL, especially tossing Cordle around like a rag doll. Yes, this year's Giants OL hasn't played well but we'll see if it's better than last year's and the Jets front 7 is a very good test. So far, IMO the best Giants OL combo is: LT Pugh (which position he played in college), LG Richburg, C Walton, RG Jerry (who's a good pass blocker when he's healthy) and RT Schwartz (in the past he's played exclusively on the right side, at RG and RT).
Giants TEs are a disaster. I'd like to see Robinson play a lot as a learning experience for him. One TE who was mentioned by one of the beat writers this week is an UDFA out of that football powerhouse Southern Connecticut, Jerome Cunningham at 6'2" 250 lbs. and good measureables with 1.64 and 4.70 in the 10 and 40, respectively (Jace Amaro, the Jets rookie high draft choice TE runs the 40 in 4.74, for example). Because Donnell (Help me, I've fallen) and Fells are very slow (4.90 and higher in the 40) and Davis has very good measureables but in the past has dropped a lot of passes, why not give Cunningham a shot?
1. Some really silly comments on Washington in that preview.
Who says he can't play special teams? He supposedly returned punts and kick offs in college. He's got the speed and size to be a good kick returner - or a good gunner - in the NFL. They ought to give him a chance to return punts. They've tried everybody except the waterboy and nobody is anything better than mediocre at best.
And who cares if he can play in the slot or not. They have Cruz, the best receiver on the team, in the slot. They have JJ behind him if they decide to keep him on the roster. Harris can definitely play there, too. They have the slot covered.
But with Randle a major question moving forward, Beckham not able to play at all, and Manningham obviously done, they have real questions about outside receivers. They need at least two starting quality outside receivers and really have none right now. And they really need some size out there, too. Washington fits the size and speed criteria to play there, and should get every possible opportunity and then some to show that he can play there. Why screw around with guys who haven't proved anything like JJ as an outside receiver?
2. Anybody who didn't see this roster train wreck coming last spring needs to have their eyes and head examined.
Reese tried to fix the OL the same way he has tried (mostly unsuccessfully I might add) to maintain the LB, RB, and TE groups - with castoffs from other teams. And it isn't working.
Miami people will tell you that John Jerry is not a motivated player. Brown was run out of New Orleans for good reason - he absolutely stunk. Schwartz, who I am still holding out hope for, is a journeyman who had a good season for KC last year. Most of those other OL guys he brought in (Kropog, Johnson-Webb, Love, Asper, etc.) are/were multiple team rejects, too. Gress was an OFA that nobody else wanted.
Actually Reese didn't have much choice due to the absolutely terrible drafting from 2008 through at least 2012 that was done on his watch, and also the contract that he gave to Beatty.
Why would we be in better shape if we had drafted Martin?
1. Eli looks like he has that "deer in the headlights" look to him. I have read he is even off in practice more often than ever. I am not even sure if he is suited to be a WCO quarterback. If he "sucks" the first seven games of the year do we go to Nassib after the bye?
2. Our wideouts scare no one. I am with Eric that the loss of Beckham is huge. My hope with him is that he sort of comes along as the season goes and helps the 2nd half of the season. If his hammy is truly injured then he'll be inactive early in the year.
3. OL. I am trying to believe that Beatty will bounce back and that the OL will be Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Schwartz-Pugh with TE Davis and FB Hynosoraus doing the blocking.
4. TE. Enough said. The group sucks but lets hope Robinson finally rounds the corner and becomes a force as a third down receiving TE type.
5. Learning Curve. This is a new offense and there will be a learning curve. Coupled with the fact that we have limited talent this could make for a very poor start of the season.
I do believe this offense will run better than last year and that we'll dink and dunk better than last year but we have no one to threaten a defense. Eli is dead meat if he tries to hold onto the ball longer for deeper plays.
The OL is a mess. With Brewer and Brown out, once the starters are gone, Nassib and Painter will be running for their lives with Asper playing left tackle.
Reese has really screwed this team.
Agree with a lot of your conclusions, but remember that the Jets' secondary is a complete mess.
I still think that at least some of the problems with the OL are from a lack of chemistry. There are certainly a lot of questions regarding their overall talent. But more time to gel may at least make them competent. The problem is that Eli may be crushed by then. Reese neglected the OL for years despite having an immobile QB.
We could indeed be in for a long season. As I have said, I think the verdict on Eli will be known by Halloween.
My father taught me as a child, that in a fight you never stop punching till the other guy is unconscious. This is a game where it doesn't matter who lines up where, or what kind of offense is called. It comes down to who is the toughest son of a bitch, man on man. The Giants need to punch these pussies in the mouth and not stop. I'm looking forward to this fight. Here we go Giants... Link - ( New Window )
this will be the 4th straight game that Eric has predicted a loss. (He's 0-3 right now).
Obviously there are concerns here with this team....I am certainly not going to make any predictions. It is odd that no one seems to care that they've won 10 out of the last 13 games they've played....that fact just doesn't seem to matter.
And it's pretty presumptive IMO to just say Zach Martin could come in
honestly? come on... i know they are playing like shit, but do you really think this team isn't prepared? in 2011, we were freaking out about WR, nicks missed time in camp and everyone was talking about how eli didn't have timing with him and how are they going to cope without steve smith... also we had just lost TT to an ACL and had Cweb and Ross as our only CBs, we were picking guys up off the street.
you don't know how a season can turn out or how a player can emerge from obscurity.. lets take a breath, get a little perspective and just enjoy football, shit we wait how long for it to come back? and all anybody can do is shit on how bad they are playing. whenever i feel upset about the giants i just think about the Bills (live in rochester) theres a team thats gone through some shit and still is (may be moving the franchise) haven't been to the playoffs in over ten years, meanwhile the giants have won 2! in that span..
a lot of other teams have it a lot worse.. Cleveland, Jacksonville, even the Jets and Philly would give anything for one super bowl..
everybody chill out, grab a beer and watch this for chrissakes...
has had some poor drafts no doubt it...and its hurt.
Look around the league though???
Every single team has had multiple bad drafts in the last 8-9 years....EVERY SINGLE TEAM. The Patriots have had some horrendous drafts in the last 5-6 years...but they win, as they have Brady.
no...he's been right about the 1st team offense...they have sucked. Big deal. Its the preseason...that's why they have the preseason. People are way to worked up right now about all of this.
I learned years ago, that you're going to be dead wrong if you predict how a team is going to do in the regular season, based on their performance in the preseason....go back and look and see how unreliable and unrelatable it is. Of course you want your team to play well...but its not as connected as one might think.
The Jets scored 13 and 25 points in their first two games
Taylor Lewan will be playing guard and reserve tackle with the Titans.
Greg Robinson is penciled in as a guard for St. Louis.
Jake Matthews was marked for RT, and even though Sam Baker went out for the year with a torn ACL,it's an open competition for replacement LT.
Cyrus Kouandjio doesn't look good in general. "Bills rookie RT Cyrus Kouandjio was reportedly "dominated" in Wednesday's joint practice with the Steelers.
The whole Buffalo offensive line apparently looked like garbage. OL coach Pat Morris called out Kouandjio during the OL vs. DL drill by saying, "You might as well be Venus de Milo." Venus de Milo is an ancient Greek statue in Paris. Kouandjio has been getting whipped by opposing pass rushers. Once viewed as the favorite at right tackle, Kouandjio will be lucky to earn the swing tackle job. Aug 13 - 6:56 PM"
My understanding was that Z. Martin could play both guard positions and RT. He was not considered a LT prospect. In retrospect, maybe we should have drafted him but there was hope Snee would bounce back and maybe have another year or two plus we desperately needed a playmaker. Beckham unfortunately has a hurt hammy and we have to live with that.
has had some poor drafts no doubt it...and its hurt.
Look around the league though???
Every single team has had multiple bad drafts in the last 8-9 years....EVERY SINGLE TEAM. The Patriots have had some horrendous drafts in the last 5-6 years...but they win, as they have Brady.
Brady didn't exactly beast last season and they won 12 games. Hell, when he missed pretty much a whole season, they were still an 11 win team.
He's certainly a great key to their long term success, but it's certainly not close to just about him up there.
one series and hands the ball to a RB three times before we punt. Then bring in Painter to absorb the beating our OL vs their DL is sure to surrender. Our first team OL has been physically outmatched so far and stunts and blitzes will only make it worse. Hopefully the OL will learn from this beat down and improve before the season begins. There is a good chance the first half will be very ugly.
He needs to get his team ready as well. With their secondary I'm sure they will blitz more than any team in the league this year. We need to watch out for Calvin Pryor as well. That rook comes ready to hit...
if that's what your father taught you he's a bad father with a terrible temper and terrible outlook on humanity.
Thanks, My Pop was in " who's who in business ", he worked on Madison avenue and was the best father a man could have. He was the guy you wanted next to you at a party or when you needed someone to have your back. He recently passed away but I will never forget the great advice he has given me. BTW I never lost a fight in my life.
One thing to remember is, at least for Friday, Washington ISN'T going to be seeing Reavis. I'm a little more optimistic about what happens when he runs with the 1's than you.
I see a team at least on paper thats better than the 2013 team that finished 7-9. Better secondary-better LBs-new OL (couldn't be worse than last yr) better RBs- different TE (again couldn't be worse than last yr). If ODB and one of the young guys steps up for real- Harris/Washington-I dare say better WRs. Because Nicks did nada. Maybe I'm just a half full glass guy. The offense will take time to gel. I have faith in Eli and Tom. We shall see who's right.
I see a team at least on paper thats better than the 2013 team that finished 7-9. Better secondary-better LBs-new OL (couldn't be worse than last yr) better RBs- different TE (again couldn't be worse than last yr). If ODB and one of the young guys steps up for real- Harris/Washington-I dare say better WRs. Because Nicks did nada. Maybe I'm just a half full glass guy. The offense will take time to gel. I have faith in Eli and Tom. We shall see who's right.
When you put it this way, I can see the positive side. My whole thing is that I really thought Snee would have that veteran "bounce back" year with the surgery and all. I also thought Will Hill would finally show and be a really good player for us. Those were two huge blows to this team along with the loss of WR Beckham.
many of us realized it was going to take more than one year to fix the issues due to significantly deficient talent in multiple areas on this team. Not having all the fixes in place and working after 3 pre-season games is not surprising.
The secondary and possibly the LB corps are much improved over last year. The OL will likely be better (hard to imagine it being worse). The RB situation (in spite of the loss of Wilson) may be better. WRs may be improved over last year (given the disappearing Nicks we saw last year).
The key of course is Eli and to a slightly lesser extent, the new offensive system. Even after a couple of regular season games, the offense may look bad (how bad was Spags defense after the first two games in 2007?). Hopefully the OL shuffling in games that don't matter will find a combination that can at least protect Eli for 3 and maybe 5 step drops.
As long as the Eagles don't improve significantly this year (one can hope), the NFC East should be a crap shoot and the Giants may still be in play in December. That's probably the best we can hope for, at least based on what we've seen so far.
We all know that the GIANTS have way under-invested in the OL (and some other positions) over the past few years.
But the background issue is that they can't make much progress towards rebuilding the roster if they keep letting their increasingly few successful draft choices leave after their first contract. Churning players at key positions just doesn't work long term because you can't build a team or build depth when you churn players.
That's been the NYG trend at DT with Griffin, then Cofield, and now Linval Joseph allowed to walk. So they have to keep spending high draft choices to replace them, and hit the inevitable klinker with Austin which just sets them back more.
So this spring they had to spend a 3rd rounder on Bromley instead of using it to further re-inforce the OL. I have every reason to believe that Bromley is going to be a very good player and won't argue against him as a prospect.
But spending all these draft choices on DTs is part of the reason that the OL sucks so badly now and does not seem to be able to protect their franchise QB, WHICH IS THE MOST DIFFICULT POSITION TO FILL IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE, including General Managers. I don't want to hear the crap about they can't afford to keep guys. They have to find a way to keep the worthwhile players and let the unproductive dreck, which they have plenty of, walk.
Now they are showing signs of churning productive WRs, too, with Manningham and now Nicks being allowed to walk. Nicks was a special case because he wasn't productive last season after being very productive earlier in his GIANTS career, and I still wonder what was behind the rumor that he was not getting along with Kevin Gilbride. But the bottom line is that they are starting to churning WRs, too. And that's another position that Reese and Company love to spend premium draft choices on - not always effectively, either - while neglecting the OL, the TEs, and for the most part the LBs.
And lastly, there is absolutely no reason in the world why a team that has a terrible OL that is not adequately protecting the most scarce resource in the game, a true franchise QB, should not spend multiple top picks on rebuilding OL.
This isn't an easy problem to solve. GIANTS management has backed themselves into a corner that they can't get out of short term. The only thing left is to pray that they haven't ruined Eli as a QB and that he won't get injured this season.
that the "realists" here will gleefully repost my prediction if it goes the other way. At least I gave the "realists" Bulletin Board Material to rejoice over if I'm wrong
Fact: Every position on the Giants has a ? mark with the exception of
I think his performance will be very telling. If he hangs in there and holds his own I will breathe a big sigh of relief. I also would love it if Pugh held his own at LT. That would be big because we really don't have a back-up LT worthy of keeping on the current roster.
I'm about as negative as I've been about this team in 5 years and that still looks totally ridiculous to me.
I know it's not a big deal. I just don't even know where that comes from. Even if our first team O struggles again, we aren't going to lose the game by 30 points.
Is as much of a left tackle as Pugh is . They both don't have the arm length to be franchise left tackles. So to say that Martin would be playing left tackle over here when the best left tackle in the draft is playing right tackle is a little silly.
So you are saying drafting a top prospect OT/OG would have not solved some problems for the Giants? I don't get that logic.
As for LT, including Mayock, saw him as a LT. He won't play that in Dallas for obvious reasons.
I'm saying the expectation that we'd be "better off" with Martin seems like an overly simple answer to a far more complicated question. Better prospects, true LT prospects that went to teams needing LTs, are not winning LT positions out of training camp as we debate this, But reading the opinions, people are extremely quick to point out that Martin could step in and play LT right away based on what seems like nothing more than because it was said during the draft by guys like mayock.
Mayock also said teddy bridgewater's pro day, throwing against air, made him change his perception of the kid as a QB and doubt his legitimacy as a pic, despite years of excellent, productive game tape of live action. It's hard to really have a high opinion of his ability to evaluate after a line like that.
For the first time since Bradshaw hobbled off into the sunset
I'm optimistic about what we have at RB. So there's that.
The state of the OL is a result of Reese's draft philosophy which was to burn premium picks elsewhere and try to develop starters on the line out of later round picks. We can see how well that worked out.
It's difficult to judge Eli accurately because of how crappy the surrounding cast has been recently. How can you draw any reasonable conclusions about him when he's had no protection, no running game, no tight ends, and one receiver who was always doubled?
Today he still has a questionable line that is thinner than rolling papers, no tight ends, and we've replaced broken Nicks with broken ODB.
I do think the defense could become a strength and produce a lot of turnovers. We might, *MIGHT* be able to live off that and a decent running game until our offense sorts itself out.
the Reese hate all of the sudden. He is responsible for the roster. The entire 53. How he gets those players or where he drafts them is really insignificant. Have the Giants had bad rosters from 2008-2012? Those teams all looked pretty damn good on paper heading in. For every guy he took a flier on in the 3rd and 4th round that didn't work out he made up with it by finding studs completely undrafted(Cruz, Hynoski, Hill) He's been remarkably efficient in the 1st and 2nd rounds too where you almost have to find players and many teams haven't had the luck he's had there. Its not his fault if a guy breaks his neck. How about Beason for a 7th rounder? Reese has done a fine job and Im happy to have him.
just waiting for the Nassib hate in the 3rd quarter when the guy gets clobbered with Asper or whomever they throw out at LT after Beatty and Pugh leave the game.
Who the (blank) in the pro personnel department said, "Hey, Charles Brown and John Jerry can help us"?
signings. Both have started many NFL games and are not that old. The problem with the line is general is that they all got old and needed to be replaced almost at the exact same time. Sure there should have been a better contingency plan, but its not easy to just find 5 starters in year and half or so. If the Giants don't go to the playoffs this year it will be because of the o-line and that might just be what happens. Might take a full year more to replace the whole thing and have it playing on a high level and thats really the only issue with this team. Every thing else is far less significant.
the problem is they needed to start rebuilding the line last year and this year.
Pugh may be someone they can build around (he's struggled a bit this preseason). But they only drafted Richburg this year. It looks like they overpaid and overrated Schwartz. We'll see about Walton.
In a nutshell, I'm not sure we have 5 legit starters.
But I do know we have virtually ZERO depth. If anyone gets hurt - and someone WILL get hurt - it's back to what it was last year.
We have dreadful tight ends. Randle and Jernigan have not stood out. Beckham's rookie year may be a wash. Cruz is going to get doubled again. The good news is our running game should be stronger.
But this is not a good roster right now. And I think this will be proven by how hard the Giants look at the waiver wire in the next two weeks.
2 years ago. Snee and Bass weren't ancient. Its not like they had a crystal ball and saw Beatty and Booth regressing the following year AND Beatty breaking his leg, and have Bass and Snee get hurt so bad they have to retire.
Snee, Diehl, and Baas - physically - were all breaking down. Baas was NEVER healthy when he was hurt. And when he wasn't healthy, he sucked. Snee was a shadow of himself the last couple of years. Diehl had a great career here, but really declined the last couple of years too.
The problem was that guys who they drafted like Brewer, McCants, Mosley, Petrus, Koets, etc. didn't develop. We'll see with Mosley, but the rest were busts.
Its a real concern. If Beatty can't go we might be fucked. Seems like they did make an effort to address the line but it hasn't gone perfect. Brown has been a mess. Like I said... the o-line will dictate our season.
I could care less about the TE's or if Beckum can play right away. Its so far down the totem pole compared to the o-line. If Eli has time he will find his targets. Cruz is a pro-bowler. Randle has flashed. All of the receivers that make the roster will have talent. He's made household names out of no names a million times already. If he doesn't have time to throw or the line can't open holes for the backs the season is over. If he does, we'll be fine. Its really that simple. At least to me.
McCants, Petrus, Koets were drafted as future starters. They went o-line high the last two years. It was clearly a concern to them. I just think the whole thing unraveled too fast. They should have had a better contingency plan in place, you are right but with salary cap in todays NFL makes that difficult and they rolled the dice. It didn't work out. Now they are scrambling to rebuild it.
I will say this...one thing I think they are hiding is the passing game to Jennings. I wouldn't be shocked if he is our #1 receiver (in terms of catches) this year. I think when the games count, he's going to catch a ton of passes.
Snee, Diehl, and Bass were all breaking down. But you left out Booth and Beatty. If both of them were their 2012 versions, healthy and on the roster, everything would look pretty good right now. The guys they drafted to replace Diehl ect are here and healthy(Pugh) Its not like they sat on their hands. I don't think any team could replace an entire o-line that quick. We've had a remarkable run but we might have to suffer a down year and half because of this.
And I think it will work out. Jennings health scares me a little but he is a good back if he's healthy.
The receivers don't worry me. Harris and Washington have both looked awesome really. If Beckum isn't healthy and redshirts I'd like to see one of these kids get a chance. Randle reminds me of Manningham from a couple years ago. Some guys it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on but he's already flashed enough for me to know he'll be somewhat productive. Again...if Eli has time.
The OL sucked in 2011. They won in spite of them largely.
It was extremely up and down, all over the place, in 2012.
It was beyond putrid in 2013.
Here we are in 2014 and the OL again looks like it's going to be a major problem, given the talent they're working with.
You can not want Jerry Reese fired, even remain a big time fan boy, and still admit that he's fucked this one thing up at least. Because when you're pretty much four years in from things going off the rails and they're this bleak, someone with the say he has pretty much has to have fucked up.
respective positions, right now (before the season unfolds).
The Eagles pretty much got the absolute best case scenario for all their key seriously injured OL from a couple years (when Peters torn his Achilles, Kelce his ACL/MCL, etc). I don't wish anyone injury or shortened careers individually, but that type of positive outcome in general for that team sucks.
The OL was showing early signs of weakness three or four seasons ago.
And I agree that they won in 2011 in spite of a weakening OL, not because of it.
But they didn't take serious steps to start bringing in top quality replacements or building quality depth until it was obvious to everyone in the world that things were falling apart fast. And by then it was too late.
if Beatty and Booth stayed at their 2012 versions and even improved a little(should have been expected) the line is roses right now. It is what it is and its not pretty. Beatty is the big concern and the depth at tackle sucks. Considering literally the whole season rests on that one point don't be surprised to see a move or two. He'll be scanning the wire when teams cut down to 53. He's done it before. A Shawn Andrews type. If not.. he'll likely trade a pick to bring in a guy. We can't flush the whole season down the drain because Charlie effing Brown didn't work out.
First Wilson career ends, now your #1 in 2014 has hamstring issues, which apparently he had in college as well.
Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.
He played in 39 of 40 games at LSU, caught a pass in 37. Still waiting to see some links regarding Beckham and hamstring issues. I dont see how the Giants would be in much better shape with Martin as they did spend a 2nd round pick on an OL they seem very happy with already. Martin might be the better player over Richburg, but saying much better I think is a stretch, they are both rookies.
Twice Reese has plucked aging veterans off the waiver wire
who had a couple of good years left and they made substantial contributions to the Super Bowl runs. Kawika Mitchell and Michael Boley. He could find a tackle certainly better than we have to hold the fort for a year or two.
Right now they just haven't done enough to upgrade the line for Eli. This all seemed settled at the post-season press conference, but then they use their #1 draft choice on a wide receiver and their biggest free agent contract on a corner.
These won't help if Eli is being chased around the backfield launching wounded ducks off his rear foot.
Jerry and TC have basically misfired on every mid round draft pick the last 4 years. When you look at why we haven't been to the playoffs that's exactly why.
In the middle rounds you hope to find guys who can be average starters or at replacement level players. These are the guys wwho fill up your roster and compliment your stars.
We had stars. But Jerry's boom/bust drafting style has cost us. Now we wonder if Eli is irreparably damaged.
Well if we are as bad as you all say and we follow EA
Strategy (ie when u can get a franchise QB u take him). We should
Have a (gulp) top 5 pick. What say you Mr. duck or FSU stud. What's your preference? Let's play a few games first fellas.
to the predicted score, then an 0-16 season is on the cards. This is the Jets, I didn't realize they were a Super Bowl potential team until Tuesday of this week. I hope the big bad Jets don't run it up
I'm glad I was travelling and missed the Colts game. This is the
Jets annual Super Bowl. It always means more to them, but the Giants have got to show that they can at least be competent on offense. Randle especially has to show SOMETHING. I agree with Eric that I thought he was a great value where they drafted him, but this is his 3rd year and its time to show that he can at least be a solid contributor.
At least not how the team looks overall -I usually only care about individual performances. But today I have to admit I will be tuned in, especially to the offense.
I agree, the general feeling is that this offense could be historically bad. But I think under the circumstances (new offense, major turnover of personnel, no game planning, etc.) it is only fair to reserve expectations until seeing how they look in tonight's trial run.
The running game could be better this year. So far we have seen too much of JJ and MM. I'm done with those guys. I am not going to write Randle off yet because he did show some real potential last year, but if he can't get it done at least we have seen the kids Harris and Washington making plays late in games. Who knows, maybe they are the real deal. The OLine has been an experiment to this point. Decide on a configuration and run with it.
Is another move in the works? If I were Reese, I would be thinking very hard about it. When it comes to your roster you need to be decisive. If I were Mara and I saw another rotten egg tonight, you better believe Reese would be sitting in my office tomorrow and answering to --what are we going to do about it?
Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!
RE: Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!
Part of the problem is that there were not that many legitimate hits and too many of the ones we did have left for FA. I was saying for years that I was concerned about the cap because it always seemed we were on a slim budget and Philly was loaded. I kept hearing all the doubters asking what has Philly won in response, but now here we are, after years of seeing as many starters leave or get hurt as we drafted and little by little the roster talent has evaporated. We keep having to invest in draft picks to replace young guys who have left. You want guys leaving when they are old, not when they are entering their prime!
Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C"
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
RE: RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
this is the week that the Giants offense begins to show it hasn't been sleeping all training camp. Nothing fantastic but glimpses of what is to come. Giants win a tightly-contested game and Giant's fans everywhere breathe a sigh of relief. Progress will be made on a week-to-week basis. We will need to win early games with a strong running game and good defense.
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.
Can't cherry pick games to make your point. He also played bad vs SF in the Championship game. But I agree he wasn't altogether bad, just too injury-prone.
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.
Agree, the "I told you stuff on draft picks" when the NFL season hasn't even started is comical.
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.
The 08-12 drafts were a mess in hindsight. That is what many posters have already said and its true. Hindsight is easy for us, but right/wrong, Reese is judged by it.
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.
Most aren't ready to pull plug, but for a rookie WR to miss OTAs and all of training camp doesn't bode well to contribute much this season. There are always outliers but you know this is the norm.
Reese has really screwed this team.
Damn they better not put Eli or Nassib in if that's the case.
If we have to rely on Eli and the passing game, it could get ugly.
lol, that's quite a prediction. We will see. I don't think the Jets are so hot, either.
The fact we don't have an NFL caliber TE on this roster is ground for dismissal.
Beatty wasn't good last year, but in no way was he the worst OL on this team. We had No C, and both of our OG's played far worse. Beatty is a capable starter in this league, he may not be a top 10 OT, but he is more than serviceable and he has shown that in the past.
It was 26-0 last week in the 4th quarter. And the Painter drive only got started after a penalty wiped out a 3rd down sack. Or that game may have ended with a shutout.
I'm wondering if 2014 goes as bad as it could, does Reese depart with Coughlin and possibly Eli.
It was 26-0 last week in the 4th quarter. And the Painter drive only got started after a penalty wiped out a 3rd down sack. Or that game may have ended with a shutout.
Because Colts @ Indy > Jets @ MetLife.
And the Giants are feeling some heat now, in front of local fans.
I'm wondering if 2014 goes as bad as it could, does Reese depart with Coughlin and possibly Eli.
It's a fair question. I hope we are being dramatic, but this looks real bad.
Its because you hammered only Eli when it was clear that our OL and WRs were just as bad. And now people are flat out seeing that this offense, Eli included, may just not be good enough.
Eli is 1-of-9 in the last two games. Our wide receivers, OL, TEs, and QB look like a mess.
O-Line is a mess, we have the worst TEs in the league, we have no depth at RB and on top of everything we may not have much a pass rush on the other side of the ball.
I don't think I've ever really put it all together like this, the terrible drafting, many questionable FA moves... I dunno. But yeah, this is scary.
Quote:
I've been on BBI since 2005, and I don't think it has ever been this negative for a pre-season. I'm not disagreeing with Eric's prediction, but I am a little surprised on how depressed people are, especially about Eli. Not so long ago, if you expressed such doubts, you got hammered. Believe,I know.
Its because you hammered only Eli when it was clear that our OL and WRs were just as bad. And now people are flat out seeing that this offense, Eli included, may just not be good enough.
Dep, you are full of it. I have been very critical of Reese's drafts and the Giants overall talent level. You are so in love with Eli you only see and hear comments about him.
And I have said it many times already that Eli may have lost it this year. I am a big fan of being a heavy run team. I dont think we have a good OL, I think the WRs are average at best, and when Eli does get time he has been off.
But keep on thinking you bashed others than Eli last year. You blamed him for EVERYTHING.
Eli is 1-of-9 in the last two games. Our wide receivers, OL, TEs, and QB look like a mess.
The Giants HAVE completed a pass over 10 yds(Even Manning has Cruz just managed to fumble the one he did)so don't just throw out comments as facts.
The offense looked fine against Buffalo and everyone was excited(Manning 6-7 with short passes this is going to be great!)then they get behind the chains against Pittsburgh and flat out sucked against a good Colts team(although if Cruz hangs on and Jernigan makes a catch it could be different)and the season is over.
The Giants have huge issues, I think we all get this, but a lot of us were saying this offense was going to struggle early on and then improve. I don't get why so many people dismiss this possibility.
The O-line has some talent...give Beatty a chance to play. The Giants have two decent backs and a rookie who just might be able to play if he can block(certainly an achievable skill)and who knows how things will look if Beckham can actually get healthy.
They may yet be a 5 win team but lets give it just a bit before we anoint them as the worst team ever.
Sheesh!
Maybe you all should save time and replace these threads with analysis of the top college prospects for the draft next year...Sy, where are you man?
Maybe we are all wrong, and the OL will gel, but for a team that has a history of winning championships behind a tough, bruising, consistent OL, it baffles me how many times we have whiffed.
As far as I know, Gino/Vick have never been mistaken for Luck
Panic? I'm not panicking. But I don't like the signs.
Beckham is a huge loss.
And half of Jerry Reese's OL fix - Brown and Jerry - are downright whiffs (again).
Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.
And I have said it many times already that Eli may have lost it this year. I am a big fan of being a heavy run team. I dont think we have a good OL, I think the WRs are average at best, and when Eli does get time he has been off.
But keep on thinking you bashed others than Eli last year. You blamed him for EVERYTHING.
Yes, I defended Nicks. But don't tell me what I wrote or think. I've posted many times how many picks have been wasted on WRs who didn't pan out. I supported Graziano when he accurately wrote the Giants were suffering from a rotting of its core. Also, glad to see you have come around to the fact that Eli is part of the problem.
While things look concerning with a little experience together and some confidence things can turn around very quickly. Wayyyy too small a sample size at this point. This could get even uglier Friday and still turn around when the season starts. Its preseason with a new OL and new system. We all understand this yet so many are freaking out because they aren't doing anything yet. What were the expectations?
The line could turn into a solid unit if it stays healthy and gels. A TE could emerge. I'd have to think they can at least put a guy on the field who can block better than myers last year. And the WRs look like it could be a unit with solid depth. Beckham hasn't played but why does that rule him out to do anything when the games actually matter? If JPP and Moore can get to the QB the D could be pretty fierce. And although the RBs are thin the two guys at the top of the chart look like hard runners between the tackles
Some of you guys need to drink a half full glass of optimism. The team started 0-6 last year. To think the team can improve on that is not far fetched. The season could be an abysmal one but these small sample sizes and what we see in practice is not enough data to make that assumption that this will be a terrible season at this point. Its week 3 of the preseason and this was always going to be a huge rebuilding project and work in progress
I get the impression people are jumping to the conclusion that this is a lost season and Eli is washed up. To have concerns is one thing. But to turn that concern into an assumption is another thing. Gotta be more patient
I just want to see a little offense Friday night. Oh, and Beckham actually practice 2 days in a row!
Last year the Jets manhandled the Giants OL, especially tossing Cordle around like a rag doll. Yes, this year's Giants OL hasn't played well but we'll see if it's better than last year's and the Jets front 7 is a very good test. So far, IMO the best Giants OL combo is: LT Pugh (which position he played in college), LG Richburg, C Walton, RG Jerry (who's a good pass blocker when he's healthy) and RT Schwartz (in the past he's played exclusively on the right side, at RG and RT).
Giants TEs are a disaster. I'd like to see Robinson play a lot as a learning experience for him. One TE who was mentioned by one of the beat writers this week is an UDFA out of that football powerhouse Southern Connecticut, Jerome Cunningham at 6'2" 250 lbs. and good measureables with 1.64 and 4.70 in the 10 and 40, respectively (Jace Amaro, the Jets rookie high draft choice TE runs the 40 in 4.74, for example). Because Donnell (Help me, I've fallen) and Fells are very slow (4.90 and higher in the 40) and Davis has very good measureables but in the past has dropped a lot of passes, why not give Cunningham a shot?
Who says he can't play special teams? He supposedly returned punts and kick offs in college. He's got the speed and size to be a good kick returner - or a good gunner - in the NFL. They ought to give him a chance to return punts. They've tried everybody except the waterboy and nobody is anything better than mediocre at best.
And who cares if he can play in the slot or not. They have Cruz, the best receiver on the team, in the slot. They have JJ behind him if they decide to keep him on the roster. Harris can definitely play there, too. They have the slot covered.
But with Randle a major question moving forward, Beckham not able to play at all, and Manningham obviously done, they have real questions about outside receivers. They need at least two starting quality outside receivers and really have none right now. And they really need some size out there, too. Washington fits the size and speed criteria to play there, and should get every possible opportunity and then some to show that he can play there. Why screw around with guys who haven't proved anything like JJ as an outside receiver?
2. Anybody who didn't see this roster train wreck coming last spring needs to have their eyes and head examined.
Reese tried to fix the OL the same way he has tried (mostly unsuccessfully I might add) to maintain the LB, RB, and TE groups - with castoffs from other teams. And it isn't working.
Miami people will tell you that John Jerry is not a motivated player. Brown was run out of New Orleans for good reason - he absolutely stunk. Schwartz, who I am still holding out hope for, is a journeyman who had a good season for KC last year. Most of those other OL guys he brought in (Kropog, Johnson-Webb, Love, Asper, etc.) are/were multiple team rejects, too. Gress was an OFA that nobody else wanted.
Actually Reese didn't have much choice due to the absolutely terrible drafting from 2008 through at least 2012 that was done on his watch, and also the contract that he gave to Beatty.
2. Our wideouts scare no one. I am with Eric that the loss of Beckham is huge. My hope with him is that he sort of comes along as the season goes and helps the 2nd half of the season. If his hammy is truly injured then he'll be inactive early in the year.
3. OL. I am trying to believe that Beatty will bounce back and that the OL will be Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Schwartz-Pugh with TE Davis and FB Hynosoraus doing the blocking.
4. TE. Enough said. The group sucks but lets hope Robinson finally rounds the corner and becomes a force as a third down receiving TE type.
5. Learning Curve. This is a new offense and there will be a learning curve. Coupled with the fact that we have limited talent this could make for a very poor start of the season.
I do believe this offense will run better than last year and that we'll dink and dunk better than last year but we have no one to threaten a defense. Eli is dead meat if he tries to hold onto the ball longer for deeper plays.
Reese has really screwed this team.
Agree with a lot of your conclusions, but remember that the Jets' secondary is a complete mess.
I still think that at least some of the problems with the OL are from a lack of chemistry. There are certainly a lot of questions regarding their overall talent. But more time to gel may at least make them competent. The problem is that Eli may be crushed by then. Reese neglected the OL for years despite having an immobile QB.
We could indeed be in for a long season. As I have said, I think the verdict on Eli will be known by Halloween.
Link - ( New Window )
Exactly. Martin can play every spot except C.
Which would still leave holes at guard to fill, unless you think they were going to use two picks in the first three rounds on offensive linemen.
I don't.
This just moves the offensive line questionmark from LT to G.
Obviously there are concerns here with this team....I am certainly not going to make any predictions. It is odd that no one seems to care that they've won 10 out of the last 13 games they've played....that fact just doesn't seem to matter.
you don't know how a season can turn out or how a player can emerge from obscurity.. lets take a breath, get a little perspective and just enjoy football, shit we wait how long for it to come back? and all anybody can do is shit on how bad they are playing. whenever i feel upset about the giants i just think about the Bills (live in rochester) theres a team thats gone through some shit and still is (may be moving the franchise) haven't been to the playoffs in over ten years, meanwhile the giants have won 2! in that span..
a lot of other teams have it a lot worse.. Cleveland, Jacksonville, even the Jets and Philly would give anything for one super bowl..
everybody chill out, grab a beer and watch this for chrissakes...
take a minute - ( New Window )
Look around the league though???
Every single team has had multiple bad drafts in the last 8-9 years....EVERY SINGLE TEAM. The Patriots have had some horrendous drafts in the last 5-6 years...but they win, as they have Brady.
Has Eric been wrong about the play of the 1st team offense? Nope.
I learned years ago, that you're going to be dead wrong if you predict how a team is going to do in the regular season, based on their performance in the preseason....go back and look and see how unreliable and unrelatable it is. Of course you want your team to play well...but its not as connected as one might think.
Greg Robinson is penciled in as a guard for St. Louis.
Jake Matthews was marked for RT, and even though Sam Baker went out for the year with a torn ACL,it's an open competition for replacement LT.
Cyrus Kouandjio doesn't look good in general. "Bills rookie RT Cyrus Kouandjio was reportedly "dominated" in Wednesday's joint practice with the Steelers.
The whole Buffalo offensive line apparently looked like garbage. OL coach Pat Morris called out Kouandjio during the OL vs. DL drill by saying, "You might as well be Venus de Milo." Venus de Milo is an ancient Greek statue in Paris. Kouandjio has been getting whipped by opposing pass rushers. Once viewed as the favorite at right tackle, Kouandjio will be lucky to earn the swing tackle job. Aug 13 - 6:56 PM"
Quote:
Martin would probably be playing RT or LT here.
Exactly. Martin can play every spot except C.
Giants O will struggle - they will throw a lot because they will not be able to run the ball.
But this tough defensive test will be good for offense needing a kick in the ass.
Look around the league though???
Every single team has had multiple bad drafts in the last 8-9 years....EVERY SINGLE TEAM. The Patriots have had some horrendous drafts in the last 5-6 years...but they win, as they have Brady.
Brady didn't exactly beast last season and they won 12 games. Hell, when he missed pretty much a whole season, they were still an 11 win team.
He's certainly a great key to their long term success, but it's certainly not close to just about him up there.
With this OL Eli better wear full body armor...
Thanks, My Pop was in " who's who in business ", he worked on Madison avenue and was the best father a man could have. He was the guy you wanted next to you at a party or when you needed someone to have your back. He recently passed away but I will never forget the great advice he has given me. BTW I never lost a fight in my life.
If he was a pscho then I'll take ten of him in the next life. :-)~
As for LT, including Mayock, saw him as a LT. He won't play that in Dallas for obvious reasons.
That - as always - is done more for entertainment.
Don't believe the Jets offense can score 33 on us? Fine. Let some of the points come off of their defense and special teams. Better?
The secondary and possibly the LB corps are much improved over last year. The OL will likely be better (hard to imagine it being worse). The RB situation (in spite of the loss of Wilson) may be better. WRs may be improved over last year (given the disappearing Nicks we saw last year).
The key of course is Eli and to a slightly lesser extent, the new offensive system. Even after a couple of regular season games, the offense may look bad (how bad was Spags defense after the first two games in 2007?). Hopefully the OL shuffling in games that don't matter will find a combination that can at least protect Eli for 3 and maybe 5 step drops.
As long as the Eagles don't improve significantly this year (one can hope), the NFC East should be a crap shoot and the Giants may still be in play in December. That's probably the best we can hope for, at least based on what we've seen so far.
But the background issue is that they can't make much progress towards rebuilding the roster if they keep letting their increasingly few successful draft choices leave after their first contract. Churning players at key positions just doesn't work long term because you can't build a team or build depth when you churn players.
That's been the NYG trend at DT with Griffin, then Cofield, and now Linval Joseph allowed to walk. So they have to keep spending high draft choices to replace them, and hit the inevitable klinker with Austin which just sets them back more.
So this spring they had to spend a 3rd rounder on Bromley instead of using it to further re-inforce the OL. I have every reason to believe that Bromley is going to be a very good player and won't argue against him as a prospect.
But spending all these draft choices on DTs is part of the reason that the OL sucks so badly now and does not seem to be able to protect their franchise QB, WHICH IS THE MOST DIFFICULT POSITION TO FILL IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE, including General Managers. I don't want to hear the crap about they can't afford to keep guys. They have to find a way to keep the worthwhile players and let the unproductive dreck, which they have plenty of, walk.
Now they are showing signs of churning productive WRs, too, with Manningham and now Nicks being allowed to walk. Nicks was a special case because he wasn't productive last season after being very productive earlier in his GIANTS career, and I still wonder what was behind the rumor that he was not getting along with Kevin Gilbride. But the bottom line is that they are starting to churning WRs, too. And that's another position that Reese and Company love to spend premium draft choices on - not always effectively, either - while neglecting the OL, the TEs, and for the most part the LBs.
And lastly, there is absolutely no reason in the world why a team that has a terrible OL that is not adequately protecting the most scarce resource in the game, a true franchise QB, should not spend multiple top picks on rebuilding OL.
This isn't an easy problem to solve. GIANTS management has backed themselves into a corner that they can't get out of short term. The only thing left is to pray that they haven't ruined Eli as a QB and that he won't get injured this season.
Fact: Eli hasn't had time to get used to this new offense.
Fact:The Jets have an outstanding D line.
Result: Trouble on Fri. night.
33-3 has some "little brother" factor in it (or Eric gave it about as much thought as a pre-season prediction deserves; about 10 seconds).
I know it's not a big deal. I just don't even know where that comes from. Even if our first team O struggles again, we aren't going to lose the game by 30 points.
Getz -1
As for LT, including Mayock, saw him as a LT. He won't play that in Dallas for obvious reasons.
I'm saying the expectation that we'd be "better off" with Martin seems like an overly simple answer to a far more complicated question. Better prospects, true LT prospects that went to teams needing LTs, are not winning LT positions out of training camp as we debate this, But reading the opinions, people are extremely quick to point out that Martin could step in and play LT right away based on what seems like nothing more than because it was said during the draft by guys like mayock.
Mayock also said teddy bridgewater's pro day, throwing against air, made him change his perception of the kid as a QB and doubt his legitimacy as a pic, despite years of excellent, productive game tape of live action. It's hard to really have a high opinion of his ability to evaluate after a line like that.
The state of the OL is a result of Reese's draft philosophy which was to burn premium picks elsewhere and try to develop starters on the line out of later round picks. We can see how well that worked out.
It's difficult to judge Eli accurately because of how crappy the surrounding cast has been recently. How can you draw any reasonable conclusions about him when he's had no protection, no running game, no tight ends, and one receiver who was always doubled?
Today he still has a questionable line that is thinner than rolling papers, no tight ends, and we've replaced broken Nicks with broken ODB.
I do think the defense could become a strength and produce a lot of turnovers. We might, *MIGHT* be able to live off that and a decent running game until our offense sorts itself out.
Who the (blank) in the pro personnel department said, "Hey, Charles Brown and John Jerry can help us"?
Pugh may be someone they can build around (he's struggled a bit this preseason). But they only drafted Richburg this year. It looks like they overpaid and overrated Schwartz. We'll see about Walton.
In a nutshell, I'm not sure we have 5 legit starters.
But I do know we have virtually ZERO depth. If anyone gets hurt - and someone WILL get hurt - it's back to what it was last year.
We have dreadful tight ends. Randle and Jernigan have not stood out. Beckham's rookie year may be a wash. Cruz is going to get doubled again. The good news is our running game should be stronger.
But this is not a good roster right now. And I think this will be proven by how hard the Giants look at the waiver wire in the next two weeks.
The problem was that guys who they drafted like Brewer, McCants, Mosley, Petrus, Koets, etc. didn't develop. We'll see with Mosley, but the rest were busts.
I could care less about the TE's or if Beckum can play right away. Its so far down the totem pole compared to the o-line. If Eli has time he will find his targets. Cruz is a pro-bowler. Randle has flashed. All of the receivers that make the roster will have talent. He's made household names out of no names a million times already. If he doesn't have time to throw or the line can't open holes for the backs the season is over. If he does, we'll be fine. Its really that simple. At least to me.
But he made a ton of mental mistakes last year and I haven't seen him do anything yet. We're not even hearing about him making plays in camp.
I'd start giving Washington or Harris some of his playing time.
The receivers don't worry me. Harris and Washington have both looked awesome really. If Beckum isn't healthy and redshirts I'd like to see one of these kids get a chance. Randle reminds me of Manningham from a couple years ago. Some guys it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on but he's already flashed enough for me to know he'll be somewhat productive. Again...if Eli has time.
It was beyond putrid in 2013.
Here we are in 2014 and the OL again looks like it's going to be a major problem, given the talent they're working with.
You can not want Jerry Reese fired, even remain a big time fan boy, and still admit that he's fucked this one thing up at least. Because when you're pretty much four years in from things going off the rails and they're this bleak, someone with the say he has pretty much has to have fucked up.
The Eagles pretty much got the absolute best case scenario for all their key seriously injured OL from a couple years (when Peters torn his Achilles, Kelce his ACL/MCL, etc). I don't wish anyone injury or shortened careers individually, but that type of positive outcome in general for that team sucks.
But they didn't take serious steps to start bringing in top quality replacements or building quality depth until it was obvious to everyone in the world that things were falling apart fast. And by then it was too late.
Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.
He played in 39 of 40 games at LSU, caught a pass in 37. Still waiting to see some links regarding Beckham and hamstring issues. I dont see how the Giants would be in much better shape with Martin as they did spend a 2nd round pick on an OL they seem very happy with already. Martin might be the better player over Richburg, but saying much better I think is a stretch, they are both rookies.
Right now they just haven't done enough to upgrade the line for Eli. This all seemed settled at the post-season press conference, but then they use their #1 draft choice on a wide receiver and their biggest free agent contract on a corner.
These won't help if Eli is being chased around the backfield launching wounded ducks off his rear foot.
In the middle rounds you hope to find guys who can be average starters or at replacement level players. These are the guys wwho fill up your roster and compliment your stars.
We had stars. But Jerry's boom/bust drafting style has cost us. Now we wonder if Eli is irreparably damaged.
Have a (gulp) top 5 pick. What say you Mr. duck or FSU stud. What's your preference? Let's play a few games first fellas.
I agree, the general feeling is that this offense could be historically bad. But I think under the circumstances (new offense, major turnover of personnel, no game planning, etc.) it is only fair to reserve expectations until seeing how they look in tonight's trial run.
The running game could be better this year. So far we have seen too much of JJ and MM. I'm done with those guys. I am not going to write Randle off yet because he did show some real potential last year, but if he can't get it done at least we have seen the kids Harris and Washington making plays late in games. Who knows, maybe they are the real deal. The OLine has been an experiment to this point. Decide on a configuration and run with it.
Is another move in the works? If I were Reese, I would be thinking very hard about it. When it comes to your roster you need to be decisive. If I were Mara and I saw another rotten egg tonight, you better believe Reese would be sitting in my office tomorrow and answering to --what are we going to do about it?
Part of the problem is that there were not that many legitimate hits and too many of the ones we did have left for FA. I was saying for years that I was concerned about the cap because it always seemed we were on a slim budget and Philly was loaded. I kept hearing all the doubters asking what has Philly won in response, but now here we are, after years of seeing as many starters leave or get hurt as we drafted and little by little the roster talent has evaporated. We keep having to invest in draft picks to replace young guys who have left. You want guys leaving when they are old, not when they are entering their prime!
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
Quote:
None. And 2009 was an F overall.
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
well said
Can't cherry pick games to make your point. He also played bad vs SF in the Championship game. But I agree he wasn't altogether bad, just too injury-prone.
Agree, the "I told you stuff on draft picks" when the NFL season hasn't even started is comical.
The 08-12 drafts were a mess in hindsight. That is what many posters have already said and its true. Hindsight is easy for us, but right/wrong, Reese is judged by it.
Most aren't ready to pull plug, but for a rookie WR to miss OTAs and all of training camp doesn't bode well to contribute much this season. There are always outliers but you know this is the norm.