I will say this...one thing I think they are hiding is the passing game to Jennings. I wouldn't be shocked if he is our #1 receiver (in terms of catches) this year. I think when the games count, he's going to catch a ton of passes.
Snee, Diehl, and Bass were all breaking down. But you left out Booth and Beatty. If both of them were their 2012 versions, healthy and on the roster, everything would look pretty good right now. The guys they drafted to replace Diehl ect are here and healthy(Pugh) Its not like they sat on their hands. I don't think any team could replace an entire o-line that quick. We've had a remarkable run but we might have to suffer a down year and half because of this.
And I think it will work out. Jennings health scares me a little but he is a good back if he's healthy.
The receivers don't worry me. Harris and Washington have both looked awesome really. If Beckum isn't healthy and redshirts I'd like to see one of these kids get a chance. Randle reminds me of Manningham from a couple years ago. Some guys it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on but he's already flashed enough for me to know he'll be somewhat productive. Again...if Eli has time.
The OL sucked in 2011. They won in spite of them largely.
It was extremely up and down, all over the place, in 2012.
It was beyond putrid in 2013.
Here we are in 2014 and the OL again looks like it's going to be a major problem, given the talent they're working with.
You can not want Jerry Reese fired, even remain a big time fan boy, and still admit that he's fucked this one thing up at least. Because when you're pretty much four years in from things going off the rails and they're this bleak, someone with the say he has pretty much has to have fucked up.
respective positions, right now (before the season unfolds).
The Eagles pretty much got the absolute best case scenario for all their key seriously injured OL from a couple years (when Peters torn his Achilles, Kelce his ACL/MCL, etc). I don't wish anyone injury or shortened careers individually, but that type of positive outcome in general for that team sucks.
The OL was showing early signs of weakness three or four seasons ago.
And I agree that they won in 2011 in spite of a weakening OL, not because of it.
But they didn't take serious steps to start bringing in top quality replacements or building quality depth until it was obvious to everyone in the world that things were falling apart fast. And by then it was too late.
if Beatty and Booth stayed at their 2012 versions and even improved a little(should have been expected) the line is roses right now. It is what it is and its not pretty. Beatty is the big concern and the depth at tackle sucks. Considering literally the whole season rests on that one point don't be surprised to see a move or two. He'll be scanning the wire when teams cut down to 53. He's done it before. A Shawn Andrews type. If not.. he'll likely trade a pick to bring in a guy. We can't flush the whole season down the drain because Charlie effing Brown didn't work out.
First Wilson career ends, now your #1 in 2014 has hamstring issues, which apparently he had in college as well.
Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.
He played in 39 of 40 games at LSU, caught a pass in 37. Still waiting to see some links regarding Beckham and hamstring issues. I dont see how the Giants would be in much better shape with Martin as they did spend a 2nd round pick on an OL they seem very happy with already. Martin might be the better player over Richburg, but saying much better I think is a stretch, they are both rookies.
Twice Reese has plucked aging veterans off the waiver wire
who had a couple of good years left and they made substantial contributions to the Super Bowl runs. Kawika Mitchell and Michael Boley. He could find a tackle certainly better than we have to hold the fort for a year or two.
Right now they just haven't done enough to upgrade the line for Eli. This all seemed settled at the post-season press conference, but then they use their #1 draft choice on a wide receiver and their biggest free agent contract on a corner.
These won't help if Eli is being chased around the backfield launching wounded ducks off his rear foot.
Jerry and TC have basically misfired on every mid round draft pick the last 4 years. When you look at why we haven't been to the playoffs that's exactly why.
In the middle rounds you hope to find guys who can be average starters or at replacement level players. These are the guys wwho fill up your roster and compliment your stars.
We had stars. But Jerry's boom/bust drafting style has cost us. Now we wonder if Eli is irreparably damaged.
Well if we are as bad as you all say and we follow EA
Strategy (ie when u can get a franchise QB u take him). We should
Have a (gulp) top 5 pick. What say you Mr. duck or FSU stud. What's your preference? Let's play a few games first fellas.
to the predicted score, then an 0-16 season is on the cards. This is the Jets, I didn't realize they were a Super Bowl potential team until Tuesday of this week. I hope the big bad Jets don't run it up
I'm glad I was travelling and missed the Colts game. This is the
Jets annual Super Bowl. It always means more to them, but the Giants have got to show that they can at least be competent on offense. Randle especially has to show SOMETHING. I agree with Eric that I thought he was a great value where they drafted him, but this is his 3rd year and its time to show that he can at least be a solid contributor.
At least not how the team looks overall -I usually only care about individual performances. But today I have to admit I will be tuned in, especially to the offense.
I agree, the general feeling is that this offense could be historically bad. But I think under the circumstances (new offense, major turnover of personnel, no game planning, etc.) it is only fair to reserve expectations until seeing how they look in tonight's trial run.
The running game could be better this year. So far we have seen too much of JJ and MM. I'm done with those guys. I am not going to write Randle off yet because he did show some real potential last year, but if he can't get it done at least we have seen the kids Harris and Washington making plays late in games. Who knows, maybe they are the real deal. The OLine has been an experiment to this point. Decide on a configuration and run with it.
Is another move in the works? If I were Reese, I would be thinking very hard about it. When it comes to your roster you need to be decisive. If I were Mara and I saw another rotten egg tonight, you better believe Reese would be sitting in my office tomorrow and answering to --what are we going to do about it?
Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!
RE: Why are some pointing to the drafts in 08 to 12???
Look at the drafts prior, they look very similar. What am I missing? I look at 08 to 12 and see at least 3 starters from each draft. Some guys have gotten injured, can that really be the front office's fault? Heck, if we're judging on that, the '07 draft is kind of a bust also, most of those guys are out of the league. If we drafted SO BAD in 08, 09, 10, and 11, how in the hell did we win a Super Bowl in 2011??? Some of you guys are WAY over the top. If the Giant's get it going as the year progresses, don't jump on the bandwagon. We've heard the doom and gloom before in the middle of 07 and 11. The doom and gloomers were PROVEN WRONG. Here we go again!
Part of the problem is that there were not that many legitimate hits and too many of the ones we did have left for FA. I was saying for years that I was concerned about the cap because it always seemed we were on a slim budget and Philly was loaded. I kept hearing all the doubters asking what has Philly won in response, but now here we are, after years of seeing as many starters leave or get hurt as we drafted and little by little the roster talent has evaporated. We keep having to invest in draft picks to replace young guys who have left. You want guys leaving when they are old, not when they are entering their prime!
Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C"
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
RE: RE: Show me a single draft from '08 to '12 that we grade better than a 'C
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
this is the week that the Giants offense begins to show it hasn't been sleeping all training camp. Nothing fantastic but glimpses of what is to come. Giants win a tightly-contested game and Giant's fans everywhere breathe a sigh of relief. Progress will be made on a week-to-week basis. We will need to win early games with a strong running game and good defense.
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.
the Baas signing but forget the fact that he was the starting center for the Super Bowl team and played pretty well for us down the stretch - especially in the Packers game where we dominated the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying the signing was a complete success - but by no means was it bad.
Can't cherry pick games to make your point. He also played bad vs SF in the Championship game. But I agree he wasn't altogether bad, just too injury-prone.
taking Beckham #12 overall - it seems like the ONLY player that everyone else wanted was Martin. Martin's leg could snap tomorrow - who knows. We took Richburg in the 2nd, who can play both guard positions and center - and may end up being a better pro than Martin. Nobody can say right now whether Martin will be a pro bowl quality player. Beckham can come back from his hammy troubles and light up the league. Everyone needs to calm down about this Martin vs Beckham nonsense - they have yet to play a real NFL game.
Agree, the "I told you stuff on draft picks" when the NFL season hasn't even started is comical.
the drafts - yes, Reese made some serious miscalculations the past 4 seasons, but I like what I'm seeing from Pugh, Hankins, and Moore. Reese can't go back in time and save Phillip's knee, Thomas' knee, or Wilson's neck. Get over it.
The 08-12 drafts were a mess in hindsight. That is what many posters have already said and its true. Hindsight is easy for us, but right/wrong, Reese is judged by it.
before my tangent is over. The Giants took Beckham with the #12 overall pick in the entire draft - those on BBI saying he's not going to contribute at all this season..that is just mind boggling to me. Who was the next highest skill player the Giants have taken recently? Shockey? He is the most athletic and fastest receiver/playmaker the Giants have had in quite some time - and by all accounts is one of the most polished receivers coming out. They drafted him to be a #1 receiver. He's had a hammy issue in camp and everyone is ready to pull the plug on this guy. Unbelievable.
Most aren't ready to pull plug, but for a rookie WR to miss OTAs and all of training camp doesn't bode well to contribute much this season. There are always outliers but you know this is the norm.
The receivers don't worry me. Harris and Washington have both looked awesome really. If Beckum isn't healthy and redshirts I'd like to see one of these kids get a chance. Randle reminds me of Manningham from a couple years ago. Some guys it just takes longer for the light bulb to go on but he's already flashed enough for me to know he'll be somewhat productive. Again...if Eli has time.
It was beyond putrid in 2013.
Here we are in 2014 and the OL again looks like it's going to be a major problem, given the talent they're working with.
You can not want Jerry Reese fired, even remain a big time fan boy, and still admit that he's fucked this one thing up at least. Because when you're pretty much four years in from things going off the rails and they're this bleak, someone with the say he has pretty much has to have fucked up.
The Eagles pretty much got the absolute best case scenario for all their key seriously injured OL from a couple years (when Peters torn his Achilles, Kelce his ACL/MCL, etc). I don't wish anyone injury or shortened careers individually, but that type of positive outcome in general for that team sucks.
But they didn't take serious steps to start bringing in top quality replacements or building quality depth until it was obvious to everyone in the world that things were falling apart fast. And by then it was too late.
Not to bring it up again, but we'd be in much better shape on the OL if we had drafted Martin.
He played in 39 of 40 games at LSU, caught a pass in 37. Still waiting to see some links regarding Beckham and hamstring issues. I dont see how the Giants would be in much better shape with Martin as they did spend a 2nd round pick on an OL they seem very happy with already. Martin might be the better player over Richburg, but saying much better I think is a stretch, they are both rookies.
Right now they just haven't done enough to upgrade the line for Eli. This all seemed settled at the post-season press conference, but then they use their #1 draft choice on a wide receiver and their biggest free agent contract on a corner.
These won't help if Eli is being chased around the backfield launching wounded ducks off his rear foot.
In the middle rounds you hope to find guys who can be average starters or at replacement level players. These are the guys wwho fill up your roster and compliment your stars.
We had stars. But Jerry's boom/bust drafting style has cost us. Now we wonder if Eli is irreparably damaged.
Have a (gulp) top 5 pick. What say you Mr. duck or FSU stud. What's your preference? Let's play a few games first fellas.
I agree, the general feeling is that this offense could be historically bad. But I think under the circumstances (new offense, major turnover of personnel, no game planning, etc.) it is only fair to reserve expectations until seeing how they look in tonight's trial run.
The running game could be better this year. So far we have seen too much of JJ and MM. I'm done with those guys. I am not going to write Randle off yet because he did show some real potential last year, but if he can't get it done at least we have seen the kids Harris and Washington making plays late in games. Who knows, maybe they are the real deal. The OLine has been an experiment to this point. Decide on a configuration and run with it.
Is another move in the works? If I were Reese, I would be thinking very hard about it. When it comes to your roster you need to be decisive. If I were Mara and I saw another rotten egg tonight, you better believe Reese would be sitting in my office tomorrow and answering to --what are we going to do about it?
Part of the problem is that there were not that many legitimate hits and too many of the ones we did have left for FA. I was saying for years that I was concerned about the cap because it always seemed we were on a slim budget and Philly was loaded. I kept hearing all the doubters asking what has Philly won in response, but now here we are, after years of seeing as many starters leave or get hurt as we drafted and little by little the roster talent has evaporated. We keep having to invest in draft picks to replace young guys who have left. You want guys leaving when they are old, not when they are entering their prime!
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
Quote:
None. And 2009 was an F overall.
2013 looks promising though the injury to Cooper Taylor hurts. 2012 isn't looking like anything more than a D right now. I mean Reese just hasn't drafted well and no one can argue with that.
Yes, injuries are bad luck but overall we have missed on so many picks it is just downright ugly. DT Austin, LB Sintim, WR Jernigan, etc.
A 'C' is being generous. Look at the total amount of even average starters we got out of those 5 drafts. It's appalling. For all the shit Coughlin and Gilbride get, it's Reese that has built this team. Reese brought in FAs like Meyers at TE and Baas at Center. Where this team is failing is at personnel and that's on Reese.
well said
Can't cherry pick games to make your point. He also played bad vs SF in the Championship game. But I agree he wasn't altogether bad, just too injury-prone.
Agree, the "I told you stuff on draft picks" when the NFL season hasn't even started is comical.
The 08-12 drafts were a mess in hindsight. That is what many posters have already said and its true. Hindsight is easy for us, but right/wrong, Reese is judged by it.
Most aren't ready to pull plug, but for a rookie WR to miss OTAs and all of training camp doesn't bode well to contribute much this season. There are always outliers but you know this is the norm.