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Eli is Done?

Giant_Spirit : 8/21/2014 8:44 pm
Is that what I am hearing now on this God forsaken site... the site I once loved, dear to my heart? Have we all become that obtuse, have we become GIANTS.COM??

2013 Eli Manning
No Offensive Line
No Run Game
Sub Par WR unit

2014 (PRE SEASON)
New OFFENSE playbook and philosophy (Important here)
New Offensive Line
New Running back unit
Still a Sub Par WR unit


So on August 20th we are calling it a fail for this season...
That's because  
BlackLight : 8/21/2014 8:47 pm : link
the NEW offensive line isn't giving him any better protection than he had last year. Notwithstanding that, there's the very worrisome prospect that Eli is playing gun-shy. And he's trying to learn a new offense, when the old offensive scheme wasn't really the problem.
Very few people on this site believe he's completely "finished"  
arcarsenal : 8/21/2014 8:48 pm : link
Most are simply concerned because he hasn't played all that well since mid-2012.

But feel free to overreact more than the people you're accusing of doing just that.
The o-line play  
Ben in Tampa : 8/21/2014 8:55 pm : link
might finish him
bash him, trash him,  
Dankbeerman : 8/21/2014 8:56 pm : link
Say he is hurt, call him a bum. He has continued to overcome all. Least of our worries. He has done the impossible and is money when it counts.
it's depressing reading  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/21/2014 8:58 pm : link
this site's thoughts on Eli. This is the lowest Eli's "perception" has been on BBI since I've been here.

And it's not like I completely disagree with the doubters. I totally see where they're coming from and I see some alarming trends myself. But it's just such a kick to the nuts to come onto this site and see how down everyone is about this team.

The NFC East has always been a toss-up division and I'm hoping Eli can get it rolling as the season goes on. But right now, I just expect another down offensive season but with less turnovers and more pathetic dink-dunk drives.
That's  
Jerry from Maine : 8/21/2014 9:17 pm : link
because we have a whole bunch of unemployed GM's here on BBI
Huge  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2014 9:21 pm : link
Eli fan since day one but "least of our worries" is ridiculous.
Eli is the Captain of this Ship  
Jeffrey : 8/21/2014 9:35 pm : link
I wonder how old Eli will have to be and how much more erratic his play until it is fair to worry that he is now a big part of the problem. Really unfortunate to see the line take all the blame, though much is deserved. Truthfully, Eli is a warrior but that should not deflect all the concern. No matter how courageous or determined, balls into the feet, behind the receiver and too high are a basis for concern.
This is the first time  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2014 9:42 pm : link
I've considered the possibility, but I can't believe this is it for him. Not at age 33.
Eli  
seanr : 8/21/2014 9:47 pm : link
Never seems to bring out reasonable opinions. He is neither a HOF QB or a bum, however he really needs to play better or we are screwed.
RE: This is the first time  
Del Shofner : 8/21/2014 9:47 pm : link
In comment 11818615 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I've considered the possibility, but I can't believe this is it for him. Not at age 33.


yes, I think this is the first time any of us have considered the possibility.

Hopefully Eli will prove the doubters wrong. It doesn't help that other aspects of the offense are in transition to WCO/chaos/Reese can't draft.
Holy Drama Queen!  
River Mike : 8/21/2014 9:47 pm : link
Eli and the rest of the offense has sucked so far, and we are discussing it on a fan discussion board. There is, as there should be, a diversity of opinion, everything from "nothing to worry about", to "wonder if he's done". Some people just take any difference of opinion as an affront and need to rant about what's wrong with everyone else. Chill for Gods sake.
Eli  
seanr : 8/21/2014 9:47 pm : link
Never seems to bring out reasonable opinions. He is neither a HOF QB or a bum, however he really needs to play better or we are screwed.
It's possible he can't win with this team,  
oldutican : 8/21/2014 9:52 pm : link
but could be very productive in another situation. Bottom liner is Eli isn't good enough to make up for team's overall deficiencies, mostly because he is a pocket passer with no mobility.
worse than that  
SBlue46 : 8/21/2014 9:55 pm : link
People are missing gilbride... still dont why pope gets
fired for jr....
e.m. and this new offense just might not be a good fit.....  
thrunthrublue : 8/21/2014 10:06 pm : link
a ferrari is a great car, but they don't race them off road with success. aaron rogers runs the same "packer" style offense, but he has mobility, and throws quick tight accurate spirals. many times eli's passes look like he's auditioning for "duck dynasty". after last year's onslaught of "look out!" blocks, he's tentative and addicted to throwing off his back foot while turning his head in anticipation of the impending collision....meanwhile.... t.c. gawks at the wobbly ducks from the sidelines, hands on hips and he might be witnessing his own swan song.....
It happens to everybody at some point.  
Enoch : 8/21/2014 10:08 pm : link
It seems early for E, but given his performances it's fair to ask the question.
We will get to see where Eli is tomorrow agaisn tthe Jets defense,  
redthumper32 : 8/21/2014 10:14 pm : link
which is pretty good. If the Jints oline doesn't look above average against the Jets then it will be a very long and disappointing season.
I don't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:30 pm : link
think it is so much people saying "Eli is done" as it is the realization that this "could" be a possibility.

It's not inconceivable. It's happened to other excellent QBs.

It's too early to tell.

But Eli hasn't played well for a long time now.
We won't know what Eli is  
Hammer : 8/21/2014 10:35 pm : link
until this season is over.

It could very well take the better part of this year for Manning to wrap his head around the new offense and, even more importantly, for the offensive line to jell.

Its much to early to tell. I expect a bumpy road to start off the season.
I  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2014 10:36 pm : link
will say this, and I'm still an Eli believer... if he stinks this year I'm looking to move on.
someone needs to ask him if he is elite  
shabu : 8/21/2014 10:37 pm : link
Someone needs to ask him if he is an elite QB ... then we can enjoy 2011 x2
looking at the OL  
ANGPASS : 8/21/2014 10:53 pm : link
of philly and cinci for example, They are a BRICK WALL. dalton and foles look great back there. they look so comfortable. our line sucks and is obviously rebuilding. eli looks scared for his life back there. he has no time in the pocket with out feeling a rush. and it is the same problem. the rush come right up the middle, in his face. I don't think eli is done, but the team looks to be going backwards. If we can't pass against the jets shitty DBs, we are DEAD. and this week, they are game planning, so they better be productive.
I don't  
Arcanum : 8/21/2014 11:08 pm : link
Think Eli is done. When giving time in the pocket, he does deliver. Eli's mechanics can be corrected. He just has to regain that confidence in the o'line again. To me, up front, is where it begins. And right now, we might have the worse o'line in the league.
Eli so far  
Marty866b : 8/21/2014 11:09 pm : link
Has not given any Giant fan reason to be optimistic. More concerning to me is the number of interceptions thrown at practice with no pass rush or fear of getting hit.
Dear Tom Coughlin & Giants Management:  
81_Great_Dane : 8/21/2014 11:11 pm : link
Eli was a mistake, but you can put that mistake behind you anytime. We encourage you to release him and move on.

Your Friends,

Kurt Warner
Curtis Painter
Ryan Nassib's mom
If you're thinking Eli being done is a possibility  
vince : 8/22/2014 12:45 am : link
Then there's always the possibility that he could have a sex change. or you could be right or be wrong.

Or you're so used to seeing him perform miracles that anything less than that for any reason means he's lost it.

God, how could you make such pigheaded, tunnel visioned bodies Giant fans?
What were you thinking, God?

It's bad enough the OL line isn't working yet. The new hires are still tryingto figure out the new scheme.

Eli is not taking the hits because it hurt just as much in a preseason game as in a regular game.

Obviously the present giant fans and I definitely include Eric the administrator are giving up on the season before the game is played. No, they aren't giving up they're just not sure BASED ON THE PRESEASON RESULTS that Eli isn' there . AND JUST HOW WELL HAS CRUZ PERFORMED????

DAMMIT if you're going top pick on the failures then do it for the WHOLE OFFENSE. Don't just select one most apparent person and build the upside down pyramid of fault on is head.

For Pete's sake don't backtrack and say, "I meant it as a possibility" That's bullshit. If you think it then say it and I'll know you're a fair weather fan, disguises or not.

It's always a possibilty, EVERYTHING IS A POSSIBILITY!

As a fan you have every right to Criticize the team. On the other hand as a fan, I have every right to point out that your support of the team SUCKS!!

You tell me if I don't like it don't read the comments

I tell you that if you don't like my comments, don't read'em.

Snively bastids!!!!!










RE: If you're thinking Eli being done is a possibility  
SoDev : 8/22/2014 4:22 am : link
In comment 11818712 vince said:
Quote:
What were you thinking, God?


Haha, vince just killed it. So refreshing. I agree vince. I know a lot of these same people couldn't even hold on to any hope as a fans in the middle of our 2011 run. It's the same mentality.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 8/22/2014 6:38 am : link
I've always been a big Eli guy & I think that this talk of him being 'done' is ridiculous. As for the 'Well, it's happened to other guys', yeah I'm not going to dispute that. But people also thought Elway was done in the early 90s so it cuts both ways.

I think it's pretty obvious that Eli suffered some type of injury midway through the '12 season because if people remember, he was playing lights out to begin that season. As for last season, uh, our OL was an absolute abomination. Do people have amnesia about how historically awful that line was? Don't quote me, but I think Eli was sacked five times in the first 7 or 8 minutes of that Panthers game. You also had the diva WR doing God knows what, a joke of a TE, and a running back group so strong that Peyton Freaking Hillis came in mid-season and was the best option.

Regarding this preseason, it's preseason. Am I concerned? Yeah, but I'm concerned about the whole offense, not just Eli. It was going to take time. A lot of these lineman are playing with each other for the first time & it's going to take time for them to gel & get on the same page. Eli hasn't looked that sharp, but the OL is a work in progress, Randle is MIA, & the TE position is still a joke. At least the RBs look better.

I hear people say that Eli carried this team @ points before & that's absolutely true. But what if the talent around him is so bad that he can't? Is that all of a sudden his fault?

I guess time will tell regarding Eli, but some of the stuff being thrown around here about his is lunacy. Wait until 2025 or so when we got that year's version of Geno Smith & you'll be longing for the good 'ol days of Eli.
this is an excellent article on Eli  
Peter from CT : 8/22/2014 8:07 am : link
not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies.
Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )
Wow ...  
Beer Man : 8/22/2014 8:10 am : link
and the Giants haven't even played their first game yet
RE: this is an excellent article on Eli  
BurberryManning : 8/22/2014 8:45 am : link
In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:
Quote:
not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )


Great article, however one based upon thorough analysis deeper than that of the arm-chair QB's "eyeball test." How dare anyone suggest that Eli Manning shouldn't be expected to throw no more than 10 interceptions regardless of the the throws he's expected to make, the pressure in his face, or the shortcomings of his receivers (SARCASM).

The perception of Eli has become one a bit of a football IQ test for NY sports fans. I can excuse the ignorance of fans across the country that may not be able to watch every Giants game but if you're a NY sports fan and genuinely think that Eli has been a responsible part of the Giants' problem....

I just cannot help but become perturbed when folks say, "the line was dreadful, he had no running game, and the receivers were directly responsible for a ton of mistakes but still...Eli played poorly." Well, how the heck can you fairly evaluate a pocket-passing quarterback in the sort of environment where nearly every single input effecting his performance goes to hell?
RE: this is an excellent article on Eli  
Victor in CT : 8/22/2014 8:47 am : link
In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:
Quote:
not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )


Good piece Peter thanks. I think one of the big things that cost KG his job is that he refused to adjust when it was obvious that the OL just could not hold on long enough to allow Eli to throw it downfield effectively. With no running game to speak of it became tee off time for opposing pass rushers. It all begins and ends with the OL, and as we have all written numerous times, Reese has failed miserably to replace the great OL from 2006-2010 as they aged.
RE: RE: this is an excellent article on Eli  
Big Blue '56 : 8/22/2014 8:49 am : link
In comment 11818844 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:


Quote:


not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )



Great article, however one based upon thorough analysis deeper than that of the arm-chair QB's "eyeball test." How dare anyone suggest that Eli Manning shouldn't be expected to throw no more than 10 interceptions regardless of the the throws he's expected to make, the pressure in his face, or the shortcomings of his receivers (SARCASM).

The perception of Eli has become one a bit of a football IQ test for NY sports fans. I can excuse the ignorance of fans across the country that may not be able to watch every Giants game but if you're a NY sports fan and genuinely think that Eli has been a responsible part of the Giants' problem....

I just cannot help but become perturbed when folks say, "the line was dreadful, he had no running game, and the receivers were directly responsible for a ton of mistakes but still...Eli played poorly." Well, how the heck can you fairly evaluate a pocket-passing quarterback in the sort of environment where nearly every single input effecting his performance goes to hell?


This
RE: RE: this is an excellent article on Eli  
Big Blue '56 : 8/22/2014 8:49 am : link
In comment 11818850 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:


Quote:


not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )



Good piece Peter thanks. I think one of the big things that cost KG his job is that he refused to adjust when it was obvious that the OL just could not hold on long enough to allow Eli to throw it downfield effectively. With no running game to speak of it became tee off time for opposing pass rushers. It all begins and ends with the OL, and as we have all written numerous times, Reese has failed miserably to replace the great OL from 2006-2010 as they aged.


This too..
...  
yankees78 : 8/22/2014 8:53 am : link
Eli is not done.
Brett's hug curse is just a minor blip for Eli
The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 8:56 am : link
Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.
He's not done, IMO  
bc4life : 8/22/2014 8:56 am : link
But fat lady has to be at least warming up. Guys, Eli will be 34 in January - in NFL years that is very old.

The OLine, the wr-qb communication issues, etc. yeah I get it. Those issues have made him look way worse than he is. Last year the Oline was horrendous and it was aging the year before that. And, the year before that - well, he won a SB.

But, a human being can only play so long in this league.
RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
BurberryManning : 8/22/2014 9:04 am : link
In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.


Good points, Arc. While I'm quick to defend Eli's recent performance I wont argue that A) a more mobile QB would help to mitigate the effects of a brutal surrounding cast B) the accumulated hits and mistrust in receivers could certainly, and may have, creeped into Eli's head which could detract from his play going forward. These points dont invalidate my thesis, that contributing factors never gave Eli the chance to succeed in 2012/2013, but do present concerns going forward.

I would doubt that many would disagree that Kurt Warner was one of the best quarterbacks ever but at some point it was obvious that he was shell-shocked, prior to a revival in the desert. I dont think that we've come close to that point with regards to Eli but its surely a concern.
This season will determine  
sackpack : 8/22/2014 9:53 am : link
whether or not it is time for Reese to go.
Eli...  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 9:54 am : link
has not changed at all IMO. He's the same QB he's always been it's just that we've seen the same Eli we saw his first couple of years in 12/13 because he's had a severly deteriorating and sometimes absolutely putrid supporting cast for the most part and that's now combined with learning a new offense, etc....just as he had to do in his "formative" years. This is Eli folks...we've known him for 10 years now. I have absolutely zero concerns about his mental state...none....why? Because he's quite possibly the most clutch minded, mentally strong QB that has ever played the game and I've seen what he can do with some decent pieces in place. Eli is just being Eli, if his skills were diminishing, there would be more obvious concern coming from TC as he's not one to hide those feelings even if he does have a history of being loyal to vets and has not once indicated a concern about Eli's QB abilities (I'm not talking about "he had a down year" type talk either, I'm speaking of genuine concern about his skillset).
RE: RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 9:57 am : link
In comment 11818875 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.



Good points, Arc. While I'm quick to defend Eli's recent performance I wont argue that A) a more mobile QB would help to mitigate the effects of a brutal surrounding cast B) the accumulated hits and mistrust in receivers could certainly, and may have, creeped into Eli's head which could detract from his play going forward. These points dont invalidate my thesis, that contributing factors never gave Eli the chance to succeed in 2012/2013, but do present concerns going forward.

I would doubt that many would disagree that Kurt Warner was one of the best quarterbacks ever but at some point it was obvious that he was shell-shocked, prior to a revival in the desert. I dont think that we've come close to that point with regards to Eli but its surely a concern.


Burb, I definitely think with adequate protection, Eli can still be an above average QB. What worries me is that I don't think he'll get it from this current OL and I fear that another 2013-like year for him will really propel him to the end of his career in rapid fashion.
Offense  
Dragon : 8/22/2014 10:10 am : link
Eli is he finished, gun shy or something else we all don't know. Is this an age thing or decline in physical ability along with a new offense system remains to be seen. What we do know is that he has not looked good in practice or preseason games. Eli is slow and deliberate with no movement skills and maybe some arm strength loss it appears. The other thing we know is that management is also not sure what they have in Eli that's why there has been no talk about a contract extension at all.

The OL is just like Eli in many ways they are learning and replacing many parts as the days go by. Why this guy or that guy has not been placed here or there due to injury or rehab along with prior position played is also a factor. I for one am not concerned about the OL if they can't run or pass block this has yet to be proven. No team has all pros or #1 picks at every OL position they will improve as time goes by. Today if you ask them to give Eli 6-8 seconds they will fail 80% of the time if not more. We all want to protect Eli then the first step is not to ask the OL to do something they can't do.

The starting WR's or RB have still not yet been consistently productive with Eli in the game. Cruz, Randle and JJ are very average at this point for starters. However the other two QB's have shown the ability to produce with 2nd and 3rd teamers on the field. Yes you can say they are subs but they are moving the chains something Eli has not been able to do.

As for the TE's I still don't understand how Robinson just fell from the top spot to the outhouse that quickly. If he looked as good as reported why is he not even 2nd or 3rd string after his OTA's and from all reports no injury. The separation he got on both passes is the best we have all seen from any of our pass receiving sections. Do we have a starter on the team it would seem like we don't yet which is a problem. None of these guys seem to be able block or catch well enough to claim the starting spot.

It's preseason we still don't know much about this offense and should we be concerned for sure. Will we really see a WCO with TC and Eli is also a big question. You will know when things are really bad if Eli starts calling out Omaha Omaha Lol. I'm not going to say we will win 4 or 12 games this season is a test for the offense and us Giants fans.
Eli  
irishmacmystic : 8/22/2014 10:16 am : link
If you look at our OL, we have done virtually a complete make over due to the disaster that was last year. Beatty is the only OL who has significant playing time with the Giants, and of course he is coming back from an injury and a bad year. On top of that, we are installing a new offense (with a talented OC who has never been an OC before), and one of our main offensive talents (Beckham) has yet to play a snap. We really have no TE, but we all desperately hope one of the TE's on the roster will emerge to give us some semblance of a threat from that position. We also have two new running backs, and though they will fortify that position going forward, they are new too. Until the OL is in place, and has some continuity, it is very difficult to judge where we are with Eli. I don't give up on any year, but if this turns out to be a year of development, so be it. In that event, I look to the offseason to fill in the remaining holes and to win a Super Bowl in the 2015-16 season. Eli is not done, he will win one more Super Bowl. I don't know what the odds are on that, or against that, but my money is all in.
RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
JCin332 : 8/22/2014 10:28 am : link
In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.


I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently..

I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..
RE: RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 10:34 am : link
In comment 11819012 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.



I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently..

I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..


See: Luck, Andrew.. Rodgers, Aaron.. Roethlisberger, Ben

All of them were good last year (Rodgers missed 7 games) despite poor OL play in front of them. Much better than Eli was.
Luck's line was pretty crappy last Saturday night as well  
Mason : 8/22/2014 10:40 am : link
Giants got a lot of pressure on him but no sacks. His mobility for his size is amazing.
Great Article and it instills patience to wait and see what  
#10* : 8/22/2014 10:48 am : link
he can do in this system. I was never a fan of Gilbrides system and thought it was holding Manning back from being the kind of player he was in college.

That said, I don't feel like he's been the same player since his house was flooded. But that could just be coincidence. I think he'll turn it around this season in a big way.
Apples to Oranges....  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 10:48 am : link
you can't compare different QB's in different systems with different players/coaches and different skillsets...if you want to do a complete, detailed analysis of this, fine...but to suggest that this guy did it so why can't our guy do it is very shaky IMO. It just comes off as you preferring those QB's to Eli, which is fine but call it what it is.
RE: Apples to Oranges....  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 10:56 am : link
In comment 11819060 Wonderphil11 said:
Quote:
you can't compare different QB's in different systems with different players/coaches and different skillsets...if you want to do a complete, detailed analysis of this, fine...but to suggest that this guy did it so why can't our guy do it is very shaky IMO. It just comes off as you preferring those QB's to Eli, which is fine but call it what it is.


You don't have to go into a detailed analysis. There are just QB's who are better at negating some bad OL play than Eli is. It doesn't mean I think Eli sucks or can't be good. But it's the truth. The guys I listed are more mobile and able to extend plays when their protections break down. Eli really doesn't have that ability. All you had to do was watch the preseason game last week. Our defense closed in on Luck multiple times and he got away and still made a play. When their guys closed in on Eli he either got picked off or went down for a sack.

Like I said, with good pass pro, I still think Eli can be an above average QB. He throws the deep ball as well as anyone in this league. I am just not confident he will get that protection this year.
I'm more worried about JPP being done than Eli  
Gman11 : 8/22/2014 10:59 am : link
.
So you're...  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 11:06 am : link
saying bad Oline play is the sole reason for 2013 and the shaky preseason? I get that mobility helps with bad protection along with a quick release and maybe one of those guys would have eked out a game or two that Eli didn't or looked a bit better in this system due to those qualities...but, I don't see this as proof that anyone should be concerned with Eli possibly being done or close to it. I just think there are way too many variables.
RE: RE: RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
JCin332 : 8/22/2014 11:27 am : link
In comment 11819018 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11819012 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.



I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently..

I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..



See: Luck, Andrew.. Rodgers, Aaron.. Roethlisberger, Ben

All of them were good last year (Rodgers missed 7 games) despite poor OL play in front of them. Much better than Eli was.


In 2013:

Green Bay Packers were 7th in rushing in NFL avg 133.5yds/game 4.7 yds/carry

Indianapolis Colts were 21st in rushing 108.9 yds/game 4.3 yds/carry

Pittsburgh Steelers were 27th (86.4) and Giants 29th(83.3) so I will give you that one although Steelers avged 4/yds carry vs Giants 3.5..

All in all the Giants had one of the bottom 3 OL's in the NFL last year..

And all QB's need good OL's..
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:29 am : link
What I am saying is that I don't think Eli can survive bad OL play. Much like last year. It's not that I think Eli is done but I just don't feel he's handling pressure quite as well as he used to even if he was never a mobile guy. He's bailing on plays too soon, forcing throws and winding up sacked far too often. I just don't see how this offense will be able to move the ball if the pass pro isn't much better than it's been.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The difference is that there are QB's who can survive poor OL's  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:31 am : link
In comment 11819140 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 11819018 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 11819012 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.



I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently..

I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..



See: Luck, Andrew.. Rodgers, Aaron.. Roethlisberger, Ben

All of them were good last year (Rodgers missed 7 games) despite poor OL play in front of them. Much better than Eli was.



In 2013:

Green Bay Packers were 7th in rushing in NFL avg 133.5yds/game 4.7 yds/carry

Indianapolis Colts were 21st in rushing 108.9 yds/game 4.3 yds/carry

Pittsburgh Steelers were 27th (86.4) and Giants 29th(83.3) so I will give you that one although Steelers avged 4/yds carry vs Giants 3.5..

All in all the Giants had one of the bottom 3 OL's in the NFL last year..

And all QB's need good OL's..


Run blocking and pass protection are not equal.

The 2011 Giants would be a perfect example of it. We were a terrible rushing team but the pass protection was nowhere near as bad as the run blocking was. Eli did get decent pockets.
Eli had a pocket because our interior was better than it was  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 11:33 am : link
In 2011. That line was still fucking terrible in pass protection, though.
RE: That's because  
dguy901 : 8/22/2014 11:41 am : link
In comment 11818561 BlackLight said:
Quote:
the NEW offensive line isn't giving him any better protection than he had last year. Notwithstanding that, there's the very worrisome prospect that Eli is playing gun-shy. And he's trying to learn a new offense, when the old offensive scheme wasn't really the problem.

What? It is still preseason, the blocking schemes are not necessarily the same and throw in the number of new players. Eli is a bit gun-shy, as most QB's hit that many times would be, until his protection proves itself. And please tell me what your point is regarding the new system other than it is expected to require some time to master? Where are you coming from when you say that KG's offensive game plans weren't a problem? How can anyone even think they have a clue as to what Eli will or won't do this year. If he truly still wants to win and continue playing football, watch out! This is his final year under contract. I would not even dare to bet against him if he plans on playing football beyond this year. Key points, he has never missed a regular season or playoff game due to injury, he found a way to win (2) SB's we were the underdog in, he still has a strong arm and he is still clutch. If I played behind last years OL, not only would I have done so much worse than Eli, I would have been dead by mid-season!
Eli was one of the most pressured QBs in the NFL in 2011.  
Riggies : 8/22/2014 11:43 am : link
Guys like Greg Cosell were using his performance to support their suggestions about the "real" value of OL positions, given how well he was playing in spite of what the Giants were trotting out there.

It's revisionist and actually insulting to what Eli (and the top three WRs, for that matter) accomplished then to now claim the OL wasn't largely shit that year in pass blocking. The OL never really being fixed from then to now may have eventually taken a cumulative toll on him and left his recovery currently questionable, but that doesn't change what actually was then, in that time frame.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:48 am : link
His pass protection in 2011 was certainly better than it was in 2013. And if it wasn't, than my assumption that his pocket presence has taken a dive must hold true because one year he was great behind a bad OL and now he looks terrible.

My main point was; you can't necessarily assume that because a unit was poor in run blocking that they were equally poor in pass blocking.

And I didn't think just the interior was better in 2011. Wasn't Beatty's best year 2011? Or am I confusing that with 2012.
RE: Eli had a pocket because our interior was better than it was  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 11:49 am : link
In comment 11819158 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In 2011. That line was still fucking terrible in pass protection, though.


*better in 2011 than 2013.
Eli is the same  
LT56 : 8/22/2014 11:49 am : link
He's never been as great as some think and conversely, never as bad as some think. With only a few exceptions, all QB's are the subject of negativity by their fans.
RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 11:50 am : link
In comment 11819200 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
His pass protection in 2011 was certainly better than it was in 2013. And if it wasn't, than my assumption that his pocket presence has taken a dive must hold true because one year he was great behind a bad OL and now he looks terrible.

My main point was; you can't necessarily assume that because a unit was poor in run blocking that they were equally poor in pass blocking.

And I didn't think just the interior was better in 2011. Wasn't Beatty's best year 2011? Or am I confusing that with 2012.


They were really poor in pass protection. Beatty only played ten games and then had a detached retina.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:53 am : link
Just as bad as last year? I don't know.

But assuming the 2011 line was equally bad at pass protecting as the 2013 line, wouldn't that mean that Eli is the variable in performance? Why did he look so awful last year and so incredible in 2013?

Shellshocked? Gun shy? Hurt? Old?

I don't know how people can say he just looks like the same guy. I don't think he does.
What I'm saying....  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 11:53 am : link
is that it isn't soley Eli not handling pressure the way he used to...it's no running game, no WR's, converting knowledge of a new system onto the field, integrating new players, etc, etc. My point is that all of these things came into play over the last couple of years and they are all reasons for Eli looking "off" or not handling pressure as he used to. I'm not exonerating Eli by any means but I think some have tunnel vision on this.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:53 am : link
So incredible in 2011*
Preseason  
LT56 : 8/22/2014 11:54 am : link
means nothing- save the Eli judgements until we get through at least 4 games in the regular season.
RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 11:54 am : link
In comment 11819211 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Just as bad as last year? I don't know.

But assuming the 2011 line was equally bad at pass protecting as the 2013 line, wouldn't that mean that Eli is the variable in performance? Why did he look so awful last year and so incredible in 2013?

Shellshocked? Gun shy? Hurt? Old?

I don't know how people can say he just looks like the same guy. I don't think he does.


No, I think it was worse in 2013, but it was awful in 2011 too.
Beatty was mediocre until he got injured and they moved Diehl's  
Riggies : 8/22/2014 11:55 am : link
turnstile act back to LT from LG in 2011. Mediocre, of course, probably made him the Giants' best OL to the time of his injury (Boothe at LG ended up grading out, ultimately, by the team itself the best by the end).

2012 was when he actually put up a solid, above average full year for the first (and hopefully not only) time and then was rewarded for it contractually.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 11:58 am : link
Ok, so I had Beatty's 2011 and 2012 reversed.

In any event. Even if Eli were to get the same level of protection in 2014 that he got in 2011, something tells me his numbers wouldn't reflect it at all.
RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 12:01 pm : link
In comment 11819231 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ok, so I had Beatty's 2011 and 2012 reversed.

In any event. Even if Eli were to get the same level of protection in 2014 that he got in 2011, something tells me his numbers wouldn't reflect it at all.


I agree with that.
Why?  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 12:03 pm : link
Is that because of all the different variables that have already been mentioned or is it because you feel Eli has lost something?...this is my point.
RE: Why?  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 12:06 pm : link
In comment 11819243 Wonderphil11 said:
Quote:
Is that because of all the different variables that have already been mentioned or is it because you feel Eli has lost something?...this is my point.


I personally feel Eli has lost something. I can't pinpoint why or what. But I don't think he's the same QB we won a Super Bowl with in February of 2012. Doesn't mean I think he sucks or shouldn't play or has lost it completely. I don't think any of those things. I do think something's off, though.
Of all of Eli Manning's performances  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/22/2014 12:07 pm : link
The one that has always stuck out for me as his best game ever was 2011 against Dallas (the JPP blocked field goal game).

He was 27/47 with 400 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT.

But beyond that, I have never seen a Giants QB have such success in a game where he was under such pressure. This in particular was one of those games that Gilbride's offensive strategy really paid off. Eli had NO time to get rid of the ball. He was under duress on almost every single drop back. What saved him, in my opinion, was an incredibly in-sync game with his wide receivers. Eli had to consistently make throws when the receiver hadn't even made the final maneuver in his route yet. Everyone had to trust each other and have reason for that trust, otherwise we would've been blown out of the water offensively.

Additionally, even with that in-sync relationship, Eli was making INCREDIBLE throws off his back foot. The pass rush from Dallas that day was endless and Eli stood up to it as successfully as I've seen. Throw in the fact that he had to lead two TD drives in the final five minutes to save a would-be Superbowl season and, looking back, I can't recall a better performance from #10.
RE: I don't  
baadbill : 8/22/2014 12:08 pm : link
In comment 11818653 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
think it is so much people saying "Eli is done" as it is the realization that this "could" be a possibility.

It's not inconceivable. It's happened to other excellent QBs.

It's too early to tell.

But Eli hasn't played well for a long time now.


Eric, I was very surprised to read your recent statements regarding concerns about Manning. For me, in order for there to be a concern about a player, the concern has to be accompanied with a reasonable explanation of causation.

A top flight athlete doesn't just stop being a top athlete for no reason at all.
Age? Well, Manning isn't 40.
Injury? None that I've heard about.
Never was a good football player and the SB years were flukes? I'm not buying into that.

So, what is the causation of this sudden "not any good"? I don't believe there is any cause because I reject the premise. Give Manning the OL from 2007, a healthy Jacobs and Ward, Nicks/Cruz/and Manningham in their prime - and guess what - you're going to get the SB performing Eli Manning. And if you (generic "you"), don't think so, I don't know what to say to you other than to ask what you're smoking, because there is NO reason to believe Eli wouldn't perform when surrounded with great talent.

Manning isn't a player like Peyton who is going to carry a bad team on his back and possibly win all by himself. He needs a supporting cast. A solid supporting cast. But give him that supporting cast and he's the same player who brought home two SB trophies and will bring home another. There simply isn't ANY reason to believe otherwise. At least not until you surround him with that supporting cast and he fails. Until then, it's pure speculation - and unfair speculation at that.
......  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 12:10 pm : link
Well, our WR's were outstanding in 2011. An underrated aspect to Eli's yardage numbers.

But 2011, thus far, has been a peak year for Eli. It's an outlier. I don't expect a 2011 or 2013 type year again. It's not that I think he lost anything, just that he's going to 'mean revert' to where he's historically been numbers wise.
Huh?  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/22/2014 12:11 pm : link
Baadbill, there is plenty of reason for concern over Eli. It's one thing to say people are jumping the gun with preseason performances (they are), but to wash away legitimate concern for a player who hasn't been very good for quite some time now is equally shortsighted.

Additionally, this comment:
Quote:
Manning isn't a player like Peyton who is going to carry a bad team on his back and possibly win all by himself.


I wouldn't call the 2011 Giants a "bad team" (no team to win the Super Bowl) is. however:

- They are the only 9-7 team to win a Super Bowl
- The are the only team to win a Super Bowl in a season where they lost 4 straight
- They are the only team to have won a Superbowl while giving up more points than they scored.

Point being, I certainly think Eli is the type of QB who can take a bad team on his back and win all by himself. The fact that he is not Peyton has nothing to do with that fact.
Our 2011 team was probably the worst regular season team to win  
BrettNYG10 : 8/22/2014 12:12 pm : link
The Super Bowl. Eli carried that team.
Couldn't agree more.....  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 12:15 pm : link
Baadbill....well said!
I don't think Eli is "done"  
bigbluehoya : 8/22/2014 12:23 pm : link
Whatever that means, but I also don't think that's the pertinent question.

The question, IMO, is "is Eli, even if you assume an average to above average OL, worth ~$20m/yr against the cap going forward?"

I love Eli, but that answer for me is no. And it isn't very close. While we have had a couple of special playoff runs that I wouldn't trade for anything (sports-wise), $20M a year for his production (even in his better years) is just too much in today's game. He has always turned the ball over way too much for that kind of money.

Especially considering that he'll probably be looking for 5-7 more years, I don't think the giants would be totally crazy to walk away at the end of this contract. (Having said that, I don't think they WILL walk away).
I don't think it's unfair to believe the OL being a mess for as long  
Riggies : 8/22/2014 12:25 pm : link
as it has been one has taken a significant toll on Eli.

It's one thing for him to stand on his head and cover for a poor OL for one season (2011), but when the team follows it up with an extremely up/down OL (2012), then again with a putrid one (2013), then yet again seemingly not likely fixing anything significantly (2014)... it's only natural that it's some degree of scarring, especially with all the other issues on offense (horrible TEs, WR problems, etc) in play.

If any QB can overcome though, bounce back when it doesn't seem likely, it might as well be Eli.
the 2011 OL was pathetic  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/22/2014 12:30 pm : link
the interior was stronger in 2011 than 2013, but the 2011 OL was just pathetic. It was one of the worst units in the league.

Eli's 2011 was just an epic year in which he carried a 5 win team to the playoffs, and then once the rest of that team lived up to its potential in the playoffs he led them to a Super Bowl. Eli's 2011 goes down as the Clutchest QB Season since the turn of the Millennium. He was just absolutely money that year.

But that year just looks a little like a slight anomaly. Eli just doesn't seem like the same guy he was in 2011 when he was able to make up for a horrid OL. Sure having Nicks and Cruz both at their peak made a difference. Those two made so many brilliant plays for us on 50-50 balls. But Eli was just throwing absolute darts that year and just in a season-long rhythm.

Eli showed in 2011 that he can play behind a garbage OL and win a Super Bowl with them. But he just doesn't look like the same guy. I'm praying that 2011 Eli makes a return, because this team goes from 6-10 to 10-6 immediately with 2011 Eli. Just praying it happens but I don't expect it.
RE: the 2011 OL was pathetic  
Sean : 8/22/2014 12:38 pm : link
In comment 11819335 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
the interior was stronger in 2011 than 2013, but the 2011 OL was just pathetic. It was one of the worst units in the league.

Eli's 2011 was just an epic year in which he carried a 5 win team to the playoffs, and then once the rest of that team lived up to its potential in the playoffs he led them to a Super Bowl. Eli's 2011 goes down as the Clutchest QB Season since the turn of the Millennium. He was just absolutely money that year.

But that year just looks a little like a slight anomaly. Eli just doesn't seem like the same guy he was in 2011 when he was able to make up for a horrid OL. Sure having Nicks and Cruz both at their peak made a difference. Those two made so many brilliant plays for us on 50-50 balls. But Eli was just throwing absolute darts that year and just in a season-long rhythm.

Eli showed in 2011 that he can play behind a garbage OL and win a Super Bowl with them. But he just doesn't look like the same guy. I'm praying that 2011 Eli makes a return, because this team goes from 6-10 to 10-6 immediately with 2011 Eli. Just praying it happens but I don't expect it.


Great points on Eli.

Not to miller the thread, but at some point it needs to be viewed as a negative with Nadal with all his injuries and the amount of grand slams he misses. Federer plays in ALL of them.
With all this conjecture, make no mistake about it..  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/22/2014 1:01 pm : link
The 2013 OL was worse than the 2011 OL. The proof is in the pudding.

Both both OLs were subpar. In one of those seasons Eli was exceptional. In the other he looked like a young David Carr. Now to call Eli done based on that one bad season is unfair, but to entirely disregard it is naive.

At this point, as strange as it is to say, nothing Eli does should really surprise anyone. This is a very uniquely unknown season we're about to witness.
Not having a legitimate #1 receiving target  
Chicken Teriyaki Boy : 8/22/2014 1:30 pm : link
the past two seasons in KG's offense, on top of the offensive line situation, was no minor issue.

You simply can't remove both those elements from the equation and expect to have any reasonable level of sustained success.

And when both those situations are allowed to get progressively worse over that period, you shouldn't be surprised if they start to take a physical and mental toll on your QB.





lol unexpected miller  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/22/2014 1:33 pm : link
yea I agree with you. It's becoming harder and harder to take Nadal over Federer. This year's no-show on the hardcourts was a big disappointment for Nadal after he absolutely dominated the surface last year during the US Open season. I was so impressed with what Nadal did on the hardcourt last year. I thought his hardcourt run immensely helped his legacy last year. To see him not even show up on that surface this year was just a punch to the nuts. I just like Nadal more but Federer simply has a more complete case.

To flip it back to Eli...

Pro-Football Reference has a stat called Adjusted Net Yards per Pass Attempt (ANY/A). It's just another way to measure QBs. I would take it with a (large) grain of salt, but I find it to be a better stat than QB Rating or any other fantasy football measure. Football stats only tell you so much, but still this is where Eli ranks each season since 2005 (min. 350 pass attempts)...

2005: 13th
2006: 14th
2007: 16th
2008: 16th
2009: 10th
2010: 13th
2011: 4th
2012: 10th
2013: 22nd

His 2011 season sticks out so much. The only QBs ahead of him that year in this stat were the Rodgers/Brady/Brees HOF trio (Peyton was out this year). So Eli ranked 4th in 2011 based on simple stats. But if you take into consideration his absolutely historic 4th quarter performance, his absolutely dreadful OL, and his Super Bowl ring... you could argue that Eli Manning was the best QB in football in 2011. I think Rodgers or Brady probably deserve that title, but Eli went through both of their teams to win his ring.

Eli has always been a hot/cold player but in 2011 he just stayed hot. 2011 Eli is one of the finest seasons from a single athlete I've ever seen from start to finish. I will always defend Eli from the blind haters because of what he did in 2011. He put this team on his back and carried them to a title. Just legendary stuff.

Throughout his career, Eli has arguably been the most impressive "Clutch" QB in the league statistically so the ANY/A rankings underrate him a bit. But statistically and visually, 2011 just looks like an anomaly in his career. Outside of 2011 he has just been a good-but-not-great QB who is better than his fantasy football numbers indicate but worse what BBI Eli homers think.

That being said his fall from "arguably the best QB" in the game to "awful" in 2 years is just insane. It's scary how far he has fallen in 2 years. But Eli has always zigged when people expected him to zag, so I'm hoping he shocks the world one more time and gets back to being a stud. But that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I haven't seen anything this pre-season to suggest that 2011 Eli will be making a return.
I would argue....  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 1:38 pm : link
that 2013 was more of an outlier than 2011.
2013 was the hands down worst of his career  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/22/2014 1:43 pm : link
2011 was the hands down best of his career

They're both outliers. I expect Eli to have a stronger 2014 than 2013, but we really haven't seen or read anything that suggests a much better Eli in camp or pre-season.

I will never doubt Eli. I still believe that once he gets in a rhythm in the new offense, he could look a hell of a lot better. But it's just scary how awful this offense sounds/looks entering this season.
But...  
Wonderphil11 : 8/22/2014 1:51 pm : link
do you put any credence in the multiple, highly dysfunctional aspects of the offense during that period? Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that Eli had a very bad year...my point is, given those dysfunctional aspects plus the obvious adjusting needed to a new offense and new players and new coaches, etc...I can't agree to consider that Eli is losing his abilities in some way or is permanently shell shocked as I've seen too much and believe in his mental toughness. I honestly think that people are being way too myopic about this...my guess is that it's because some never truly accepted his faults but that's just my opinion.
Mean is 13.1  
WideRight : 8/22/2014 1:52 pm : link
4th is more of an outlier.

This is a football site so every is performance related, but there is something else that is really different about Eli: He's now 33 with a wife and kids, 100M in the bank and two SB MVPs. Careers arc, and its only evident when you see more in the rearview mirror than over the dashboard. He's got a lot to look forward to in life, but football is a smaller part of it than ever before. I think he can still put on a great show, lead a team and everything, but I just don't think we'll see anymore 4th quarter superbowl heroics, and he knows it. There are hungrier guys out there and that makes a difference.
RE: lol unexpected miller  
baadbill : 8/22/2014 2:10 pm : link
In comment 11819517 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
yea I agree with you. It's becoming harder and harder to take Nadal over Federer. This year's no-show on the hardcourts was a big disappointment for Nadal after he absolutely dominated the surface last year during the US Open season. I was so impressed with what Nadal did on the hardcourt last year. I thought his hardcourt run immensely helped his legacy last year. To see him not even show up on that surface this year was just a punch to the nuts. I just like Nadal more but Federer simply has a more complete case.

To flip it back to Eli...

Pro-Football Reference has a stat called Adjusted Net Yards per Pass Attempt (ANY/A). It's just another way to measure QBs. I would take it with a (large) grain of salt, but I find it to be a better stat than QB Rating or any other fantasy football measure. Football stats only tell you so much, but still this is where Eli ranks each season since 2005 (min. 350 pass attempts)...

2005: 13th
2006: 14th
2007: 16th
2008: 16th
2009: 10th
2010: 13th
2011: 4th
2012: 10th
2013: 22nd

His 2011 season sticks out so much. The only QBs ahead of him that year in this stat were the Rodgers/Brady/Brees HOF trio (Peyton was out this year). So Eli ranked 4th in 2011 based on simple stats. But if you take into consideration his absolutely historic 4th quarter performance, his absolutely dreadful OL, and his Super Bowl ring... you could argue that Eli Manning was the best QB in football in 2011. I think Rodgers or Brady probably deserve that title, but Eli went through both of their teams to win his ring.

Eli has always been a hot/cold player but in 2011 he just stayed hot. 2011 Eli is one of the finest seasons from a single athlete I've ever seen from start to finish. I will always defend Eli from the blind haters because of what he did in 2011. He put this team on his back and carried them to a title. Just legendary stuff.

Throughout his career, Eli has arguably been the most impressive "Clutch" QB in the league statistically so the ANY/A rankings underrate him a bit. But statistically and visually, 2011 just looks like an anomaly in his career. Outside of 2011 he has just been a good-but-not-great QB who is better than his fantasy football numbers indicate but worse what BBI Eli homers think.

That being said his fall from "arguably the best QB" in the game to "awful" in 2 years is just insane. It's scary how far he has fallen in 2 years. But Eli has always zigged when people expected him to zag, so I'm hoping he shocks the world one more time and gets back to being a stud. But that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I haven't seen anything this pre-season to suggest that 2011 Eli will be making a return.


He didn't single handedly carry the team on his back. Far from it. He played with the greatest WR corp in Giants history (bar none) and probably the best trio, as a group, in pro football that year. Give Eli those three WR playing the way they played - and he'll give you the same results every year. You can disagree but what you can't do is prove me wrong. Because Eli's only had bad performances when he has had bad support. I tend to believe what I see and I think I'll wait to see Eli play poorly when surrounded by great talent before I write him off.
Victor Cruz and Nicks  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 8/22/2014 2:28 pm : link
were tremendous players that year. Just an excellent one-two punch. Mario has always been overrated but he was a very capable big play threat as well. The WR corps was very good on that team. I understand how great Cruz and Nicks were that year. Eli definitely had better weapons than he did last year or this year. But Eli was far and away the main reason this team won a Super Bowl that year. And Eli's performance independent of his weapons was still far better in 2011 than any other year of his career.

This is a team sport so when I say "singlehandedly" I don't literally mean singlehandedly. But Eli and the passing game were the only consistent positives on this team that year until the D stepped up late in the year. No QB can truly singlehandedly carry a team to a Super Bowl. But Eli came damn close.

RE: Victor Cruz and Nicks  
baadbill : 8/22/2014 2:45 pm : link
In comment 11819639 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
were tremendous players that year. Just an excellent one-two punch. Mario has always been overrated but he was a very capable big play threat as well. The WR corps was very good on that team. I understand how great Cruz and Nicks were that year. Eli definitely had better weapons than he did last year or this year. But Eli was far and away the main reason this team won a Super Bowl that year. And Eli's performance independent of his weapons was still far better in 2011 than any other year of his career.

This is a team sport so when I say "singlehandedly" I don't literally mean singlehandedly. But Eli and the passing game were the only consistent positives on this team that year until the D stepped up late in the year. No QB can truly singlehandedly carry a team to a Super Bowl. But Eli came damn close.


Osi, I don't disagree that Eli had a great year. I'm just disputing the suggestion that he's a different player today. Here's what I saw in 2013. An OL that was arguably worse than my town's pee wee team that led to:
1. A complete inability to run the ball.
2. A complete inability to pass protect.
3. Result? Defenses smothered the short and medium routes leaving nobody open. Ever. And Manning didn't have time to attempt longer passes.

If you can imagine a scenario in which NFL teams were promised a huge reward (say 10 billion dollars) to play all out against my team's pee wee team - and then you put any QB in the history of the NFL on that pee wee team - and then "judge" that QB based upon his play in those games. That's what's happened to Manning. Manning may be done. But I'd argue there isn't anyone on earth who has any basis to make that conclusion - at least not based on 2013.
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