Eli is Done?

the NEW offensive line isn't giving him any better protection than he had last year. Notwithstanding that, there's the very worrisome prospect that Eli is playing gun-shy. And he's trying to learn a new offense, when the old offensive scheme wasn't really the problem.

Most are simply concerned because he hasn't played all that well since mid-2012.

But feel free to overreact more than the people you're accusing of doing just that.

might finish him

Say he is hurt, call him a bum. He has continued to overcome all. Least of our worries. He has done the impossible and is money when it counts.

this site's thoughts on Eli. This is the lowest Eli's "perception" has been on BBI since I've been here.

And it's not like I completely disagree with the doubters. I totally see where they're coming from and I see some alarming trends myself. But it's just such a kick to the nuts to come onto this site and see how down everyone is about this team.

The NFC East has always been a toss-up division and I'm hoping Eli can get it rolling as the season goes on. But right now, I just expect another down offensive season but with less turnovers and more pathetic dink-dunk drives.

because we have a whole bunch of unemployed GM's here on BBI

Eli fan since day one but "least of our worries" is ridiculous.

I wonder how old Eli will have to be and how much more erratic his play until it is fair to worry that he is now a big part of the problem. Really unfortunate to see the line take all the blame, though much is deserved. Truthfully, Eli is a warrior but that should not deflect all the concern. No matter how courageous or determined, balls into the feet, behind the receiver and too high are a basis for concern.

I've considered the possibility, but I can't believe this is it for him. Not at age 33.

Never seems to bring out reasonable opinions. He is neither a HOF QB or a bum, however he really needs to play better or we are screwed.

In comment 11818615 bceagle05 said:

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I've considered the possibility, but I can't believe this is it for him. Not at age 33.

yes, I think this is the first time any of us have considered the possibility.

Hopefully Eli will prove the doubters wrong. It doesn't help that other aspects of the offense are in transition to WCO/chaos/Reese can't draft.

Eli and the rest of the offense has sucked so far, and we are discussing it on a fan discussion board. There is, as there should be, a diversity of opinion, everything from "nothing to worry about", to "wonder if he's done". Some people just take any difference of opinion as an affront and need to rant about what's wrong with everyone else. Chill for Gods sake.

Never seems to bring out reasonable opinions. He is neither a HOF QB or a bum, however he really needs to play better or we are screwed.

but could be very productive in another situation. Bottom liner is Eli isn't good enough to make up for team's overall deficiencies, mostly because he is a pocket passer with no mobility.

People are missing gilbride... still dont why pope gets
fired for jr....

a ferrari is a great car, but they don't race them off road with success. aaron rogers runs the same "packer" style offense, but he has mobility, and throws quick tight accurate spirals. many times eli's passes look like he's auditioning for "duck dynasty". after last year's onslaught of "look out!" blocks, he's tentative and addicted to throwing off his back foot while turning his head in anticipation of the impending collision....meanwhile.... t.c. gawks at the wobbly ducks from the sidelines, hands on hips and he might be witnessing his own swan song.....

It seems early for E, but given his performances it's fair to ask the question.

which is pretty good. If the Jints oline doesn't look above average against the Jets then it will be a very long and disappointing season.

think it is so much people saying "Eli is done" as it is the realization that this "could" be a possibility.

It's not inconceivable. It's happened to other excellent QBs.

It's too early to tell.

But Eli hasn't played well for a long time now.

until this season is over.

It could very well take the better part of this year for Manning to wrap his head around the new offense and, even more importantly, for the offensive line to jell.

Its much to early to tell. I expect a bumpy road to start off the season.

will say this, and I'm still an Eli believer... if he stinks this year I'm looking to move on.

Someone needs to ask him if he is an elite QB ... then we can enjoy 2011 x2

of philly and cinci for example, They are a BRICK WALL. dalton and foles look great back there. they look so comfortable. our line sucks and is obviously rebuilding. eli looks scared for his life back there. he has no time in the pocket with out feeling a rush. and it is the same problem. the rush come right up the middle, in his face. I don't think eli is done, but the team looks to be going backwards. If we can't pass against the jets shitty DBs, we are DEAD. and this week, they are game planning, so they better be productive.

Think Eli is done. When giving time in the pocket, he does deliver. Eli's mechanics can be corrected. He just has to regain that confidence in the o'line again. To me, up front, is where it begins. And right now, we might have the worse o'line in the league.

Has not given any Giant fan reason to be optimistic. More concerning to me is the number of interceptions thrown at practice with no pass rush or fear of getting hit.

Eli was a mistake, but you can put that mistake behind you anytime. We encourage you to release him and move on.

Your Friends,

Kurt Warner
Curtis Painter
Ryan Nassib's mom

Then there's always the possibility that he could have a sex change. or you could be right or be wrong.

Or you're so used to seeing him perform miracles that anything less than that for any reason means he's lost it.

God, how could you make such pigheaded, tunnel visioned bodies Giant fans?
What were you thinking, God?

It's bad enough the OL line isn't working yet. The new hires are still tryingto figure out the new scheme.

Eli is not taking the hits because it hurt just as much in a preseason game as in a regular game.

Obviously the present giant fans and I definitely include Eric the administrator are giving up on the season before the game is played. No, they aren't giving up they're just not sure BASED ON THE PRESEASON RESULTS that Eli isn' there . AND JUST HOW WELL HAS CRUZ PERFORMED????

DAMMIT if you're going top pick on the failures then do it for the WHOLE OFFENSE. Don't just select one most apparent person and build the upside down pyramid of fault on is head.

For Pete's sake don't backtrack and say, "I meant it as a possibility" That's bullshit. If you think it then say it and I'll know you're a fair weather fan, disguises or not.

It's always a possibilty, EVERYTHING IS A POSSIBILITY!

As a fan you have every right to Criticize the team. On the other hand as a fan, I have every right to point out that your support of the team SUCKS!!

You tell me if I don't like it don't read the comments

I tell you that if you don't like my comments, don't read'em.

Snively bastids!!!!!

In comment 11818712 vince said:

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What were you thinking, God?

Haha, vince just killed it. So refreshing. I agree vince. I know a lot of these same people couldn't even hold on to any hope as a fans in the middle of our 2011 run. It's the same mentality.

I've always been a big Eli guy & I think that this talk of him being 'done' is ridiculous. As for the 'Well, it's happened to other guys', yeah I'm not going to dispute that. But people also thought Elway was done in the early 90s so it cuts both ways.

I think it's pretty obvious that Eli suffered some type of injury midway through the '12 season because if people remember, he was playing lights out to begin that season. As for last season, uh, our OL was an absolute abomination. Do people have amnesia about how historically awful that line was? Don't quote me, but I think Eli was sacked five times in the first 7 or 8 minutes of that Panthers game. You also had the diva WR doing God knows what, a joke of a TE, and a running back group so strong that Peyton Freaking Hillis came in mid-season and was the best option.

Regarding this preseason, it's preseason. Am I concerned? Yeah, but I'm concerned about the whole offense, not just Eli. It was going to take time. A lot of these lineman are playing with each other for the first time & it's going to take time for them to gel & get on the same page. Eli hasn't looked that sharp, but the OL is a work in progress, Randle is MIA, & the TE position is still a joke. At least the RBs look better.

I hear people say that Eli carried this team @ points before & that's absolutely true. But what if the talent around him is so bad that he can't? Is that all of a sudden his fault?

I guess time will tell regarding Eli, but some of the stuff being thrown around here about his is lunacy. Wait until 2025 or so when we got that year's version of Geno Smith & you'll be longing for the good 'ol days of Eli.

not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies.
Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )

and the Giants haven't even played their first game yet

In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:

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not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )

Great article, however one based upon thorough analysis deeper than that of the arm-chair QB's "eyeball test." How dare anyone suggest that Eli Manning shouldn't be expected to throw no more than 10 interceptions regardless of the the throws he's expected to make, the pressure in his face, or the shortcomings of his receivers (SARCASM).

The perception of Eli has become one a bit of a football IQ test for NY sports fans. I can excuse the ignorance of fans across the country that may not be able to watch every Giants game but if you're a NY sports fan and genuinely think that Eli has been a responsible part of the Giants' problem....

I just cannot help but become perturbed when folks say, "the line was dreadful, he had no running game, and the receivers were directly responsible for a ton of mistakes but still...Eli played poorly." Well, how the heck can you fairly evaluate a pocket-passing quarterback in the sort of environment where nearly every single input effecting his performance goes to hell?

In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said:

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not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window )

Good piece Peter thanks. I think one of the big things that cost KG his job is that he refused to adjust when it was obvious that the OL just could not hold on long enough to allow Eli to throw it downfield effectively. With no running game to speak of it became tee off time for opposing pass rushers. It all begins and ends with the OL, and as we have all written numerous times, Reese has failed miserably to replace the great OL from 2006-2010 as they aged.

In comment 11818844 BurberryManning said:

Quote:

In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said: Quote: not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window ) Great article, however one based upon thorough analysis deeper than that of the arm-chair QB's "eyeball test." How dare anyone suggest that Eli Manning shouldn't be expected to throw no more than 10 interceptions regardless of the the throws he's expected to make, the pressure in his face, or the shortcomings of his receivers (SARCASM). The perception of Eli has become one a bit of a football IQ test for NY sports fans. I can excuse the ignorance of fans across the country that may not be able to watch every Giants game but if you're a NY sports fan and genuinely think that Eli has been a responsible part of the Giants' problem.... I just cannot help but become perturbed when folks say, "the line was dreadful, he had no running game, and the receivers were directly responsible for a ton of mistakes but still...Eli played poorly." Well, how the heck can you fairly evaluate a pocket-passing quarterback in the sort of environment where nearly every single input effecting his performance goes to hell?

This

In comment 11818850 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

In comment 11818792 Peter from CT said: Quote: not sure if it has been posted here before. If so, my apologies. Film Room: Eli Manning - ( New Window ) Good piece Peter thanks. I think one of the big things that cost KG his job is that he refused to adjust when it was obvious that the OL just could not hold on long enough to allow Eli to throw it downfield effectively. With no running game to speak of it became tee off time for opposing pass rushers. It all begins and ends with the OL, and as we have all written numerous times, Reese has failed miserably to replace the great OL from 2006-2010 as they aged.

This too..

Eli is not done.
Brett's hug curse is just a minor blip for Eli

Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+

He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.

But fat lady has to be at least warming up. Guys, Eli will be 34 in January - in NFL years that is very old.

The OLine, the wr-qb communication issues, etc. yeah I get it. Those issues have made him look way worse than he is. Last year the Oline was horrendous and it was aging the year before that. And, the year before that - well, he won a SB.

But, a human being can only play so long in this league.

In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+ He just looks a bit out of sorts.

Good points, Arc. While I'm quick to defend Eli's recent performance I wont argue that A) a more mobile QB would help to mitigate the effects of a brutal surrounding cast B) the accumulated hits and mistrust in receivers could certainly, and may have, creeped into Eli's head which could detract from his play going forward. These points dont invalidate my thesis, that contributing factors never gave Eli the chance to succeed in 2012/2013, but do present concerns going forward.

I would doubt that many would disagree that Kurt Warner was one of the best quarterbacks ever but at some point it was obvious that he was shell-shocked, prior to a revival in the desert. I dont think that we've come close to that point with regards to Eli but its surely a concern.

whether or not it is time for Reese to go.

has not changed at all IMO. He's the same QB he's always been it's just that we've seen the same Eli we saw his first couple of years in 12/13 because he's had a severly deteriorating and sometimes absolutely putrid supporting cast for the most part and that's now combined with learning a new offense, etc....just as he had to do in his "formative" years. This is Eli folks...we've known him for 10 years now. I have absolutely zero concerns about his mental state...none....why? Because he's quite possibly the most clutch minded, mentally strong QB that has ever played the game and I've seen what he can do with some decent pieces in place. Eli is just being Eli, if his skills were diminishing, there would be more obvious concern coming from TC as he's not one to hide those feelings even if he does have a history of being loyal to vets and has not once indicated a concern about Eli's QB abilities (I'm not talking about "he had a down year" type talk either, I'm speaking of genuine concern about his skillset).

In comment 11818875 BurberryManning said:

Quote:

In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said: Quote: Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+ He just looks a bit out of sorts. Good points, Arc. While I'm quick to defend Eli's recent performance I wont argue that A) a more mobile QB would help to mitigate the effects of a brutal surrounding cast B) the accumulated hits and mistrust in receivers could certainly, and may have, creeped into Eli's head which could detract from his play going forward. These points dont invalidate my thesis, that contributing factors never gave Eli the chance to succeed in 2012/2013, but do present concerns going forward. I would doubt that many would disagree that Kurt Warner was one of the best quarterbacks ever but at some point it was obvious that he was shell-shocked, prior to a revival in the desert. I dont think that we've come close to that point with regards to Eli but its surely a concern.

Burb, I definitely think with adequate protection, Eli can still be an above average QB. What worries me is that I don't think he'll get it from this current OL and I fear that another 2013-like year for him will really propel him to the end of his career in rapid fashion.

Eli is he finished, gun shy or something else we all don't know. Is this an age thing or decline in physical ability along with a new offense system remains to be seen. What we do know is that he has not looked good in practice or preseason games. Eli is slow and deliberate with no movement skills and maybe some arm strength loss it appears. The other thing we know is that management is also not sure what they have in Eli that's why there has been no talk about a contract extension at all.

The OL is just like Eli in many ways they are learning and replacing many parts as the days go by. Why this guy or that guy has not been placed here or there due to injury or rehab along with prior position played is also a factor. I for one am not concerned about the OL if they can't run or pass block this has yet to be proven. No team has all pros or #1 picks at every OL position they will improve as time goes by. Today if you ask them to give Eli 6-8 seconds they will fail 80% of the time if not more. We all want to protect Eli then the first step is not to ask the OL to do something they can't do.

The starting WR's or RB have still not yet been consistently productive with Eli in the game. Cruz, Randle and JJ are very average at this point for starters. However the other two QB's have shown the ability to produce with 2nd and 3rd teamers on the field. Yes you can say they are subs but they are moving the chains something Eli has not been able to do.

As for the TE's I still don't understand how Robinson just fell from the top spot to the outhouse that quickly. If he looked as good as reported why is he not even 2nd or 3rd string after his OTA's and from all reports no injury. The separation he got on both passes is the best we have all seen from any of our pass receiving sections. Do we have a starter on the team it would seem like we don't yet which is a problem. None of these guys seem to be able block or catch well enough to claim the starting spot.

It's preseason we still don't know much about this offense and should we be concerned for sure. Will we really see a WCO with TC and Eli is also a big question. You will know when things are really bad if Eli starts calling out Omaha Omaha Lol. I'm not going to say we will win 4 or 12 games this season is a test for the offense and us Giants fans.

If you look at our OL, we have done virtually a complete make over due to the disaster that was last year. Beatty is the only OL who has significant playing time with the Giants, and of course he is coming back from an injury and a bad year. On top of that, we are installing a new offense (with a talented OC who has never been an OC before), and one of our main offensive talents (Beckham) has yet to play a snap. We really have no TE, but we all desperately hope one of the TE's on the roster will emerge to give us some semblance of a threat from that position. We also have two new running backs, and though they will fortify that position going forward, they are new too. Until the OL is in place, and has some continuity, it is very difficult to judge where we are with Eli. I don't give up on any year, but if this turns out to be a year of development, so be it. In that event, I look to the offseason to fill in the remaining holes and to win a Super Bowl in the 2015-16 season. Eli is not done, he will win one more Super Bowl. I don't know what the odds are on that, or against that, but my money is all in.

In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+ He just looks a bit out of sorts. Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit.

I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently..

I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..

In comment 11819012 JCin332 said:

Quote:

In comment 11818864 arcarsenal said: Quote: Eli just isn't one of those guys. Which is fine, it's not like he was ever really a mobile QB. But to me, his pocket presence was stronger in the past than it is right now. And not just when he was getting good protection. His response to the pockets breaking down in the past just looked better footwork and delivery wise to me than it has over the last year+ He just looks a bit out of sorts. Looking forward to seeing him play tonight. Hopefully he calms everyone down a bit. I hear this repeatedly on BBI that there are some QB's who can survive poor OL's yet all the elite ones in this league have MUCH better lines than Eli does currently.. I don't see any elite QB's (mobile or not)out there who don't have good OL's and by that I mean good in pass pro and run blocking..

See: Luck, Andrew.. Rodgers, Aaron.. Roethlisberger, Ben

All of them were good last year (Rodgers missed 7 games) despite poor OL play in front of them. Much better than Eli was.

Giants got a lot of pressure on him but no sacks. His mobility for his size is amazing.

he can do in this system. I was never a fan of Gilbrides system and thought it was holding Manning back from being the kind of player he was in college.

That said, I don't feel like he's been the same player since his house was flooded. But that could just be coincidence. I think he'll turn it around this season in a big way.

you can't compare different QB's in different systems with different players/coaches and different skillsets...if you want to do a complete, detailed analysis of this, fine...but to suggest that this guy did it so why can't our guy do it is very shaky IMO. It just comes off as you preferring those QB's to Eli, which is fine but call it what it is.

In comment 11819060 Wonderphil11 said:

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you can't compare different QB's in different systems with different players/coaches and different skillsets...if you want to do a complete, detailed analysis of this, fine...but to suggest that this guy did it so why can't our guy do it is very shaky IMO. It just comes off as you preferring those QB's to Eli, which is fine but call it what it is.

You don't have to go into a detailed analysis. There are just QB's who are better at negating some bad OL play than Eli is. It doesn't mean I think Eli sucks or can't be good. But it's the truth. The guys I listed are more mobile and able to extend plays when their protections break down. Eli really doesn't have that ability. All you had to do was watch the preseason game last week. Our defense closed in on Luck multiple times and he got away and still made a play. When their guys closed in on Eli he either got picked off or went down for a sack.

Like I said, with good pass pro, I still think Eli can be an above average QB. He throws the deep ball as well as anyone in this league. I am just not confident he will get that protection this year.