for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Question about Eli, and the verbiage of the new offense

steve in ky : 8/21/2014 10:16 pm
More than once I have read about how the new offense uses a different language for the plays they run even if the plays that were in the old system. I read one article somewhere where Eli was explaining how they have adjust to learning the names of the plays because even if they are the same plays they used to run they are now called something entirely different.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for McAdoo to have adapted his plays to the language the Giants were already using wherever possible?

Maybe I am missing something but it seems like that would lesson the learning curve and speed up the progress.

Is there any big benefits of changing it all even all the language when installing a new offense, or was this simply just McAdoo sticking with what he was most comfortable moving forward and I guess that is not necessarily a bad thing either.

The verbiage Eli needs to be concerned about  
deadkurtrulz : 8/21/2014 10:19 pm : link
is his offensive linemen screaming 'Look out!'.
McAdoo  
robbieballs2003 : 8/21/2014 10:25 pm : link
Is the main architect of this offense. I agree it is easier for one person to change than the whole team but this is one case where the players need to adapt. The OC has to have full command of this offense and all the intricacies of it. All the call, protections, adjustments, etc. need to explained to the players and installed. McAdoo doesn't have access to the old offense and the reasons things were called one way or called a certain term. There is not enough time for him to learn a whole new offense. The calls, adjustments, protections, etc. and still be able to explain WHY they are doing something. It will lead to more confusion.
sorry for the  
robbieballs2003 : 8/21/2014 10:26 pm : link
Mistakes in that last post.
steve in ky  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:27 pm : link
I've wondered about this a lot too.

There is probably a logical, rational explanation for this.

The language is probably tied to the system and not readily convertible.

But...if possible... like you say, doesn't it make more sense for the coaches to adjust than the players?
RE: McAdoo  
steve in ky : 8/21/2014 10:29 pm : link
In comment 11818646 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Is the main architect of this offense. I agree it is easier for one person to change than the whole team but this is one case where the players need to adapt. The OC has to have full command of this offense and all the intricacies of it. All the call, protections, adjustments, etc. need to explained to the players and installed. McAdoo doesn't have access to the old offense and the reasons things were called one way or called a certain term. There is not enough time for him to learn a whole new offense. The calls, adjustments, protections, etc. and still be able to explain WHY they are doing something. It will lead to more confusion.


Yeah that makes sense. I guess I just thought if Coughlin and he would have went over it when first hired TC could have said OK that screen play we call x and not y lets leave that alone. But it makes sense that McAdoo has to be the most at ease with it all.
Could have been a thought of Macadoo  
bradshaw44 : 8/21/2014 10:31 pm : link
That other teams had keyed on their verbiage and maybe it was a safe play to change it.
RE: steve in ky  
steve in ky : 8/21/2014 10:32 pm : link
In comment 11818648 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've wondered about this a lot too.

There is probably a logical, rational explanation for this.

The language is probably tied to the system and not readily convertible.

But...if possible... like you say, doesn't it make more sense for the coaches to adjust than the players?


Yeah obviously there would need to be changes, but is seems like there could have been some adapting at least to some extent, but that's why I asked to see others take on it.
steve  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/21/2014 10:34 pm : link
it's funny that you bring this up because I was thinking about this on the way home from work today.
Eric  
steve in ky : 8/21/2014 10:36 pm : link
That is funny because it's not like a common thing to think about either. Well you know what they say about great minds thinking alike LOL
I Have Thought The Same Thing  
Trainmaster : 8/21/2014 11:14 pm : link
having one guy learn new terminology versus the whole team (including the offensive coaches who stayed on a Coughlin).

The point about the old offense being "known" is probably at least somewhat valid.
Lucky for us, the 3rd and long handoff out of shotgun  
SHO'NUFF : 8/21/2014 11:22 pm : link
is still called "The-Ultimate-Secret-Super-Duper They'll-Never-See-It-Coming Play".
i thought that  
japanhead : 8/22/2014 1:06 am : link
gilbride made reference to something sort of interesting in that interview with him the other day. this is what he said:

"It's a normal pedagogical approach, where you teach the whole thing at once. When everything's thrown at you, it may not be perfect in terms of game-planning for that week, and it can look ugly."

i recall from coughlin's first season that he subscribed to something he termed "the overload principle", where they just threw everything at them all at once and made the players work thought it all. it was probably one of the reasons eli looked so bad in his first camp in 2004.

it's a bit unclear to me from the quote where gilbride references it as "a normal pedagogical approach" if it is basically a league-wide standard, or if it is an old-school or coughlin type thing and that there are alternative and more user-friendly ways to implement a new system. i've never coached so i have no idea.

but i can imagine the everything all at once approach being tough to handle, especially in the early goings. i hope it's just that because the alternative explanation is that the team has about 8 or 9 crappy starters on offense.
Predictability has been a concern  
hammock man : 8/22/2014 5:36 am : link
for years. Play calling has turned contortions to avoid the obvious. Nonetheless, too often it seems defenses have our number. It was time for a complete overhaul and nomenclature is part of that.
The new terminology  
stanlev : 8/22/2014 5:58 am : link
Many players in this offense are either new (Schwartz, Walton, Richburg, Jennings, Williams, Beckham, Fells, Davis) or young vets (Pugh, Moseley, Donnell, Robinson, Randle). The new terminology should not affect them adversely. and might even help them. Also the new terminology probably expresses the intricacies of the new offense with more clarity than could be expressed by using the old terminology.
Playcalling  
Mike fr Warwick : 8/22/2014 6:12 am : link
A combination of numbers of numbers and verbiage to inform and instruct. Personnel 3 (we) Formation (trips) Motion back to flat Protection (?) Route in (could signify routes for all 3 we)
Then there are true one word hurry up plays. Simple one Clock down the ball or another code word used to signify a series of plays.
Sounds hard but we all recall phone numbers lyrics or whatever all the time in our daily life.
We= wide reciever
So we get  
Mike fr Warwick : 8/22/2014 6:23 am : link
3 trips right ace split whiz in Xxx ( the protection call). MY rudimentary understanding of a call
The idea  
dorgan : 8/22/2014 7:26 am : link
was to start fresh and challenge the players. Get them out of their comfort zone and make them focus.
Coughlin has stated that concept from the day he hired McAdoo.

They look damned uncomfortable to me, so that part was a success.

It seems to me  
River Mike : 8/22/2014 7:47 am : link
that the verbiage must have consistent components in the variety of calls. So adding a component to a play (maybe motion by the TE) has a terminology component that is the same no matter what the base play. If you start scrapping that component because there was different terminology in the old system, you wind up with a bastardized system that may be even more confusing, especially for new players unfamiliar with the old system
Teams change OC's all the time and bring in new offenses  
The Natural : 8/22/2014 10:44 am : link
with different verbiages....Eli is a smart guy. How about executing the offense properly??
Back to the Corner