It just hit me but the Giants have the worst offensive line in the NFC East division imo.. It sucks really and Reese is mainly to blame for this. All the other Teams have focused on fortifying their Oline and each team has at least one stud or quality LT and more. Redskins Trent Williams, Eagles Jason Peters, and Cowboys Tyron Smith. Smh.. What do the Giants have at LT? All three teams have solid Olines, and imo that's where it all starts. It could be the main reason the Giants offense is struggling?? It's sad really because it not fair to Eli Manning and this new OC McAdoo. Eli doesn't have much time left for Reese to be experimenting and hoping this Oline he put together pans out.. Now I know it is what it is so I'm really hoping the Giants Oline can get it together and make something happen, but things don't look so good right now and the odds are against them..
For the line to be average the following must come true:
LT Will Beatty must have a bounce back year and play like he did in 2012. If he plays like he did in 2013 or worse is hurt and unproductive we are in for a long season.
LG Richburg (my predicted starter) is a rookie and he'll have growing pains but the kid is smart and he can move. He is on the small side so I'm sure he'll get bull rushed a bit but he'll learn.
OC Walton is coming back from some injuries but has some experience and has looked adequate so far. Lets hope he holds up and his experience helps out.
RG Schwartz was decent last year which is why we signed him and my gut tells me he'll be fine. He is big so I expect us to run right a lot.
RT Pugh had a decent rookie season and I expect an even better one this year as he has added muscle and experience now.
Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Schwartz-Pugh is my expected opening lineup for game 5 of the pre-season and they'll maybe play 2 series. They will start opening day and they are likely a better group than anything we saw last year.
If TE Donnell or Davis start they have to be an improvement in the blocking department compared to last year as well. So if this group can at least run and Eli doesn't turn it over we just have to hope our defense and solid special teams carry us early in the year to victories.
Brown can not play left tackle...bust?
We have bodies....but they have been as bad as last year...not sure what they do
...exactly right!
This mess has been a-comin' for several years now.
Many, many BBIers were a lot more distressed about it than Jerry Reese -- if we judge by the actions he has taken to address the O-line.
He has failed so far.
Not good.
Not pretty.
Are they really better with this group?. If Boothe were here, would he start.
The good news is that there is a real possibility that the current OL problems are more a function of a lack of chemistry than of talent. Most of them have never played together, and they are also learning a new offense. The combination of the two might make for some early struggles and ugly plays, followed by slow, but steady, improvement as the season progresses.
The problem is that in the interim they have to protect Eli, who basically can't move, either forward, and now apparently not even laterally to dodge the rush. If he gets hit enough, and sufficiently frustrated, he may start throwing it up for grabs in a desperate desire to try and make plays. He's done it before. Many times, especially last season.
As far as the Jets are concerned, I expect Rex to treat this like a regular season game, at least for the first half. That means lots of pressure on our suspect OL from his excellent front four, not only to harass Eli, but also to protect his depleted secondary.
I'm sure the first team offense will come out with a lot of fire given their struggles so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have a lot of success. The question is whether the OL can protect Eli long enough for him and the WRs to take advantage of the secondary of the Jets.
The bigger problem is LT. Beatty like many feared looks like he may not be ready physically. And even if he is what do we have there? He's also 30. Martin over OBjr and Richberg Should have been Reese's picks. Walton is coming back after a long layoff. Again. Who knows
Reese has fucked up this OL. Even if it's average is it a long term group. Doubtful. This line needs a lot more but you can't point out how badly Reese does with his drafts and his position group without silly excuses.
He ignores the OL for years compared to the DL, WR, and DBs. Problem is many of his high picks are gone.
If we are worried think what Cougin must be feeling.
To repeat my 2 cents yet again, I still think it was a major mistake to pass on Martin. If JR felt it too high to take a G (which I think is ridiculous if the player is that good)then he should have tried to swing a trade with someone hot for Beckham (was anyone?) and maybe ADD an extra pick for a change.
As a result of Reece's blunder this year, we will not be able to judge McAdoo's new offensive so no matter how bad it may look, we can't blame anyone but Reece.
JR needs to do something fast to upgrade not just one but at least 2 positions on the line if we are to have any chance this year. But to do that, it would show he made a mistake and I don't think he's man enough to admit that. So he'll force TC and Eli to go through the season much like what we saw last year and it won't be pretty.
Man up JR. Everybody makes mistakes even you. The fans will forgive you if you can just identify the error and do something good to fix it. Make a trade. Surely we have enough good depth at a few positions to trade one of our valued players so we can have a halfway decent oline.
I know, we hate to lose a valued player but we are in serious trouble and desperate times call for desperate actions. I'd gladly sacrifice our first round pick or a top valued player for a quality upgrade anywhere on our line!
Because if not.....we surely will see a repeat of 2013 and the fans will be robbed from seeing what a TC and Eli can do in a new offensive scheme.
Gonna have to sink or swim with this crew, I think.
If the team shits the bed this year, Reese, TC, McAdoo, etc. are all gone. The new administration will want all their draft assets in place.
And who would we trade with? Don't think teams are lining up to get rid of quality OL two weeks before the start of the regular season.
It's the NFL. Everybody has a chance at the playoffs going in.
Jerry and Brown are two other vets he brought in in FA and they suck. Schwartz is the only upgrade he provided with two potential Center upgrades. Clearly JR blew it.
You may be right about no one will want to give up a quality OL guy for us but that is why I'm saying we need to sacrifice a first round pick or a top player we have. It's the only move JR can make and I'll repeat that I doubt JR is man enough to do it.
By the way, this is the first year I have ever been posting in a negative light. I'm ALWAYS very optimistic and I don't mind losing as much many here at BBI. But I was excited to see what a new offense can do and our oline is clearly not good enough to give any offense a chance. AND JR clearly knew how bad the oline was coming into this season.
I have to disagree. Reese has not made OL a priority in the draft or FA until he was forced to. And when he had a chance with a high pick this year he passed on Martin to take Beckham.
Pugh was a first rounder... richburg a 2nd rounder... beatty a 2nd rounder...
We signed Baas... health fail
we just signed one of the top OG on the market... lets see how that goes but you hope to get a top tier guy...
We have maybe neglected 1 extra OL signing/draftee... which isnt much.
the issue is of the guys we have selected or taken, none have proven to be a stud. lets hope that changes.
and yes i agree our OL is the worst in the division... its just more a function of players chosen to be giants not being as good as we thought/hoped... not as much fully neglecting the posiition.
Blind faith in vets didnt help either.
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offensive linemen you mentioned is because they haven't been drafting high year in and year out. It's not Jerry Reese' drafting, it's because the better teams in the NFL don't get a crack at the great offensive linemen, it's just the way it is sometimes.
I have to disagree. Reese has not made OL a priority in the draft or FA until he was forced to. And when he had a chance with a high pick this year he passed on Martin to take Beckham.
Victor, even if we did draft Martin, people are talking about Tyron Smith, Trent Williams and Jason Peters. Martin would have been the 4th offensive tackle taken, and who knows how much higher they had Beckum rated.
Either way, last year, they took an offensive tackle in round 1, and this year an interior OL in round 2, so I'd say they are making a concerted effort to improve the offensive line.
At any rate, this was not going to be a 1 year fix IMO anyway. Hopefully we can solidify at least 80% of the line this year and continue to add quality players next year.
The quick/short drop passing should help the line and the O this year., as well.
- We saw what defenses did to us last year, when Hakeem Nicks decided to play "no-show"; they double and tripled teamed Victor Cruz. (Not to mention last year's FA mistake - Brandon Myers, who could not block and was never a Jimmy Graham type pass catching threat) -
So, he goes out and drafts a top shelf type lineman (Richburg) and "shot-guns it", picking up for FAs- Brown, Jerry, Schwartz, and Walton, hoping that at least two of these five are good enough to start. ( John Mara just about pulled his hair out, witnessing the disaster that was the O-line last year, and he might succeed with this year's version).
But, as an arm-chair GM, I would have done things a bit different - traded down and picked up Kelvin Benjamin and two #2s; AND held on to Boothe.
I don't have great confidence in Beatty given Pugh being given LT reps, and Beatty's mental makeup has always been a part of his woes. If Pugh is solid at LT, he likely stays there and Beatty's cut next Winter to get rid of the cost and cap hit.
This is also an opening for Richburg to win an OG gig, he's clearly pushing Mosley.
Use the paractice squad to evaluate and develop young guys with potential upside. Now with 10 available it should be easy to keep two, maybe three with new talent rotating in.
And then, depending on how things are going, you get to make a decision on Herman in October.
I don't have great confidence in Beatty given Pugh being given LT reps, and Beatty's mental makeup has always been a part of his woes. If Pugh is solid at LT, he likely stays there and Beatty's cut next Winter to get rid of the cost and cap hit.
This is also an opening for Richburg to win an OG gig, he's clearly pushing Mosley.
I wouldn't think tonight is going to be the best barometer for our offensive line considering the Jets front 7 is most likely one of the best in the NFL. I can almost garantee that the running game will look bad, but I just hope they could give Eli enough time, because their secondary is awful at the moment.
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Let's see if the synergy is improved after the recent shuffle, as it is clear they're concerned with the lack of performance from the unit. Schwartz is struggling without a solid LT next to him, which is a concern given he was put at LG to help Beatty.
I don't have great confidence in Beatty given Pugh being given LT reps, and Beatty's mental makeup has always been a part of his woes. If Pugh is solid at LT, he likely stays there and Beatty's cut next Winter to get rid of the cost and cap hit.
This is also an opening for Richburg to win an OG gig, he's clearly pushing Mosley.
I wouldn't think tonight is going to be the best barometer for our offensive line considering the Jets front 7 is most likely one of the best in the NFL. I can almost garantee that the running game will look bad, but I just hope they could give Eli enough time, because their secondary is awful at the moment.
To this point the OL has shown virtually zero, so when I say marker I mean show some life, some synergy, some positives that could portend the arrow might be pointing up.
With the moves he made in the off season to fix this line, if it doesn't pan out, how much longer can he be the GM? Especially if the Giants miss the playoffs, 5 out of the last 6 years? When was the last time the Giants had a losing record two years in a row? 10 years ago? Could be sweeping changes.....but I doubt it....this organization tends to maintain the status quo......they sometimes need a real slap to get on track again.....
I think this is too pessimistic.
Pugh taking snaps at LT has more to do with both Brewer and Brown being injured and out for this game (pretty sure that's the case, but could be wrong). The plan with Beatty is to give him 30 snaps, I think.
Beatty is being managed to get him ready to start game one. The Giants are counting on him, I think. Hopeful the line will look better as the guys get used to playing together. Also hopeful (and not unreasonable to think) that one of Richburg, Mosely and Jerry emerges.
I don't have great confidence in Beatty given Pugh being given LT reps, and Beatty's mental makeup has always been a part of his woes. If Pugh is solid at LT, he likely stays there and Beatty's cut next Winter to get rid of the cost and cap hit.
This is also an opening for Richburg to win an OG gig, he's clearly pushing Mosley.
Should have cut bait with Beatty this year. When Lewan was in range I kept hoping to see the Giants trade up for him. When the Titans took Lewan I hoped Martin was the pick. We got ODB instead who may turn out to be exceptional but it won't matter if the line cannot protect Eli.
OC- Travis Frederick (ok perhaps a reach but still a solid player)
OG/OT Zack Martin
The Cowboys OL should become a strength in the next few years
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Let's see if the synergy is improved after the recent shuffle, as it is clear they're concerned with the lack of performance from the unit. Schwartz is struggling without a solid LT next to him, which is a concern given he was put at LG to help Beatty.
I don't have great confidence in Beatty given Pugh being given LT reps, and Beatty's mental makeup has always been a part of his woes. If Pugh is solid at LT, he likely stays there and Beatty's cut next Winter to get rid of the cost and cap hit.
This is also an opening for Richburg to win an OG gig, he's clearly pushing Mosley.
Should have cut bait with Beatty this year. When Lewan was in range I kept hoping to see the Giants trade up for him. When the Titans took Lewan I hoped Martin was the pick. We got ODB instead who may turn out to be exceptional but it won't matter if the line cannot protect Eli.
I also wanted one of those two OL but knew they loved ODB, and Reese tends to put a high premium on WRs.
aquid, I'd say your position is part of the overall thought process, but I do know Beatty's not inspiring a ton of confidence either. As I said Richburg is making a push at OG, his play and the shuffle are part of the decision mesh.
Beatty's contract makes it imperative he is a solid performer. If Pugh makes an impact at LT, the calculus begins to change.
BTW, I think our OL will be better than Washington's this year (RG III won't last past October 31) and won't be as horrible as everyone on BBI fears. They'll improve week by week, barring catastrophic injury.
I'm more concerned about WR and TE than OL, frankly.
It's him reaching for Wilson, Holsey and others in the preceding years.
It's him reaching for Wilson, Holsey and others in the preceding years.
I don't know anyone at the time who would have called those players reaches, especially when you are picking last in each round. Plus, Wilson was just bad luck, plain and simple.
At the moment, the Giants do not have 5 starting offensive linemen as much as they are "seeking" 5 starting offensive linemen who can start.
It's not that we've missed a ton in the past as Smith, Manningham and Nicks were all home runs that fizzled because of injury. Right now we're essentially carrying the draft picks used to replace all of them (Beckham, Randle, Jernigan) and 2 of the 3 look like they could be misses and Beckham hasn't gotten on the field yet. The only time since the '07 season where we really had some continuity was '11 where Nicks and Mario had become acclimated and Cruz hit the ground running and provided a huge spark.
Injuries combined with positional values within our system drove a huge consumption of resources at one position and our returns currently look like shit. Coupled with the choice to risk the next wave of the offensive line to mid-round cluster drafting until the unit reached a breaking point.....the result is nearly the entire offensive roster was fucked up.
As of right now there just no way to tell what kind of shape we're in given the implementation of a new system.
The Redskins have a few guys that can do a pretty good job (Orakpo, Kerrigan and Hatcher if he is healthy), but both Eagles and Cowboys don't really have anybody to fear.
We applaud Reese and Co on the cap situation but rake him over the coals for OL neglect (there is some merit to the nay-sayers), however if Acid is correct as many of us hope then really the neglect was there but addressed in an economical fashion. There are only so many $$, FA and picks to go around...we have spent many on WRs ... had those been OLs we'd be saying Eli needs weapons....
I think there is no way to please everyone all the time or answer and fill all holes immediately.
The offensive talent in general on this team right now is somewhat scary and not in a good way.
Bullshit. Reese could have grabbed Max Unger instead of Sintim years ago. Unger is a great center who helped Seatlle win the Superbowl. Reese chose to sign Bass. Why couldn't he have drafted more OL instead of guys like Travis Beckum, Barden, Jernigan and Marcin Austin. Bit don't let facts get in the way that he doesn't like to draft OL high until the OL fell apart.
He drafted Randell high too. He didn't invest high picks early on his GM tenure on that unit and many of his high picks aren't on the team or look like middle of the road players at best.
He messed up and it's biting the team in the ass
I said Randle would be the best player of him and Wilson and sadly that is also true.
Reese learned from Accorsi and he learned the wrong lessons. He thinks he can rely on his OL coach to turn journeymen free agents into quality starters (just as McNally did). All the while, he spends premium draft picks on 'sexy' positions like CB's (which have been rendered useless because of the league rules on pass interference), WR's and guys who run REALLY fast.
Reese is to blame for the majority of the team's current woes. IMO Reese and Ross should be held accountable for the team's struggles this year.
Much more then Coughlin.