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Foles a good qb or just a product of system?

Essex : 8/22/2014 1:36 pm
Sanchez a career 55% QB completion has been lights out in preseason. 25 for 31 in preseason. He didn't change all of a sudden. This kind of leads me to believe, although it is obviously not conclusive evidence, that Foles is just a product of that system. Anyone think about this about this and what we are up against. In other words has Philly eliminated the need for a star qb in their system and can plug in cheap options, giving them a huge advantage in the salary cap.
whatever it is  
Jints in Carolina : 8/22/2014 1:37 pm : link
Foles has been good and that's all you can ask for.
I believe....  
BillKo : 8/22/2014 1:41 pm : link
product of a very easy and QB friendly system. There are no line calls.....does he even audibilize?

When do you see Foles ever throw a fast ball?

When he throws the tough seam pass which needs some whistle, he's nearly gotten Cellick his TE killed twice this year.

He throws a dump off to McCoy (great player) and he takes it like 25 yards for a TD, it's credited to Foles. Screens, to RB and WR's.....easy hitch routes. Fades to the corner. All finess throws.

I really do think, come regular season, you will see the good teams expose him and make things tougher.

Can he play in the league, of course. But he's not 27/2 good.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 1:42 pm : link
I think having the line he had/has and the fact that no one on it missed a game last year helped him immensely. As did having arguably the best RB in football. But I do think Foles is a legitimately good QB and believe that he'd still play well in different systems depending on the players around him.

But that's football. More often than not, players are products of their teammates.
If it is the system  
deadkurtrulz : 8/22/2014 1:42 pm : link
then the Giants need to adopt that system real quick. Like, right now !
Give me their OLine  
dep026 : 8/22/2014 1:42 pm : link
and I could even produce.

Not to mention they might have the best RB in football.
The other thing I noticed...  
BillKo : 8/22/2014 1:44 pm : link
and Collinsworth pointed this out last year, when he Foles feels the rush, he drops the ball and looks around, rather than staying focused down field.

Now, their OL is so good, it doesn't come into play that much, except against the good teams who can great pressure.
I also don't think.....  
BillKo : 8/22/2014 1:49 pm : link
Kelly's offense is something "brand new".

The Redskin's in RG3's first year were already running their bread and butter play, that zone run. Now, the Eagles like the Skins that year do it fabulously. The Pats dabbled in running that hurry up when the got inside the five yard line going back three years ago.

I think the thing that really helps the Eagles is the pace they play at....you get a lot of "gimmes" because defenses are back on their heels or tired.

The downside, your defense will constantly be playing a large number of plays.
But what about the Sanchez completion %  
Essex : 8/22/2014 1:49 pm : link
That has always been terrible and three straight games he has been amazing in that category. Makes me think about Foles differently. Not that Foles isnt a good qb, but that the evidence that he is great comes from a system that allows Sanchez to do what he is doing.
Doesn't Matter  
thevett : 8/22/2014 1:50 pm : link
Fantasy Football wis
.  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 1:52 pm : link
Sanchez is playing against backups. Foles isn't. I'd take Sanchez' preseason numbers with a grain of salt.
I don't think Sanchez.....  
BillKo : 8/22/2014 1:53 pm : link
was all that bad, he was in a tough situation with, well, the Jets. That's enough said.

It's an easy system, Sanchez has some talent, he plays well.

It's also preaseason, where everything is vanilla.
I think Sanchez might be better than he displayed with the Jets.  
Curtis in VA : 8/22/2014 2:00 pm : link
That place is a circus.

Was kinda hoping the Giants would pick him up as a backup and maybe, if lightning strikes, a future starter.
A couple of points:  
Section331 : 8/22/2014 2:05 pm : link
It's important to keep in mind that Sanchez was playing against 2nd & 3rd team defenses, and that he was hamstrung with very little talent at the skill positions with the Jets.

That said, Kelly's system is designed to be QB friendly. Increasing the pace reduces the number of subs a defense can make and makes it harder for them to adjust to offensive formations. All of that helps a QB greatly.

I think Foles is a good QB playing in a system ideally suited for him.
RE: .  
Essex : 8/22/2014 2:05 pm : link
In comment 11819568 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Sanchez is playing against backups. Foles isn't. I'd take Sanchez' preseason numbers with a grain of salt.


If you watch the games, not criticizing (but dont know if you had), Sanchez has made many more difficult throws than Foles and has been better. True, as you point out, he has been playing against backups, but he is also playing with backups.

Moreover, the Eagles starting offense was putrid against the Bears and largely bad against the Pats until about 4 minutes left in the first half. Brady exited and their backup turned the ball over at NE 30 and eagles cashed in. Then, the eagles got the ball back and drove a end of fist half. But before it, the offense was not very good.

We will see and that OLine is excellent and makes them contenders. Just had a random thought about Sanchez while trying to self evaluate the Eagles and thought I would get other people's opinions.
I watched him college... there were games/moments  
Giantology : 8/22/2014 2:16 pm : link
where he showed the ability to be a good QB.. just not consistently. Seems he's finally put it together. I do think that his #s last year were extreme and I have my doubts about him repeating that sort of thing, but we shall see
How was  
Bill in UT : 8/22/2014 2:24 pm : link
Vick's completion percentage? The big thing about Foles is that he doesn't make stupid throws
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 8/22/2014 2:28 pm : link
In comment 11819591 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 11819568 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Sanchez is playing against backups. Foles isn't. I'd take Sanchez' preseason numbers with a grain of salt.



If you watch the games, not criticizing (but dont know if you had), Sanchez has made many more difficult throws than Foles and has been better. True, as you point out, he has been playing against backups, but he is also playing with backups.

Moreover, the Eagles starting offense was putrid against the Bears and largely bad against the Pats until about 4 minutes left in the first half. Brady exited and their backup turned the ball over at NE 30 and eagles cashed in. Then, the eagles got the ball back and drove a end of fist half. But before it, the offense was not very good.

We will see and that OLine is excellent and makes them contenders. Just had a random thought about Sanchez while trying to self evaluate the Eagles and thought I would get other people's opinions.


It's just a small sample is all. I think Sanchez probably is a little better in actuality than the perception of him is so I don't know how much of it is even a system thing but it's certainly possible that he fits well in it.

It's just hard to tell because there are so many factors. With Foles, is it because of the system, his protection, McCoy, etc.. with Sanchez is it a good systemic fit, playing against lesser competition, etc. It's hard to really pinpoint stuff like that but I do believe Foles is a solid QB. But he's also one of those guys who I don't think can really overcome not having good pass protection. Not a ton of guys can, but like I've said in other threads, guys like Luck, Rodgers, Ben, Kap, Newton, Wilson, etc.. they can extend plays which helps them quite a bit.
Give Foles our Oline  
BSIMatt : 8/22/2014 2:34 pm : link
and RBs from 2013 and see the numbers he puts up.
RE: Give Foles our Oline  
Big Blue '56 : 8/22/2014 2:35 pm : link
In comment 11819653 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
and RBs from 2013 and see the numbers he puts up.


Brady and Peyton too
Foles is a good QB playing in a system that fits him.  
Mike from Ohio : 8/22/2014 2:38 pm : link
It is very similar to what he ran at Arizona. He is an accurate passer and he doesn't generally force the ball when it is not there. As many others have said - I agree he is not consistently a 27/2 QB, but that system is not so good you can just plug anyone in and they will put up those kinds of numbers. Mike Vick couldn't.

Sanchez is now also in a system that fits him more, and he is playing against backups. He would struggle more against the ones. But he also has some talent. He was largely hamstrung by a team with no offensive talent and a coaching staff that didn't give a shit about the offense because it didn't demonstrate his personal genius as D coordinator.
Yea its hard to tell with Foles  
eclipz928 : 8/22/2014 3:01 pm : link
because he is behind one of the better offensive lines in the NFL and has a RB that opens up so many things in the offense. I tend to lean towards just "average" - mostly because he seems to be pretty easily flustered when he's pressured.
everyone said Philip  
pjcas18 : 8/22/2014 3:25 pm : link
Rivers was a product of Norv Turners system and/or Ladanian Tomlinson and he'd be average otherwise with his weak arm and limp-wristed lamar latrell throwing style.

Last year with no Turner, no Tomlinson, an old Gates and a bunch of young or no-name receivers Rivers had one of the best statistical seasons of his career.

What is it? the weather?

Some guys are good QB's, blaming or attributing systems for their success is USUALLY a haters way out of admitting the guy is a good QB.

I think we still don't know about Foles, but not because of his system, but because the sample isn't big enough.
Football is a TEAM game  
RB^2 : 8/22/2014 3:50 pm : link
Whatever the Eagles' offense has been doing since Kelly got there, that unit has been pretty effective.
I personally wasn't trying to suggest  
BSIMatt : 8/22/2014 3:59 pm : link
Foles was a product of his offensive line/McCoy. I was just pointing out that it is a hell of a foundation to start with for any quarterback, and to contrast that foundation with what was provided to Eli in 2013.
Peyton  
pjcas18 : 8/22/2014 4:03 pm : link
and I'm not comparing Peyton and Eli, lost his all-world LT week 1.

lost his center mid-season.

Aaron rodgers had a worse o-line.

Brady didn't have a special o-line and the offensive skill players they put on the field with him was criminal.

The QB is just as responsible as is the OC, and the O-line, etc. they need to work together.

At least if they suck this year we can eliminate Gilbride (one of them).
RE: Foles is a good QB playing in a system that fits him.  
BigBlueinChicago : 8/22/2014 4:47 pm : link
In comment 11819661 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
It is very similar to what he ran at Arizona. He is an accurate passer and he doesn't generally force the ball when it is not there. As many others have said - I agree he is not consistently a 27/2 QB, but that system is not so good you can just plug anyone in and they will put up those kinds of numbers. Mike Vick couldn't.


Accuracy was the biggest difference between the two QB's, which is what made the Eagles suddenly look like a different team once he took over permanently as the starter.

Vick for his career has never been an tremendously accurate thrower of the ball. Sure he would have a good game here and there, but he would eventually revert to his averages.

After the first two games last year, Vick barely completed 50% of his passes.

Foles however, is an accurate thrower who is generally not a huge risk taker, but will go downfield if it's there. So those same plays that were initially incomplete passes, when Vick was the QB became completions with Foles in there. Those turnovers with Vick trying to "make a play" became additional offensive plays as Foles would live to fight another play.

As you mention, you can't just plug in any player to that offense.
I watched Foles last night. He looked pretty decent  
Jimmy Googs : 8/22/2014 6:21 pm : link
and very much like last year. He doesn't force it. He throws a lot into areas/space where his receiver is heading and expects his guy to run and go get it.

Probably not the greatest arm strength in the league, but he has nice touch and does not show to be erratic.
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