get killed for saying this, but if Coughlin wasn't the head coach, and if Eli wasn't a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, Nassib may have earned the starting job on this team.
This is really stupid - and I've been both harsh on Eli over the previous year and a half and a supporter of Nassib.
The cloud appears to have been lifted. You can see a young QB when he rushes and makes mistakes and you know he's just not sure what to do in certain situations and they end up looking terrible. Last week Nassib greatly progressed and this week he took off. He was operating the offense the way it is supposed to run and he was moving in the pocket and outside of it exactly the way it's supposed to be done.
Think of the QBs who have been in this system, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and aging Brett Favre. All three moved well laterally, have compact throwing motions and throw well on the go. The onus on a monster OL lessens when your QB is running waggles and getting on the edge to find his targets. Thats what was most telling to me last night. Nassib had the same level of protection as Eli but his ability to pull the ball down, get outside and make a throw was simply superior to Eli's and that's an age/athleticism thing.
This system is better suited to a guy with Nassib's skill set. NO I am not declaring him a better QB overall but he's a better fit for this scheme by far and I think if Eli doesn't light it up, this is Nassib's team next year and you see a major shift in how this offense runs.
get killed for saying this, but if Coughlin wasn't the head coach, and if Eli wasn't a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, Nassib may have earned the starting job on this team.
I initially had the same feeling with how Nassib broke out and I killed for having no touch on passes, especially short ones.
However, I thought when Eli had time, when he did, he hit guys perfectly, especially during the 2 minute drive. Now the 2 minute drive was interesting because the routes are usually routes designed to get the ball out quickly and are close to the sidelines, or have the sideline in mind to stop the clock.
Come back to JJ - 5 yards
Hitch to JJ - 9 yards
Square out to Cruz - 16 yards
Int but over ruled; Looked like a roll right- come back route, but Cruz didn't work back.
Sail route to Cruz
Inc. throw away. Again sideline routes ran.
Roll Left-Cruz Arrow route to left sideline (legal pick)
Penalty false start
TD to RR comeback in the endzone.
They didn't work to the TE or hit the seem or even throw deep. Everything was sideline associated routes or hitches, and comebacks. We moved the pocket to help, but this is why I am interested to see how cruz does in this offense and how this system could suit him better.
I want to see more of these associated routes. We went from nothing clicking to 1 stellar drive where things clicked. I like the routes associated in this 2 minute drill and hope we utilize these passing concepts when we are NOT in 2 minute mode
but it's been three games. He played well in the preseason opener too (as I pointed out when people were slamming him after Steelers game).
Pros for Nassib...he fits this offense better...he's younger and cheaper...he's going to get better...he can extend a play when the OL breaks down (and it will break down a lot this year).
I think this is a rebuilding club. It's why I'd go with youth when possible...why I'd risk McManus over Brown, Washington/Parker/Harris over Jernigan, etc.
The cost/benefits of having another QB over the expensive Eli is a different discussion altogether - and one that may gain traction if Eli struggles once again this year. Whether Nassib is that guy, I don't know (and think it's far too premature for this discussion since I think Eli will bounce back and have a relatively successful year).
Nassib is playing against 2's and 3's, not the starters Â
Big, big difference. Hell you could say the same thing about Painter. He has looked better against the 2's and 3's than Eli against the 1's also. It boils down to our OL, WRs, and TE's versus other teams 1's.
I won't argue that Nassib has outplayed Eli in the preseason. However, Eli has been playing against the ones, while Nassib has had maybe four pass attempts against ones? It is silly to say that Nassib would be challenging for the job if not for Eli's superbowls, because we have no idea how Nassib would hold up against first team defenses.
Most informed Giants said that Nassib was a 2 year QB that Â
I thought of the same thing before the 2 minute drive. So I agree that could be the case. However, the 2 minute drive showed me when he did have blocking, when we did move the pocket, he made plays. Those type of routes associated in the 2 minute fit Eli perfectly, and I think more of those routes in this offense can help him.
Just finished the first half. I didn't think JPP looked as bad as I've been reading here. It wasn't all bullrushes that went nowhere. And Jernigan did make 3 catches. I'm still realy frustrated with Eli though. He got stripped twice while scrambling and easily could have been picked on that short rollout the Cruz. A little less luck and he could have turned it over 3 times in the half. He's gotta play smarter than that.
Of course, if Eli struggles for his third consecutive season, people will have to come to terms with that reality. But that's changing your original tune. Which was about what's happening now, not might be happening in week 12.
But it didn't.. Just like Asante S., based on the quality of the player should have picked off the ball, which he has done throughout his career, but it didn't. Strahan says Eli falls on his on in practice, so by all accounts, he should have been sacked, but he didn't.
The fact remains the routes and passing concepts used in the 2 minute passing is what fits Eli and even Cruz. If Ben M. is serious about meeting with the QBs and asking their input then I hope we add a lot more of these concepts.
offense.With the exception of rolling Eli out(dumb move),we haven't seen many 3 step drops, passes to the RBs (1 to Jennings last night), up tempo(except for 2 minute drill which is Eli's wheelhouse-more please Coach McAdoo). I guess Connor, who has watched them practice, can clue us in as to if this is it or if come September 8th we will be seeing numerous plays we haven't seen in pre-season!
even if he has a solid season.. I would expect 12-15..
That's a big IF.. Eli will be 35 in Jan. in 2 years when his contract expires. So do we want to re-sign a 35 year old QB or is that the perfect age to part ways?
and it has nothing to do with Eli and Nassib's performance. But I think the position like other positions now deem it necessary. Just looking at GB last season. I mean scouring the streets for a quality backup during the season is near impossible.
Eli showed something last night he has shown time and time again his entire career. He took a beating and rebounded and played great at the end. Could Nassib do that? Could he do what Eli did in the SF playoff game to get that win? From a couple of preseason quarters under decent protection how could you possibly know?
Regarding Eli movement in the pocket, I know he can do it. In 2011 he was amazing under pressure in the pocket. Forget about the scramblers. Eli was off the charts that year. He does look skittish at times right now, but that is what it does to you.
It is not about how you look when things are going right. It's how you respond in the face of adversity. What I saw from Eli last night was very encouraging responding like he did after such a brutal start running for his life. To me that is much more meaningful than making good throws to open receivers under decent protection.
Hopefully Nassib will be our QB of the future. But for now he's in a great position to learn from one of the good ones.
If Nassib can continue to develop i would want Eli to start the remainder of his contract and by the 2016-2017 season Nassib maybe our franchise QB needed to continue chasing championships. Eli has as much to prove as Nassib these following 2 seasons. 20+mil in cap space on one player is the difference in some championship rosters.
he's immobile and doesn't have a rocket arm. So unless you're taking into account the mental part of the game and the ability to make huge throws in huge spots, he's going to lose in a comparison at least superficially.
Greg Buttle- was right to say don't understand designed roll-out to the right because it limits the number of potential pass receivers. Eli seems uncomfortable and Nassib throws short completion.
Jerry- inconsistent at RG. Gets tossed like rag doll by Richardson but good overall pass protection and, surprisingly, pulled and blocked his man 100% of the time.
get killed for saying this, but if Coughlin wasn't the head coach, and if Eli wasn't a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, Nassib may have earned the starting job on this team.
Meh, that's reasonable except that Eli is a 2X Super Bowl MVP that carried his team on his back all the way to another ring in 2011. Considering the offensive line woes (even in 2011), you'd be crazy to name Nassib the starter. ANY coach would give a proven QB time to get the system down. If he's playing like crap mid-season , then it may be time to put Nassib in. Until then, you have to give Eli a long rope.
Agreed. But the Giants will have a major decision after this year. Eli is due $17M next season. The cap hit for cutting him is $2-$3M IIRC. Nassib is younger and more mobile. Since paying Eli $17M isn't an option, the Giants either have to extend him or cut him. Do you want to extend a 34 year old immobile QB, especially since doing so means you almost certainly lose Nassib? Everything depends on how Eli plays, but I think we'll know the answer to this question by Halloween.
JPP was flat-out useless against both the pass and the run. Moore looked way better, albeit in the second half. Beatty played at an acceptable if unimpressive level, except for the one total whiff that allowed the Eli hit and fumble. Beatty actually looked better after Schwartz left and the Richburg substitution. Eli's two-minute successful series at the end of the first half was aided enormously by timeouts for penalties and injuries, slowing everything down. Would he have had enough time otherwise? Anyway, it would not have happened at all but for what looked to me like a bad call reversing a Jet interception of an Eli pass at the side-line that would have ended that Giant drive just as it began.
and he is slinging instead of throwing and it allows dbs to jump routes because there's no zip. Right now Nassib is looking bounds above Eli in this new offense. He's mobile and he can rocket the ball.
I'm not saying Eli is done but he is not the best QB in NY right now. Eli is hearing footsteps and his throws are showing it.
If TC wanted to know the truth he would alternate Manning and Nassib so there's no excuses about going against 1's. If Nassib is better I'm fine with trading Manning for a franchise left tackle. Id rather be ahead of the curve then behind it and trade him before his high value expires.
RE: I love Eli but I'm worried. His macanics are off Â
...If Nassib is better I'm fine with trading Manning for a franchise left tackle. Id rather be ahead of the curve then behind it and trade him before his high value expires.
Well that's a safe thing to say since you have a 100% chance of NEVER being proven wrong because there is a ZERO% chance the Giants trade Eli this year.
Agree on eli...if I say those things I get ripped...
I think eli is better qb still...nassib moves faster
and thinks fast and reacts...he alsois more accurate
with his throws. kay be better suited for This offense.
if eli isnt better by 4th game...we need to adjust. ..
Oline has to be priority now... I do believe when eli
gets beckum ..Washington and parker in mix.
it will be better along w running game.
If eli looks bad 1st 4 weeks ..tc better be.
at least sitting eli and putting in nassib to
access problem. Eli hasbbeen bad short
passer and cant move well...if oline dont gell
expect lots of ints and fumbles by eli....
as ive said...parcells would have benched eli.
tc doesnt have the balls
2 weeks ago, Nassib in practice was god awful from all accounts in practice. Painter looked like the 2nd QB, and now boom! He's ideal for McAdoo's offense, he's ideal for this line, he is better than Eli.
Simma down people. We saw Eli throw the ball really well when given time. The near INT was an awful decision, where you hope he just throws it away next time. But last week he threw the deep ball accurately. He hit Cruz 3 times really nice in stride, and his TD pass was just perfect. Moved his feet well and threw a strike.
I dont know if eli is going to succeed with this offense. I do think that if we want any chance of winning this year, he will be the QB to do so. If the OL shits the bed, like it did last year the majority of this preseason.... we arent winning anything anyways. I dont think Nassib makes this team better regardless.
I guess I am in the minority, but I thought Eli looked pretty good Â
When given decent time he was hitting people, he moved around in the pocket (for example the TD to Randle), and he executed a few roll outs. I thought he threw it well. The fumbles suck and need to be corrected, but then again so does the OL who forgot to block on those plays.
Nassib as starter now I've heard it all. Sure he's looked good in a couple of games but that was against 2nd and 3rd stringers. This is also the same guy who was passed up by Curtis freaking painter a couple weeks ago. Fix the oline and Eli will be fine
RE: man is there a lot of stupid around here lately Â
I was saying that at ota's ...people thought I was nuts...somee things puzzling me....eli never was a short passer...screen player...ect..
they bring in mac w system not eli like...they didnt build line for this..
swartz isnt athletic..nor anyone on line...except C, s...and we got 3.
Eli can do good if we adjust and we have a good line.
te wasnt addressed much...I think the guys we got will work..
but we have worse te coach...a gift from mara...so eli trying to
get used to system has shuffling line..no te or rb blockers and
he will be pressured evdry play....recepy for disaster. ...
maybe this is maras way to phase out eli...to his credit he hasnt
had the best wrs.....nassib did...when he gets 6...he will be
very improved
If eli can have d giving him short field and keeping
opposing teams off field and low scores. ..we can
win a few close games and give time to gell...and
make up for some ints he will get.
problem I have. ..the d so far has been underwhelming.
I expected more blitzes and ints...fewell still worries me..
we need shutdown d to win division
we get down 2 scores i dont see eli getting win
RE: man is there a lot of stupid around here lately Â
Nassib as starter now I've heard it all. Sure he's looked good in a couple of games but that was against 2nd and 3rd stringers. This is also the same guy who was passed up by Curtis freaking painter a couple weeks ago. Fix the oline and Eli will be fine
I agree that Nassib is not ready to be the starter. And I have fully supported the pick since it was made. What he needed to do was cement the #2 QB position so we don't have to carry three QBs. And he has done that. He has shown a lot of poise, arm strength, mobility, and some surprising accuracy.
As far as Eli is concerned, there is no question that he will improve with a better OL. We saw that with the last drive of the first half. But the OL will have to improve a lot more given his immobility. And that isn't likely, at least as it's currently constituted. Eli also appears to be more conscious of the rush, and less able to move laterally to avoid rushers.
We'll know a lot more about what to do with Eli after this season by Halloween.
get killed for saying this, but if Coughlin wasn't the head coach, and if Eli wasn't a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, Nassib may have earned the starting job on this team.
I was killed for saying something similar to that even before the Jets game.
One guy went ballistic.
I've been as hard on Eli as I've ever been these past couple weeks. Â
But to be honest, I thought the few times he actually had any semblance of pass protection, he did fine. The throw he forced to Cruz that was picked but didn't count because the player was out was the type of mistake he just seems to never stop being able to make.. he also gets stripped too often and needs to protect the football. But. I came out of last night feeling slightly better about Eli. Not much. But a little.
Nassib does look good, though. Even though many guys here were sure it was an awful pick and that he'll never be good.
except for the Jets game, Nassib has come in at the end of games and pulled them out. {Buffalo. Indy, Pitt]
In the Jets game, he was even more impressive.
I agree with you. He may be special.
I would love to see Nassib play in a REAL game first and foremost Â
But that would mean that Eli was hurt OR playing beyond terrible. Or mopping up at the end of a game though for some reason I doubt we'll have many blowouts favoring us.
The cloud appears to have been lifted. You can see a young QB when he rushes and makes mistakes and you know he's just not sure what to do in certain situations and they end up looking terrible. Last week Nassib greatly progressed and this week he took off. He was operating the offense the way it is supposed to run and he was moving in the pocket and outside of it exactly the way it's supposed to be done.
Think of the QBs who have been in this system, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and aging Brett Favre. All three moved well laterally, have compact throwing motions and throw well on the go. The onus on a monster OL lessens when your QB is running waggles and getting on the edge to find his targets. Thats what was most telling to me last night. Nassib had the same level of protection as Eli but his ability to pull the ball down, get outside and make a throw was simply superior to Eli's and that's an age/athleticism thing.
This system is better suited to a guy with Nassib's skill set. NO I am not declaring him a better QB overall but he's a better fit for this scheme by far and I think if Eli doesn't light it up, this is Nassib's team next year and you see a major shift in how this offense runs.
This is really stupid - and I've been both harsh on Eli over the previous year and a half and a supporter of Nassib.
Think of the QBs who have been in this system, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and aging Brett Favre. All three moved well laterally, have compact throwing motions and throw well on the go. The onus on a monster OL lessens when your QB is running waggles and getting on the edge to find his targets. Thats what was most telling to me last night. Nassib had the same level of protection as Eli but his ability to pull the ball down, get outside and make a throw was simply superior to Eli's and that's an age/athleticism thing.
This system is better suited to a guy with Nassib's skill set. NO I am not declaring him a better QB overall but he's a better fit for this scheme by far and I think if Eli doesn't light it up, this is Nassib's team next year and you see a major shift in how this offense runs.
I initially had the same feeling with how Nassib broke out and I killed for having no touch on passes, especially short ones.
However, I thought when Eli had time, when he did, he hit guys perfectly, especially during the 2 minute drive. Now the 2 minute drive was interesting because the routes are usually routes designed to get the ball out quickly and are close to the sidelines, or have the sideline in mind to stop the clock.
Come back to JJ - 5 yards
Hitch to JJ - 9 yards
Square out to Cruz - 16 yards
Int but over ruled; Looked like a roll right- come back route, but Cruz didn't work back.
Sail route to Cruz
Inc. throw away. Again sideline routes ran.
Roll Left-Cruz Arrow route to left sideline (legal pick)
Penalty false start
TD to RR comeback in the endzone.
They didn't work to the TE or hit the seem or even throw deep. Everything was sideline associated routes or hitches, and comebacks. We moved the pocket to help, but this is why I am interested to see how cruz does in this offense and how this system could suit him better.
I want to see more of these associated routes. We went from nothing clicking to 1 stellar drive where things clicked. I like the routes associated in this 2 minute drill and hope we utilize these passing concepts when we are NOT in 2 minute mode
but it's been three games. He played well in the preseason opener too (as I pointed out when people were slamming him after Steelers game).
Pros for Nassib...he fits this offense better...he's younger and cheaper...he's going to get better...he can extend a play when the OL breaks down (and it will break down a lot this year).
I think this is a rebuilding club. It's why I'd go with youth when possible...why I'd risk McManus over Brown, Washington/Parker/Harris over Jernigan, etc.
The cost/benefits of having another QB over the expensive Eli is a different discussion altogether - and one that may gain traction if Eli struggles once again this year. Whether Nassib is that guy, I don't know (and think it's far too premature for this discussion since I think Eli will bounce back and have a relatively successful year).
It pains me to say this.
And I may be DEAD wrong.
But my gut tells me many of you will be singing a different tune by Week 12.
And as Joey points out...he can slide away from pressure. When Eli starts doing that, he looks like a clusterfuck.
Of course, if Eli struggles for his third consecutive season, people will have to come to terms with that reality. But that's changing your original tune. Which was about what's happening now, not might be happening in week 12.
But it didn't.. Just like Asante S., based on the quality of the player should have picked off the ball, which he has done throughout his career, but it didn't. Strahan says Eli falls on his on in practice, so by all accounts, he should have been sacked, but he didn't.
The fact remains the routes and passing concepts used in the 2 minute passing is what fits Eli and even Cruz. If Ben M. is serious about meeting with the QBs and asking their input then I hope we add a lot more of these concepts.
or
Eli at $17 million?
That's a big IF.. Eli will be 35 in Jan. in 2 years when his contract expires. So do we want to re-sign a 35 year old QB or is that the perfect age to part ways?
Regarding Eli movement in the pocket, I know he can do it. In 2011 he was amazing under pressure in the pocket. Forget about the scramblers. Eli was off the charts that year. He does look skittish at times right now, but that is what it does to you.
It is not about how you look when things are going right. It's how you respond in the face of adversity. What I saw from Eli last night was very encouraging responding like he did after such a brutal start running for his life. To me that is much more meaningful than making good throws to open receivers under decent protection.
Hopefully Nassib will be our QB of the future. But for now he's in a great position to learn from one of the good ones.
Yeah, because D'Brickshaw Ferguson is chopped liver.
Beatty- gets beaten to inside.
Bennett Jackson- good gunner on punt coverage.
Patterson- pretty much invisible IMO.
Greg Buttle- was right to say don't understand designed roll-out to the right because it limits the number of potential pass receivers. Eli seems uncomfortable and Nassib throws short completion.
Jerry- inconsistent at RG. Gets tossed like rag doll by Richardson but good overall pass protection and, surprisingly, pulled and blocked his man 100% of the time.
James- poor game.
Conner- missed some blocks.
Quote:
get killed for saying this, but if Coughlin wasn't the head coach, and if Eli wasn't a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, Nassib may have earned the starting job on this team.
Meh, that's reasonable except that Eli is a 2X Super Bowl MVP that carried his team on his back all the way to another ring in 2011. Considering the offensive line woes (even in 2011), you'd be crazy to name Nassib the starter. ANY coach would give a proven QB time to get the system down. If he's playing like crap mid-season , then it may be time to put Nassib in. Until then, you have to give Eli a long rope.
Agreed. But the Giants will have a major decision after this year. Eli is due $17M next season. The cap hit for cutting him is $2-$3M IIRC. Nassib is younger and more mobile. Since paying Eli $17M isn't an option, the Giants either have to extend him or cut him. Do you want to extend a 34 year old immobile QB, especially since doing so means you almost certainly lose Nassib? Everything depends on how Eli plays, but I think we'll know the answer to this question by Halloween.
I'm not saying Eli is done but he is not the best QB in NY right now. Eli is hearing footsteps and his throws are showing it.
If TC wanted to know the truth he would alternate Manning and Nassib so there's no excuses about going against 1's. If Nassib is better I'm fine with trading Manning for a franchise left tackle. Id rather be ahead of the curve then behind it and trade him before his high value expires.
Well that's a safe thing to say since you have a 100% chance of NEVER being proven wrong because there is a ZERO% chance the Giants trade Eli this year.
I think eli is better qb still...nassib moves faster
and thinks fast and reacts...he alsois more accurate
with his throws. kay be better suited for This offense.
if eli isnt better by 4th game...we need to adjust. ..
Oline has to be priority now... I do believe when eli
gets beckum ..Washington and parker in mix.
it will be better along w running game.
at least sitting eli and putting in nassib to
access problem. Eli hasbbeen bad short
passer and cant move well...if oline dont gell
expect lots of ints and fumbles by eli....
as ive said...parcells would have benched eli.
tc doesnt have the balls
Simma down people. We saw Eli throw the ball really well when given time. The near INT was an awful decision, where you hope he just throws it away next time. But last week he threw the deep ball accurately. He hit Cruz 3 times really nice in stride, and his TD pass was just perfect. Moved his feet well and threw a strike.
I dont know if eli is going to succeed with this offense. I do think that if we want any chance of winning this year, he will be the QB to do so. If the OL shits the bed, like it did last year the majority of this preseason.... we arent winning anything anyways. I dont think Nassib makes this team better regardless.
I think Eli and the offense will be fine.
Agree in principle ... but need to do more than fix the oline ... need Beckham on the field AND a TE
they bring in mac w system not eli like...they didnt build line for this..
swartz isnt athletic..nor anyone on line...except C, s...and we got 3.
Eli can do good if we adjust and we have a good line.
te wasnt addressed much...I think the guys we got will work..
but we have worse te coach...a gift from mara...so eli trying to
get used to system has shuffling line..no te or rb blockers and
he will be pressured evdry play....recepy for disaster. ...
maybe this is maras way to phase out eli...to his credit he hasnt
had the best wrs.....nassib did...when he gets 6...he will be
very improved
opposing teams off field and low scores. ..we can
win a few close games and give time to gell...and
make up for some ints he will get.
problem I have. ..the d so far has been underwhelming.
I expected more blitzes and ints...fewell still worries me..
we need shutdown d to win division
we get down 2 scores i dont see eli getting win
I agree that Nassib is not ready to be the starter. And I have fully supported the pick since it was made. What he needed to do was cement the #2 QB position so we don't have to carry three QBs. And he has done that. He has shown a lot of poise, arm strength, mobility, and some surprising accuracy.
As far as Eli is concerned, there is no question that he will improve with a better OL. We saw that with the last drive of the first half. But the OL will have to improve a lot more given his immobility. And that isn't likely, at least as it's currently constituted. Eli also appears to be more conscious of the rush, and less able to move laterally to avoid rushers.
We'll know a lot more about what to do with Eli after this season by Halloween.
I was killed for saying something similar to that even before the Jets game.
One guy went ballistic.
Nassib does look good, though. Even though many guys here were sure it was an awful pick and that he'll never be good.
In the Jets game, he was even more impressive.
I agree with you. He may be special.
Think of the QBs who have been in this system, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and aging Brett Favre. All three moved well laterally, have compact throwing motions and throw well on the go. The onus on a monster OL lessens when your QB is running waggles and getting on the edge to find his targets. Thats what was most telling to me last night. Nassib had the same level of protection as Eli but his ability to pull the ball down, get outside and make a throw was simply superior to Eli's and that's an age/athleticism thing.
This system is better suited to a guy with Nassib's skill set. NO I am not declaring him a better QB overall but he's a better fit for this scheme by far and I think if Eli doesn't light it up, this is Nassib's team next year and you see a major shift in how this offense runs.
good post Joey.