With Zack Martin and Richburg, we'd have a pair of excellent young starting guards. Without him, we face the possibility of Brandon Moseley starting all year. I don't care how great Beckham is, without protection, Eli will never get him the ball. Drafting o-line in the first two rounds was justified given the historic collapse of our o-line last year. It just irks me that Martin was there and we went for a wide receiver. Seems like Reese always goes for the flashy player over the solid player in the first round (last year was the exception with Pugh and it turned out well). A line right now of Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Martin-Pugh would give me a lot more confidence and hope for the season. Not sure I can forgive Reese for this one.
...much, much worse!
{:-(
I will agree that Jerry deserves some grief. This team seems short on talent and that is in part due to poor drafting and some really bad luck. Baas and Snee fell off cliffs before they were expected too. Hell...maybe Eli is in early decline as well.
Anyway....I saw some good things yesterday in the game. Nassib looks decent and Beatty should be ok for us at LT. Unless Philly takes a leap forward I think this team still has a shot for the division if they can avoid injury.
It amazes me how many conclusions people have made this preseason.
Well, actually it doesn't. It is just a polite way from calling most here fucking morons.
It amazes me how many conclusions people have made this preseason.
Well, actually it doesn't. It is just a polite way from calling most here fucking morons.
As usual we're getting the 20/20 hindsight routine. In this case, however, the hindsight is myopic and comes from badly misinformed opinion.
...they would have taken both?
If they went with Martin, who's to say they don't target some other position in the second round?
It amazes me how many conclusions people have made this preseason.
Well, actually it doesn't. It is just a polite way from calling most here fucking morons.
So you don't think the last year and a half is an adequate sample size?
What I don't understand is how we fooled ourselves into thinking Snee would be healthy enough to play. I think there was some wishful thinking (and perhaps nepotism) happening there when what we needed was a cold, analytical evaluation, the kind that the GM should be providing.
Whoever called me a moron should be ashamed of himself. Before posting on message boards, maybe you should acquire some social skills.
Can't forgive Reese? You fucking schmuck.
Offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds would have caused an avalanche of criticism on BBI.
Don't forget Clint Sintim over Max Unger
What I don't understand is how we fooled ourselves into thinking Snee would be healthy enough to play. I think there was some wishful thinking (and perhaps nepotism) happening there when what we needed was a cold, analytical evaluation, the kind that the GM should be providing.
Whoever called me a moron should be ashamed of himself. Before posting on message boards, maybe you should acquire some social skills.
So you're spending at 12 on someone who is at best a RT and maybe an injury fill in at LT, but considering we already had an extremely similar player in Pugh would have in all likelihood played guard for us.
Forgive me if I don't jump on that bandwagon. Flexibility is nice, but the upside doesn't match the cost.
+1
Can't forgive Reese? You fucking schmuck.
Fatman: Give yourself some credit. I'm sure you know more than Dan Snyder. :)
Offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds would have caused an avalanche of criticism on BBI.
Jupiter: I'm not so sure. Going OL in the 1st and 2nd would have been definitely defensible given last year's OL. I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
Can't forgive Reese? You fucking schmuck.
I went to high school with a general manager in this league, who couldn't find a sports team with a map. Don't overestimate the GMs in this league.
As for drafting Martin at 12, I never bought into the idea that guards don't warrant consideration in the top half of the first round. A great player is a great player and it doesn't matter that much where he plays, in my opinion, so long as he's an everydown guy. Bruce Matthews was the ninth pick in the draft in 1983 Draft and I think the Oilers feel they got good value with that pick (the Giants took Terry Kinard with the next selection; think about how Giants history might've changed with Matthews on our line for 20 years).
Back to Martin, Dallas took him just four picks later anyway so I don't see how it was that much of a reach. And again, without a better o-line, our passing attack won't be effective regardless of who's catching the ball. My choices for the 1st round were Bridgewater (and trading Eli) or Martin. I still stand by those choices.
Most here were thrilled with our offsesson FA haul, our new deffensive backfield, Jennings, Schwartz (who was thought to be best FA G available).
If Odell Beckham is the goods, in 2014 we may have drafted as well or better than any other NFL franchise.
That's not somebody making bad recent decisions.
btw - Fuck Martin. He's a cowboy.
As for drafting Martin at 12, I never bought into the idea that guards don't warrant consideration in the top half of the first round. A great player is a great player and it doesn't matter that much where he plays, in my opinion, so long as he's an everydown guy. Bruce Matthews was the ninth pick in the draft in 1983 Draft and I think the Oilers feel they got good value with that pick (the Giants took Terry Kinard with the next selection; think about how Giants history might've changed with Matthews on our line for 20 years).
Back to Martin, Dallas took him just four picks later anyway so I don't see how it was that much of a reach. And again, without a better o-line, our passing attack won't be effective regardless of who's catching the ball. My choices for the 1st round were Bridgewater (and trading Eli) or Martin. I still stand by those choices.
Drafting a guard high is fine, if he's a phenom. Martin is a great technician with average to above average physical ability. Essentially he is a RT who's spelling at guard for a bit. Dallas will have a space at RT in a year, we won't. We've already got a very similar player in Pugh.
Now he might turn out to be an excellent guard in a very settled OL but Dallas drafted him to be their RT of the future. We'd already done that. Martin is a very good versatile player but you're not spending a high first round pick on versatility, the value wasn't there.
You trade Eli, you might as well have written this season off as well as the next few too, AND you have to hope Bridgewater is even a NFL-caliber starter.
People vastly overestimate their own skills and terribly underestimate the skills of personnel people in the NFL.
It is pure arrogance to bash a GM over a pick when we won't know the outcome several years down the road.
If people question Reese ignoring the OL, TE and LB positions now that we have a track record to look at, that's fine and being critical of moves 3-4 years ago can start to happen.
But bitching about not drafting an OL because a few preseason games have gone by is horrific analysis. And equating it to be a bad pick because ODB has been out is just as bad (so is the inference that he's injury prone).
But par is the course for this place in August.
If ODB ends up with 55 catches and 8 TD's, people will be singing his praises, and rightfully so.
And Martin will be an afterthought.
Nope! Oh, and how much has anyone here seen of Martin this preseason?
Yet you're fine with drafting a guard at 12? Cracking logic, too high to take WR unless he's a hall of famer, but lets draft a RT to play guard.
Like I said, everyone can have an opinion. Saying it looks worse every day and we haven't even gotten into the season is a really dumb statement.
Saying somebody can't forgive the GM? Pure idiocy.
I find a lot of people are proud to share their opinions. They ain't too keen on being told those opinions such monkey cock.
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And I don't think you take a WR that high unless you're talking Johnson/Fitzgerald. Same with RBs.
Yet you're fine with drafting a guard at 12? Cracking logic, too high to take WR unless he's a hall of famer, but lets draft a RT to play guard.
OL are more valuable than ever these days. And Martin played LT at Notre Dame.
Well, OK, but he'd damn well better seek forgiveness from Clydez also.
Based on your posting history here, I'd guess you were livid because three of four Super Bowl wins were "too close."
(I wanted Aaron Donald, BTW)
We lost Nicks and needed an X receiver in the worst way.
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In comment 11821603 jeff57 said:
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And I don't think you take a WR that high unless you're talking Johnson/Fitzgerald. Same with RBs.
Yet you're fine with drafting a guard at 12? Cracking logic, too high to take WR unless he's a hall of famer, but lets draft a RT to play guard.
OL are more valuable than ever these days. And Martin played LT at Notre Dame.
He's not an LT in the pros though which is kind of the point. We had a long term prospect at RT, the Cowboys didn't (they have Doug Free who is out of contract next year), Martin isn't an NFL LT, we don't have a space at RT (where he projects to in the pros) so he'd play guard for us, or push Pugh to guard. Either way we'd have spent a 12 on a guard who played LT and RT at college.
I don't think there's a GM in the league who'd have made that move.
That's a very valid observation. However, we aren't talking about educated opinions here; we're seeing unequivocal statements based on, "it's true because I say it is."
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In comment 11821616 bigbluescot said:
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In comment 11821603 jeff57 said:
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And I don't think you take a WR that high unless you're talking Johnson/Fitzgerald. Same with RBs.
Yet you're fine with drafting a guard at 12? Cracking logic, too high to take WR unless he's a hall of famer, but lets draft a RT to play guard.
OL are more valuable than ever these days. And Martin played LT at Notre Dame.
He's not an LT in the pros though which is kind of the point. We had a long term prospect at RT, the Cowboys didn't (they have Doug Free who is out of contract next year), Martin isn't an NFL LT, we don't have a space at RT (where he projects to in the pros) so he'd play guard for us, or push Pugh to guard. Either way we'd have spent a 12 on a guard who played LT and RT at college.
I don't think there's a GM in the league who'd have made that move.
Just stop already. Martin was widely considered a top 15 pick, and one of the safest picks in the draft. Pro-bowl caliber G, ability to play both OT spots. I guess we don't need one of those.
We have been over and over this.....yes, Reese has screwed up with the way he has handled the OL over the years....
It is what it is right now....we just have to hope that McAdoo calls plays based on the players he has on the field, instead of like Gilbride, who forced them to make plays they weren't capable of....
Some of the expectations were unrealistic from the get-go. The Giants were a very bad team last year, much worse than their 7-9 record would have you believe, regardless of the "you are what your record says you are" shibboleth. They weren't going to turn things completely around in one offseason, but the instant-gratification-crowd refused to hear that, and now that the Giants are experiencing the growing pains that come with rebuilding you're hearing all kinds of whining.
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who states fairly certainly that they know more than a GM (even the worst GM), is not only a moron, but they might want to think about the irony in discussing social skills as they bash a professional.
Can't forgive Reese? You fucking schmuck.
Fatman: Give yourself some credit. I'm sure you know more than Dan Snyder. :)
And Jerry Jones...
The problem with hindsight(and it's not always 20/20)is people use it and assume everything else falls in place exactly how it did.
If the Giants took Martin they probably don't draft the same way after this pick...so the rest of the OP's post becomes a moot point.
This is good for discussion(the reason we are all here...well, except for the trolls and the handful of challenged posters)but it's hard to think you can make a serious argument from a what if.
Giants needed Beckham to be a force from day one. He is already a swing and a miss in that respect. TC must really hate this guy. A non-football injury. Missing OTA's, minicamp, entire preseason. He literally has never seen this kid play. Maybe he is a game breaker. But maybe he has alligator arms and will be overwhelmed. No way of knowing. Everybody he faces in the pro's is better then anyone he has ever faced before. God knows when he will be cleared to play and when he is it will be like the start of training camp for him. I will be surprised if TC will play him right away if at all.
Com'on man. That draft board has killed this OL for years. What would the team look like had they drafted Osemele and/or Marcus Cannon over the past few years. They passed right over those players and others despite the glaring need. What if the moved up for Lewan or went 2 out of their first 3 picks on OL this year?
A competent OL would likely have resulted in the Giants being a playoff team last year. Instead, we saw awful football and we might see a 2013 repeat b/c they can't block. Yeah, Beckum might be great but when the OL has this many issues and we're on the brink of non-stop story lines about the contract status of the QB and coach I think we need to at least give the OL legit stability.
Giants needed Beckham to be a force from day one. He is already a swing and a miss in that respect. TC must really hate this guy. A non-football injury. Missing OTA's, minicamp, entire preseason. He literally has never seen this kid play. Maybe he is a game breaker. But maybe he has alligator arms and will be overwhelmed. No way of knowing. Everybody he faces in the pro's is better then anyone he has ever faced before. God knows when he will be cleared to play and when he is it will be like the start of training camp for him. I will be surprised if TC will play him right away if at all.
A "non-football injury?" Happened during OTAs, did it not?
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shows an inherent lack of understanding of how teams utilize the draft, as well as tunnel vision and not understanding how valuable WRs are to the team's philosophy. Make no mistake about it, WR was a big need as well and they stuck to their draft board.
Com'on man. That draft board has killed this OL for years. What would the team look like had they drafted Osemele and/or Marcus Cannon over the past few years. They passed right over those players and others despite the glaring need. What if the moved up for Lewan or went 2 out of their first 3 picks on OL this year?
A competent OL would likely have resulted in the Giants being a playoff team last year. Instead, we saw awful football and we might see a 2013 repeat b/c they can't block. Yeah, Beckum might be great but when the OL has this many issues and we're on the brink of non-stop story lines about the contract status of the QB and coach I think we need to at least give the OL legit stability.
What does this team look like if ODB is the impact player they believe he is? An impact WR is worth significantly more than an OL, especially an OG.
And I say this as a fan who sat there watching the Titans at #11, hoping they wouldn't pick Lewan so we could.
Look, they've made picks I didn't like as a fan either, Sintim over Unger being a classic example. But, questioning them after a few preseason games is folly. I'd agree they need to revise how they address the OL in terms of resources, but suggesting OL over WR smacks of kneejerk reaction.
Offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds would have caused an avalanche of criticism on BBI.
I'm not sure there would have been much criticism given the amount of grief BBI has given the offensive line.
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In comment 11821623 jeff57 said:
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In comment 11821616 bigbluescot said:
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In comment 11821603 jeff57 said:
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And I don't think you take a WR that high unless you're talking Johnson/Fitzgerald. Same with RBs.
Yet you're fine with drafting a guard at 12? Cracking logic, too high to take WR unless he's a hall of famer, but lets draft a RT to play guard.
OL are more valuable than ever these days. And Martin played LT at Notre Dame.
He's not an LT in the pros though which is kind of the point. We had a long term prospect at RT, the Cowboys didn't (they have Doug Free who is out of contract next year), Martin isn't an NFL LT, we don't have a space at RT (where he projects to in the pros) so he'd play guard for us, or push Pugh to guard. Either way we'd have spent a 12 on a guard who played LT and RT at college.
I don't think there's a GM in the league who'd have made that move.
Just stop already. Martin was widely considered a top 15 pick, and one of the safest picks in the draft. Pro-bowl caliber G, ability to play both OT spots. I guess we don't need one of those.
He's not an pro LT regardless of ability to spell there, we have a young RT where the Cowboys drafted him to play.
While we have an obvious need for reinforcement on the OL, Martin was hardly the slam dunk no brainer pick for the Giants people here are making it out to be, especially if you consider at the time we'd paid out for Schwartz and still had Snee, now you can question the sense in both acquiring Schwartz and relying on Snee given Schwartz subsequent preseason performance and Snee's injury history. That's fine, but at the time both were on board for the season which lessen the need to spend a high pick on the guard position. Arguably the two biggest needs on the oline at the time of the draft were center and LT, Martin did nothing to resolve either long term, you're not spending a 12 for depth at LT.
If Martin was a genuine contender to be a long term starter at LT then I could see the point in all the bleating about not selecting him. He isn't, all those draftniks who called him a potential all pro RT or Guard also questioned his ability to play LT in the pros. Martin looks a very good player, there are a lot of them at the top end of the draft, you can't pick them all.
We did have a gaping hole at X receiver though with little ability to resolve it via free agency. So the Beckham pick was perfectly understandable, and if we're going on draft projections and reactions to the draft by the draftniks most considered the Beckham pick to be a very good one. I can also see the logic in picking Martin to a point but given the resources we had at the time, I'm pretty comfortable with the decision not to pick him.
This just smacks of people screaming for someone, anyone to play oline. I get that considering, but it's not like we didn't spend our second round pick on a center/guard or anything like that. Richburg actually has looked pretty decent, and had a pretty good game last night.
The Reese fans don't give a shit about facts. Passing on guys like Glenn over Wilson and Unger over Sintim are two glaring ones that show he doesn't think the OL is an important unit.
Now that is a fucking disaster he added a couple good young prospects in Pugh in Richberg but not one other player on this OL should be a lock to be on this team in two years.
But hey. Let's draft some more WRs DTs and DBs that don't pan out and then worry about the OL again every year.
The Reese fans don't give a shit about facts. Passing on guys like Glenn over Wilson and Unger over Sintim are two glaring ones that show he doesn't think the OL is an important unit.
Now that is a fucking disaster he added a couple good young prospects in Pugh in Richberg but not one other player on this OL should be a lock to be on this team in two years.
But hey. Let's draft some more WRs DTs and DBs that don't pan out and then worry about the OL again every year.
You don't think Pugh is a lock(barring injury)to be on this team past the next couple of seasons?
The mistakes imv were swinging for the fences on players like Travis Beckum, Barden, Jernigan, Sintim, those were specific situations where OL could've been addressed and the overall value was good.
I strongly disagree with spending 1st and 2nd rounders on OL in a vacuum, strictly out desperation. In that case, you spend in free agency.
Our drafts have stunk since we hired Marc Ross as director of college scouting. Since then, our drafts have gone downhill AND on top of that Ross has been promoted! Both Ross and Reese have done a poor job with this OL.
Reese's overall draft philosophy (the one he acquired from Accorsi) regarding OL and its importance Or lack of, is rubbish.
I strongly disagree with spending 1st and 2nd rounders on OL in a vacuum, strictly out desperation. In that case, you spend in free agency.
I agree. Unless you have a top tackle prospect, you need to draft the best young play makers you can get with your premium picks.
Yeah it looks like it sucks now bc ODB hasn't played and our free agent guard got hurt, but let's give ODB a chance to get on the field for a season at least before we call picking him a mistake
IMHO, in the top of the 1st round, you always go for the elite playmaker over the guard
Link - ( New Window )
We really could use Jace Amaro at TE too
But you only get so many draft picks and now you have to play the cards that were dealt
So quit the whining and suck it up
Every team has holes
Our team is slowly improving after a massive overhaul
Will they improve enough to make the playoffs
Too soon to tell but if it takes another year so be it
If Reese selected Martin, what is the likelihood he would have taken Richburg later on! Not too high, I don't think. If ODB were healthy, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I'm not sure if OBJ was a good pick or not, but I do know that Reese has made a ton of mistakes with the draft and free agency and deserves any criticism he receives.
Yeah because OBJr will be one of the top 5 players ever. Sure he will
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In comment 11821660 JonC said:
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shows an inherent lack of understanding of how teams utilize the draft, as well as tunnel vision and not understanding how valuable WRs are to the team's philosophy. Make no mistake about it, WR was a big need as well and they stuck to their draft board.
Com'on man. That draft board has killed this OL for years. What would the team look like had they drafted Osemele and/or Marcus Cannon over the past few years. They passed right over those players and others despite the glaring need. What if the moved up for Lewan or went 2 out of their first 3 picks on OL this year?
A competent OL would likely have resulted in the Giants being a playoff team last year. Instead, we saw awful football and we might see a 2013 repeat b/c they can't block. Yeah, Beckum might be great but when the OL has this many issues and we're on the brink of non-stop story lines about the contract status of the QB and coach I think we need to at least give the OL legit stability.
What does this team look like if ODB is the impact player they believe he is? An impact WR is worth significantly more than an OL, especially an OG.
And I say this as a fan who sat there watching the Titans at #11, hoping they wouldn't pick Lewan so we could.
Look, they've made picks I didn't like as a fan either, Sintim over Unger being a classic example. But, questioning them after a few preseason games is folly. I'd agree they need to revise how they address the OL in terms of resources, but suggesting OL over WR smacks of kneejerk reaction.
Knee jerk my ass. The OL was the #1 issue on the team last year and talk about Ol has been at the forefront for two years plus now.
So Osemele and Cannon couldn't crack this lineup? This BPA draft board hasn't had its share of misses? You actually believe the draft board has maximized resources despite passing on talent and the state of the OL for years? Seriously??
-Sean Lee
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and the dynamics of maximizing resources, which I've addressed.
So Osemele and Cannon couldn't crack this lineup? This BPA draft board hasn't had its share of misses? You actually believe the draft board has maximized resources despite passing on talent and the state of the OL for years? Seriously??
I've made the relevant points above that address your questions. No philosophy or draft record is without its warts, and I've posted examples above where it would appear you and I would potentially agree there were better players on the board that were also OL.
But, at #12 in this past draft, I want the playmaker unless the OL is a clearly more valuable talent with a higher grade from my scouting process.
If positional needs are that desperate, they should've been addressed via UFA, and I'd agree they didn't do enough there.
I'm simply not drafting two OL in rounds 1-2 regardless of any other factors. That's a kneejerk reaction. Fans who were hellbent on doing so have the luxury now of pulling various examples all with the benefit of hindsight.
Don't tell me about the big picture as the LOS is where the game is won and lost.
I posted earlier I wanted Lewan, btw.
Two good examples of why fan analysis is silly. Three days after the Draft. And then less than a week later.
Do we even have a gameplan
Essex : 3/13/2014 8:37 pm
I normally do not like to rant, but I am so disappointed in the Giants. We still need a CB, a strong side LB, a CB, a TE, another WR, DTs, etc. The market is thin and we have a ton of cap room that will go to waste (I know you can roll it over now but we need to compete this year). We are never proactive and we lose far too much of our homegrown talent. Joseph should have been signed last summer and we probably could have gotten him for 4 or 5 per. I think the Tuck contract is ridiculous, but if you didn't lowball him in the offseason you probably could have had him back at a much cheaper price. With respect to Nicks, it is clear that is not a huge market for him and we could probably resign him for the same price the Eagles signed Riley Cooper (most speculation is that he will command about 5). Think about that, before the season started if you would have said Nicks would be in the same range as Riley Cooper, who wouldn't jump on that. Randle, JJ, and Cruz is not enough. Look, if Nicks gets 7-10 million, that is something we should not be involved. But, come on, at 5 million, he is definitely worth it.
Essex : 3/18/2014 8:42 am
even without adding a DE or Veteran DT. Agree or Disagree?
Sheldon Brown
Michael Lewis
Worked out pretty well.
Sheldon Brown
Michael Lewis
Worked out pretty well.
CB's are considered premium positions around the league. Have been for some time.
You continue to miss the point. No one here has opposed cluster drafting. What we're opposed to is cluster drafting OL, where play makers are available.
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Do we even have a gameplan
Essex : 3/13/2014 8:37 pm
I normally do not like to rant, but I am so disappointed in the Giants. We still need a CB, a strong side LB, a CB, a TE, another WR, DTs, etc. The market is thin and we have a ton of cap room that will go to waste (I know you can roll it over now but we need to compete this year). We are never proactive and we lose far too much of our homegrown talent. Joseph should have been signed last summer and we probably could have gotten him for 4 or 5 per. I think the Tuck contract is ridiculous, but if you didn't lowball him in the offseason you probably could have had him back at a much cheaper price. With respect to Nicks, it is clear that is not a huge market for him and we could probably resign him for the same price the Eagles signed Riley Cooper (most speculation is that he will command about 5). Think about that, before the season started if you would have said Nicks would be in the same range as Riley Cooper, who wouldn't jump on that. Randle, JJ, and Cruz is not enough. Look, if Nicks gets 7-10 million, that is something we should not be involved. But, come on, at 5 million, he is definitely worth it.
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On Paper We Have The Best Defense In The NFC East
Essex : 3/18/2014 8:42 am
even without adding a DE or Veteran DT. Agree or Disagree?
Saying we have the best defense in the NFC East isn't exactly the highest praise, if you actually watched the other 3 teams defenses over the course of the 2013 season. The Giants have a good, potentially great defense, sure. But our division may have possibly the worst defenses in the entire league. Him feeling that the Giants didn't do nearly enough this offseason and that they are the best defense in the NFC East are not mutually exclusive statements.
Just a weird, uninformed call out.
I posted earlier I wanted Lewan, btw.
Yeah, you're not throwing assumptions while side stepping Oseleme, Cannon and Lewan while telling others their knee jerk for wanting to upgrade a positon which killed the entite team last season. A strong LOS is knee jerk? Yeah, now that's some wrong assumption on youe end.
Lewan is taking reps at guard b/c the already have two tackles.
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You assume the OL is a better player, better fit, will have a greater and immediate impact, etc. Nothing but assumptions and If's, that's more solid footing than sticking with your process?
I posted earlier I wanted Lewan, btw.
Yeah, you're not throwing assumptions while side stepping Oseleme, Cannon and Lewan while telling others their knee jerk for wanting to upgrade a positon which killed the entite team last season. A strong LOS is knee jerk? Yeah, now that's some wrong assumption on youe end.
You continue to miss the point.
Yep. You are correct. Crossed the two events between my brain and fingers.
The point is, fans hysterically and emotionally react and often turn on a dime. (See the recent, collective sea change on Nassib.) This is among the many luxuries professionals don't have, that amateurs do. So minus a bunch of information the FO has, and a whole bunch of patience, the fans touting their 'education' are mostly lacking a whole bunch of perspective.
That certainly doesn't mean the humans running the team don't make mistakes. Obviously, they do. I just don't believe there's a single person on here, knowing exactly what they know now, who wouldn't do a whole lot worse.
Not remotely, you clearly haven't a clue other than toss darts at the dartboard, assume and pray. Winning!
And that's the point, the WR graded higher than the OL available, and WRs are more valuable to NYG than an interior OL who might be able to play tackle in the NFL. You get playmakers early in drafts, you can build the OL with less than premium resources.
Don't tell me about the big picture as the LOS is where the game is won and lost.
This is the dumbest fucking argument that I see fans bring up. 11 teams passed on him? Seriously? So this means he is no good, or that WR isn't a priority position? Holy shit balls. I guess the only player worth a crap is the number 1 overall pick every year. It's the same argument fans used when they picked Bromley. "Oh, well, look at all the teams that passed on him!". It's just a ridiculously stupid thing to say, for a million reasons.
And I won't bother to remind you that several teams, including the Jets, were heavily rumored to be trying to trade up, to get ahead of the Giants, to pick Beckham. If you don't believe it, go back and watch the draft coverage.
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Including the Titans who needed a WR yet went Lewan. Yeah, Lewan at LT wouldn't stabilize this OL so the offense could function. The team would be much better than a talented Beckum running crisp patterns and the QB is on his back.
Don't tell me about the big picture as the LOS is where the game is won and lost.
This is the dumbest fucking argument that I see fans bring up. 11 teams passed on him? Seriously? So this means he is no good, or that WR isn't a priority position? Holy shit balls. I guess the only player worth a crap is the number 1 overall pick every year. It's the same argument fans used when they picked Bromley. "Oh, well, look at all the teams that passed on him!". It's just a ridiculously stupid thing to say, for a million reasons.
And I won't bother to remind you that several teams, including the Jets, were heavily rumored to be trying to trade up, to get ahead of the Giants, to pick Beckham. If you don't believe it, go back and watch the draft coverage.
Maybe if learn to read you wouldn't post something so utterly stupid and misrepresent what was posted
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when it's an area of need and the players grade out.
And that's the point, the WR graded higher than the OL available, and WRs are more valuable to NYG than an interior OL who might be able to play tackle in the NFL. You get playmakers early in drafts, you can build the OL with less than premium resources.
Since Lewan went first you have nothing but guesswork as to where the Giants ranked him. Not to mention, the cockadoodle idea you don't get playmakers besides early in drafts is as narrow as your whole position regarding the topic.
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Don't agree with you one bit about Tennessee. They have a former #1 in Kendall wright and spent. 2 last year on Justin Harper. They desperately needed OT as the wheels fell off David Stewart last year and Michael Roos may not be far behind. Signing Blind Side in FA was the questionable move. Lewan was an obvious choice for them( I don't understand why the draft pundits were surprised by it. I wasn't at all.
Lewan is taking reps at guard b/c the already have two tackles.
Yeah? Roos and Oher?
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In comment 11822215 LPete said:
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Don't agree with you one bit about Tennessee. They have a former #1 in Kendall wright and spent. 2 last year on Justin Harper. They desperately needed OT as the wheels fell off David Stewart last year and Michael Roos may not be far behind. Signing Blind Side in FA was the questionable move. Lewan was an obvious choice for them( I don't understand why the draft pundits were surprised by it. I wasn't at all.
Lewan is taking reps at guard b/c the already have two tackles.
Yeah? Roos and Oher?
Lewan is taking reps at guard. Want to disagree with that fact too?
Done.
OK, who was the willing trade-down partner? How far was the proposed trade down? Do you have ANY FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about?
Please, someone jump in here because the twaddle-brained "analysis" has really hit rock bottom.
I understand that a great wide receiver is more of a difference-maker than a great guard; however, the success rate for guards taken early in the draft is higher, too. Too many 1st round wide-outs who just never amounted to much. I don't feel we could roll the dice when we had such a glaring need at guard (assuming Snee was done).
I understand that a great wide receiver is more of a difference-maker than a great guard; however, the success rate for guards taken early in the draft is higher, too. Too many 1st round wide-outs who just never amounted to much. I don't feel we could roll the dice when we had such a glaring need at guard (assuming Snee was done).
Without the great Guard (and OL), the great WR will never see the ball. I agree with you, and I said it on draft day. It was a mistake to pass on Martin.
I agree OL should have had more of a rebuild, but they should have started in 2011 not 2014.
Running 3-1 for Martin.
People also forget that at the time of the draft we had already invested money in Schwartz and Beatty and both of whom would have been expected to have solid years. That's in addition to Walton and some expected progression of prior year draft investments. That afforded them the opportunity to go BPA *and* at a glaring need position since it was clear that only having Cruz was as deadly to Eli as the porous OL.
But the main thing is, on draft day there is no greater likelihood that Martin would not be a bust than OBJ or anyone else, so it's tough to say that we would be better off given the info that they had.
Personally, I expected and wanted them to draft Martin. They didn't.
I have always been a "In Reese we Trust" guy, but his benefit of the doubt has warn out with me. Beckham better fucking be Megatron II if he wants to get that back.
He has to be able to get on the field to play a game which seemingly isn't an easy task for him.
Plus, if we can't protect Eli we could have Jerry Rice out there and it wouldn't make a difference.