Without question, Eli Manning is the greatest QB in the history of The New York Giants
The Eli era will be treated triumphantly in the annals of Giants History....and probably talked amongst fans with the same amount of joy as the '86' Season
With that being said, my personal belief is that the window of stellar QB play is closing for Mr. Manning
Some like to make comparisons with Eli to the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton....which is very unfair...
I'd like to put him in that 'next rung' of Quarterbacks....
Guys like Romo, McNabb, Dalton, Flacco, Cutler....those would be fairer comparisons
In that regard, and looking at some players of whom I feel have had similar careers to that of Eli Manning....statistics do not lie
At some point, and for whatever reason, the quality of QB play diminishes
Eli Manning has two Super Bowl championships, two Super Bowl MVP titles, and is a Giants All-Time Great
But like the players listed below, all with great NFL Careers, he's not an NFL All-Time Great
Matt Hasselbeck
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HassMa00.htm
Jake Delhomme
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DelhJa00.htm
Mark Bulger
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BulgMa00.htm#passing::none
Eli Manning
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm
Eli is an NYG legend, but he's not anywhere close to the caliber of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning when it comes to QB'ing.
You place a big emphasis upon statistics in football?
So, you think you can compare the careers of Archie Manning and Joe Montana? In order to do that, you'd have to be able to have a way to know how Montana's "statistics" would have fared had he and Archie swapped places. If you're able to do that, then please, explain to me what the statistics for those two QBs would have been had they swapped teams (and how you arrived at it).
This isn't baseball. Football is a TEAM sport - where every player's accomplishments are directly related to the other 10 players on the field with him.
You place a big emphasis upon statistics in football?
So, you think you can compare the careers of Archie Manning and Joe Montana? In order to do that, you'd have to be able to have a way to know how Montana's "statistics" would have fared had he and Archie swapped places. If you're able to do that, then please, explain to me what the statistics for those two QBs would have been had they swapped teams (and how you arrived at it).
This isn't baseball. Football is a TEAM sport - where every player's accomplishments are directly related to the other 10 players on the field with him.
A WR running the wrong route on a timing pattern that leads to an Int goes against the QB
A lineman missing a block that allows a DE to come in and hit the QB causing an Int goes against the QB
A WR/TE/RB bobbles a pass or tips one that should have been caught that leads to an Int goes against a QB
An unnecessary holding penalty on a play where the QB just completed a TD hurts the QB stats
There are a bunch of examples where Stats don't come close to telling the true story
pocket passers who when they lost a step were too immobile to compete and fairly easy to play against
Offensive line issues or not..if Eli starts the season like he did last year then he will be benched before week 6. Eli has accomplished a boat load in NY and his legacy will live on, but there is no way the Giants the him a. New contract if he has 15 INT's before week 6.
Stats be damned!
As noted above, it's a team game and coaches and coordinators are parts of the team..
Change does not guarantee a positive outcome and it can get a lot worse. The grass is not always greener. Patrick Ewing was being run out of town for years. Anyone recall what happened when he left? Before the 2007 Super Bowl run 'fans' claimed Coughlin had to go. Now Eli is on a down slide? In my opinion without Eli is not just the face of the franchise, but our only hope to be competitive!!!! If he wins a third ring in the next few years how silly will some of you feel.
"Manning always had excellent throwing ability. That was evident when he was the No. 1 pick out of Mississippi. As he’s played in the NFL, and remarkably has never missed a game, he has continued to expand and refine the necessary attributes. Over time, it’s measurable and quantifiable traits that produce top quarterback production in the NFL. Manning has progressively developed the subtleties of the position. It’s very clear watching tape that Eli understands the discipline demanded, and he’s gotten better and better each year."
Link - ( New Window )
But then you say this..
Matt Hasselbeck
Jake Delhomme
Mark Bulger
But holy shit man these 3 players you listed DO NOT have 2 SB championships...
Yet alone being one of 5 players (to refresh your memory, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady being the others) to win 2 SB MVP's..
So yes he is an all-time NFL great UNLIKE the other 3 you listed..
What I probably should have said was "history is not kind to guys on a downward swing"
A couple retorts;
I would agree that Bledsoe and Aikman are better examples
with the exception of Marc Bulger, both Hasselback and Dellhome played AND played well in close Super Bowl games;
My point is essentially that Eli Manning does not have the same window of opportunity as the all time greats; he's more aligned with some good NFL Players that had amazing four-six year runs
Eli is not getting benched; I think he plays the whole year, barring injury
But I think we've seen the best of #10
"Manning always had excellent throwing ability. That was evident when he was the No. 1 pick out of Mississippi. As he’s played in the NFL, and remarkably has never missed a game, he has continued to expand and refine the necessary attributes. Over time, it’s measurable and quantifiable traits that produce top quarterback production in the NFL. Manning has progressively developed the subtleties of the position. It’s very clear watching tape that Eli understands the discipline demanded, and he’s gotten better and better each year." Link - ( New Window )
Hey man, nothing for nothing....but this was based off his 2011 play
As some would say, his BEST season as a professional Football player
But we're approaching the 2014 season and very much removed from those days
While I agree with everything Mr. Cosell says, I'd like to read what he has to say about Eli in 2014 and beyond
That may turn out to be true. But if it does, IMO it will have very little to do with #10 and everything to do with his supporting cast.
But more to the point, I don't see how you or anyone else has any basis to evaluate him since you haven't seen how well (or poorly) he would play behind a legitimate NFL offense.
And, again, it's pretty funny that we sit in our chairs and pretend to judge/evaluate someone who is one of the best 32 people in the world at what he does - when we are lucky to be the best in our household at what we do (no less our street, town, county, state blah blah blah). There isn't any doubt in my mind that there isn't a single person on BBI who is one of the top 50 on planet earth at what they do. But Manning is.
Quote:
... I think we've seen the best of #10
That may turn out to be true. But if it does, IMO it will have very little to do with #10 and everything to do with his supporting cast.
But more to the point, I don't see how you or anyone else has any basis to evaluate him since you haven't seen how well (or poorly) he would play behind a legitimate NFL offense.
And, again, it's pretty funny that we sit in our chairs and pretend to judge/evaluate someone who is one of the best 32 people in the world at what he does - when we are lucky to be the best in our household at what we do (no less our street, town, county, state blah blah blah). There isn't any doubt in my mind that there isn't a single person on BBI who is one of the top 50 on planet earth at what they do. But Manning is.
Yes, but this is true of ANY NFL quarterback
Alex Smith is a shining example of having a stellar supporting cast and immediate results; for whatever reason may be, the expectations are way higher for a guy like Eli Manning then there are for a guy like Alex Smith
Side note; given the choice, I'd take Eli over Smith any day of the week
The only thing I can take umbridge with your argument of "whom are we to judge"....CBS, NBC, and FOX aren't lined up to watch me sell Beer
Nor are they lined up to watch somebody bag Groceries, wash cars, mow lawns etc
I'm sure that if what I did for a living was something people cared enough about for it to be a weekly and seasonally episode; somebody would find something wrong with what I did or how I've done things....and how I used to to things
But that's one of the major reasons why we watch sports, right?
Because we care so much about something to have an opinion on it?
Nor are they lined up to watch somebody bag Groceries, wash cars, mow lawns etc
I'm sure that if what I did for a living was something people cared enough about for it to be a weekly and seasonally episode; somebody would find something wrong with what I did or how I've done things....and how I used to to things
But that's one of the major reasons why we watch sports, right?
Because we care so much about something to have an opinion on it?
I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion. We all have opinions. What I'm saying, however, is that we need to recognize that we are expressing an opinion about someone who is the very best in the entire world at what he does (1 of the top 32 in the entire world). The odds of someone becoming a starting NFL QB are 1 in several billion... and Manning has met and beat those odds. And our "guessing" when someone with that rarefied talent has passed their prime without having actual evidence may be fun, but at the end of the day is probably pretty silly.
And, if you sell beer (or whatever we do for a living), the chances are overwhelming that nobody is going to be interested in what we do - not because what we do isn't interesting (and it might not be) - but more importantly because we don't come close to being the best in the entire world at what we do.
When somebody is one of the top 32 in the entire world at what he/she does - then I have to believe that we aren't in a position to know when he/she has fallen from that perch until AFTER it has happened. But not before. And there isn't any basis - zero basis - to say that has happened to Manning. We can't know that until we see Manning play shitty when surrounded with solid talent.