I watched every Giant game last year and the first 4 games this year and have reached 2 conclusions. JPP is either a has-been or just isn't putting forth the effort. He received a pass last year because he was recovering from an injury. This year looks like last year. He doesn't have a bull-rush or spin move and gets zero penetration off the line of scrimmage. The left tackle seems to handle him with ease. My suggestion is to move him to left end and start Moore at right end. Moore has the speed and enthusiasm and needs the experience to develop this year in to a prime defensive end.
My 2nd proposal is far more difficult to state. Eli Manning attempting to run the new offense is like watching Chris Christie perform ballet. It just doesn't work. Eli looks totally uncomfortable in this new offense. If we disregard the final 1:37 of the 2nd quarter of the Jet game, he has accomplished next to nothing in the preseason. This is my proposal. Sam Bradford suffered a season ending ACL injury. Would the Giants consider trading Eli to the Rams for next years 1st round pick? Just the thought of this makes me sick, but considering the way things are progressing it may not be such a bad idea. Elevate Nassib to be the starter and keep Painter as the experienced back-up and let Nassib develop. I could see Beckham, Cruz, and Washington as the eventual starters. I know this is a major move with Eli. I've been a die-hard fan since 1971. Curious how this scenario would be received by other posters.
This board is horrible right now. It really is.
JPP himself has said he is finally feeling healthy. He was dinged this past pre-season game but I believe he practiced yesterday. I'll wait until the first real game is completed before I begin to worry. I think he plays well this year. Maybe not 16.5 sacks but double digits. I also think Moore will work his way in more and more as the season goes. Rotating DL's is key to any good team.
Yeah. Trade him to the Rams.
Trade YOU to the Rams. :)
Trading Eli for another number one draft pick that may or may not survive a single practice like all-world Beckham? I think not. Give Eli some time and he will make nobodies like Kevin Boss and Steve Smith look like all pros.
Not sure if JPP has lost his desire or his explosive speed but we will sure know quickly once the season starts. If he does not generate pressure Moore has to play.
Giants have many issues but so do most teams in parity NFL. Let the games begin!
how would his contract fit on rams salary cap ??
and what hit woult that have on giants i know he has renegotiated contract several times
with all that i still think trade would be stupid unless they are overwhelmed in any trade offer
For one thing, even if you think Eli is done or next to done he's still miles better than Nassib. Nassib is not starter potential right now. We're not talking about a Heisman Trophy winner who was the #1 pick in the draft. We're talking about a 4th round draft pick who two weeks ago looked like he was going to be cut.
I am not one of those that thinks Eli is beyond criticism just because he won 2 Super Bowls, but this isn't a Joe Montana vs. Steve Young you're proposing here. This is Eli Manning vs. a nobody.
Despite what some people think, management of all teams do not tank a season on purpose. Trading Eli and starting Nassib would be tantamount to tanking the season.
It would be nice if people would ask themselves "why would the other team make this trade?" before posting trade scenarios. Just because you don't think we need someone on our team does not mean they have 1st round value around the league.
Oh, and it is waaaaaay to early to give up on Eli and turn this team over the Nassib. That thought does not even occur until this offseason based on how things play out for the full year.
FANTASY PLAYERS PLEASE GO TO NEVERLAND WITH PETER AND TINKERBELL.
IF YOU'RE NOT FANTASY PLAYERS THEN JUST........OH WELL YOU'RE FANS
GADZOOKS WHY DID I LET THIS TRASH GET TO ME.
IF WE'RE GOING ON SHOULD AND MAYBE'S THEN MARA SHOULD TRY TRADING SOME OF THESE FANS FOR CUSHION SEATS
Any team acquiring him would probably have to restructure his deal to fit his salary into this year's cap at such a late date. I guess the Rams could just cut their whole offensive line to make room for Eli.
Clearly, this is a silly scenario; but that's how the cap numbers would stack up. As for the price, didn't the Raiders cough up a 1 and a 2 for Carson Palmer when many saw a fork handle protruding between his shoulder blades? He wasn't exactly a cap bargain, either.
As for the idea of starting Nassib, you really have to believe Eli is completely shot for it to make sense. Eli probably forgets more about reading NFL defenses over breakfast each morning than Nassib has learned in his fifteen months as a pro. Manning makes some boneheaded decisions, but at least he knows what he's looking at.
How he dropped that ball I'll never know.
In a way it's not a crazy idea.
Look at the Colts accomplished by letting Payton go.
I was 26 when YA was bleeding on his knees at Yankee Stadium, he played one year to long.
Eli is a GREAT GIANT, and PERSON, but as the Godfather said "this is business".
The Eli trade thing isn't happening though every Giant fan has to be VERY concerned by Eli's play the last few years. Ignoring the exhibition games, let's not forget he has led the entire league in int's the last two out of three years. Not good.
In a way it's not a crazy idea.
Look at the Colts accomplished by letting Payton go.
The Colts had Andrew Luck to replace Peyton.
Eli is in a put up or shut up season.
He's the QB this year, but next year his dead money number is negligible. From a strictly business decision, he's got to earn his next contract this year. After last year, he's got to show he still has it. Doesn't make sense to sign him this year to an exorbitant number or restructure him in a way that hurts the team down the road. I'm pretty sure he gets that too.
Eli is a turnover machine. Either its a fumble when he scrambles or a poor decision in throwing the ball. You don't win giving the ball away. Eli has develop some bad habits trying to be what he once was. He looks old
JPP has had one good year in four years. He is nothing until he provess otherwise. His best highlight since 2011 was throwing Prince into the hottub. Since then Pricne has proven to be a better football player.
People can be down or up or whatever they want to be on Eli -- so long as it's about his play and not stupid shit about seeing his lack of leadership from your couch or whining about the way his shoulders slump or his face looks after some play, I don't care. I'm not exactly entirely bear-ish on him right now myself. What I resent is the sheer fucking stupidity that has overtaken this place, from thinking a team is going to give up a first rounder+ and blow out their cap situation for a QB that's been decided to be totally forked to declaring Nassib the next Drew Brees... two weeks after the team demoted him behind the blight that is Curtis Painter and not a single in-season pass thrown. I don't visit or post at Giants.com for a reason, though I might as well these days.
It would be interesting to know if he has outplayed Nassib in training camp though -- even with a red jersey on. That question is more about what we have in Nassib and the future as opposed to what Eli has left.
People can be down or up or whatever they want to be on Eli -- so long as it's about his play and not stupid shit about seeing his lack of leadership from your couch or whining about the way his shoulders slump or his face looks after some play, I don't care. I'm not exactly entirely bear-ish on him right now myself. What I resent is the sheer fucking stupidity that has overtaken this place, from thinking a team is going to give up a first rounder+ and blow out their cap situation for a QB that's been decided to be totally forked to declaring Nassib the next Drew Brees... two weeks after the team demoted him behind the blight that is Curtis Painter and not a single in-season pass thrown. I don't visit or post at Giants.com for a reason, though I might as well these days.
Rigs, I hayte when you're being reasonable.
People can be down or up or whatever they want to be on Eli -- so long as it's about his play and not stupid shit about seeing his lack of leadership from your couch or whining about the way his shoulders slump or his face looks after some play, I don't care. I'm not exactly entirely bear-ish on him right now myself. What I resent is the sheer fucking stupidity that has overtaken this place, from thinking a team is going to give up a first rounder+ and blow out their cap situation for a QB that's been decided to be totally forked to declaring Nassib the next Drew Brees... two weeks after the team demoted him behind the blight that is Curtis Painter and not a single in-season pass thrown. I don't visit or post at Giants.com for a reason, though I might as well these days.
Quality post as usual, Riggies.
The Giants sat back and watched Brendan Albert, Eugene Monroe, Zane Beadles, etc. were signed.
If the Giants are convinced Eli is not done and has another championship run in him why not extend him, lower his cap number and get some premium OL talent to help the situation.
At his age, Eli is not prepared (IMO) for a 2004-like rebuilding.
At this point, even if the homers don't like it, trading Eli for the Rams 1st round pick (and maybe injured OL Roger Saffold) isn't an awful idea. It's not easy to go from Favre to Rodgers or Manning to Luck. This is one way to do it.
I expect a 4 - 12 season though, unlike some of you who think this team is going 10 - 6.
No QB could have succeeded last year. No time to throw, no running game to take the heat off, and no WR's.
This was an awful FA TE class too. The Giants handing big money or a locked in contract out to any of the "top" options would have been a terrible move. As their cap situation was, they still could have been players for some of the middle of the pack guys if they had chosen to, but they didn't make that choice; it hasn't looked good since, but they wanted to go with their younger guys.
And, again, the Rams are not trading a first rounder+ for a QB that would, in this scenario be on the trade block because he's almost certainly done, especially not when they'd have to fuck up their own cap situation badly to do it. Only the Raiders would be that stupid and they just took on Schaub, so even they've had their fill.
Eli will not survive this season. and I believe he runs the risk of becoming David-Carr-ized.
they signed a RG to play LG, a center who hasn't played in 2 years, the worst LT available, and restructured their 34 year old RG and handed him the job.
the draft had TE's Jace Amaro looked pretty good against the Giants.
It's not like the OL issues snuck up on anyone.
Richburg was, by most reports, a solid pick...
No reason to expect a healthy Beatty not to at the very least perform adequately..
JD Walton just needs time to shake the rust imv. Certainly not a bad pick-up imo..
Depth has been addressed and will continue to be addressed...OLs around the league do not appear to be an area of strength with most teams..
This line needs time to gel, something many on this board will not be patient with even though they've given lip service to it..
they half-assed the O-line, no two-ways about it.
Zack Martin, Zane Beadles or a LG, Richburg, and Schwartz that's addressing the line - for the future, not on a wing and a prayer like now.
Relying on Snee, choosing to give Walton a starter's contract, putting Schwartz on the wrong side, signing depth in the form of terrible players like Jerry and Brown instead of anyone else with a pulse... I wasn't a fan of any of it, but pretty much none of the major issues there were because of Eli taking up too much cap space.
I'm not happy about relying on Beatty to bounce back, but you can't just make his contract disappear either. They already had to do some nifty book keeping to get out from Baas this offseason. Throwing, say, Branden Albert's contract on as a bandaid, on top of Beatty's existing deal and with Pugh assumed to be locking down RT for awhile, is a formula for cap disaster.
The OL has been a major problem for this team since 2011 and, during that time frame, a ton of money has been paid out to guys on the OL. They have spent draft picks, from all different rounds, on the OL dating back to 2009. The investment, contrary to popular belief, has been there. The problem is that they're not good at investing.
And I'd add that we attempted to address that with Baas but failed.
I think the investment has been there in terms of signings and draft picks, but the execution has been quite poor.
Hopefully it changes this season.
Apologies - you said the same thing I did.
he's the epitome of a rhythm quarterback. When he's in synch and the offensive timing is down he's as good as there is.
he's not great when things break down (consistently).
This team will live and die with the OL, I was concerned about it last year (and that's when I thought Beatty was good), I'm concerned about it this year when I don't know what to think of Beatty.
In fact, that's the problem. I don't know what to think of Schwartz at LG (where he has not been adquate) and is now injured, no clue what to think of Walton, no idea what to think of Richburg and hope Pugh is just rusty.
A lot of questions on the one unit that can make or break the season.
If they are going to win this year some things are going to have to break right on the OL inlcuding Beatty and Walton bouncing back, Richburg/Mosley developing quickly. If not they're, not going to e that good. But they have a better chance to win hoping a few things break right on the OL and its solid AND having a big time deep threat at WR, a top CB and a solid running back rather than getting the sure fire good OL and not having those other weapons.
So I endorse Reese's strategy in principle at least.
2. I hope its not the case, but I think Eli is done. I think the days of bad athletes at the QB position are over (unless you are a precision passer and have tremendous command of an offense - neither of which are Eli's traits).
How can you say Eli doesn't have total command of an offense? If nothing else, that is one of his greatest strengths. He has known the Giants offense inside and out almost from day one. This may be a new offense, but the same work ethic and football IQ exist.
We've spent a fair number of mid-round picks on the OL over the years and few, if any, have developed into good NFL players or even average starters. Coaches, both positional and head, get credited with that type of development when it happens (i.e. Seattle with DBs, previous iterations of the Giants on the OL, many QB coaches, etc).
The flip-side would be that coaches would get deducted credit for the failure of players to develop. This doesn't really happen, understandably so, because there's a knowledge vacuum. We just don't know if those players really didn't have the material or if the material wasn't maximized.
I'm not saying that this is the case. I couldn't possibly have the information necessary to claim it. Really, nobody could have that information, although people on the inside would be closer to having it. But it is something to consider.
And I'd add that we attempted to address that with Baas but failed.
I think the investment has been there in terms of signings and draft picks, but the execution has been quite poor.
Hopefully it changes this season.
Honestly, you can even date back to them signing say Shawn Andrews after 2009, as them trying to rebuild/invest and it not ending up working out for them.
(Though that's one deal that I don't blame them for not working. It was a little risk/great reward that unfortunately they only got rewarded with one season out of. If his back had somehow held up, that would have been a huge boon to this team the last few years, as he was a proven quality player and not just a one-year wonder like a Baas, for example.)
he's the epitome of a rhythm quarterback. When he's in synch and the offensive timing is down he's as good as there is.
he's not great when things break down (consistently).
This team will live and die with the OL, I was concerned about it last year (and that's when I thought Beatty was good), I'm concerned about it this year when I don't know what to think of Beatty.
In fact, that's the problem. I don't know what to think of Schwartz at LG (where he has not been adquate) and is now injured, no clue what to think of Walton, no idea what to think of Richburg and hope Pugh is just rusty.
A lot of questions on the one unit that can make or break the season.
I easily can be proven incorrect as the season draws to a close, but I have to believe an interior of Walton, Richburg and whomever (for now) mans the other OG spot will allow Eli to step up into the pocket(his strength) better, perhaps much better than Baas, Snee and Boothe did..
he's the epitome of a rhythm quarterback. When he's in synch and the offensive timing is down he's as good as there is.
he's not great when things break down (consistently).
This team will live and die with the OL, I was concerned about it last year (and that's when I thought Beatty was good), I'm concerned about it this year when I don't know what to think of Beatty.
In fact, that's the problem. I don't know what to think of Schwartz at LG (where he has not been adquate) and is now injured, no clue what to think of Walton, no idea what to think of Richburg and hope Pugh is just rusty.
A lot of questions on the one unit that can make or break the season.
Mostly agree aside from his 2011 year. He was in a zone that year and his pocket awareness was so amazing that he would always seem to slide step the rush and find a spot to make a strong and accurate throw from.
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I'd argue that the OL needed major investment starting in 2010.
And I'd add that we attempted to address that with Baas but failed.
I think the investment has been there in terms of signings and draft picks, but the execution has been quite poor.
Hopefully it changes this season.
Honestly, you can even date back to them signing say Shawn Andrews after 2009, as them trying to rebuild/invest and it not ending up working out for them.
(Though that's one deal that I don't blame them for not working. It was a little risk/great reward that unfortunately they only got rewarded with one season out of. If his back had somehow held up, that would have been a huge boon to this team the last few years, as he was a proven quality player and not just a one-year wonder like a Baas, for example.)
I forgot about him, great point. He was really good when he was healthy. That was an excellent signing, despite his issues.
The question should be how far away are the Giants from contending. If they are not close then Eli is a wasted asset. Eli is special as a player and a perfect fit for NY with his even demeanor. Yet, that did not save him last year when the rest of the offense disintegrated.
Those who really like him as a player might consider whether he would benefit from moving to a team that can actually protect him, offer a quality TE and at least a couple of receivers who might stretch the field. Unless things come together soon for this offense, Eli will be running for his life all year and getting blamed for every loss.
Ask Eli's dad how it felt to play with a rebuilding-average team for an entire career.
Matt M. : 2:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 11823945 JOMO25 said:
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1. I'd guess JPP is playing it safe and not going balls out here in pre-season.
2. I hope its not the case, but I think Eli is done. I think the days of bad athletes at the QB position are over (unless you are a precision passer and have tremendous command of an offense - neither of which are Eli's traits).
How can you say Eli doesn't have total command of an offense? If nothing else, that is one of his greatest strengths. He has known the Giants offense inside and out almost from day one. This may be a new offense, but the same work ethic and football IQ exist. --> He is a smart guy, no doubt but he doesn't seem to have the same command as his brother, Brady even Rivers (the other bad athletes that are NFL QBs).
But what does it mean, if a rookie outplays a vet we shelled out big bucks for? Baas? Beatty? Bueller?
But what does it mean, if a rookie outplays a vet we shelled out big bucks for? Baas? Beatty? Bueller?
It means we either got a great rookie or overpaid for a JAG vet