Color me stupid, but I think the Giants will be good

But I think the O is going to take a while to get rolling. Like, a few weeks. In the meantime, the D had better have its act together, because they may need to score some points.

I think Schwartz was not as advertised and was too slow to play LG...losing him might hurt a little in the running game but will help the passing game. Eli will respond well ....if given time by the OL.

What is not to like about our running backs...except William pass catching....with Jennings..... who can play all 3 downs...will not advertise what they are doing.

The offense will improve over the season.....

so as long as the defense keeps us in games.....which is good group....the Damonster is disruptive....the secondary is deep and strong....and even the lbers are no longer a weakspot..

I have hope....especially with Dallas and Washington sucking more......

My only concern is if the Eagles run away with it early...and we never get a chance of catching up. I do not expect a wildcard from of our group.

Into the season.

I haven't thought the games were anywhere near as bad as some of BBI contends. Perhaps I had my expectations set that it was going to take time with a new offense and so much roster turnover.

Overall, I think this team is not a straight forward projection on how this season will go.

Right with you.

I do think the O-line will be better than last year (How could it really be any worse) The secondary could arguably be the best in the league. With Beason back your LB's are good and the D-Line should be serviceable with upside.

Ultimately injuries and the Giants ability to avoid turnovers will decide how this season goes. Before preseason I felt 10-11 wins was the right number. I do think they need to get off to a decent start...November may be good for 1 win.

There are certainly going to be ups and downs. Sit back and enjoy the ride. I too am more optimistic than most.

I agree it's just going to take a few games to our O in sync so as long as the Eagles don't rush out to a huge lead I think we have a chance of winning the Division but no wild card will come out of the EAST. Let's go Giants

We usually win when no one else thinks we can and the division is weak.

The Cowboys and Redskins are terrible, the Eagles look like the favorites but they're not unbeatable by any means.

Personally, I don't think Eli returns to elite status but. I know he won't give up and he's won us 2 Super Bowls ( one practically by himself) so he gets my support and respect for the remainder of his football career ( even though his Giant days may be numbered).

and WALTON is (so far, at least), meh. Love the RB's though.

Still don't see how NYG competes for a playoff spot.

into the playoffs if things fall right for us.

None of the other NFC East teams really have any defense to speak of (even the Redskins' defense hasn't improved over last years dismal group). This may bode well for our still gelling offense.

And while all of the NFC East teams do have play making abilities on offense, I believe that our defense can keep them in check for the most part, especially with the additions of good CBs and the emergence of D.Moore.

they could get a few bounces, a few tips, a few timely penalties and be in a good position and then again, it could all go against them too. This is why I rarely go into a season with high expectations.
Eli has a penchant for playing well under pressure and the defense is designed to force turnovers.

you LOVE them?

the TE's can't block either.....

out of the gate and blow the doors off everybody. the silver lining about ODB is that if we start fast, then he comes in healthy in a few weeks, it can add another dimension. i know its a little too optimistic.. but its better then the depression soaked posts that we get around here daily... right on!

In comment 11825374 I Love Clams Casino said:

Quote:

you LOVE them? the TE's can't block either.....

Jennings is not a bad blocker and Williams will learn. Besides, running backs #1 job is to RUN the ball. Don't like how they run it?

our chances to be a playoff team run through Philly. I think their defense is going to be much better than last year. Iirc it improved last year, only allowing 22 points or more twice in their final eleven games.

If they get that kind of play out of their defense, they will be the 11+ win team in our division, imo.

I don't think we will be good enough this year to compete for a wild card spot.

be a good team this year.

....

Sometimes that's enough, sometimes it's not.. as we all know.

I really cannot see 11-5. I think that's far too optimistic. 8-8 is probably most likely.

7-9, 9-7, 9-7, 10-6, 8-8, 12-4, 10-6, 8-8, 11-5, 6-10...

This is the TC era....throw out the high and low, and you have a median of 9-7.....

With a +/- of 1, it's possible this team could be 8-8, 9-7 or 10-6.......

Now for the big question....does that make them good, based on their record?

Last year, this team was 7-9...was it a good 7-9 team or a bad 7-9 team?

When you look at this team, the prognosis for it to be a "good" team, is everything, every move(draft/free agency/allowing players to leave) that Reese had made, "has to click".....guys returning from injury, have to have good to great years....guy that played poorly, have to bounce back...there have to be no major injuries...and that's just to get to 9-7.....

I would have said differently earlier this summer, but from the Defensive-side, I still don't see a pass rush nor Beason on the field for the first team.

And Offensive is still a fairly big work-in-process. Not that it wasn't expected, but maybe not to this degree. And not having any TE step up or the use of Reese's shiny new tools like Schwartz and Beckham isn't helping matters.

The defense us the best in the division by a good margin and I think is easily a top 10 unit if not better. And though defense doesn't win championships it does make you competitive.

The offense just needs to be average. They need to not make too many turnovers and score an average in the low 20s or so. They need the balance of a decent run game and steady high percentage passing.

If they can do both these things they can win 10.

...its over by mid season. The rest will be irrelevant. Unfortunately we live or die with him. He looks like the rookie right now, and Nassib the veteran.

So colored...as I don't think Eli snaps out of it as he has been pretty lousy going back almost two seasons ago (when he had already mastered the offense).

if every move Reese made works out, if every guy coming back from injury plays good to great, if every guy who played poorly has a bounce back year they will win more than 9 games. Remember, the NFC east is, most likely, not going to be a top division. If all that happens, figure on 12 wins.

Because, why not? Nothing I do can change what's going to happen on the field.

That said, I agree: I think the Giants get to at least 10 wins. The secondary is going to be awesome. DRC will take the other team's best receiver, and Fewell will be able to roll coverage to the other side. Where the Giants have been getting hurt on D is when they've played zone. I think they'll play more man coverage when the season starts. They've also been gashed in the middle of the field (as opposed to the outside). Watch where Nicks made all his catches. Fewell I'm sure has seen this too.

As for the offense, they've got two good RBs with not a lot of mileage on them. The line, as bad as it has been, has done a good job of run blocking. We all know how deadly Eli can be off of play action.

The o-line is a concern, but the article posted here the other day pointed out a lot of these issues are communication, or trust. Those are fixable.

16-0.

I am usually one of the most optimistic guys out here but I just can't be this year. I'm excited to watch our two new RBs in Jennings and Williams as they are exceptional and exciting to watch but that gets cut down by a serious consideration of our o-line and how pathetic it remains.

I was excited about Odel but hamstrings tend to stick around for careers so now, I'm more excited about Corey Washington but my excitement gets muted by the O-line's inability to give Eli any pass protection.

I was excited to see us run a whole new offense but again with this o-line we won't even be able to judge it because this o-line will stink up any offense.

What I am excited about STILL is we finally have a great defensive backfield to backup our great D-Line. I think we'll have one of the best defenses in the league if our key components can stay healthy. But I just can't seriously expect us to be any more productive on offense than we were last year.

Some of you are saying you believe our oline has improved and I hope you are right but I just don't see it at all. I really think Reece blew it big time this off season and we still have no TEs who can stand out and I think the TE position is a key component of any west coast style offense. I sure hope TC can pull another miracle out of his hat cuz we are going to need it!

is that I always enter every season with optimism and expecting them to win. Looking for reasons not to is simply not fun for me as a fan and I would much rather look for reasons they will be good.

...until around Thanksgiving, at best. Seriously. 2007 and 2011 were both seasons that were completely shot in the ass.

2007? Coming on the heels of a second straight one-and-done in the playoffs, with Manning outgunned by the mighty Jake Delhomme, the Giants opened the season getting their asses handed to them, giving up @80 points in 2 games. An up and down season that featured a LOT of BBI bitching. The horrific late season disaster at home vs. Minnesota - the Giants were done. They lost several key players to injury - took until the very end of the season for CB to settle...

2011 was arguably worse with NO depth at WR to start the season (we had Nicks and NOBODY else!), a complete late season meltdown, barely getting in to the playoffs by the hair on their ass, and somehow running the table in the playoffs.

If Coughlin Giants have taught us ANYTHING, it's that PRESEASON means jack shit. WEAKNESS at a position means jack shit. We're just along for the ride, so it's best to enjoy it.

at DE and WR unless some of the youngsters really get it going.

In comment 11825594 x meadowlander said:

Quote:

...until around Thanksgiving, at best. Seriously. 2007 and 2011 were both seasons that were completely shot in the ass. 2007? Coming on the heels of a second straight one-and-done in the playoffs, with Manning outgunned by the mighty Jake Delhomme, the Giants opened the season getting their asses handed to them, giving up @80 points in 2 games. An up and down season that featured a LOT of BBI bitching. The horrific late season disaster at home vs. Minnesota - the Giants were done. They lost several key players to injury - took until the very end of the season for CB to settle... 2011 was arguably worse with NO depth at WR to start the season (we had Nicks and NOBODY else!), a complete late season meltdown, barely getting in to the playoffs by the hair on their ass, and somehow running the table in the playoffs. If Coughlin Giants have taught us ANYTHING, it's that PRESEASON means jack shit. WEAKNESS at a position means jack shit. We're just along for the ride, so it's best to enjoy it.

We lost to Carolina in 2005 (got shut out at home, actually).. 2006 we lost to the Eagles at the gun in the Wild Card game.

In comment 11825652 JonC said:

Quote:

at DE and WR unless some of the youngsters really get it going.

I still have next to no confidence in JPP..I think 2011 was it...BB56, please be 100% wrong..

The turnover differential was among the worst in the league. And they made it to 7-9. And they've significantly improved the O-line. And the defense, esp the secondary, is much improved over a squad that ended up top ten in the league last season.

Yeah, the offense needs to find its legs, and fast, but... To me the biggest factor is the turnovers. If they lead the division in turnover differential, they win the division.

I agree with the notion that JonC said that we have no playmakers at DE and WR outside or Cruz. I also think having just one experienced RB in Jennings is a disaster waiting to happen..The Gian't don't have that RB in waiting like a Ward, Bradhsaw, and Jacobs like in the past. Wiliams looks like a player right now, but where's is backup?

The talent level is not just there at some skill positions. We can sayw what we want about the other teams in the division, the one thing they al have going for them is threats on offense..

I think this team is treading on the mediocre line, as it's been the last 2 years. Other teams are getting better and I think the NYG are in catch up mode.

Significantly improved the OL?

I don't see it.

It should be a little better than last year, I think Richburg can play. I think Pugh is the real deal. But Schwartz looked bad and now he's out for at least a few games. Walton is still finding his legs. Beatty has been a wild card since he's been here. I think Mosley can be adequate but we have no depth. I still think this is a below average offensive line.

I believe Randle is a Z receiver and the slot guy is a "Y".

Anyway, this season goes how the Oline goes.

In comment 11825652 JonC said:

Quote:

at DE and WR unless some of the youngsters really get it going.

Funny How these positions used to be the strength of the team. Not to long ago we were arguing that we had one of the best WR corps in the league.

8-8 record = .500 team
16th best O + 16th best D = ~.500

I think that's an easy concept to understand. So the sum of the Offense + Defense ranking of a completely average football team should be around 32 (16 + 16).

~30th best O + ~15th best D = roughly where I'd rate the 2013 Giants. We were absolutely not a 7 win team last year, I think we all know that we were closer to a 5 win team than a .500 8 win team. The rankings pretty much reflect that

The D should be better but how much better? I think our CBs should be stronger but losing Will Hill was huge, he was arguably our best player last year when he played. So the secondary isn't even a lock to improve. And losing Tuck and Joseph will still be something we need to overcome, even though I believe Hankins and Moore should be capable replacements. Our LB corps does look stronger but nothing special. Overall I expect us to have a slightly above-average to good defense, similar to last year. A big year from JPP is really the key ingredient that could take the D from pretty good to very good, but we haven't really seen JPP flash All-Pro form this pre-season so that's doubtful.

So if we have roughly the 15th best D in football again, that means we'll need our O to make a huge leap from their awful 2013 where they were around 30th best in the league. I expect them to be better. While our OL and WRs are still weak, they're still more talented units than they were in 2013 imo. And while our TEs suck this year, Myers was utter garbage last year so I don't think we can get much worse. Our RB unit looks stronger this year with a capable vet in Jennings and a talented rookie in Williams. Although Gilbride wasn't THE problem, I do think it was time to move on and I do think McAdoo will prove to be an upgrade at OC. And I expect all these little things to help Eli improve from his career-worst season last year.

But it is still extremely hard for me to believe that this O can improve THAT much in one year. While we do seem to have more talent this year on offense than last year, it isn't by that much. A little better than awful is still bad. I don't think we'll be the 30th best O again, but I really doubt that we can be any better than the 20th best O.

So right now I'm thinking another 7-9 season, but this time a true 7 win team as opposed to a true 5 win team. I definitely think there's the potential for a playoff run simply because this is football and anything can happen. Maybe Eli and McAdoo get into a real groove with the offense. I'll never count Eli and Coughlin out, but I'm just not expecting the kind of major turnaround from our offense this year that will be needed to make this a playoff team.

I keep thinking that one year, we will have few injuries and/or have injuries where we have decent depth or spread the injuries out over the roster and not on a specific position. And, it seems that every year, we get hurt more than most because of key injuries. So, first, we give up on Will Hill - not an injury but a really good young player on a roster without many who fit that category. Next, David Wilson who probably would havehad a limited but important role in this offense if only catching passes out of the backfield. And, Beckham hasn't even seen any action yet. Thorw in Cooper who would have talen some of the Will Hill edge. It doesn't look like the Karma is right this year although if Schwartz can buck the trend and return soon and play well, maybe we'll get lucky.

In comment 11825990 Reb8thVA said:

Quote:

In comment 11825652 JonC said: Quote: at DE and WR unless some of the youngsters really get it going. Funny How these positions used to be the strength of the team. Not to long ago we were arguing that we had one of the best WR corps in the league.

Reb, yep. I had posted it 18 months ago too, given Tuck and Nicks slowing down, Osi complaining, injuries, etc. This was seen coming, and the draft prospects didn't fully line up in the past two drafts.

Snee not being able to recover from his surgeries and have a comeback year hurt.
The injury to David Wilson hurts because he had SPEED and would have likely done way better in this offense.
And Will Hill's stupidity hurt too cause he would have won the starting job over Brown and flourished.

It is what it is, football. Worst of all may be Beckham's injured hammy as it slowed down his development.

Having said all that, I think the Giants can have a better season if and only if they win early with defense, specials and no turnovers. We need to win the turnover battle in our early games. I don't care if we win by one point each of the first two to three weeks.

After about 3 games the team should begin to gel. I would be so psyched to see even a 2-1 start cause I think we'll continue to get better as the season goes.

If we start like 0-2 or 0-3 it's going to be "here we go again... " and things could get ugly fast.

Just hold the fort the first few weeks so that we're at least in a position to be in the mix if we warm up in the middle of the year.

This offense will be just as bad as last year's. Unfortunately, the defense won't have the same luxury it did in 2013 of playing against a series of back up QBs, either.

This will be a bad year for the Giants.

It happens.

Practically no one has any faith in Eli or this regime anymore. I find that very odd. The ones that do are labeled as Pollyanna or blind homers. But this team has done more good than bad the last ten years. Some of that good was great and historic. Why no faith? Hasn't this org sort of earned some trust?

I haven't seen this much BBi negativity ever. And I've been here since 96...some of the negative is so over the top and unfounded yet it's not isolated to a few apes or mouth breathers. A lot of people are crushing this regime. I just don't get it. Ok maybe I get it a little bit but to the extent I've seen lately? Way over the top.

Maybe the giants do suck and this is the end but I don't think it's crazy to believe things end well in 2014. Coughlin is a good coach and has consistently displayed an ability to Coach up young talent. Eli has shown time and time again that he will help turn unknown Wrs into household names. This regime works. Even the greatest regimes have down time but that doesn't mean they can't turn things around.

But now; after a down year or two everyone is just garbage. Eli is shot. Coughlin and Reese, especially Reese, are clueless. Mosley won't develop. Randle won't develop. Jernigan is terrible and won't shine now that he has a legit shot at playing time. The linebackers can't lead this defense because we never have good linebackers, which in and of itself is false. The young players are unproven so they will suck. That's all I keep hearing but based on recent history things will end up pretty fucking ok.

We didn't have Wrs heading into 2009. Or. 2011. Remember that? How'd that turn out? How'd the defense look in 2010 after the 09 season when everyone was down on the unit? They bounced back with a ten win seasons and won a Super Bowl a year after that. We had no dline in 2008 once Osi went down. How did that turn out? NFC east champs. Eli couldn't win on the road before 2007. Then he did and never stopped winning on the road.

Time and time again the giants have debunked many a myth thanks to a system that fucking works. But now it can't work because the team went 7-9 last year and young unknown players aren't shiny. And Reese can't draft for shit even though the last ten years show otherwise and every gm misses on picks.

I'll take my chances on this team. They have earned my trust.

Won ten games last year and have this fat smirky troll of a coach who is so innovative and special... No way the giants can hang with the eagles mystic and aura.

Watch dallas and the giants win more games than Philly this year. Wouldn't shock me in the least. Dallas offense is terrifying... Loaded with talent. Philly has a great rb and a QB that played brilliantly in his first season. Average Wrs and their d is a wreck. Do it again philly.

That Dallas is terrible. Their offense is filthy. Stop with the stupid romo shit. The guy has consistently led good offenses his entire career despite oline issues and revolving doors at rb and even WR.

The cowboys will score a ton of points this year. They are stacked on offense. Good QB, good Rbs, excellent Wrs and TEs and a nasty young OL. Their defense is a disaster but god help us if that defense plays at a somewhat respectable level.

The only thing that keeps the cowboy offense from scoring well over 420 points is an injury to romo or tons of injuries throughout the roster.

But I see Dallas easily scoring over 400 points

djm said:

Quote:

Practically no one has any faith in Eli or this regime anymore. I find that very odd. The ones that do are labeled as Pollyanna or blind homers. But this team has done more good than bad the last ten years. Some of that good was great and historic. Why no faith? Hasn't this org sort of earned some trust? I haven't seen this much BBi negativity ever. And I've been here since 96...some of the negative is so over the top and unfounded yet it's not isolated to a few apes or mouth breathers. A lot of people are crushing this regime. I just don't get it. Ok maybe I get it a little bit but to the extent I've seen lately? Way over the top. Maybe the giants do suck and this is the end but I don't think it's crazy to believe things end well in 2014. Coughlin is a good coach and has consistently displayed an ability to Coach up young talent. Eli has shown time and time again that he will help turn unknown Wrs into household names. This regime works. Even the greatest regimes have down time but that doesn't mean they can't turn things around. But now; after a down year or two everyone is just garbage. Eli is shot. Coughlin and Reese, especially Reese, are clueless. Mosley won't develop. Randle won't develop. Jernigan is terrible and won't shine now that he has a legit shot at playing time. The linebackers can't lead this defense because we never have good linebackers, which in and of itself is false. The young players are unproven so they will suck. That's all I keep hearing but based on recent history things will end up pretty fucking ok. We didn't have Wrs heading into 2009. Or. 2011. Remember that? How'd that turn out? How'd the defense look in 2010 after the 09 season when everyone was down on the unit? They bounced back with a ten win seasons and won a Super Bowl a year after that. We had no dline in 2008 once Osi went down. How did that turn out? NFC east champs. Eli couldn't win on the road before 2007. Then he did and never stopped winning on the road. Time and time again the giants have debunked many a myth thanks to a system that fucking works. But now it can't work because the team went 7-9 last year and young unknown players aren't shiny. And Reese can't draft for shit even though the last ten years show otherwise and every gm misses on picks. I'll take my chances on this team. They have earned my trust.

djm - exactly! I couldn't have stated it better